If we are part and parcel of Krishna why did Krishna allow us come to this material world?
UR answer= Free will OK
BUT Even from Vikunta why and how did we get trapped by false ego in such a way that it made us think to live independent to that of Krishna? According to Krishna ( the supreme Lord) his world is free of all kinds of modes of material desires? but then HOW can the living entity go wrong and choose to live independently to that of Krishna HOW from vikunta?...IF this is by even free will then it means even Vikunta is not completely free of false desires because we chose to live independent to Krishna from his abode which is described "free of all unwanted ego etc"?
Now the followers of the nirguna-brahman argue that even "Sarguna-brahman" is not free of ego because they can trip and fall due to this element->"desires"
From Logical point of view i feel the followers of "nirguna brahman" is also right
please help shed some light into this i wish to get it clarified
Replies
This is what most say is the reason. But Accualy the fact that we- the Bhaktees, have experimented with our many options & realized the shortcomings of all other paths & now have picked up on the oppertunity to take the shelter of (Vishnu's) grace/ light- & the energies of love, as we serve and discover for our selves Krishna's service, Hi's nature likes & dislikes & Hi's personality.(Free will) it is sayied' is most valuable in such an endeavor, thus hear we are.! I'm assuming the ISKCON instructors are as correct as any others. "Who we are-Who God is, What is nature & What is our eternal constitutional positioning beyween them & with others"? This Is the teaching*
We are inquisative minds that truly want to know?
Hare Krsna
How can a living entity have a desire to be independent of Krsna in Vaikuntha , if everything is spiritual in vaikuntha ?
In material world our experience with material desire is that we obtain material desire from outside of us. Like when we see advertisements etc. But that is not the only source of desire.
Living entity has free will means it can generate or have its own desire, any desire. In spiritual world the pure living entity has full freedom to have any desire. So there no need of an external source in vaikuntha from which a desire to enjoy independent of Krsna is transferred to the soul. The soul itself is the source of such a desire. That is meaning of free will. Soul can desire anything.
This isn't difficult to understand. I can desire to be a living elephant whose body is entirely made up of water element. When someone else reads this such an idea was transferred from writer to the reader. But from where did I get that idea ? nowhere. I just made that up. So the point is - Souls have independence to desire anything.
When there is such a desire manifest by a soul to enjoy independent of Krsna, then immediately the soul is transferred to material world, it is almost simultaneous such that other pure souls in spiritual world are not in anyway in influence of such desire.
Now the followers of the nirguna-brahman argue that even "Saguna-brahman" is not free of ego because they can trip and fall due to this element->"desires"
We have to distinguish within saguna brahma - jiva & Para Brahma
Jiva can be subjected to false ego material desire, material world etc.
Parabrahma is never subjected to false ego, material desire & laws of material world.
This is basic premise of all shastras. Debate on this is a whole discussion itself. But Srila Prabhupad condemns mayavada in practically every chapter of his book, any book, every book.
Hare Krsna
YS Bharat
They were also cersed by pure devotees & Vishnu was reluctant to let there will to go unfulfilled. It is written!
Those who first claim that Lord is cause of all causes, but then teach that jiva fell in material world because of ''free will and desire to enjoy independently'', contradicting themselves.
If Lord is the cause of all causes, then the Lord is the cause of jiva fall in material world.
Out of fear of Him the sun shines, the wind blows and rain showers. All material nature is fully under His control and all what is created, is created for His pleasure.
i have heard or perhaps read in articles by Srila Prabhupada (don't remember) that material world is also a beautiful creation and the jivas in spiritual world sometimes become attracted to the material creation and hence fall. even today who doesn't like full moon or Saturn planet.
i don't think jay Vijay ever had a desire that lord should have worthy opponent to fight.
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Soul will always have desires - whether in the material world or in the spiritual world. THe desire is clubbed as material or spiritual, depending on the nature of desire - whether it is centered around Krsna or centered around self. THe best example of soul desiring is Jay Vijay desiring that their Lord should have worthy opponent to fight with. That is how they came to the material world.
Similarly, if a soul desires to enjoy independent of the lord, then only it comes to the material world. However, seniors have said that once such a desire arises, and the soul comes to material world, does its journey and returns back to the spiritual world, then the soul doesnt come back to the material world again. Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD