Hare Krishna Prabhu Ji,
Dandvat Pranam
I have a little doubt in my brain, please clear my doubt with your blessings.
“As we are the fragmented part of the Lord Shree Krishna so by our intention to enjoy separately from Lord. Lord provide us opportunity to enjoy separately by creating this material world and provide Free will.”
My doubt is that Krishna create this material world for us and provide free will for enjoy but what is the use of this free will if we have to face again the reaction of our karmas, Akarmas and Vikarmas? It means we are not free to use our will. We are forcefully bounded by Nature's Law to face our Karma’s reaction. As from my understanding Krishna provide us Free will with Nature’s Law. We are not completely free. As this material world is to be consider as a Jail So my doubt is that Does Lord Krishna directly push us in a Jail because we were not ready to become his Servant in Golok Vrindavan? But our Shastra’s says that Krishna provide us Free will to enjoy separately. I am very confused.
Please accept my Offering and don’t take as Offending.
Pardeep Kumar
Replies
Hare Krsna
1. Does we disobey our servitor position in the spiritual world ?
A conditioned soul in material world has deviated from the original position of being a servant of Krsna. But the conditioned soul was not necessarily in spiritual world. But this does not mean jiva was always in material world.
The jiva is originally pure. Jiva was in service of Krsna. Jiva is marginal potency which is situated between external and internal potency. Kindly refer to this link for details. It is difficult to give short and complete answer for a deep question. Hope Krsna gives patience and hope the link is found to be meaningful/useful.
2. If Krishna already knew that we will be misuse our free will as a super soul in our heart seated then why He provide us Free will
Jiva inherently posses free will by virtue of being part and parcel of Krsna. There are 3 fundamental potencies of Krsna who is the Supreme personality of godhead - Internal, external and marginal.
Internal potency always serves only the personality of Krsna.
Marginal potency is always situated under either external potency or internal potency.
External potency is completely under the control of Krsna and takes charge of conditioned souls who want to be separate from Krsna.
Free will to be under the either internal or external potency is an intrinsic constitutional nature/property of jiva. This is what makes jiva as marginal potency. Without this jiva is not jiva. Because the role of other two potencies are fixed.
It helps if one can see the complete picture to appreciate the beauty of Krsna's energy.
why He sent to us in this material world to enjoy separately?
Krsna does not send jiva. Jiva goes away from Krsna. Krsna only reciprocates with desires of jiva.
ye yathā māṁ prapadyante
tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham
mama vartmānuvartante
manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ
As all surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā. (BG 4.11)
When a jiva chooses to be independent of Krsna, Krsna simply facilitates. Material world is the only place where jiva can forget Krsna and think himself to be independent of Krsna.
3. Krishna manifests us as a minute part of him because He wants to make lovable relationship with us but what is the end result? - We are suffering and Forget our relationship with our supreme Father
This is not the end result. This is current situation. The end result is - The indescribable sweet union of jiva with the all attractive Krsna. All the words ever manifested in material and spiritual worlds will fail to described the ecstasy experienced by jiva and Krsna reciprocally when jiva re-unites with Krsna. All the suffering endured in material world will fade to an infinitesimal insignificant non-existential speck of particle.
The whole objective of all vedas, entire material world, all acaryas, all demigods, all energies like matter, time, 3 modes of material nature, everything is simply to facilitate the one union of jiva with Krsna.
The prize is KRSNA. Krsna demands everything. But Krsna gives Himself.
Be assured that Krsna wants every jiva back with him more than jiva want to be with Krsna. Krsna is doing everything possible at every moment to bring us closer to him. We just don't see it , yet !
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna Bharat Prabhu Ji,
I am very pleased with your reply. You know I was thinking all Day Long that Krishna sent me in this Material world because Krishna is the Cause of all Causes but you suggest "Krsna does not send jiva. Jiva goes away from Krsna. Krsna only reciprocates with desires of jiva".
and I like the most of your 3rd doubt reply very beautiful Lines "The prize is KRSNA. Krsna demands everything. But Krsna gives Himself."
Now please clear one more doubt with your Mercy: If we want to go BACK TO GODHEAD or Spiritual world, we have to perform hard austerity. I have heard in lectures that there is very rare soul who go back to GODHEAD and Krishna also suggest in BG 7.3:
manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.
There is process mentioned in Scripture If we want to go BACK TO GODHEAD that process is "DEVOTIONAL SERVICE" without devotional service and perform austerity It is impossible to Go.
My question is that when Jiva wants to go away from Krishna, Jiva departures easily by his free will and when wants to go back then Jiva has to perform hard austerity.
Does Jiva follow any hard austerity at the time of Go away from Krishna or there is any process mentioned in Scripture for departure.
If Yes then kindly explain the process and if No "Then Why Jiva has to perform hard austerity at the time of Go Back ..."?
Here In this situation if we relate Father Child example when child wants to go away from Krishna then Father says "OK I have created this material world for you, Go and Enjoy but when Child completely fed up with material world and wants to come back to home then Father says "No, Not so easily, Now you have perform Hard Austerity.
Please clear my Doubts with your Mercy.
Hare Krsna
Without devotional service and perform austerity It is impossible to Go back to godhead.
It is difficult for me to agree that performing austerity is required. If you have any references from Srila Prabhupad books then kindly provide the same. Austerity means like the way Dhruva maharaj did. Of course Dhruva maharaj did get darshan of lord in just six months by performing tapasya. But the process recommended by Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu for us is different from the process recommended by Narada muni to Dhruva.
It is well known that many devotees had to go through challenges like Pandavas etc. But this is not the case for all. For example in case of Maharaj Prahlad, Ambarish they did not have to perform austerities. They were subjected to external atrocities but, they humbly remembered Krsna, and Krsna set everything alright. This is the key.
parama koruna, pahu dui jana
nitai gauracandra
saba avatara-sara siromani
kevala ananda-kanda
The two Lords, Nitai-Gauracandra, are very merciful. They are the essence of all incarnations. The specific significance of these incarnations is that They introduced a process of chanting and dancing that is simply joyful.
By grace of Lord Chaitanya & Srila Prabhupada the transcendental knowledge about Krsna (BG 7.3) is easily available, like never before in the history for many many yugas. So no need to perform severe austerities.
Having said that it is still rare to find a person who has attained perfection in devotional service. Why ? Because people do not accept mercy. In this age of kali yuga all one needs to do is accept mercy of Lord Chaitanya. Have faith in the mercy of Chaitanya and perform the minimal services that are required with utmost sincerity, seriousness and without ulterior motive. Everything else will follow.
This is not to say that there will not be challenges, they will be there, but if we remember Krsna we will be empowered to face the challenges and succeed. Which is the reason why Krsna puts challenges. So that we can depend on Krsna and win.
There is no reason to be disappointed. This is a very wonderful process. KRSNA is on our side. The only question is ARE we on Krsna's side ? If yes then we can go Back to godhead in just one lifetime. No need to perform much austerities.
Hare Krsna
Prabhu Ji,
I am very disappoint with your reply. I am not initiated yet and when I talked to Delhi Iskcon, Chandigarh Iskcon, Vrindavan Iskcon to become temple devotee. They all response with only One statement "We have to perform hard Austerity to make Temple Devotee, Its not very easy to wear Saffron."
SB 3.12.19 by Sril Prabhupada:
tapasaiva paraṁ jyotir
bhagavantam adhokṣajam
sarva-bhūta-guhāvāsam
añjasā vindate pumān
By Penance only can one even approach the Personality of Godhead, who is within the heart of every living entity and at the same time beyond the reach of all senses.
Krishna Book, Chapter 87 by Srila Prabhupada
“Dear Lord,” the personified Vedas continued, “the devotee who wants to elevate himself simply by the process of devotional activities, especially by hearing and chanting, very soon comes out of the clutches of the dualities of material existence. By this simple process of penance and Austerity, the Supersoul within the devotee’s heart is very much pleased and gives the devotee directions so that he may go back home, back to Godhead.”
"Austerity means putting aside our selfish ambitions for a higher purpose" by Radhanath Swami
"When one performs Austerity, one immediately becomes dear to Krishna’s heart." by Loknath Swami
"Human life is meant for Austerity. You are human so do Austerity, whether you like it or not!" by Mahanidhi Swami
Finally from BG 16.1 by Srila Prabhupada
śrī-bhagavān uvāca
abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir
jñāna-yoga-vyavasthitiḥ
dānaṁ damaś ca yajñaś ca
svādhyāyas tapa ārjavam
Translation:
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Fearlessness; purification of one’s existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; Austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor – these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.
I have listened so many times from Iskcon devotees in Lectures also that Austerity is must for Go BACK TO GODHEAD.
I cant believe on your statement Why you wrote Like this--"It is difficult for me to agree that performing austerity is required. If you have any references from Srila Prabhupad books then kindly provide the same".
When Temple devotees perform devotional service from 4:00 AM to till 10:00 PM. Following the Rules and Regulations, Eating Only Prasadam, sacrificing their Sleeping, Eating, Mating and Defending. I have read Once prabhupada Quote: "We have to make our Sleeping Zero, Eating Zero, Mating Zero and Defending Zero, This should be our Aim".
Don't you think all this is Austerity..?
Hare Krsna pr
I am sorry to have caused your disappointment. There is difference in understanding of what you have referred to as austerity and what I have addressed as austerity.
The austerity I have referred to as is like what Dhruva Maharaj -
For the first month Dhruva Mahārāja ate only fruits and berries on every third day. In the second month Dhruva Mahārāja ate only every six days, and for his eatables he took dry grass and leaves. In the third month he drank water only every nine days. In the fourth month Dhruva Mahārāja became a complete master of the breathing exercise, and thus he inhaled air only every twelfth day. By the fifth month, Mahārāja Dhruva, the son of the King, had controlled his breathing so perfectly that he was able to stand on only one leg, just as a column stands, without motion.
What I meant is no need to perform austerities like which was recommended in Satya yuga which was done by Dhruva, hiranyakasipu, Vishwamitra etc.
Let me clarify
SB 3.12.19 was lord Brahma instructing to Rudra. Please be 100% sure we are incapable of performing the tapasya performed by Rudra. (BG 6.33)
BG 16.1 If you read Purport for tapasya clarifies that it refers to rules and regulations for discipline. It is not like what Dhruva Maharaj did in Satya yuga.
I fully agree with the statements made by the Maharajas - disciples of SP.
If you see in the above response given by me - this aspect is included.
In this age of kali yuga all one needs to do is accept mercy of Lord Chaitanya. Have faith in the mercy of Chaitanya and perform the minimal services that are required with utmost sincerity, seriousness and without ulterior motive. Everything else will follow.
Without ulterior motive means - putting aside our selfish ambitions for a higher purpose.
The instances mentioned by you - Temple devotees performing devotional service from 4am, following rules and regulations, eating only prasadam etc are only a matter of practice and are not considered as austerity in the temple environment. The devotees perform this joyfully. Which is the process given by Lord Chaitanya
No need to sacrifice sleeping, eating etc. We only need to make all our activities Krsna conscious. Krsna himself says in - He who is regulated in his habits of eating, sleeping, recreation and work can mitigate all material pains by practicing the yoga system. (BG 6.17)
Hare Krsna
To substantiate further whether severe austerities are required or not kindly listen to this lecture by Srila Prabhupada.
He starts talking about importance of austerities at 22:00 but if you listen further he says something more which is the most important message of Srila Prabhupada and Lord chaintanya.
Kindly note, those who perform austerities are certainly great souls no doubt. But it is not possible for everyone. So for those who can't perform austerities there is an easier alternative which is very direct and simple all by the mercy of Lord Chaitanya. Please listen to the above link till the end.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna,
Please find the answer from Lal Govind Prabhu in this video (1h11 m to 1h16 min approx)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDHL9QN6Xw&feature=youtu.be&am...
- Jai Shri Krishna !! Jai Bhakt Prahlad ki Jai !!
Hare Krishna.,
It seems I created some big confusion. I am sorry prabhu ji if my story had made u fall in more confusion. I think I must avoid giving answers to anyone.
Pls. forget my replies.
I am sorry leave it thanks.
Hare Krishna.
Parul Mata Ji,
I am so sorry your reply is not relevant.
nice point parul mata ji
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