Hare Krishna Devotees
I read somewhere there even daemons (rakshas) are part and parcel of God.
So basically Good and evil both come from God(he pervades all gunas) or I can say they are gunas (attributes) of God.
So the first time when a souls ends up in this material world and performs action either good or bad, is it unto the soul to decide what attribute of god( good/evil) he picks up.
Since there would be no karma attached to his life when first time the soul lands up in this material or illusion world, what dictates his life?
Daemons like ravana ,kamsa and hirankashyapu also were liberated inspire of their bad/evil deeds just because they were krsna/ram conscious(even if it is in anger) at the time of death.
Did they really get moksha and if yes how come when their soul never accepted the ultimate truth of God.
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Hare Krishna Dipin Prabhuji and Alka Mataji! I'm just a fallen soul who have taken shelter under Krishna and His devotees!!!
Yes there is an expansion but that is non-different from Krishna. That is Mathura Krishna, the slayer of demons. Vrindavan Krishna, who is the seat of all beauty and sweetness, reveals Himself only before devotees. This article may be helpful to you----
Radhanath Swami on different expansions of Krishna--
krishnera svarupera haya shad-vidha vilasa
prabhava-vaibhava-rupe dvi-vidha prakasa ( CC AL 2.97)
The personality of Godhead Sri Krishna enjoys himself in six primary expansions. His two manifestations are Prabhava and vaibhava.
Prabhava what we are discussing here are the six vilas forms or the pastime forms that manifested of supreme personality of godhead. I am willing to go with very briefly today and in future class we are going to discuss the six vilas forms and relationship to chaitanya mahaprabhu’s teachings to Shrila Sanatana Goswami in regard to the whole spectrum of the various expansions and incarnations of the supreme personality of godhead. So the Lord primarily expands himself in two categories, namely prabhava and vaibhava. The prabhava forms are fully potent like Sri Krishna. And the vaibhava forms are partially potent. The prabhava forms are manifested in relation to Lord’s potencies and vaibhava forms are manifested in relation with his excellences. We will this in great detail in future class.
His incarnations are of two kinds ‘anksha shaktyaveshrupevividhavtar balya paugand dharmadvetaprakar. His incarnations are of two kinds namely partial and empowered. He appears in two ages, childhood and boyhood.
Purport by Shrila Prabhupada :
The Vilas form are six in number, incarnations are of two varieties namely shaktyavesha and anshavesha . shakyavesha generally means a jivatma, there is specially empowered by the lord to fulfill specific mission in material world but also sometimes the Lord himself can also appear within shaktyavesha. It means he is empowered for specific purpose. And anshavesha is when the lord partially appears, partial expansion of himself in this world. His incarnations also come within the category parabhava and vaibhava manifestations. Childhood and boyhood are two special features of the personality of the godhead Sri Krishna. It is permanent feature is his eternal form as an in youth. The original personality of godhead Sri Krishna is always worshiped in his eternal form.
Ishwara swarupa Krisshna svayamavatari , rhida kari echai rupe vishwa bhari
The personality of godhead Sri Krishna is eternally is the primeval lord , the source of all incarnations. He expands himself in the six categories a form to establish supremacy throughout the universe.
Ei chaya rupe haya ananta vividha, ananta rupe ekrup nahi kichu bheda
In the six kinds of forms, there are innumerable varieties. Although they are many, they are all one. There is no difference between them.
Purport by Shrila Prabhupada :
The personality of godhead manifest himself in six different features. One prabhava and two vaibhava, three empowered incarnations, four partial incarnations, five childhood and six boyhood. The personality of godhead Sri Krishna whose permanent feature is enjys his transcendental proclivities by performing pastimes in these six forms. In these six features, there are unlimited divisions of the personality of godhead’ forms. Jivas are living being are differentiated parts and parcels of the Lord. They are all diversities of one without a second the supreme personality of godhead. This is the very very wonderful deep science of the various ways of the supreme personality of godhead manifested within this material world. And the results are also very subtle understanding which brings about the great enlightenment and appreciation to the lords to his various manifestations in this world. We have superficial understanding of how the lord has appeared in so many different ways . How he has appeared is Kurma as Matsya as Varaha as Narsimha as Vamandev , Parshuram, Sri Ramchandra, how he appearedas Balamji, as Buddha and how he will appear as Kalki. He also appeared as Mihini murti, Dattatraya, Hansa , Nar narayana , Kapila Dev. Now herein the pastimes, these are all vilas expansions of the lord, they appear for performing divine pastimes. We also hear incarnations such as Vyas Dev literary incarnations.
Now when Krishna appears , one of the great benedictions is not so much , it is so much but besides his ‘paritranay sadhunam vinashayacha dushkrutinam’ , he appears to reestablish principles of religion , to protect the devotees and to annihilate he miscreants. Besides this Krishna explains in Gita , ‘janma karma cha me divyam yevam yo vetti tatvatah, tyakva deham punar janmah naiti mameti so arjunah’ one who understands the nature of my appearance and activities when I come into this material world, you never takes birth again. So why the great Acharyas such as Krishan das Kaviraj Goswami, why sri chaitanya Mahaprabhu spent a good portion of time describing his prabhava, vaibhava, swayam rupa, ekatma, vilas avesh rupa his various categories of reincarnations of godhead. And each of these various ‘avatars’ fits in a particular category for particular reason. For so many supports reasons , the more we understand this , the more we understand the transcendental nature of Krishna’s appearance and activities, the more we can really appreciate how they are all related to Krishna. The more we can understand how Krishna is performing such wonderful work. This is science material science. Originally people like Isaac Newton, Galileo they were actually very religious people , spiritual minded. And their idea was they wanted to for the glorification of god, for the world to show how great is god. Within the Christian’s scriptures says God is great. And essentially Christian and Jew scriptures gods greatness is namely in his power to create, is little said about his incarnation , is little said about his activities in the spiritual world. But his greatness basically understood in two ways in the western scriptures his creative potency and his mercy, his kindness as well as his wrath which another side of his kindness.
So these great people they were thinking that Krishna is te God is great by his creative potency so the more we can understand in detail how he is creating ,the more we understand how great he is and the more we appreciate him. Because superficially we say yes God is creative very good but the more you go into the deepness and the technicalities of how this creation is working the we struck with wondering astonishment how great God really is. Just like if you see a leaf and if you go this is a nice leaf , God is created it , it is green ,its shining very nice. But when we look in microscope and you see how the different atoms molecules and electrons and neutrons and the further synthesis everything is taken place for its production, you thinking my god, this is millions of times more than I thought a leaf forest, Krishna is really great. The more you understands the details of god’s creation, the more you realize how great really he is. And this is the original what science was formed. To further glorify god by seeing how infinitely great he is. There is a work ‘anu’, the word ‘anu’ literally means atomic in size but its less than atomic in size. In the Vedas , it is described when the sunshine comes through the window, the little tiny specs you see , they are called ‘anu’. But the ‘anu’ also means the smallest particle. There is a one philosopher a sankhya philosopher who this atheistic Kapila Dev , he explained that the basic formula a rock creation is the ‘paramanu’. And from this smallest material element everything has been created within the world. So he is explaining that everything has a material cause. But if you with the scientist have found their conception for long time was the ‘anu’ was an atom , there was small first the molecule was considered the smallest particle, then they discovered the atom, then they discovered the electron then the neutron and if they go into the electron and neutron ,they will find even smaller things. In this material world there is always something smaller which is the basis of what is bigger , this is how god is created.
‘Anato aniyan mahato aniyan’ He is smaller than the smallest and he is greater than the greatest. SO the more we understands the details of this creation , the more we are struck with wonder, ready to surrender our lives with greater and greater appreciation to Krishna. This is so similar when the lord himself incarnates. The more we categorically understand how he incarnate ,why he incarnates, what various incarnations are manifesting , how they are manifesting, what category they are manifesting. It gives us such a deeper understanding of Krishna’s glory when he appears in this world. That we realize more and more and more, the supreme opulence of Sri Krishna. So for this reason we will discuss in much greater depth ,the various manifestations categorically how the lord appears in this world. And here Krishna Das Kaviraj Goswami is explaining the six basic vilas rupas or manifestations of the lord which he takes for the sake of pastimes prabhava or he manifests his potencies, vaibhava we manifests his excellence, shaktyavesha or he empowers jivatmas for the specific purposes, anshavesha or he himself partially expands for specific purposes , childhood and boyhood … this is very interesting because it is described here Krishna originally is NityaKrishore, he is always sixteen year old. Kishor means about fifteen sixteen year old. That is his eternal rupa in the spiritual world . When he appears in this material world, he appears in this childhood and boyhood , they are different categories because they are of different form in Krishna or they are fully manifested with all the transcendental potencies of Krishna’s still he is incarnating the different form… childhood and boyhood.
Chit shakti swarup shakti antaranga naam
Tahar vaibhava anant vaikuntha dhari dham
The chit shakti which is also called swarup shakti or antaranga shakti displays various manifestations is sustained in kingdom of god and his paraphelnia. Chit shakti means the yoga maya potency. It is also called swarupa shakti or anataranga shakti. It is the internal energy of the lord. It is this energy which sustains the kingdom of god and all of his paraphelnia .
Maya shakti bahiranga jagadat karan,
Tahar vaibhava ananta bhramhander kan
The external energy called maya shakti is the cause of innumerable universes with various potencies.
Jivashakti tatasthakya nahi ara anta
Mukhya tina shakti vividha anta
The marginal potency which is between this two consists of numberless living beings. These are three principal energies which have unlimited categories and subdivisions.
Purport by Shrila Prbhupad,
The internal potency of the lord which is called chit shakti or antaranga shakti exhibits varigatedness the transcendental vaikuntha cosmos. Besides ourselves there are unlimited numbers liberated living beings who associates with the personality of godhead in his innumerable features. In the material cosmos displays the external energy in which conditioned living beings are provided all liberty to go back to the personality of godhead after leaving the material ____18:14___. The shetashwetar Upanishad informs us
--- sloka ---
The supreme lord is one without his second, he has nothing to do with the personal, the more he have material senses, no is equal to or greater than him, he has unlimited variegated potencies of different names which exist within him as autonomous attributes and provide him full knowledge, power and pastimes. So the jivatma is the tathastha shakti which means the marginal potency which is residing between the chit shakti and the maya shakti and a jivatma being part and parcel of supreme lord as all the qualities of Krishna , not all the qualities but 73% of the qualities Krishna in minute proportion and in this way the jivatma always has the swarat to choice to either be the surrendered servant of maya shakti or chit shakti. And the purpose of al these various incarnations Kaviraj is explaining , is to give the jivatma who misused his independence, the understanding and the opportunity where which he can again come on the chit shakti the daivi shakti of the lord. Now of the prabhava forms and vaibhava forms, they each have their own vaikuntha planet in the spiritual sky. There are temporary forms and eternal forms. Temporary some of the expansions or incarnations of the lord, they simply manifest in this world for a temporary purpose, for a temporary time. But most of the incarnations of this world, they are eternal forms of godhead. And each one of these avatars in his original form or original existence has his own vaikuntha planet in the paravyoma or spiritual sky and those vaikuntha forms which appear in this material world come to the prayers of the demigods to kshirodakshai Vishnu at shweta dvip that transcendental abode of within this material universe.
So in this way they are incarnations coming down to the earth but each one as I say has his own vaikuntha planet and one who serves and surrenders with love and remembrance of that particular avatar, it is not that everyone goes to the same place ,they will go to that particular manifestation of godhead in the eternal spiritual world. It is not that if you worship Lord Narsimha dev as ‘estadev’ then you will go back to Krishna. And if you worship Ram then you go back to Krishna. Although it the same supreme divine personality of godhead , he is manifesting himself in his various prabhava-vaibhava forms in the vaikunthas as well and therefore this just like it is explained that Ayodhya is a spiritual planet in vaikuntha. Similarly Vaman Dev, Varah Dev they all have their eternal vaikuntha planets. But they are in their form as four armed Narayan but is that particular personality. And in this way Krishna Das Goswami is explaining, the opportunity the jiva shakti has been given by these various categories avatars coming to this world to traps their minds to backhome to god head.
Is there any questions !
---Question is not audible ---
Maharaj Answers : That explains prabhava manifestation are also of two temporary & eternal. The Mohini Haunsa & Shukla forms are manifested only temporarily in terms of particular age. The others, they are eternally manifested they just come to this material world temporarily. They are eternally manifested in vaikuntha, they come down, but they manifest only temporarily in this world. They do not have a particular planet in vaikuntha & example is Mohini murti. But devotee is going to be a pure devotee of mohini (maharaj laughs), she was none other than Vishnu but she is appeared for a very special purpose according to time and circumstances to show the glory of lord shiva ultimately But its not that the beautiful form of Mohini Murti which is really the manifestation of the ultimate beauty of a woman. And really lord shiva is not the he worship mohini murti but he bewildered by Mohini Murti. Services are form according to here prabhupad explains its not only eternal form of vaikuntha but it’s a special form of Krishna, is temporary takes this form, shows the glory of lord shiva then the form is merges back into the Kshirodakshi Vishnu. Therefore, just manifesting to Kshirodakshai Vishnu incarnates its mohini and then she goes back into Kshirodakshai Vishnu. But other avataras such as Ram, Narsimha , they are residing eternally in vaikuntha, they manifest through Kshirodakshai Vishnu but afterward they merges back into the original form in the spiritual world.
(Devotee asks question
Maharaj Answers : Yes, its vaikuntha to come here. Because simultaneously each of the vaikuntha form is manifesting innumerable universes that is one universe at a time.
(Devotee asks question
Maharaj answers
Specifically speaking of Krishna. Narsimha Dev ,we don’t read about balya –paugnada Lila ( Mah laughs )
Bramha is very special incarnation that is why Ram is specially is son, is higher in rasa & in any other avatar other than Krishna because he did accept a form as a child he was worship in vatsalya rasa.
Question : Sometimes like in the Bhagvatam , we have heard that Krishna displays childhood pastimes only in this material world not in the spiritual world ?
Maharaj Answers:
According to here it describes the Krishna’s original eternal form in the spiritual world is Ishwara. He could but that its an expansion of that original. But there is a certain sweetness that Krishna reveals when he comes down to this material world which is very unique, is taking birth, his baby pastimes.
Question :
Maharaj Answers :
So long as the mahatatva and the material prakruti is existing when the time when karanodakshai Vishnu force everything back into his body ,there are no longer manifested .but there is a manifested prakruti, each of the avataras are constantly performing Lilas.
Not only lila avatar is not that they go from one universe through another. Like each one of their pastimes is constantly going on somewhere.
Just like Kaviraj Goswami explains that when Krishna is stealing butter ,bound by the ropes, then when he pulls though the Arjuna trees, the nalakubera & managriva come out, As soon as thats done, whats the next lila here, as soon as thats done, then all cowered men and cowered woman they see the Arjuna trees falling & they start making of protective mantras HARE KRISHNA, but what are doing that in another universe is pulling down Arjuna trees. Then everybody gets together all afraid and they start chanting their mantras for the further protection of Krishna & in another universe he is pulling another Arjuna trees. So each of the pastimes is always going on somewhere in material creation. So not the Krishna goes to 125 years & he moves to the next universe, then he goes to the 125 years, next universe. He is existing simultaneously so many places in every pastimes somewhere taking place in this material existence.
Question :
Maharaj Answers :
“Govindam adi purusam tamham bhajami”govindam- Krishna,
As it is explained here the original Krishna is kishore Krishna who is upon his flute as a eternal ‘navayovanam cha’ as an eternal youth. That is the original form of godhead.
Question : (not audible)
Maharaj Answers :
There are so many universes that in some universe each past time of each incarnation is taking place. There are so many innumerable universes. In this particular universe, it is only the Holy name that is having is lila right ! in this earth planet, within this universe, But in another universe Shri Krishna Mahaprabhu just left this universe 500 years ago but he is always manifested each one of his lila somewhere. And each universe we have to understand once in every day of brahma, Krishna appears. Once in a day of Brahma shri chaitanya Mahaprabhu appears. So you can imagine how many universes there must be, if in each universe only once in a day Brahma, Krishna appears and yet is appearing in so many universes simultaneously, performing his different pastimes. This gives us some understanding of the greatness of god in the form of this creation. It does itself innumerable universes that means its beyond millions, its beyond trillions, its beyond quadrillions, the innumerable universes emanating from the body of mahavishnu. Countless universes …
And this one little universe that we were seated in, even the greatest scientists and astrogists, they cannot find its length, breath and depth. Aa~~ when we understand this, we realize what a ‘jiva’ really is, such an insignificant living entity and yet we are thinking I am great …God is great… you are not great ( mah smiles )
When Bhaktipad once approached prabhupad and said prabhupad, I think I am the most fallen and prabhupad said you are the most anything ,you are simply insignificant ( Mah laughs ). When we understand that, then we become Krishna conscious. People may think this will create an inferiority complex to become so insignificant.It will that all you think. If you understand your insignificance relationship to the greatness of god than it creates transcendental consciousness ,not inferiority. Then you put all your pride and all your love and all your trust not in you and more on the all great to Krishna. This is the transcendental superiority complex to stand how great is Krishna. To the degree you think you are great to that degree you cannot appreciate Krishna’s greatness. To the degree realize you are insignificant to that degree Krishna will reveal to you his eternal unlimited greatness. We are ‘anu’ ,he is ‘vibhu’ great unlimited infinite.
Question:
Mah answers
‘Jivera swarupa hoy Krishner nitya das ‘ that is our eternal constitutional position
to be in that state you are saying,to be a part of Krishna’s divine lila, always sharing his loving exchange, always watching his beautiful pastimes, that is our nature. When our heart is purified “adoshraddha tatha sadhu sangutha bhajana kriya” Gradually through the process of purification coming to the process of bhakti, we come to that platform of ‘prembhakta’. ‘premabhakti’ means when you understand your eternal constitutional relationship with Krishna in spiritual world and you are engaged in that divine service.
Question:
Each bramhanda has different planetary systems like in this ‘bramhanda’ the bramha has fore heads and like in other bramhanda also there are many planets or only fourteen planets.? (Mah laughs after hearing the question )
Maharaj Answers : You have to research that specific question.
The various universes are of different sizes and according to the heads of Bramha that’s how many directions there are. There are universes with millions of directions now because of our perception is only four direction is very impossible for us to try to comprehend this, what to speak of how one person can millions of heads on one body. It sounds like be a very uncomfortable situation.
But actually that’s because of our relative perspective, all we know is one head but when is only four directions one head is a lot. But if is millions of directions, millions of heads are no more to have one head would be completely a freak and no more in such a universe. ( Mah laughs )
So for bramha …anyway… .So what I am saying is you cannot understand his with a relative understanding but we can appreciate this inconceivable greatness of this cosmic manifestation. Come across an explanation of Bramha is borned from garbodakshai Vishnu another universes. Although we know that they have, it describes that they do but exactly how and what the stem of lotuses from that garbodakshai Vishnu , we will have to research. I tried to answer your very very vital ,essential Krishna conscious questions.
Question:
Jivatma attains spiritual world how does he has a relation because spiritual world is so vast so big how he has direct relationship with Krishna ?
Maharaj Answers :
Because Krishna is more vast and more big. He is ‘ahato aniyan mahato mahiyan’
He is smaller than the smallest and the greater than the greatest ,this the greatest of the god. That is parattma, he is personally seated beside each and every jivatma everywhere. In this way he is “Anatho aniyan” smaller than the smallest and ready to have intimate personal loving relationship with only you. He already does but you are not willing to accept it.. Krishna has a personal intimate loving relationship one and one with every jivatma in this world. When I willing to accept it ,when I willing to a reciprocate. But to busy trying to fulfill our own selfish ambitions. This is Krishna’s glory.
Prabhuji all humble obeisance unto your lotus feet which are spiritual by the way.
Prabhuji ( Krishna's Lover ) you are indeed krishna's lover. I am mesmerized.
I never thought/imagined/heard about Lord krsna performing lila in different universes simultaneously.
It was Krishna who killed Kamsa, not His expansion. But Kamsa could never understand that He is the Supreme personality of Godhead for his demoniac attributes. He mistook Him for a mere boy.Or even if he could understand, he couldn't achieve devotion unto Him.
jai shri govinda
Krishna's lover ji pranam to you.
I am not 100% sure but....
somehow I recollect some vague memories of bhagvatam class taken long back where one of prabhuji mentioned that it was vasudev(an expansion) who killed kamsa and not krsna the absolute form because kamsa was not worth it that he would be killed by supreme personality himself.
prabhuji's/mataji's
Please clarify my doubts i don't want to be in wrong knowledge.
Hare Krishna, mataji!!! It is not actually, 'daemons (rakshas) are part and parcel of God'. The soul is a part and parcel of god, hence is qualitatively as good as god. Lord is beyond three gunas(sattva, rajah, tamah). So He is called Trigunatita or beyond three gunas as these gunas belong to material nature,prakriti,not purush.( Material nature consists of three modes — goodness, passion and ignorance. When the eternal living entity comes in contact with nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, he becomes conditioned by these modes.-Bhagavad Gita 14.5).When the soul wants to enjoy independent of Krishna, he is enclosed into a material body and is thrown into the dark pit of this material world where he(soul) identifies himself with the material body and becomes a mere puppet of the the gunas.The soul is always good, being a part and parcel of Krishna. But due to identification with body, the duality between good and bad comes. Basically, good and bad are no two separate entities, bad means lack of goodness. Soul is always eternally good.
In Gita, Krishna, says,
mamaivāḿśo jīva-loke
jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
SYNONYMS
mama — My; eva — certainly; aḿśaḥ — fragmental particle; jīva-loke — in the world of conditional life; jīva-bhūtaḥ — the conditioned living entity; sanātanaḥ — eternal; manaḥ — with the mind; ṣaṣṭhāni — the six; indriyāṇi — senses; prakṛti — inmaterial nature; sthāni — situated; karṣati — is struggling hard.
TRANSLATION
The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.
PURPORT
The atma or immortal soul within all jivas or embodied beings constitutes an eternal portion of Lord Krishna and thus is also eternal and as good as Him. Yet because the jiva is inextricably emeshed in material existence from time immemorial it is enslaved by the nescience of its ownkarma or reactions to actions and revolves incessantly in samsara the perpetrual cycle of birth and death. Precisely based on this karma a jiva is forced to accept a suitable body such as a demigod, human, animal etc., attracting with it five senses and a mind exactly appropriate to maximising the chances of survival for such a jiva. But when the jiva through association of the Vaisnava spiritual master becomes enlightened from hearing his unequivocal instructions and surrenders fully unto the Supreme Lord Krishna as one's only refuge then Lord Krishna Himself releases thejiva from the bondage of samsara and the jiva becomes situated in atma-tattva or soul realisation. Other than taking exclusive shelter of Lord Krishna or any of His authorised incarnations as revealed in Vedic sciptures it is impossible for the jiva which is very much handicapped in terms of intelligence and potency to achieve moksa or liberation. This is due to the heavy burden of unresolved karma attached to the jiva that they must carry with them life after life. But all actions performed for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord have no karma attached to them. This is the difference.-Ramanujacharya.
In case of demons, yes, they attained moksha because some way or other they were always thinking of Narayan or Krishna or Vishnu, but for their senses being contaminted by the gunas of material nature, they could never achieve devotion. They used to consider themselves to be God, even greater than Narayan. The absolute truth can be realised only through devotion and yoga.!!!
Hare Krsna Alkaji and Krishna's lover, please accept my obeisances,
More than what i wanted to say has been covered by Krishna's lover. So if you feel there is any repetition you should take it in good spirit because sometimes repetition is the only way of reinforcing what is good.
Krsna says that the modes of material nature are created by him and rest within him, yet he is not within them. It's like all the created manifestation rests in the sky and yet the sky is the sky without the material manifestation. That is where the word nirguna comes in like the word trigunatita.
As for the soul no one ascertain the exact time and place when it first entered the creation except for Lord the creator. The word we choose to describe it is "eternal".
Ravana, Kamsa and Hiranyakasipu where all envious of the Lord so he was never manifest to them as he is. For all their anger they had to ultimately face the wrath of the Lord.
Hare krishna Dipinji
So what you are saying is when Lord Krishna killed Kamsa , lord himself was not present in front of him.
Was it Lord Krishna's expansion/another form and not the absolute form when he was killing Kamsa.