Hare Krishna Prabhuji and Mataji,
Dhandavat Pranam
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
My question was why Lord Ram has a different Dham (Saket Dham). The devotees of Lord Ram go to Saket and not Vaikuntha where all other vishnu avatars reside.
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Hare Krishna Prabhuji,
Dandavat Pranam
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada
What exactly is liberation that a person in devotional service to Lord Krishna doesn't want? A Krishna Consious person doesnt want mukti or moksha, he or she just want to stay in performing various activities in devotional service to Krishna. So this means that people who are not Krishna consious but are performing karma kanda in daily routine wants mukti or moksha but travelling to Teerth or dham and performing pious activities. But where does he actually go after mukti? Is he elevated to bramhajyoti? Does he get a spiritual body? Does he ever come back again on this material realm?
Hare Krsna
But where does he actually go?
anta-kāle ca mām eva
smaran muktvā kalevaram
yaḥ prayāti sa mad-bhāvaṁ
yāti nāsty atra saṁśayaḥ
And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body remembering Me alone at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.(BG 8.5)
yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ
tyajaty ante kalevaram
taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya
sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ
Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of Kuntī, that state he will attain without fail.(BG 8.6)
I think the focus for practicing devotees should be on purifying & engaging in Krsna's service. As I said, if our consciousness is pure & we are eager to serve Krsna, Sri Krsna will not spare a moment in taking us Back to Godhead. Gajendra is the best example
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna Prabhuji
Dandavat Pranam
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Thank you once again for answering my questions.
When it comes to Jagannath rath yatra, its been said that if a soul watches Krishna on the Rath during rath yatra gets liberated and will not come down on this very earth and wont be caught in the cycle of birth and death. So if Jagannath promises to liberate a sinful soul only by watching Krishna on rath, why not then a devotee who is always in service of Krishna. Why does he has to come down to earth to complete his bhakti?
Hare Krsna
Why does he has to come down to earth to complete his bhakti?
A living being who is 100% Krsna conscious will certainly attain Spiritual world. They are free from all material entanglements and never have to take material birth again in this material world. Sri Krsna promises this in BG
ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino ’rjuna
mām upetya tu kaunteya punar janma na vidyate
From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again. BG 8.16
So one who is 100% Krsna conscious will certainly attain Spiritual abode and once spiritual abode is attained, there is no returning back to material world.
But if someone is not 100% Krsna conscious , let's say only 95%, then such a person still has 5% contamination in their consciousness and they need to still purify themselves. I am using % just to make the point that consciousness is not in a binary state of 1 or 0, but spiritual practice is a journey from 0 to 1 with a lot of decimal numbers in between. Even Ajamila was only saved from yamadutas at time of his death, after yamadutas went away he voluntarily practiced intense bhakti for few years on earth in material body and only after that he attained vaikuntha.
Why not then a devotee who is always in service of Krishna.
A devotee whose consciousness is fully absorbed in Krsna's service selflessly and continuously will certainly attain Krsna's eternal service. Krsna is more eager to take conditioned souls back to godhead than us. But such souls are extremely rare
bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ
After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare. BG 7.19
Jagannath promises to liberate a sinful soul only by watching Krishna on rath
Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would dance in ecstasy, with tears pouring from His eyes by seeing Lord Jagannath. Lord Chaitanya would cry out of pain when he could not see Jagannath. That is truly seeing Jagannath.
For most people that is not the case. Yes, seeing Jagannath certainly is liberating, but people who see Jagannath also may not stay in that state for long. They again get entangled in material energy after rath yatra is over.
There are NO Shortcuts in Bhakti. BHAKTI IS THE SHORTEST CUT BACK TO GODHEAD.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna prabhuji
Dandawat pranam
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Thank you for a detailed description.
So does the same rule is applicable for the one who worships the other swaroops of Krishna such as Jagannath, Vitthala, guruvayoor.
Who are the fortunate souls who get the remembrance of Krishna at the time of death?
And who are those fortunate souls who are unable to remember Krishna but Krishna appears at the time of death?
Hare Krsna
So is same applicable for the one who worships the other swaroops of Krishna such as Jagannath, Vitthala, guruvayoor ?
Yes, same is applicable for all forms of Sri Krsna mentioned by you. Same is applicable for all avatar of Sri Vishnu like Sri Narasimha, Sri Vamana, Sri Varaha, Sri Rama etc.
Who are the fortunate souls who get the remembrance of Krishna at the time of death?
abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā
paramaṁ puruṣaṁ divyaṁy yāti pārthānucintayan
He who meditates on Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Pārtha, is sure to reach Me. (BG 8.8)
Those who have intensely, continuously & selflessly been absorbed in devotional service to Sri Krsna will be able to remember Krsna at time of death. Human life is an opportunity to practice Krsna's remembrance. Death is like ultimate test. Those who have practiced & prepared well for test are likely to pass test.
And who are those souls who are unable to remember Krishna but Krishna appears at the time of death?
Those embodied living entities that are absorbed in material affairs, for them Krsna appears as death. Death is also an aspect of Sri Krsna. They will get their next material body depending on their consciousness at time of death.
And who are those fortunate souls who may be unable to remember Krishna but Krishna personally appears at the time of death?
śrī-bhagavān uvāca
ahaṁ bhakta-parādhīno hy asvatantra iva dvija
sādhubhir grasta-hṛdayo bhaktair bhakta-jana-priyaḥ
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said to the brāhmaṇa: I am completely under the control of My devotees. Indeed, I am not at all independent. Because My devotees are completely devoid of material desires, I sit only within the cores of their hearts. What to speak of My devotee, even those who are devotees of My devotee are very dear to Me. ( SB 9.4.63)
Those living entities that have sufficiently pleased a dear devotee of Sri Krsna, without envy, they because of their attachment to Krsna's pure devotee are personally very dear Sri Krsna.
Especially those living beings that assist Krsna's empowered devotee who out of compassion is selflessly & fully engaged in distributing Krsna consciousness to ignorant living beings in this world, those assistants may be fortunate of Krsna's appearance at their death.
There are many great souls who dedicated their lives to assist empowered acaryas like Sri Ramanajuacarya, Sri Madhwacarya, Srila Prabhupada etc. People may not even know their names, but Sri Krsna never forgets such assistants.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna Prabhuji,
Dandavat Pranam
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada
Thank you for enlighting me on this topic.
Golok Dham (Krishna Loka) is the highest loka as per bhagavatam, so reaching Goloka Dham must be difficult. And what happens to Das of Krishna who are not able to reach Goloka Dham after performing devotional service to Krishna. Do they end up in Vaikuntha but under whose planets? and if not then do they get birth in Material planet to complete his Krishna bhakti?
And what happens to other bhaktas who are not able to complete their bhakti for e.g Ram devotee.
How to know if someone has completed his bhakti in this janam only.
Hare Krsna
so reaching Goloka Dham must be difficult
It is the most difficult thing that is possible.
Do they end up in Vaikuntha but under whose planets?
No, a living being who is in material world, if unable to attain spiritual perfection cannot attain any Vaikuntha planet in general. To be transferred from material world to spiritual world one has to be 100% Krsna conscious. If a living being attains spiritual perfection before death, only then they can enter the spiritual world or Vaikuntha.
The planet to which, a living entity is transferred in the Vaikuntha realm after spiritual perfection, depends on the particular rasa, bhava, mood etc in which the living entity has practiced bhakti or devotional service. If a devotee cultivates bhakti as a friend of Krsna, then they may become a gopala boy in Goloka Vrindavana. But if the same living entity is unable to become 100% Krsna conscious, then they will not be able to enter Goloka or any other Vaikuntha planet. There is no second or alternate destination within spiritual realm for those who are not 100% Krsna conscious.
And what happens to Das of Krishna who are not able to reach Goloka Dham after performing devotional service to Krishna. And what happens to other bhaktas who are not able to complete their bhakti for e.g Ram devotee.
They will likely again take birth in material world again, till they become 100% Krsna conscious. Arjuna asks this exact question to Sri Krsna in Bhagavad Gita and Sri Krsna answers as below.
arjuna uvāca
ayatiḥ śraddhayopeto
yogāc calita-mānasaḥ
aprāpya yoga-saṁsiddhiṁ
kāṁ gatiṁ kṛṣṇa gacchati
Arjuna said: O Kṛṣṇa, what is the destination of the unsuccessful transcendentalist, who in the beginning takes to the process of self-realization with faith but who later desists due to worldly-mindedness and thus does not attain perfection in mysticism? BG (6.37)
prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān
uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ
śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe
yoga-bhraṣṭo ’bhijāyate
Translation : The unsuccessful yogī, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people, or into a family of rich aristocracy.
Purport: The yogī who falls after a short period of practice goes to the higher planets, where pious living entities are allowed to enter. After prolonged life there, one is sent back again to this planet, to take birth in the family of a righteous brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava or of aristocratic merchants.BG (6.41)
atha vā yoginām eva
kule bhavati dhīmatām
etad dhi durlabha-taraṁ
loke janma yad īdṛśam
Or [if unsuccessful after long practice of yoga] he takes his birth in a family of transcendentalists who are surely great in wisdom. Certainly, such a birth is rare in this world. BG (6.42)
How to know if someone has completed his bhakti in this janam only.
bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir
anyatra caiṣa trika eka-kālaḥ
prapadyamānasya yathāśnataḥ syus
tuṣṭiḥ puṣṭiḥ kṣud-apāyo ’nu-ghāsam
Devotion, direct experience of the Supreme Lord, and detachment from other things — these three occur simultaneously for one who has taken shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in the same way that pleasure, nourishment and relief from hunger come simultaneously and increasingly, with each bite, for a person engaged in eating.(SB 11.2.42)
These are the 3 symptoms
1. a person will always be absorbed in bhakti or devotional service to Sri Krsna
2. a person will expereince the presence of Sri Krsna
3. a person will be completely detached and indifferent to all material dualities
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
Why Lord Ram has a different Dham (Saket Dham)
Each personal form of Sri Krsna has a different planet in the Vaikuntha realm.
goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya
devi maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu
te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitāś ca yena
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
Lowest of all is located Devī-dhāma [mundane world], next above it is Maheśa-dhāma [abode of Maheśa]; above Maheśa-dhāma is placed Hari-dhāma [abode of Hari] and above them all is located Kṛṣṇa's own realm named Goloka. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who has allotted their respective authorities to the rulers of those graded realms.( Brahma Samhita 5.43)
As stated in the above shloka there are different realms -
Devi dham is the abode of Durga devi (Material world). It gets destroyed,
Mahesha Dham is abode of Sada Shiva. This realm is not destroyed. It is situated between Material realm & Spiritual realm.
Hari Dhama is spiritual realm or Vaikuntha realm. Within this realm, each form (vigraha) of Krsna has their own planet. Sri Narasimha, Sri Varaha, Sri Matsya, Sri Kurma, Sri Vamana etc all have their respective separate planets. All these are situated within the vaikuntha realm itself. The respective devotees of each Vigraha eternally worship the lord in their respective rasa. Example in Vaikuntha Planet of Sri Narasimha, Prahlad Maharaj situated in Shanta rasa worships Narasimha deva eternally.
Similarly Lord Sri Rama has His Saket (Ayodhya) Dham within Vaikuntha realm. There Anjaneya, Lakshman, Sita devi etc worship Sri Rama.
Goloka Dham: Within the Vakuntha realm , the highest is Krsnaloka. Within Krsna loka, there are Dwarka, Puri, Mathura & Vrindavana. Below picture shows Goloka & different Vaikuntha planets in Vaikuntha realm.
The reason why they have different planets issimply to facilitate their unique loving relationship. Each devotee has a unique relationship with Krsna, a unique way in which they worship & interact with Krsna. The separate planet facilitates that mood, relationship & service to the devotees & lord.
Example - Prahlada Maharaj has a mood of being dependent on Sri Krsna which is devotion being in a relatively passive disposition. Sri Anjaneya has a mood of active service to Lord Rama. So the abode facilitates such service, interaction etc.
Hare Krsna