In Spiritual world we consider Jiva & Krishna to be Eternal at same time Krishna is source of all,
Q1) if Krishna & Balraam are source/cause of all Jivas manifestation, creation or expansion (whatever we called) of all Jivas then must be clear that Jivas are not exist before, then how they are eternal?
Q2) if however we consider jivas and krishna to eternal then what is meaning of krishna as source of all or eternal among or all eternal or meaning of expansion, manifestation etc?
Similar phase is found in Jaiva Dharma
Vrajanatha: You said earlier that the cit world is eternal, and so are the jivas. If this is true, how can an eternal entity possibly be created, manifested or produced? If it is created at some point of time, it must have been non-existent before that, so how can we accept that it is eternal?
http://www.bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/15.html
Please clarify this doubt?
Hare Krishna
Replies
It was you who introduced Jaiva Dharma into the discussion, which Rajasekhara felt was inappropriate, our request is simple, stick to Prabhupadas books only, no need to raise issues based on Jaiva Dharma. The eternity of the Jiva was nicely explained by Rajasekhara and a very simple example in accordance with the original qrestion. Anyway, you have now blown it out of proportion with your introduction of Jaiva Dharma, which is exactly what Rajasekhara said would happen. Better to drop this issue and leave it to Rankinji to moderate, I will not be responding till further notice from the moderator in whom I have full faith, regards, Samrat
Dearest Samrat Prabhu....
PAMHO....All glories to srila prabhupada and his army of vaishnavas....I throw myself at the lotus feet of all vaishnavas....I am nothing but an insignificant dust particle at the lotus feet of all the vaishnavas...please forgive my offenses. Please accept my sincere apologies as i could not reply on time...I was a little busy in shifting my family to Nanded, Maharashtra...where i presently work as a IIT faculty ( physics) for Horizon discovery academy international school in Nanded...I beg you not to embarrass me by glorifying me as glorification of a fallen soul like me is meaningless..Your reply made me emotional for a few moments ( with tears of humility in my eyes) and was praying to the lord for mercy that my reply can be understood appropriately...I am highly grateful for your immediate response....please continue to roar like a lion and drive away the unnecessary bad elements of ignorance from our hearts and purify us...You are very much fortunate to have the association of HH RAJASEKHARA DAS BRAHMACHARI...I am not fortunate as yourself...
TO HH RAJASEKHARA DAS BHRAHMACHARI...
Dear His Holiness... PAMHO....millions of times...I can see the attitude of a true spiritual warrior in your holiness. Your holiness is 100 % true that a genuine prabhupada man will not be so much outspoken on the confidential pastimes and exalted topics.....I am dedicating 30 years (now i am 32 years) to study the scriptures carefully as recommended by srila prabhupada...I am very reserved and i strictly will not discuss exalted topics with any devotee...I humbly require your help in making me understand the scriptures. I want to discuss with your holiness whenever i have some doubts...I beg you holiness to accept me as your small disciple and guide me...upon completion of every book...i will be preparing my notes which i will be scanning and will send to you for verification...which can be utilized for then next generation of devotees...I didnot feel any discomfort with your statements...
Hare krishna prabhu,
Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to acbsp...I beg you to kindly understand that i am not at all agitated and i already submitted myself that " i am completely unqualified and ineligible to comment or answering questions from jaiva dharma and other transcendental literatures..." and I am very careful in these exalted topics....i already submitted my reply in the first comment itself and expressed my unqualified nature in answering these exalted questions...The opinion of HH RAJASEKHARA DAS BRAHMACHARI is 100 % true and i completely agree with his valuable opinion...I also do not want to introduce Jaiva dharma as its very very exalted....HH RAJASEKHARA DAS BRAHMACHARI'S works regarding vrindavan guide and other books are transcendentally wonderful and i am interested in getting the hard copies too. ..Can you help me in getting those books ?
yours humble servant
I am also very much deeply interested by the works of HH RAJASEKHARA DAS BRAHMACHARI...and i also wanted to learn some of his views on some exalted topics like vedic cosmology etc...kindly let me know prabhu...
yours humble servant
My dearly beloved friend Sri Krsna-gauranga Nitai, your statements reveal you as a true Vaishnava, unlike myself who is always at fault due to my youthful uncontrollable enthusiasm in Krishna consciousness. I am vastly junior to your exalted self but due to association with Rajasekhara, often speak like a learned scholar and roar like a lion. Please forgive me for my excesses.
The entire matter arose after your comment which appeared to cast doubt on my own comment on jiva-tattva, which was so kindly provided to me by Rajasekhara. Therefore Rajasekhara felt that you did not agree with the answer, otherwise, why give a caution, although you did not provide an alternative opinion. I accept you did not introduce Jaiva Dharma, but it appeared to Rajasekhara that you may have been influenced in the same way that so many of Shrila Prabhupada's disciples have been influenced, resulting in complete bewilderment which produced the 'Leaves controversy'. Both Rajasekhara and myself are overjoyed to realize that you are a cent percent Prabhupada man and a very humble soul indeed. Rajasekhara says "All glories to you Sri Krsna Gauranga Nitai das," and also offers his obeisances to you and hopes that he has not caused you any discomfort by his statement. He also gumbly requests that you not address him with such grand titles, HH, HG, even addressing him as prabhu causes him to cringe, but he says as His Divine Grace has given this form of address between devotees, so that's fine enough.
Rajasekhara will be happy to open a dialogue with you and if you copy me your email to (das143101@gmail.com), I will send you his direct link. His new book Bhu-mandala Tattva-darshan, is of interest to you because it was the life-work of you own spiritual master, to understand the secrets of the 5th canto, which will be revealed in this new work. As far as books by Rajasekhara, hard copies are available from Divya Multimedia, Vrindavana (www.divyabooks.com). Digital pdf versions of all his books are available at vrindavanaguide.com. A new range of books designed for the US market are availanle at Smashwords.com (https://www.smashwords.com/books/search?query=rajasekhara). I might recommend Rajasekhara's Vraja Mandala Parikrama, as the most up to date research available on the subject of Vrindavana Dhama. With best regards Samrat.
If you had read my response more carefully to the discussion, you would have seen that the opinion expressed regarding Jaiva Dharma, was made by Rajasekhara (ACBSP), not by myself, Samrat. Rajasekhara says that all those who read Jaiva Dharma conclude a different opinion than the one revealed by Shrila Prabhupada in his books. The entire 'LEAVES NEVER FALL' controversy was raised by those who had read Jaiva Dharma. You are just another one of those raising the same controversy after having read the same book. Rajasekhara advises you to read Shrila Prabhupada's books to find the answer to Jiva tattva, not Jaiva Dharma. Also having re-read Rajasekhara's talk, He has not accused you of blasphemy or any such offense against the acharyas, this is your misconception. It was his opinion that you are not qualified to read Jaiva Dharma, that's all, because if you were advanced enough, you would have easily understood the jiva tattva presented in the original discussion, and would not be so agitated by the whole episode.Rajasekhara says Prabhupada did not like big discussions on points like jiva tattva, that are beyond the mental scope of kanishta adhikaris. The example given by Shrila Prabhupada is that if someone gets shot with an arrow, rather than contemplate who shot the arrow, get the arrow out before you bleed to death. But I guess you never read that, otherwise you would not be raising this issue in the way that you are. Please remain calm, no one has accused you, only advised you, read Prabhupada's book first to undertand his philosophy. When you are fixed up, then you can study further. Regards Samrat
Hare krishna,
PAMHO...The above question is a very exalted one and a Transcendentally realized expertise is required to deal with such exalted topics. The question is directly from Jaiva Dharma by Bhaktivinoda Thakura...one of the most exalted vaishnavas and a direct associate of Lord gauranga mahaprabhu...I myself am the most fallen soul and naturally unqualified and ineligible to answer this question. I wholeheartedly appreciate the inquisitiveness of the sincere soul who asked this question. At the same time, I humbly beg all the devotees who had answered and who wanted to answer this question have got some very important aspect to realize:
The person should be a staunch vaishnava and expert in scriptures with full faith, not with mundane scholarly attitude to answer the questions for SELF RECOGNITION. I also humbly beg the devotees to kindly revise their answers many times before answering these type of questions. The question should be properly understood before answering and requires immense transcendental realizations in life...I humbly beg all the devotees for their forgiveness if i had unintentionally offended them. Its like a self introspection of our progress in spiritual life.
yours humble servant
Sri krsna gauranga Nitai das.
This response has been dictated by Rajasekhara (ACBSP). Dear devotee, your advice is very good accept one oversight. It as our humble opinion that the greatest ever Vaishnava acharya and foremost preacher of Krishna consciousness that the world has ever seen, or is likely to ever see, is His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The answers to Jiva-tattva revealed in Shrila Prabhupada's books is super-excellent, very clear, and very precise, but beyond the capacity of mental speculators and puffed-up mundane philosophers to comprehend. As the shastra says, "Only unto those who have absolute faith in the lotus feet of the spiritual master, a pure devotee, are all the imports of Vedic knowledge revealed." Although we place our head as the foot-stool of Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Shrila Prabhupada's explanation on jiva-tattva, is the pure siddhanta and the most sublime, therefore Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu chose Shrila Prabhupada to be the jagat-guru, the world teacher. It is our experience that those who read Jaiva-dharma, are unqualified to approach Shrila Bhakticinoda, because they have been unable to comprehend jiva-tattva as explained by His Divine Grace. It is also our humble opinion that those who take shelter of Jaiva-dharma, instead of Shrila Prabhupada's books, are those who have lost faith in Shrila Prabhupada and deviated from his lotus feet. Such persons will amount to nothing in this world or the next, and can never be of consequence to the Sankirtan Movement of Lord Chaitania Mahaprabhu. Most of them have already fallen by the wayside, whereas those who have absolute faith in Shrila Prabhupada's teachings, are truly realized souls and capable of conquering the world on behalf of Shrila Prabhupada and the Sankirtan Movement, only history will be the judge, not you or any one else. (end of Rajasekhara's dialogue). I hope this has satisfied your concerns. Regards Samrat.
The jivas are eternal because they are an aspect of Lord Krishna's internal potency (hladini shakti) which is eternal, just as Krishna is eternal. (The internal potency (hladibi-shakti) actually manifests the marginal potency which is the source of the jivas) Whether the jivas are manifest or not manifest, they are always eternal simply because they are part of the Lord's hladini shakti, which is eternal. This means that even before the material creation takes place, the non-manifested jivas are eternally existing within the Lords internal potency. Material creation simply means the manifestation of Lord Krishna's potency that was previously non-manifest. Therefore both the Lord and the jivas are eternal.
hare krishna.....
krishna is the root of all causes ...he is the rolling fireball which is spreading positiveness all over the universe...
krishna is the whole and jiva is an atomic part of the whole big fireball.all jivas are the sparks which have been spilleed out of the fireball for sum or the purpose.krishna sends all jives to do the duty he has assigned after the duty u return back to him....
the flesh ,the toil,the swet are arent eternal but the atma insides this 9 holes of seave is eternal.. it came out of him and it reaches back to him......
our birth is true and death is truth rest all is the drama what this body plays and the drama is written by him..
krishna is an unexpressable feel which is above all the desires... that is y he is source of all....he is the start and he is the end.. he is our uchvasa(the first breath wat we take after cuming into our mother womb)and nishvasa (the last breth wat our body takes wen the souls leaves the body away)... our flesh and bones are created but the soul is eternal which will be installed by him.. just like how we install a OS in our laptop the same way....once after the OS is used completely it will changed... the same thing happens with us too.. he changes the body but not the soul.. the soul or the jiva wat we say is the atomic particle of the lord.. that is paramatma....
hopefully ive answered u upto the mark..
this is my opinion and ive explained u with all the knowlege what krishna has blessed me..
if any queries u can contact me to vinayvanmali@gmail.com
hare krishna