A question many times arise, many hold this opinion regarding upanisads that upanisads talks about Impersonal Brahman, Shiva etc. But this view is not truth rather absurd beacuse the teachings of Upanisads should be inline with teachings of Bhagavad Gita, Vedanta Sutra, Purusha Suktam, mahabharata, Ramayana etc. we can't take just few context out of any upanisads or any scripture and establish any view according to that, a truth can only be established when it supported by other scriptures.
Like some upanisads talks about impersonal aspect of god for e.g.
Svetasvatara Upanisad (3.10): tato yad uttarataram tad arupam anamayam/ ya etad vidur amrtas te bhavanti athetare duhkham evapiyanti.
This impersonalist use this verse to show gos has no form (Arupam). But this if we see without seeing other verses of the same upanisads then we really conclude that god is impersonal. But no , beacuse the same upanisads says
Other verses in the Svetasvatara Upanisad (3.8-9) substantiate this as follows:
vedaham etam purusam mahantam aditya-varnam tamasah parastat
tam eva viditvati mrtyum eti nanyah pantha vidyate 'yanaya
yasmat param naparam asti kincid yasman naniyo no jyayo 'sti kincit
vrksa iva stabdho divi tisthaty ekastenedam purnam purusena sarvam
"I know that Supreme Personality of Godhead who is transcendental to all material conceptions of darkness. Only he who knows Him can transcend the bonds of birth and death. There is no way for liberation other than this knowledge of that Supreme Person.
"There is no truth superior to that Supreme Person, because He is the supermost. He is smaller than the smallest, and He is greater than the greatest. He is situated as a silent tree, and He illumines the transcendental sky, and as a tree spreads its roots, He spreads His extensive energies."
Now few things to understand here that the upanisads first mentioned him arupam ( no form) again in other verses declared he is Purusha (Person) . So what should we conclude, it seems apparant contradiction , but there is no contradiction beacuse Arupam used for that the Purusha has no form like us, he has no material form rather he has a transcendental form.
Another thing if we accept few verse of upanisads talks about impersonal accept, and we conclude that absolute truth is impersonal on that basis, then what will we answer to those verse which talks god is personal.
Like in BG Krishna saying
BG 14.27: And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.
BG 9.11: Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.
BG 7.24: Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.
How can we deny the verses of Isha upanisads:
Iso 15: O my Lord, sustainer of all that lives, Your real face is covered by Your dazzling effulgence. Kindly remove that covering and exhibit Yourself to Your pure devotee.
Iso 16: O my Lord, O primeval philosopher, maintainer of the universe, O regulating principle, destination of the pure devotees, well-wisher of the progenitors of mankind, please remove the effulgence of Your transcendental rays so that I can see Your form of bliss. You are the eternal Supreme Personality of Godhead, like unto the sun, as am I.
So shastra should be read as a whole, not as a part, else we will jump in worng conclusion, beacuse if we conclude god is impersonal then we have to refute Bhagavad Gita and Upanisads other statements. But is this possible, that means our understanding is wrong.
Also it happens sometime that other gods name like Shiva occuring in upanisads like in svetasvatara upanisads 5.4 , but this Shiva is nothing but other Name of Vishnu beacuse
27) shivah: He who is eternally pure
600) shivah: Auspiciousness
The both names appears in the 27th name of Vishnu in Vishnu sahsranama.
Again to confirm this Krishna saying
BG 10.23: Of all the Rudras I am Lord Śiva, of the Yakṣas and Rākṣasas I am the Lord of wealth [Kuvera], of the Vasus I am fire [Agni], and of mountains I am Meru.
So this confirms That Vishnu is Shiva and not the other way around, thus Upanisad can't say Siva is supreme in these verse , because its simply not supported by Vedanta-sutra, Bhagavd Gita, Purusha Suktam and other verse of Upanisads.
Hence Shastra should and can only be understandable when we follow proper source and bonafide paramapara rather than trying to intrepret on own whim. Any verse from any shastra shoulb be confirmed by Prashtana traya (Vedanta-sutra, Upanisads and BG) . Bhagavad Gita is the basis and other should be inline with this. Else that interpretation has no value.
Replies
Now let's come to Bhagavatam, the best of all puranas. It's often painful when some of the so-called devotees refuse to accept what Bhagavatam preaches.
Why should we accept Bhagavatam?
Vyasadeva personally wrote the Vedanta-sutra under the instructions of Narada, his Guru Maharaja (spiritual master), but still he was not satisfied. That is a long story, described in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Vedavyasa was not very satisfied even after compiling many Puranas and Upanishads, and even after writing the Vedanta-sutra. Then his spiritual master, Narada, instructed him, "You explain the Vedanta-sutra."Vedanta means "ultimate knowledge," and the ultimate knowledge is Krishna. Krishna says that throughout all the Vedas one has to understand Him: vedanta-krid veda-vid eva caham. Krishna says, "I am the compiler of the Vedanta-sutra, and I am the knower of the Vedas." Therefore the ultimate objective is Krishna. That is explained in all the Vaishnava commentaries on Vedanta philosophy. We GaudiyaVaishnavas have our commentary on Vedanta philosophy, called Govinda-bhashya, by Baladeva Vidyabhushana. Similarly, Ramanujacarya has a commentary, and Madhvacarya has one. The version of Sankaracarya is not the only commentary. There are many Vedanta commentaries, but because the Vaishnavas did not present the first Vedanta commentary, people are under the wrong impression that Sankaracarya's is the only Vedanta commentary. Besides that, Vyasadeva himself wrote the perfect Vedanta commentary, Srimad-Bhagavatam. Srimad-Bhagavatambegins with the first words of the Vedanta-sutra: janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. And that janmady asya yatah is fully explained inSrimad-Bhagavatam. The Vedanta-sutra simply hints at what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth: "The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates." This is a summary, but it is explained in detail in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If everything is emanating from the Absolute Truth, then what is the nature of the Absolute Truth? That is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Absolute Truth must be consciousness. He is self-effulgent (sva-rat). We develop our consciousness and knowledge by receiving knowledge from others, but for Him it is said that He is self-effulgent. The whole summary of Vedic knowledge is the Vedanta-sutra, and the Vedanta-sutra is explained by the writer himself inSrimad-Bhagavatam. We finally request those who are actually after Vedic knowledge to try to understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita.-Srila Prabhupada.
Bhagavatam gives perfect knowledge as it imparts Vedic knowledge which can never be confuted. As it gives Vedic knowledge, it is the ultimate knowledge.
Shiva about Lord Vishnu-
yaḥ paraḿ raḿhasaḥ sākṣāt
tri-guṇāj jīva-saḿjñitāt
bhagavantaḿ vāsudevaḿ
prapannaḥ sa priyo hi me
SYNONYMS
yaḥ — anyone; param — transcendental; raḿhasaḥ — of the controller; sākṣāt — directly; tri-guṇāt — from the three modes of material nature; jīva-saḿjñitāt — living entities called by the name jīvas; bhagavantam — unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead; vāsudevam — unto Kṛṣṇa; prapannaḥ — surrendered; saḥ — he; priyaḥ — very dear; hi — undoubtedly; me — of me.
TRANSLATION
Lord Śiva continued: Any person who is surrendered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, the controller of everything — material nature as well as the living entity — is actually very dear to me.
PURPORT
Now Lord Śiva explains the reason he has personally come before the princes. It is because all the princes are devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā (7.19):
bahūnāḿ janmanām ante
jñānavān māḿ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ
"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare."
Lord Śiva is rarely seen by common men, and similarly a person who is fully surrendered unto Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is also very rarely seen because a person who is fully surrendered unto the Supreme Lord is very rare (sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ). Consequently Lord Śiva came especially to see the Pracetās because they were fully surrendered unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva is also mentioned in the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the mantra, oḿ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Since Vāsudeva is the ultimate truth, LordŚiva openly proclaims that one who is a devotee of Lord Vāsudeva, who is surrendered to Lord Kṛṣṇa, is actually very dear to him. LordVāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is worshipable not only by ordinary living entities but by demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā and others. Yaḿ brahmā-varuṇendra-rudra-marutaḥ stuvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ (Bhāg. 12.13.1). Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Varuṇa, Indra, Candraand all other demigods. That is also the situation with a devotee. Indeed, one who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately becomes very dear to anyone who is simply finding out and beginning to understand what Kṛṣṇa consciousness actually is. Similarly, all the demigods are also trying to find out who is actually surrendered to Lord Vāsudeva. Because the Pracetā princes were surrendered to Vāsudeva, Lord Śivawillingly came forth to see them.
Lord Vāsudeva, or Kṛṣṇa, is described in Bhagavad-gītā as Puruṣottama. Actually He is the enjoyer (puruṣa) and the Supreme (uttama) as well. He is the enjoyer of everything — the prakṛti and the puruṣa. Being influenced by the three modes of material nature, the living entity tries to dominate material nature, but actually he is not the puruṣa (enjoyer) but prakṛti, as described in Bhagavad-gītā (7.5): apareyam itas tvanyāḿ prakṛtiḿ viddhi me parām. Thus the jīva, or living entity, is actually prakṛti, or the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. Being associated with material energy, he tries to lord it over the material nature. This is also confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (15.7):
mamaivāḿśo jīva-loke
jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
By endeavoring to dominate material nature, the living entity simply struggles hard for existence. Indeed, he struggles so hard to enjoy himself that he cannot even enjoy the material resources. Thus he is sometimes called prakṛti, or jīva, for he is situated in the marginal potency. When the living entity is covered with the three modes of material nature, he is called jīva-saḿjñita. There are two kinds of living entities: one is called kṣara, and the other is akṣara. Kṣara refers to those who have fallen down and become conditioned, and akṣara refers to those who are not conditioned. The vast majority of living entities live in the spiritual world and are called akṣara. They are in the position ofBrahman, pure spiritual existence. They are different from those who have been conditioned by the three modes of material nature.
Being above both the kṣara and akṣara, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, is described in Bhagavad-gītā (15.18) as Puruṣottama. The impersonalists may say that Vāsudeva is the impersonal Brahman, but actually the impersonal Brahman is subordinate to Kṛṣṇa, as also confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (14.27): brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham. That Kṛṣṇa is the source of the impersonal Brahman is also confirmed in Brahma-saḿhitā(5.40): yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadaṇḍa-koṭi. The impersonal Brahman is nothing but the effulgence or bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, and in those bodily rays there are innumerable universes floating. Thus in all respects Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is the Supreme Lord, and Lord Śiva is very satisfied with those who are completely surrendered to Him. Complete surrender is desired by Kṛṣṇa, as He indicates in the last chapter of Bhagavad-gītā (18.66): sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaḿ śaraṇaḿ vraja. The word sākṣāt, meaning "directly," is very significant. There are many so-called devotees, but actually they are only karmīs and jñānīs, for they are not directly devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa. The karmīs sometimes offer the results of their activities to Lord Vāsudeva, and this offering is called karmārpaṇam. These are considered to be fruitive activities, for the karmīs consider Lord Viṣṇu to be one of the demigods like Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā. Because they consider Lord Viṣṇu to be on the same level with the demigods, they contend that surrendering to the demigods is as good as surrendering unto Vāsudeva. This contention is denied herein because if it were true, Lord Śiva would have said that surrender unto him, Lord Vāsudeva, Viṣṇu or Brahmā is the same. However, Lord Śiva does not say this because he himself surrenders unto Vāsudeva, and whoever else surrenders unto Vāsudeva is very, very dear to him. This is expressed herein openly. The conclusion is that a devotee of Lord Śiva is not dear to Lord Śiva, but a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa is very dear to Lord Śiva.
Hare Krishna, dear devotees!!! Before we get into this controversy, let's see, what the Shiva has to say about his own position with respect to Vishnu. That will make things more easier to understand-
The Actual Secret of Lord Shiva
Adapted from Shri Padma Purana,
Uttara Khanda Chapters 235-236.
Parvati Said, "O Lord Shiva, You once told me that one should avoid speaking with Pasandi atheistic demon,and that doing so is worse then talking to candalas outcastes. Please tell me of what are the symptoms of such persons and what signs do they wear on their bodies?"
Shiva replied,"Those Persons who,deluded by ignorace,describw any other deity being superior to Vishnu,The Lord of the world, are said to be Pasandis. Those who,although they do not belong to the Vanaprastha asrama, use skulls, decorate their bodies with ashes and bones, have non-Vedic marks, matted hair, and wear garments of tree bark, are said to be pasandis. Those brahmanas who are devoid of the marks and symbols dear to Vishnu, such as conches, discs,and vertical-lined tilaka worn on the forehead, are said to be pasandis. That brahman who does not follow the practices given in the sastra should be known as a pasandi and should be condemned by all people. Those who have no devotion for the Lord are said to be pasandi. One who behaves as he likes and offers oblations in to the fire for the worship of deities other than Lord Vishnu should be known as a pasandi, for Lord Vishnu is the enjoyer of fruit of all sacrifices and is the deity of brahmanas. He who considers Lord Vishnu as equal to other deities such as Brahma and myself, Rudra,should always be called a pasandi. That brahmana, who with his speech, body,and deeds dose not recognize Vishnu,is a pasandi. What is the use of saying much in this regard? Those brahmanas who are not devotees of Vishnu should never be asked any questions, should never be talked to,and should never be seen,"
Parvati said,"O lord,O best of gods,I want to ask you something secret. Through love for me,please answer. I have a great doubt.The sastras condemn using skulls, dercorating the body with ashes, and wearing skins of animals. Yet,you do all these things. Why are these thing condemned? O Lord of the gods, O highly intelligent one, due to women's natural fickleness I am asking you these questions. It may be that due to your great power you do not have to follow the sastric injunctions you just described, but previously you had not instructed me in this way. Therefore,O lord, please pardon my question."
Inquired thus by Pavati in that lonely place free from people,Lord Shiva explained to her the great secrets of his own behaviour. Shiva said, "O Goddess, please listen carefully. I shall tell you a very wonderful secret. You should not repeat what I am about to tell you to common people. I shall tell you the since your body is not separate form mine. Long ago, in the age of Swayambhuva Manu, there were many great demons like Namuchi [The demon Namuchi is described in Shrimad Bhagavatam 8.11.23-40.] who were very powerful and valorous heroes. All of them were devoted to Vishnu, acted purely, and were free from all sins. They followed the pratices laid down in the Vedas. Seeing this, all of gods head by Indra were greatly frustrated. Overcome by fear,they approached Lord Vishnu and took shelter of Him.
"The devas said,'O Kesava, only You can conqeur these great demons who cannot be conqured by all of the gods and who have washed off their sins with penance.'"
Lord Shiva continued, "Hearing the frightful words of the demigods, Lord Vishnu, Purushottma consoled the devas,and said to me,'O Rudra,O you of might arms, O you who are the best of the gods, for the purpose of deluding the enemies of the demigods prepere a course of conduct to be followed by pasandis. Narrate to them the dark puranas, which will take them astray. O intelligent one, you should create holy texts that will cause the demons to become confused.
"'Through devotion to Me,and for the good of the world, You should approach atheistic sages such as Kanada, Gautama,Sakti, Upamanyu, Jaimini, Kapila,[not to be confused with Kapila,the son of Devahuti], Durvasa, Mrikandu, Brihaspati, Bhargava, and Jamadagni. Exert upon them your power of suggestion. Being infused by your power they will become powerful pasandis. There is no doubt about it. Empowered by you, these brahmanas will narrate to the three worlds the Puranas and doctrines in the mode of ingnorance. O Shiva, on your person you should bear symbols like a skull, animal skins, ashes, and bones. Dressed in way you should fully delude everyone in the three Worlds. You should also inaugurate the pasupata order [The pasupates are a group of followers of Lord Shiva] with its divisions like kankala, saiva, pasanda and mahasaiva. Through these persons you should preach a doctrine whose followers wear no particular identifying marks and are outside the Vedic fold. Wearing ashes and bones, they will be bereft of higher consciousness and will consider you to be the greatest god.
"'Taking to these doctrines, all of these demons will become averse to Me in a moment.There is no doubt it. O powerful Rudra,in every age in My different incarnations I too shall worship you to delude the demons. Following these doctrines,they will undoubtedly fall down.'"(Now you should understand, why Krishna worshipped Shiva in Mahabharata.
Lord Shiva then told Parvati, "O beautiful one, after hearing Lord Vishnu's words, although I am a good speaker I become helpless snd silent.Then offering my obeisances to Lord Vishnu, I said, O Lord,if I do what You have said,it will certainly lead to my destruction. It is is not possoble for me to carry out this instrustion, yet Your order is not to be disobeyed. This is very Painful."
"O goddess,hearing my words, Vishnu spkoke in such way to restore my happiness. He said,'This will not be the cause of your destruction. Do as I order you for the good of the demigods. I shall also give you the means to maintain yourself while you are preaching these demoniac philosophies. Then with compassion, Lord Vishnu gave me the prayers known as Vishnu-sahasra-nama. Vishnu said,'Installing Me in your heart, utter My indestructible mantra. This very powerful six-syllable mantra is transcendental and awards liberation to thise who worship Me with devotion. There is no doubt about this.'
indivar-dala-syamam padma-patra-vilocanam
sankhanga-sarngesu-dharam sarvabharana-bhusitam
pita-vastram catur-bahum janaki-priya-vallabham
shri-ramaya nama ity evam uccaryam mantram-uttamam
sarva-duhkha haram caitat papinam api mukti-dam
imam mantram japan nityam amalas tvam bhavisyasi
I offer my obeisances to Him, dark like the petal of a blue lotus, with lotus-petal eyes, holding a conch, a disc, and sarnga bow, adorned with all ornaments, wearing yellow ornements, having four arms, and who is the dear lord of Janaki, Sita-devi.The divine mantra, 'shri-ramaya namah,' should be chanted. It remones all lamentation and gives salvation to even sinners. One who regularly chants this mantra will be free from all contamination.[6.235.44-46]
"'All of the sinful rections due to wearing ashes and bones will all be destroyed and everthing will beacome auspicious due to reciting My mantra. O best of the gods, being pleased I shall destroy all sin. By My blessings, devotion to no other god than Me will arise. In your heart, worship Me who is the Supreme Being. Obey My order. Due to love for Me, everything will be auspicious for you. 'Having thus ordered Me, O goddes, He dismissed the hosts of gods who then returned to their own abodes. The gods led by Indra then requested me, 'O Mahadev, Shiva, Quickly perform those beneficial acts as instructed by Lord Vishnu.'"
Mahadeva then said to goddess Parvati, "O auspicious one, for the good of the gods I took to the way of the pasandis and started wearing skulls, hides, ashes, and bones. O auspicious one, as instructed by Lord Vishnu, I distributed the tamasic puranas and the pasandi Shiva doctrines. O sinless one, by entering Gautama and other brahmanas with my potency I proclaimed texts outside the Vedic fold. Adopting the system I gave, all of the wicked demons became averse to Lord Vishnu, and were enveloped in ignorance. Applying ashes to their bodies and performing severe penance, they stopped worship of Lord Vishnu and worshiped only me with flesh, blood and sandalwood.
"Receiving boons from me, they became intoxicated with power and pride. They were very much attached to the object of the senses, and were full of lust and anger. In that condition, devoid of goodness, they were defeated by the devas. Bereft of righteous paths, those who resort to this doctrine of mine alway go to hell.
"O goddess, thus this behavior of mine is only followed by me for the good of the gods. Following Lord Vishnu's order, I decorate myslf with ashes and bones. O goddess, these external marks are meant only for deluding the demons. In my heart I always meditate upon the Supreme Lord Vishnu and always chant His mantras. By chanting this great six-syllable mantra I taste the eternal nectar of ecstatic joy. O Lady with an auspicious face, I have answered all that you have asked me. Affectionately I ask you, what else do you desire to hear?"
Parvati said, "O sinless one, tell me about the tamasic scriptures that were composed by the brahmanas bereft of devotion to the Lord. O Lord of the demigods Please tell me their names in sequence.
Lord Shiva replied, "O goddess, please listen. In sequence I shall tell you about the tamasic texts. Simply by remembering them even wise persons become deluded. First,I Myself proclaimed the Shiva, pasupata, and related texts. After my power had entered him, Kanada preached the Vaisesika Philosophy. Similarly, Gautama preached Nyaya,and Kapila preached the atheistic Sankhya. Brihaspati preached the much-censured Charvaka doctrine, and Buddha proclaimed Buddhism to destroy the demons.
Padma Purana 6.236.7
mayavadam asac chastram pracchannam bauddham uchyate
mayaiva kalpitam devi kalau brahmana rupina
"Mayavada or Advaita philosophy is an impious, wicked belief and against all the conclusions of the Vedas. It is only covered Buddhism. My dear Parvati, in Kali-Yoga I assume the form of a brahmana (Adi Shankara) and teach this imagined philosophy.
Padma Purana 6.236.8-9
apartham sruti-vakyanam darsayan loka-garhitam
sva-karma-rupam tyajya tvam atraiva pratipadyate
sarva-karma paribhrastair vaidharma tvam tad ucyate
paresa-jiva-paraikyam maya tu pratipadyate
"This mayavada advaita philosophy preached by me (in form of Adi Shankara) deprives the words of the holy texts of their acutal meaning and thus it is condemned in the world. It recommends the renunciation of one's own duties, since those who have fallen from their duties say that the giving up of duties is religiosity. In this way, I have also falsely propounded the identity of the Supreme Lord and the individual soul."
Padma Purana 6.236.10
brahmanas caparam rupam nirgunam vaksyate maya
sarva-svam jagato py asya mohanartham kalu yuge
"In order to bewilder the atheists, in Kali-yuga, I describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Gauranga Krishna to be without any form and without qualities."
Padma Purana 6.236.11
vedante tu maha-sastrera mayavadam avaidikam
mayaiva vaksyate devi jagatam nasha-karanat
"Similarly, in explaning Vedanta mahashastra, I described the same non-scriptural and inauspicious mayavada philosophy in order to mislead the entire population toward atheism by denying the personal form of my beloved Lord."
[As described in the seventh chapter of adi-lila of Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita, while speaking to Prakashananda Saraswati and the mayavadi sannyasis of Benares, Lord Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu cited these texts to show how Lord Shiva had come in Kali-yuga as Shripad Sankaracharya to propound the philosophy of monism and bewilder the souls. Cited translation of texts 7,10 and 11 are based on the translation of His Divine Grace Shrila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as found in his purport to Cc. Adi 7.110.]
This gives a clear glimpse into the fact that worshipping of Shiva(as Supreme God) and Mayavada are meant for beguiling the atheists. We have to separate tares from the wheat. So non-devotees should be separated from pure devotees of Shri Hari. So Shiva had to deliberately establish the pashupata order and preach Mayavad for this purpose and thus do his service to Vishnu, being a great devotee of Hari.
Hare Krishna Darian Prabhuji. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Srijon Prabhu already nicely explained all the doubts, nothing further to say regarding Lord Shiva's position. What I want to add is few Shruti pramana , which speaks How Rudra is born of Vishnu. Refute this with evidence from Shruti only, will not accept any smriti, smriti we have enough pramana to defeat you illogical argument. But show me from any authenticated accepted Shruti where it says Vishnu born out of Rudra. Any smriti (puranas, History) should be inline with the statement of Shruti, else it is not accepted as pramana or evidence in Vedantic tradition.
dādhāra dakṣamuttamamaharvidaṃ vrajaṃ ca viṣṇuḥ sakhivānaporṇute
"Viṣṇu hath power supreme and might that finds the day" (Rig Veda 1:156:4)
oṃ tad viṣṇoḥ paramam padam sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ
"All the suras (i.e., the devas) look always toward the feet of Lord Vishnu." (Rig Veda, 1:22:20)
agnirvai devanamavamo vishnuh paramah tadantara sarva devatah
"Agni is the lowest and Vishnu is the highest among devas. All other gods occupy positions that are in between." (Aitareya Brahmana 1.1.1)
"Then we shall expound the Mahopanishad. They say Narayana was alone. There were not Brahma, Shiva, Waters, Fire and Soma, Heaven and Earth, Stars, Sun and Moon. He could not be happy" (Maha Upanishad: I-1-4)
"You are the Lord of all other controllers such as Brahma and Siva. You are the Lord of all the devatas such as Indra. You are the Lord of all the prajapatis. You are superior to the supreme. We know you as the ultimate object of all prayers and eulogies; the Supreme Personality who is keen on performing wonderful pastimes" (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.7)
"Narayana desired to create people. Because of this thought, Soul (prana) rose from him. Mind and all body parts, sky, air, light, water and the earth which can carry all these created beings took their form. From Narayana, Brahma was born. From Narayana, Rudra (Shiva) was born. From Narayana, Indra was born .From Narayana those people who rule these human beings were born. From Narayana, the twelve suns, eleven Rudras, Eight Vasus and all those meters (for writing) were born. All these function because of Narayana. All these end in Narayana. Thus is read, the Upanishads of Rig Veda." (Narayana Upanishad)
vamangad asrjad visnum daksinangat prajapatim
jyotir-linga-mayam sambhum kurca-desad avasrjat
"Maha-Visnu created Visnu from His left limb, Brahma, the first
progenitor of beings, from His right limb and, from the space between His two
eyebrows, Sambhu, the divine masculine manifested halo." (Brahma-Samhita 5:15)
Purusha Suktam 2nd Anuvakya verse 6
hreeshca te lakshmeeshca patnyau | ahorAtre pArshve |
nakshatrANi roopam | ashvinau vyAttam |
Hree and Lakshmi Are your consorts, your Two sides, Day and Night,
The stars your form, Healing your words.
THis is Purusha Suktam, NO scripture can contradict this. This is essence of all Vedas, it talks about the Original Purusha (the supreme Brhman) , and it clearly states that the Purusha is Laksmi Pati, now who is Laxmi Pati , its Vishnu/Narayana/Krishna only. Not Shiva.
There is no purusha suktam for Shiva
Any doubt remain after that.
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Another thing you gave evidence from Mahabharata that Krishna glorifying Lord Shiva. Its proves nothing indeed. Krishna glorify all his devotees.
He took shoes of Nanda Maharaja on his head, does it prove that he is not Para-Brahman?
He became the shoe -keeper in Ashamedha yajna performed by Yudhistira, Does it mean he is shoe-keeper?
He washed Sudhama's feet, Does it any how low his position as supreme personality of Goadhead?
He always bow down to Pandavas, Does it mean anything.
This all are baseless argument, else Mahabharata would placed Shiva Gita , Not Bhagavad Gita and held Krishna as Prabrahman in BG 10.12-13
paraḿ brahma paraḿ dhāma pavitraḿ paramaḿ bhavān
puruṣaḿ śāśvataḿ divyam ādi-devam ajaḿ vibhum
āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve devarṣir nāradas tathā
asito devalo vyāsaḥsvayaḿ caiva bravīṣi me
Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate abode, the purest, the Absolute Truth. You are the eternal, transcendental, original person, the unborn, the greatest. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala and Vyāsa confirm this truth about You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.
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Please take shelter of a bonafide guru and parampara, to understand vedic scriptures rather than useless speculation without any basis. Read scripture as a whole not a part of it. The meaning varies in great degree.
Hope this will help
your aspiring servant
Hari Bol
Hello brother Sudipta! Its about time us 3 once again began our spiritual debates it was starting to get dull without us 3 battling eachother and i'm sure the devatas (iskcon discussion watchers are witnessing and enjoying this) In no way would I ever undermine the greatness of Lord Vishnu. When scriptures speak of Lord Vishnu in such a way I have no objection to those statements as Lord Vishnu is very dear to me and is the Supreme Being. But Lord Shiva also is vastly great and inconceivable. Now lets continue this friendly discussion.
Another thing you gave evidence from Mahabharata that Krishna glorifying Lord Shiva. Its proves nothing indeed. Krishna glorify all his devotees.
Indeed I agree and Krishna indeed is that great that he glorifies his devotees, but calling someone the "Ancient Purusha" etc cannot be compared to washing sudamas feet. Krishna has never spoken such a way about anyone in this way but Shiva. Lord Krishna speaks about Lord Shiva much more in detail of his greatness then what I have posted and I am not speaking just about his prayers, but Yudisthra and Bhishma both asked Krishna to describe Lord Shiva and his greatness and there are pages of his words.
You asked for shruti texts:
Rudra-Hridaya Upanishad:
sarvadevaatmako rudraH sarve devaaH shivaatmakaaH .
rudrasya dakshiNe paarshve ravirbrahmaa trayo.agnayaH .. 4..
vaamapaarshve umaa devii vishhNuH somo.api te trayaH .
yaa umaa saa svaya.n vishhNuryo vishhNuH sa hi chandramaaH .. 5..
ye namasyanti govinda.n te namasyanti sha~Nkaram.h .
ye.archayanti hariM bhaktyaa te.archayanti vR^ishhadhvajam.h .. 6..
ye dvishhanti viruupaaksha.n te dvishhanti janaardanam.h .
ye rudra.n naabhijaananti te na jaananti keshavam.h
Sri Suka asked his father Sri Vyasa Maharshi, thus:
Who is the real God of gods? In whom are all these existences established? By worshipping whom, can I please the Devas in whole?
Hearing these words, Sri Veda Vyasa replied thus:
Rudra is the embodiment of all Devas. All devas are merely different manifestations of Sri Rudra Himself. On the right side of Rudra, there is the sun, then the four-headed Brahma, and then three Agnis (fires). On the left side, there exist Sri Umadevi, and also Vishnu and Soma (moon). Uma Herself is the form of Vishnu. Vishnu Himself is the form of the moon. Therefore, those who worship Lord Vishnu, worship Siva Himself. And those who worship Siva, worship Lord Vishnu in reality. Those who envy and hate Sri Rudra, are actually hating Sri Vishnu. Those who decry Lord Siva, decry Vishnu Himself.
Hare Krishna Sudipta prabhuji!!! Obeisances!
Thanx for always showing the way a true vaishnav should quote & reply. Not a word different from what the authorities (Guru, Sadhu, Shashtra) say.
73/07/30 London, Bhagavad-gita 1.43
So here Arjuna also says that narake niyatam vaso bhavati iti anususruma:."Krsna, I have heard it from authorative sources." He never says, "Krsna, in my opinion, if it is done like that, then people will go to hell." He does not give his own opinion. He says iti, "Thus," anususruma, "I have heard." This is called parampara system. Nobody should give his own opinion. He must quote the authoritative statement to support his proposition. So similarly, when Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked that "What is the aim of life and how to achieve it?" so Ramananda Raya, he did not give his own opinion, that "In my opinion, like this." Here also Arjuna says, ity anususruma, "I have heard it." He heard it means... Susruma means "heard from authority." So Ramananda Raya said that "Real purpose of life, goal of life, is to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Often the impersonalists cite this verse from Upanishads to establish their foolish doctrine:
tad ejati tan naijati
tad dūre tad v antike
tad antar asya sarvasya
tad u sarvasyāsya bāhyataḥ
TRANSLATION
The Supreme Lord walks and does not walk. He is far away, but He is very near as well. He is within everything, and yet He is outside of everything.-Sri Isopanishad Verse 5
But Srila Prabhupada gives a crystal clear and perfect purport of this verse.
PURPORT
Here is a description of some of the Supreme Lord's transcendental activities, executed by His inconceivable potencies. The contradictions given here prove the inconceivable potencies of the Lord. "He walks, and He does not walk." Ordinarily, if someone can walk, it is illogical to say he cannot walk. But in reference to God, such a contradiction simply serves to indicate His inconceivable power. With our limited fund of knowledge we cannot accommodate such contradictions, and therefore we conceive of the Lord in terms of our limited powers of understanding. For example, the impersonalist philosophers of the Māyāvāda school accept only the Lord's impersonal activities and reject His personal feature. But the members of the Bhāgavata school, adopting the perfect conception of the Lord, accept His inconceivable potencies and thus understand that He is both personal and impersonal. The bhāgavatas know that without inconceivable potencies there can be no meaning to the words "Supreme Lord."
We should not take it for granted that because we cannot see God with our eyes the Lord has no personal existence. Śrī Īśopaniṣad refutes this argument by declaring that the Lord is far away but very near also. The abode of the Lord is beyond the material sky, and we have no means to measure even this material sky. If the material sky extends so far, then what to speak of the spiritual sky, which is altogether beyond it? That the spiritual sky is situated far, far away from the material universe is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā (15.6). But despite the Lord's being so far away, He can at once, within less than a second, descend before us with a speed swifter than that of the mind or wind. He can also run so swiftly that no one can surpass Him. This has already been described in the previous verse.
Yet when the Personality of Godhead comes before us, we neglect Him. Such foolish negligence is condemned by the Lord in the Bhagavad-gītā (9.11), where He says that the foolish deride Him, considering Him a mortal being. He is not a mortal being, nor does He come before us with a body produced of material nature. There are many so-called scholars who contend that the Lord descends in a body made of matter, just like an ordinary living being. Not knowing His inconceivable power, such foolish men place the Lord on an equal level with ordinary men.
Because He is full of inconceivable potencies, God can accept our service through any sort of medium, and He can convert His different potencies according to His own will. Nonbelievers argue either that the Lord cannot incarnate Himself at all, or that if He does He descends in a form of material energy. These arguments are nullified if we accept the existence of the Lord's inconceivable potencies. Then we will understand that even if the Lord appears before us in the form of material energy, it is quite possible for Him to convert this energy into spiritual energy. Since the source of the energies is one and the same, the energies can be utilized according to the will of their source. For example, the Lord can appear in the form of the arcā-vigraha, a Deity supposedly made of earth, stone or wood. Deity forms, although engraved from wood, stone or other matter, are not idols, as the iconoclasts contend.
In our present state of imperfect material existence, we cannot see the Supreme Lord due to imperfect vision. Yet those devotees who want to see Him by means of material vision are favored by the Lord, who appears in a so-called material form to accept His devotees' service. One should not think that such devotees, who are in the lowest stage of devotional service, are worshiping an idol. They are factually worshiping the Lord, who has agreed to appear before them in an approachable way. Nor is the arcā form fashioned according to the whims of the worshiper. This form is eternally existent with all paraphernalia. This can be actually felt by a sincere devotee, but not by an atheist.
In the Bhagavad-gītā (4.11) the Lord says that how He treats His devotee depends on the devotee's degree of surrender. The Lord reserves the right not to reveal Himself to anyone and everyone but to show Himself only to those souls who surrender unto Him. Thus for the surrendered soul He is always within reach, whereas for the unsurrendered soul He is far, far away and cannot be approached.
In this connection, two words the revealed scriptures often apply to the Lord — saguṇa ("with qualities") and nirguṇa ("without qualities") — are very important. The word saguṇa does not imply that when the Lord appears with perceivable qualities He must take on a material form and be subject to the laws of material nature. For Him there is no difference between the material and spiritual energies, because He is the source of all energies. As the controller of all energies, He cannot at any time be under their influence, as we are. The material energy works according to His direction; therefore He can use that energy for His purposes without ever being influenced by any of the qualities of that energy. (In this sense He is nirguṇa, "without qualities.") Nor does the Lord become a formless entity at any time, for ultimately He is the eternal form, the primeval Lord. His impersonal aspect, or Brahman effulgence, is but the glow of His personal rays, just as the sun's rays are the glow of the sun-god.
When the child saint Prahlāda Mahārāja was in the presence of his atheist father, his father asked him, "Where is your God?" WhenPrahlāda replied that God resides everywhere, the father angrily asked whether his God was within one of the pillars of the palace, and the child said yes. At once the atheist king shattered the pillar in front of him to pieces, and the Lord instantly appeared as Nṛsiḿha, the half-man, half-lion incarnation, and killed the atheist king. Thus the Lord is within everything, and He creates everything by His different energies. Through His inconceivable powers He can appear at any place in order to favor His sincere devotee. Lord Nṛsiḿha appeared from within the pillar not by the order of the atheist king but by the wish of His devotee Prahlāda. An atheist cannot order the Lord to appear, but the Lord will appear anywhere and everywhere to show mercy to His devotee. The Bhagavad-gītā (4.8) similarly states that the Lord appears in order to vanquish nonbelievers and protect believers. Of course, the Lord has sufficient energies and agents who can vanquish atheists, but it pleases Him to personally favor a devotee. Therefore He descends as an incarnation. Actually, He descends only to favor His devotees and not for any other purpose.
In the Brahma-saḿhitā (5.35) it is said that Govinda, the primeval Lord, enters everything by His plenary portion. He enters the universe as well as all the atoms of the universe. He is outside in His virāṭ form, and He is within everything as antaryāmī. As antaryāmī He witnesses everything that is going on, and He awards us the results of our actions as karma-phala. We ourselves may forget what we have done in previous lives, but because the Lord witnesses our actions, the results of our actions are always there, and we have to undergo the reactions nonetheless.
The fact is that there is nothing but God within and without. Everything is a manifestation of His different energies, like the heat and light emanating from a fire, and in this way there is a oneness among His diverse energies. Although there is oneness, however, the Lord in His personal form still enjoys unlimitedly all the pleasures enjoyed minutely by the tiny part-and-parcel living entities.
Hare Krishna Sudipta prabhuji
Thank you for posting this and enlightening us.
I do have a question regarding the statements below
"
Also it happens sometime that other gods name like Shiva occuring in upanisads like in svetasvatara upanisads 5.4 , but this Shiva is nothing but other Name of Vishnu beacuse
27) shivah: He who is eternally pure
600) shivah: Auspiciousness
The both names appears in the 27th name of Vishnu in Vishnu sahsranama.
Again to confirm this Krishna saying
BG 10.23: Of all the Rudras I am Lord Śiva, of the Yakṣas and Rākṣasas I am the Lord of wealth [Kuvera], of the Vasus I am fire [Agni], and of mountains I am Meru.
So this confirms That Vishnu is Shiva and not the other way around, thus Upanisad can't say Siva is supreme in these verse , because its simply not supported by Vedanta-sutra, Bhagavd Gita, Purusha Suktam and other verse of Upanisads."
Prabhuji,
When Lord Krishna himself is saying that "Of all the rudras I am lord siva", then why Vaishnava's are so adamant about not worshiping Lord Siva (if somebody is worshiping without any material expectations)?
When we say Siva is Lord Krishna's expansion then what's wrong in worshiping the Rudra form of Lord Krishna as long as the devotion is not materially contaminated.
One might worship Lord Krishna but with some material expectation, what's the difference if he/she worships Lord Siva with same material expectation?. Does it matter?
Jai shree gokulesh
Svetasvatara upanishad refers to Lord Shiva. as you mentioned Shiva means auspicious, Vishnu also means all-pervading. The scriptures are quite all over the place and there is no way to confirm anything really. As far as Shiva and Vishnu go, they are really the same one God. Any true knowledgeable person of Hindu Philosophy knows this. There are confusions found in all scriptures or maybe they are not confusions but confirmations of the Oneness of all deities. Certainly when speaking of God plz do not make the mistake of limiting God the all perfect intelligence to the level of our intelligence. When we become too obssessed with this idea of supremacy, the question whether we should go to a devi temple, or shiva temple or hanuman temple, or church troubles us as if God's presense is not found there and this is pure ignorance of God's vast nature. Instead of trying to know who or what God is its best first to understand God's nature. Lord Krishna in the Bhagavatam has clearly spoken that he can be worshiped in fire, water, earth, cows and even the living entities, what to speak of Shiva or others. Lord Shiva is one of the most beautiful depictions of God I have ever seen, there is no other God in the whole of Hinduism whom expresses symbolically of God's activities as Shiva. Nataraja alone displays creation, preservation, destruction and immortality simultaneously. The most important thing is to just practise sadhana and carry on with goal of self-realization.
Hare Krishna. Accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and Gauranga!
Your conclusions are not accepted as per guru, sadhu, sastra goes. Guru, sadhu, sastra would define your conclusions as mental concoction. You can not declare something with just reading one thing. You have got to look at things as a whole. And those who have read all Vedas A-Z(Madhvacharya,Ramanujacharya etc.) have declared Vishnu/Krishna as the Param Satya(Absolute Truth) who is even the source of Shiva.
And here is what sastra say about the true position of Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva:
Rig Veda 1.22.18
trini pada vi cakrame visnurgopa adabhyah
ato dharmani dharayan
TRANSLATION Vishnu, the Guardian, he whom none deceiveth, made three steps; thenceforth establishing his high decrees.
Rig Veda
asya devasya milhuso vaya visnoresasya prabhrthe havirbhih
vide hi rudro rudriyam mahitvam yasistam vartirasvinaviravat
With offerings I propitiate the branches of this swift-moving God, the bounteous Vishnu. Hence Rudra gained his Rudra-strength: O Asvins, ye sought the house that hath celestial viands.
<<<This verse makes it abundantly clear that Shiva derives his power from worship of Vishnu.
Taittiriya Samhita 5.5.1
aniravamo devatAnAM viShNuH paramaH
<<<This verse says that Vishnu is the supreme amongst devatas.
Srimad Bhagavatam 12.13.16
nimna-gānāṁ yathā gaṅgā
devānām acyuto yathā
vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ
purāṇānām idam tathā
Just as the Gaṅgā is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Śambhu [Śiva] the greatest of Vaiṣṇavas, so Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the greatest of all Purāṇas.
Srimad Bhagavatam 10.63.34
śrī-rudra uvāca
tvaṁ hi brahma paraṁ jyotir
gūḍhaṁ brahmaṇi vāṅ-maye
yaṁ paśyanty amalātmāna
ākāśam iva kevalam
Śrī Rudra said: You alone are the Absolute Truth, the supreme light, the mystery hidden within the verbal manifestation of the Absolute. Those whose hearts are spotless can see You, for You are uncontaminated, like the sky.
<<<Here Lord Shiva himself declares Krishna as Absolute Truth.
Brahma Samhita 5.45
kṣīraṁ yathā dadhi vikāra-viśeṣa-yogāt
sañjāyate na hi tataḥ pṛthag asti hetoḥ
yaḥ śambhutām api tathā samupaiti kāryād
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Śambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.
Srimad Bhagavatam 8.12.10
nāhaṁ parāyur ṛṣayo na marīci-mukhyā
jānanti yad-viracitaṁ khalu sattva-sargāḥ
yan-māyayā muṣita-cetasa īśa daitya-
martyādayaḥ kim uta śaśvad-abhadra-vṛttāḥ
O my Lord, I, who am considered to be the best of the demigods, and Lord Brahmā and the great ṛṣis, headed by Marīci, are born of the mode of goodness. Nonetheless, we are bewildered by Your illusory energy and cannot understand what this creation is. Aside from us, what is to be said of others, like the demons and human beings, who are in the base modes of material nature [rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa]? How will they know You?
>>>This is the main difference between Lord Krishna and Shiva. Lord Shiva is controlled by the energy of Krishna and is associated with the material mode of ignorance while Krishna is transcendental to the material modes and their controller.
Regarding other scriptures declaring demigods as Supreme, Padma Purana UTTARA KHANDA says:
alodya sarva-shastrani/vicarya ca punah punah
idam ekam sunispannam / dhyeyo narayanam sada
By scrutinizingly reviewing all the revealed scriptures and judging them again and again, it is now concluded that Lord Narayana is the Supreme Absolute Truth, and thus He alone should be worshipped."
vyamohaya caracarasya jagatas te te puranagamas
tah tarn eva hi devatah paramikah jalpantu kalpavadhi
siddhante punar eka eva bhagavan vishnuh samastagama-
vyapareshu vivecana-vyatikarah nltesu nischyate
There are many types of Vedic literatures and supplementary Puranas. In each of them there are particular demigods who are spoken of as the chief demigods. This is just to create an illusion for moving and nonmoving living entities. Let them perpetually engage in such imaginations. However, when one analytically studies all these Vedic literatures collectively, he comes to the conclusion that Lord Visnu is the one and only Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Your Servant,
Haha Srijon Bravo! I missed these spiritual wars! If thou wisheth verses from the Vedas, then indeed thou shall receive.
Rig Veda 2.33.9:
The RV 2.33.9 calls Rudra as "The Lord or Sovereign of the Universe" (īśānādasya bhuvanasya)
sthirebhiranghaih pururūpa ughro babhruh śukrebhih pipiśehiranyaih |
īśānādasya bhuvanasya bhūrerna vā u yoshad rudrādasuryam ||
'With firm limbs, multiform, the strong, the tawny adorns himself with bright gold decorations:
The strength of Godhead never departs from Rudra, him who is Sovereign of this world, the mighty.'
Rig Veda 6.49.10:
The RV 6.49.10 calls Rudra as " The Father of the Universe". (bhuvanasya pitarah)
bhuvanasya pitaram ghīrbhirābhī rudram divā vardhayā rudramaktau |
brhantam rshvamajaram sushmnam rdhagh ghuvema kavineshitās
'Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the Universe's Father.
Him great and lofty, blissful, undecaying let us call specially as the Sage impels us '
This Mahamritunjaya mantra is from Rig Veda (7-59-12), from Sukla Yajur Veda (3-60) and also from The Krishna Yajur Veda (Taittiriya Samhita) 1.8.6.i.
'OM. Tryambakam yajamahe
Sugandhim pushti-vardhanam
Urvarukamiva bandhanan
Mrityor mukshiya mamritat'
'OM. We worship and adore you, O three-eyed one, O Shiva. You are sweet gladness, the fragrance of life, who nourishes us, restores our health, and causes us to thrive. As, in due time, the stem of the cucumber weakens, and the gourd if freed from the vine, so free us from attachment and death, and do not withhold immortality.'
The Mahabharata, Book 13: Anusasana Parva: Anusasanika Parva: Section XIV
We all are aware of Lord Krishna's Penance to Mahadeva written in the Mahabharata thoe Krishna's prayer is quite long I will try to shorten the best I can. Krishna spoke thus after beholding Shankara these divine words:
"The blessed Vishnu said, 'I saluted Mahadeva, saying,--Salutations to thee, O thou that art the eternal origin of all things. The Rishis say that thou art the Lord of the Vedas. The righteous say that thou art Penance, thou art Sattwa, thou art Rajas, thou art Tamas, and thou art Truth. Thou art Brahman, thou art Rudra, thou art Varuna, thou art Agni, thou art Manu, thou art Bhava, thou art Dhatri, thou art Tashtri, thou art Vidhatri, thou art the puissant Master of all things, and thou art everywhere. All beings, mobile and immobile, have sprung from thee. This triple world with all its mobile and immobile entities, has been created by thee. The Rishis say that thou art superior to the senses, the mind, the vital breaths, the seven sacrificial fires, all others that have their refuge in the all-pervading Soul, and all the deities that are adored and worthy of adoration.Thou art all acts that creatures do, thou art the joy and sorrow that flow from those acts, thou art the absence of joy and sorrow, thou art that Ignorance which is the indestructible seed of Desire, thou art the high origin of Mind, thou art Puissance, and thou art Eternity. 2 Thou art the Unmanifest, thou art Pavana, thou art inconceivable, thou art the thousand-rayed Sun, thou art the effulgent Chit, thou art the first of all the topics, and thou art the refuge of life. 3 The use of words like Mahat, Soul, Understanding, Brahman, Universe, Sambhu, and Self-born and other words occurring in succession (in the Vedas), show that thy nature has been judged (by persons conversant with the Vedas) as identical with Mahat and Soul. Verily, regarding thee as all. Thou residest in
the heart of all creatures, and thou art adored by the Rishis as Kshetrajna. Thy arms and feet extend to every place, and thy eyes, head, and face are everywhere. Thou hearest everywhere in the universe, and thou stayest, pervading all things. Thou art the original effulgence (of the supreme Chit). (((Thou art Purusha))), and thou residest in the hearts of all things. They that know thee to be the one that is the (((Ancient Purusha))), or one that is pure Knowledge, or one that is the effulgent Chit, or one that is the highest refuge of all persons endued with intelligence, are certainly persons of great intelligence. After I had said these words, O Partha, unto Bhava, that dispeller of grief and pain, the universe, both mobile and immobile,
sent up a leonine shout (expressive of their approval of the correctness of my words).
And this is not even the complete version of Lord Krishna's Prayer! I guess i need not go further for now.
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