Hare Krishna ,
Well as we know the philosphy of Shankaracharya ,
Adviatva Vedanta is spreading all around the world now ,
and specially in India , How to preach in such environment ,
When advaitva vedanta will become a cult in their blood ,
it will be very difficult to tell them the reality , " THE KRISHNA CONCIOUSNESS " .
Please post your views !!
Hare Krishna. PAMHO. AGTSP.
/The same can be said of The Gita translation done to fit in for Vaishnavas./ Learn Sanksrit first then make a comment about Vaishnavas making a wrong translation.
I sometimes laugh when the Mayavadis try to explain their philosophy BECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE. It is a imaginary philosophy made by their imperfect minds. ALL VEDIC SCRIPTURES CONDEMN MAYADAVI PHILOSOPHY. If we are all God, why is there so much suffering and ignorance in the world? Why can't I lift up the Govardhana Hill like Krishna? Also, if we say that we are God but just temporarily covered by illusion, then illusion would be more powerful than God, which doesn't make any sense.
After reading all your replies, I see that you must have associated with Mayavadis, or read their blogs or books. You have been listening or reading from bogus guru's sampradayas. There are four Sampradayas from the beginning of the creation. One is called Brahma Sampradaya, and is coming down by disciplic succession from Brahma; another Sampradaya is coming down from Laksmi, called Sri Sampradaya; another is coming down from the Kumaras, they are known as Nimbarka Sampradaya; another Sampradaya is coming from Lord Siva, Rudra Sampradaya or Visnu Swami. The Impersonalist Sampradaya is not original, neither the Impersonalist Sampradaya or party can help us.
This is confirmed in Padma Purana as follows:
sampradāyavihīnā ye mantrāste niṣphalā matāḥ
ataḥ kalau bhaviśyanti catvāraḥ sampradāyinaḥ
Śrī-brahmā-rudra-sanakā vaiṣṇavā kṣitipāvanāḥ
catvāraste kalau bhāvya hyutkale puruṣottamāt
rāmānujaṃ śrī svicakre madhvācaryaṃ caturmukhaḥ
śrīviṣṇusvāminaṃ rudro nimbādityaṃ catuḥsanāḥ
All mantras which have been given (to disciples) not in an authorised Sampradāya are fruitless. Therefore, in Kali Yuga, there will be four bona-fide Sampradāyas. Each of them were ignaugurated by Śrī Devī and known as the Śrī Sampradāya, Lord Brahmā and known as the Brahmā Sampradāya,Lord Rudra and known as the Rudra Sampradāya; and the Four Kumāras and known as Sanakādi Sampradāya. Śrī Devī made Rāmānujācārya the head of that lineage. So too Lord Brahmā appointed Madhvācārya, Lord Rudra appointed Viṣṇusvāmī and the four Kumaras chose Nimbāditya (an epithet for Śrī Nimbārkācārya).
As for considering demigods equal to Lord Krishna or Lord Rama you have committed a serious offense. This shows your lack of knowledge. I beg you to go to Krishna and ask for His forgiveness.
You also say that Durga Devi is same as Krishna. But Durga Devi is Maya Devi. But your philosophy says that the Brahman(jiva) is covered by Maya so thats why it can not realize that it is God. But how is that possible??? SO YOU ARE SAYING BRAHMAN(MAYA) COVERS THE BRAHMAN(JIVA) SO THE BRAHMAN(JIVA) CAN NOT REALIZE BRAHMAN!!!???
Pranava, or omkara, is the chief vibration found in the Vedic hymns, and omkara is considered to be the sound form of the Supreme Lord. From omkara all Vedic hymns have emanated, and the world itself has also emanated from this omkara sound. The words tat tvam asi, also found in the Vedic hymns, are not the chief vibrations but are explanations of the constitutional position of the living entity. Tat tvam asi means that the living entity is a spiritual particle of the supreme spirit, but this is not the chief motif of the Vedanta or Vedic literatures. The chief sound representation of the Supreme is omkara.
All these faulty explanations of Vedanta-sutra are considered atheistic. Because the Mayavadi philosophers do not accept the eternal transcendental form of the Supreme Lord, they are unable to engage in real devotional service. Thus the Mayavadi philosopher is forever bereft of Krsna consciousness and Krsna's devotional service. The pure devotee of the Personality of Godhead never accepts the Mayavadi philosophy as an actual path to transcendental realization. The Mayavadi philosophers hover in the moral and immoral material atmosphere of the cosmic world and consequently are always engaged in rejecting and accepting material enjoyment. They have falsely accepted the nonspiritual as the spiritual, and as a result they have forgotten the spiritual eternal form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as well as His name, quality and entourage. They consider the transcendental pastimes, name, form and qualities of the Supreme to be products of material nature. Because of their acceptance and rejection of material pleasure and misery, the Mayavadi philosophers are eternally subjected to material misery.
The actual devotees of the Lord are always in disagreement with the Mayavadi philosophers. There is no way that impersonalism can possibly represent eternity, bliss and knowledge. Being situated in imperfect knowledge of liberation, the Mayavadi decries eternity, knowledge and bliss as materialism. Because they reject devotional service, they are unintelligent and unable to understand the effects of devotional service. The word jugglery they use in an attempt to amalgamate knowledge, the knowable and the knower simply reveals them to be unintelligent. The doctrine of by-product is the real purport of the beginning of Vedanta-sutra. The Lord is empowered with innumerable unlimited energies, and consequently He displays the by-products of these energies in different ways. Everything is under His control. The Supreme Lord is also the supreme controller, and He is manifested in innumerable energies and expansions."
Hare Krishna Srijon prabhuji. Dandavat pranam.
I agree devotional service to Lord is the foremost and the best way to attain liberation, however can you please advise what is the opinion about ISKCON devotees regarding worshiping the universal form of Lord Krishna?
AS you said impersonalism is not the right way, and impersonal means without any person like form.
Lord Krishna's universal form seems to me like an impersonal form. So does ISKCON condemn worship of Lord Krishna in universal form?. If yes then why?
Also on another note, Brhama kumaris worship only lingum/linga form of GOD and they call him Shiva , different from Lord Shankar (kailash one). All other gods inlcuding Shankar they claim it to be devtas.
So Brhma kumari followers be called mayavadis? atheists ? pasandis?
Hare Krishna .
Vedanta-sutra is compiled by Vyasadeva for the benefit of all living entities. It is through Vedanta-sutra that the philosophy of bhakti-yoga can be understood. Unfortunately, the Mayavadi commentary, Sariraka-bhasya, has practically defeated the purpose of Vedanta-sutra. In the Mayavadi commentary, the spiritual, transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been denied, and the Supreme Brahman has been dragged down to the level of the individual Brahman, the living entity. Both the Supreme Brahman and the individual Brahman have been denied spiritual form and individuality, although it is clearly stated that the Supreme Lord is the one supreme living entity and the other living entities are the many subordinate living entities. Thus reading the Mayavadi commentaries on Vedanta-sutra is always dangerous. The chief danger is that through these commentaries one may come to consider the living entity to be equal to the Supreme Lord. It is easy for a conditioned living entity to be falsely directed in this way, and once he is so directed he can never come to his actual position or enjoy his eternal activity in bhakti yoga. In other words, the Mayavadi philosophy has rendered the greatest disservice to humanity by promoting the impersonal view of the Supreme Lord. Thus Mayavadi philosophers deprive human society of the real message of Vedanta-sutra.
From the very beginning of Vedanta-sutra it is accepted that the cosmic manifestation is but an energetic display of the Supreme Lord. The very first aphorism (janmady asya) describes the Supreme Brahman as He from whom everything emanates. Everything is maintained by Him, and everything is dissolved in Him. Thus the Absolute Truth is the cause of creation, maintenance and dissolution. The cause of a piece of fruit is the tree; when a tree produces a piece of fruit, one cannot say that the tree is impersonal. The tree may produce hundreds and thousands of fruits, but it remains as it is. The fruit is produced, and it develops and stays for some time; then it dwindles and vanishes. This does not mean that the tree also vanishes. Thus from the very beginning the Vedanta-sutra explains the doctrine of by-products. These activities of production, maintenance and dissolution are carried out by the inconceivable energy of the Supreme Lord. The cosmic manifestation is a transformation of the energy of the Supreme Lord, although the energy of the Supreme Lord and the Supreme Lord Himself are nondifferent and inseparable. A touchstone may produce great quantities of gold in contact with iron, but still the touchstone remains as it is. Despite His producing huge material cosmic manifestations, the Supreme Lord is always in His transcendental form.
Mayavadi philosophy has the audacity to reject the purpose of Vyasadeva, as explained in the Vedanta-sutra, and to attempt to establish a doctrine of transformation which is totally imaginary. According to the Mayavadi philosophy, the cosmic manifestation is but the transformation of the Absolute Truth, and the Absolute Truth has no separate existence outside the cosmic manifestation. This is not the message of Vedanta-sutra. The transformation has been explained by Mayavadi philosophers as false, but it is not false. It is only temporary. The Mayavadi philosophers maintain that the Absolute Truth is the only truth and that this material manifestation known as the world is false. Actually this is not the case. The material contamination is not exactly false; because it is relative truth, it is temporary. There is a difference between something that is temporary and something that is false.
The conditioned soul is the marginal potency overpowered by the external potency. However, when the marginal potency comes under the jurisdiction of the spiritual potency, it becomes eligible for love of Godhead. The Supreme Lord enjoys six kinds of opulences, and no one can establish that He is formless or that He is without energy. If someone claims so, his contention is completely opposed to the Vedic instructions. Actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the master of ali energies. It is only the living entity, who is an infinitesimal part and parcel of Him, who is overpowered by the material energy.
In the Mundaka Upanisad it is stated that there are two birds sitting on the same tree, and one of these birds is eating the fruit of this tree while the other bird is simply witnessing his activities. Only when the bird eating the fruit looks at the other bird does he become free from all anxieties. This is the position of the infinitesimal living entity. As long as he is forgetful of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who witnesses all his activities, he is subjected to the threefold miseries. But when he looks to the Supreme Lord and becomes the Supreme Lord's devotee, he becomes free from all anxieties and material miseries. The living entity is eternally subordinate to the Supreme Lord; the Supreme Lord is always the master of all energies, whereas the living entity is always under the domination of the Lord's energies. Although qualitatively one with the Supreme Lord, the living entity has the tendency to lord it over material nature; however, being infinitesimal, he is actually controlled by material nature. Thus the living entity is called the marginal potency of the Lord.
Because the living entity tends to be controlled by material nature, he cannot at any stage become one with the Supreme Lord. If a living entity were equal to the Supreme Lord, there would be no possibility of his being controlled by material energy. In Bhagavad-gita the living entity is described as one of the energies of the Supreme Lord. Although inseparable from the energetic, energy is still energy, and it cannot be equal with the energetic. In other words, the living entity is simultaneously one and different from the Supreme Lord. Bhagavad-gita (7.4-5) clearly states that earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego are the eight elementary energies of the Supreme Lord and are of inferior quality, whereas the living entity is of superior quality. The Vedic literatures confirm the fact that the transcendental form of the Supreme Lord is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge.
The form of the Supreme Lord which is beyond the modes of material nature is not like the forms of this material world. His form is fully spiritual and cannot be compared with any material form. According to Vedic literatures, one who does not accept the spiritual form of the Supreme Lord is an atheist. Because Lord Buddha did not accept these Vedic principles, the Vedic teachers consider him to be an atheist. Although Mayavadi philosophers pretend to accept the Vedic principles, they indirectly preach Buddhist philosophy, or atheistic philosophy, and do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mayavadi philosophy is inferior to Buddhist philosophy, which directly denies Vedic authority. Because it is disguised as Vedanta philosophy, Mayavadi philosophy is more dangerous than Buddhism or atheism.
Hare Krishna. PAMHO. AGTSP.
"The Puranas are called supplementary Vedic literatures. Because sometimes in the original Vedas the subject matter is too difficult for the common man to understand, the Puranas explain matters simply by the use of stories and historical incidents. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.14.32) it is stated that Maharaja Nanda and the cowherd men and inhabitants of Vrndavana are very fortunate because the Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead, full of bliss, engages in His eternal pastimes as their friend.
According to Svetasvatara Upanisad, the apani-pado javano grahita mantra confirms that although Brahman has no material hands and legs, He nonetheless walks in a very stately way and accepts everything that is offered to Him. This suggests that He has transcendental limbs and is therefore not impersonal. One who does not understand the Vedic principles simply stresses the impersonal material features of the Supreme Absolute Truth and thus incorrectly calls the Absolute Truth impersonal. The impersonalist Mayavadi philosophers want to establish the Absolute Truth as impersonal, but this is in contradiction to Vedic literature. Although Vedic literatures confirm the fact that the Supreme Absolute Truth has multiple energies, the Mayavadi impersonalists still try to establish that the Absolute Truth has no energy. The fact remains, however, that the Absolute Truth is full of energy and is a person as well. It is not possible to establish Him as impersonal.
According to the Visnu Purana (6.7.61-3), the living entities are considered ksetrajna energy. Although the living entity is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and is fully cognizant, he nonetheless becomes entrapped by material contamination and suffers all the miseries of material life. Such living entities live in different ways in accordance to the degree of their entanglement in material nature. The original energy of the Supreme Lord is spiritual and nondifferent from the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead. The living entity is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord, and the material energy is called the inferior energy. Due to his material inebriety, the living entity in the marginal position becomes entangled with the inferior energy, matter. At such a time he forgets his spiritual significance, identifies himself with material energy and thereby becomes subjected to the threefold miseries. Only when he is free from such material contamination can he be situated in his proper position.
According to Vedic instructions, one should understand the constitutional position of the living entity, the position of the Lord, and the position of material energy in their interrelation. First of all, one should try to understand the constitutional position of the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead. That Supreme Lord has an eternal, cognizant, blissful body, and His spiritual energy is distributed as eternity, knowledge and bliss. In His blissful identity can be found His pleasure potency, and in His eternal identity He can be seen as the cause of everything. In His cognizant identity, He is the supreme knowledge. Indeed, the word krsna indicates that supreme knowledge. In other words, the Supreme Personality, Krsna, is the reservoir of all knowledge, pleasure and eternity. The supreme knowledge of Krsna is exhibited in three different energies--internal, marginal and external. By virtue of His internal energy, He exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia; by means of His marginal energy, He exhibits Himself as the living entities, and by means of His external energy He exhibits Himself as material energy. Behind each and every energetic exhibition there is the background of eternity, pleasure, potency and full cognizance.
Thats because those Gitas are not reliable or they have to translated incorrectly to fit the ideas of Mayavadis.
Hare Krishna. PAMHO. AGTSP.
I don't understand why you all considering all to be God. And Adi Sankara wasn't God. Adi Sankara was Lord Shiva.
If we were all God, why is there so much suffering and ignorance in the world? Also, if we say that we are God but just temporarily covered by illusion, then illusion would be more powerful than God, which doesn't make any sense.
It is said that brahman is unchangeable. According to your philosophy how then can it split into different living entities within the material world? And why should it do that? In Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krsna explains (15:7) that the living entities are eternal parts and parcels of the Supreme and states than individuality is an eternal principle (Bg 2:12).
The "Brahman" Mayavadis and you are using is different from Vyasadeva's Brahman.
Mayavadi Brahman is the Brahmajyoti(which is the spiritual effulgence of Krishna)
Vyasadeva's Brahman is Krishna, the Purusottama.
Because Mayavadis have no interest in Krishna, their Brahman categorically has no reality.
4 cows and 1 buffalo are never grouped as a herd of 5 cows, because a buffalo is not a cow. 5 cows means 5 cows.
If you read scriptures translated by Mayavadis you see they interpret Sanskrit words inaccurately to fit their own ideas.
Lord is "asarira." They say this means He has no sarira or body; but the root of the word sarira means "decay", so the word really refers to a body that decays, not simply a body.
Lord is "akarana." They say this means He has no senses; but this word really means that His senses are not energized by something else (e.g. as our material senses are energized by life energy) because He is without a source.
When asked to a Mayavadi who suffers in hell - soul or body?
1. Mayavadi may answer, "The body suffers only."
2. But the body is matter, is it not?
4. How can dead matter suffer?
5. Then it must be the soul that suffers.
6. Then you are saying Brahman suffers? But your philosophy says there's no suffering in Brahman.
These are just a few of the things that prove Mayavadi philosophy is completely illogical. Now Padma Purana is a reliable purana written by Vyasdeva Himself and is in the mode of goodness. So why can't you believe it? Our imperfect senses and mind can not judge a scripture and think its funny. Let alone Padma Purana, even Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita that only the lowly intelligent people consider God to be formless. Bhagavad Gita is the essence of all Vedic knowledge. So why can't you trust Krishna then? Upanishads translated by Mayavadis are completely incorrect because they interpret Sanskrit words inaccurately to fit their own ideas.
Hare Krishna !! Advaita has been misinterpreted. Advaita is another way of seeing / perceiving the Supreme. By advaita or non-duality we should understand that by quality/essence we are one with the Brahman but not by quantity as the Supreme Brahman encompasses all. When the Jiva unites with Paramatma, it doesn't feel any 'difference of separation', just like though our limbs and body parts are separated from each other, each assigned its own function, the limbs themselves don't feel separated as they belong to the body. It is our mind/intellect that sees them separately for the purpose of material observation, analysis and inspection. Tough to understand but true indeed. Such is the glory of Krishna who gives the impression of 'Advaita'. Just like its the same sugar that as a sugar candy can take any shape, its the same Brahman that takes different forms. A child may see each candy to be different but as we mature we see the 'Unity in Diversity'. Advaita is indeed seeing 'Unity in diversity'. Brahman as a whole doesn't suffer, but the Brahma that has taken a minute form (Jiva), takes on a suitable(subtle) body to suffer in hell or enjoy in heaven according to the Karma. So unless the Jiva realizes that it is part of Brahman, with the help of the triad - Bhakthi, Karma and Gyana - it cannot escape material bondage. Some translations of Gita, describe people who interpret God as formless as 'low class' or 'less intelligent', but the true essence is that the Supreme Personality Krishna prefers or is pleased when the Jivas realize the divine and beautiful form aspect that gives mutual pleasure, than a one-side pleasure where the Jiva is glad to be in effulgence than see who the source is !!
Hare Krishna Ashwani Kumar Pr,
PAMHO. AGTSP. AGTSG&SG.
Very good question and I can see your concern to help the people in general to become KC. We have seen how SP went to west in his 70s to preach the message of Krishna by the order of his Spiritual master and was successful also. We have also seen that in the past MANY of the god brothers of SP also went to west and could not establish what SP had done. This is because of the purity and sincerity of SP. SP, although preached whole world, always used to say that its all by the mercy of his Guru and he is just a parrot repeating his words. That should be the mood of a preacher. If we think we are going to preach some one, then every thing is gone for no good. Krishna will not be pleased with how many people become devotees by your preaching, but he will be pleased to see how much effort we are putting in making this kaliyuga people into devotees. Effort is important and not the results. So, don't worry about who is doing what and concentrate on what we need to do to preach this message.