I've been struggling with this dilhemma for a bit now. I am in a committed relationship with another woman and we intend to marry and have children. We are torn about whether we should invest in having children in one of three ways:(1) Adoption.(2) Artificial Insemination: I would be the biological mother, with an anonymous sperm donor.(3) in-vitro fertilization: We would both be the biological mothers, with an anonymous sperm donor. My partner's egg would be fertilized by a sperm donor and then the embryo would be injected into my womb.I read somewhere (I don't remember the source) that the Vedas say that adoption is not good. But why? I know that parents must have a god-like mindset while conceiving, but does artificial conception make it any different? Is it wrong to invest so much time and money to bring another child into the world when there are so many born without parents? Please advise on how to make a Krishna Conscious decision.Your aspiring servant,Chalice
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There is only one soul. Every single semen particle doesnt have to have a soul. But it has the potential to create life. Means its like a zipped file that can expand to a program at suitable circumstances. If all would have life then the mother would have as many children as Gandhari.
I totally Disagree Daman Krishna Prabhu. Each spam has a soul other wise it won't show symptoms of life (using his flagella it tries to escape bad environment). Swarup Damodar Swami (T.D.Singh) in his book says soul enter in material arrangement that's why it shows symptoms of life (there he was explaining DNA is Not reason of life ).
fun is that before devotees My life science teacher taught me spams has life. previously pure atheistic idea was boy gives some dead chemicals (they thought spam has no life) to girl and mixing with her dead chemicals she creates zygote which is again a dead chemical and after few month life is generated in fetus(which was totally against bhagvatam concept and it said abortion is not murder).
Now with the advancement, modern science too tending toward bhagbatam concepts (though unknowingly). Science now agrees from spam itself there is life, and abortion is murder too. (but still they say zygote and fetus is not conscious form of life. whereas bhagbatam says they are conscious and feel pain).
there are not cases of 100 children at a time (in human system) because when first span enters in ovum it creates a impenetrable layer that other spams may not enter. it is arrangement of Krishna because human mother cannot maintain multiple babies at her womb, and not even in social life.
Mohini Madhavi > Damana Krishna dasaJune 20, 2012 at 4:02pm
please accept my humble obeisances Damana Krishna Prabhu,
But then why is there so much talk about the consciousness at the time of conception? If there is one soul then when and in which circumstances it entered to the body of a father? It says that souls which come down from heaven they use grains as vehicles for entering the body, and we eat much grains at the same time. does it mean even though soul is one?
Can't those souls enter to the body without using grains a vehicle? They use grains as vehicle it means they can enter into the body only through one of 9 gates or i am doing mistake?
Then also it says that if conception is done in wrong time then Lord Shiva will put to the womb one of his followers...? Then how to understand this? Does it mean that that one soul who is already is in the body of a man will go in vain?
Please, do not take these questions as an argument but just i want to know the truth and understand things properly so will be able to share with my friends! We discussed this subject in the Russian forum but there also were some suspicions, not clear answers but were there good answers also.
Your servant,
Sharanagat > Mohini MadhaviJune 20, 2012 at 3:23pm
Mata jee, Hari Bol!
Not clear to me, please elaborate if it means that kid in a lesbian relationship is considered ok?
I find it against the spirit in which Prabhupada talks of family and social life. I do not think he ever approved other than man-woman marriage or sannyas. Mata jee, please clear my confusion.
i also heard that these relationships were there and will be there and are there but i never heard that they have to adopt children. It is the first time when i am hearing. But if parents are Krishna Conscious, if Matajis want to stay together and just practice Krishna Consciousness not braking 4 regulative principles then will look like two friends stay together and take care of a child in a Krishna Conscious way.
It is better if that orphan child becomes Krishna Conscious rather than be in the family of hog eaters, don't You think so Prabhuji?
Your servant,
Sharanagat > Mohini MadhaviJune 20, 2012 at 11:13pm
Hari Bol Mata jee!
First time in around 10 months, that comfortable feeling is not there on my end. Allow me to explain. A meat eater can change his ways, but how can someone change the above scenario?
If person is destined to be Prahlad, nothing matters. But how many of us are Mata jee?
i also disagree with You when You told that we get into grihastha ahsram for sense gratification. No. Usually matajis get married indeed to be protected from sense gratification especially in this Kali age where lots of lusty men and where only lust is advertised and feed by all kinds of media...
And i do not know how these two Matajis will protect themselves, it is a big question "?".
And i worry too much about the future of a child. What will be his/her position in the society? What will he/she say to her/his classmates about his/her parents? What will they say about him/her? Very difficult.
And child education needs the strictness of father and soft heart of a mother. Without strictness he/she will become very disrespectful person in the society....
Yes, in the Bhagavatam we read that such like people are there, let Krishna be merciful to them, when Lord Brahma contracted this universe some of his first sons attacked him.
And also from Mahabharata we know that Bhishma was killed by eunuch as i remember from the film.
And these people should not be criticized nor rejected from giving protection.
It so happened, and they should be properly protected equally as others.
But in Vedic culture we never hear that some one had child by putting embryo into the womb. It is really demoniac way of having child. As already senior Devotees told who knows in what consciousness they gave these embryos...
But if You adopt a child then better to adopt one who can make decisions already, who knows what is going on. Otherwise child will suffer too much in the society.
----------------------------
Yes, it is correct that being in Matajis' bodies You have desire to have a child but also we have to think of the welfare of that child also not only our selfish desire. It would be great You accept Gopal as Your child and besides to have a job in the kinder gardens and be with kids as a teacher or something like that.
You have first of all understand the difference between spiritual and material life. Between the standard of devotee and outside world. We are living according to sastras to purify our existence. Lord Krishna created woman and man to procreate progeny. Sex can be done with same sex, even plastic puppets, animals,dead bodies etc. That is bodily activity but will not produce children.Devotees are meant to perform garbhadhana samskara that is sanctified act of begetting KC children.Otherwise you can produce children from injections,bottles. We are not interested in bringing to world varna sankara or unwanted,impure population. Why to take anonymous sperm? What do you know whos sperm is it. Would you sleep with a stinky drunk person? Giving semen for money. But you would take his semen. Such acts are just on mental level and irresponsible. How you would be both biological mothers. Do you plan to give eachother birth to half of child. Your speach is illogical. The mother is the person who is carrying the child in womb. With your logic I am also a mother.
Better if you go for it take care of one already born. But first of all you have to spend sometime to get clear what you really want.
You have selective quotes on Vedas. You quote tritiya prakriti. But that are hemaphrodites who have both sexual organs. To do sex with same gender is not tritiya prakriti.
First I advice you to read Srila Prabhupada's books to understand what his mood was. Here is no need to dicuss this matter. It is like devotee asking if he can eat meat,drink,etc. The answer is no,but if you cannot do it better be quiet and serve Krishna. Those who propagate their foolishness in name of spiritual life are really confused.
Replies
There is only one soul. Every single semen particle doesnt have to have a soul. But it has the potential to create life. Means its like a zipped file that can expand to a program at suitable circumstances. If all would have life then the mother would have as many children as Gandhari.
I totally Disagree Daman Krishna Prabhu. Each spam has a soul other wise it won't show symptoms of life (using his flagella it tries to escape bad environment). Swarup Damodar Swami (T.D.Singh) in his book says soul enter in material arrangement that's why it shows symptoms of life (there he was explaining DNA is Not reason of life ).
fun is that before devotees My life science teacher taught me spams has life. previously pure atheistic idea was boy gives some dead chemicals (they thought spam has no life) to girl and mixing with her dead chemicals she creates zygote which is again a dead chemical and after few month life is generated in fetus(which was totally against bhagvatam concept and it said abortion is not murder).
Now with the advancement, modern science too tending toward bhagbatam concepts (though unknowingly). Science now agrees from spam itself there is life, and abortion is murder too. (but still they say zygote and fetus is not conscious form of life. whereas bhagbatam says they are conscious and feel pain).
there are not cases of 100 children at a time (in human system) because when first span enters in ovum it creates a impenetrable layer that other spams may not enter. it is arrangement of Krishna because human mother cannot maintain multiple babies at her womb, and not even in social life.
please accept my humble obeisances Damana Krishna Prabhu,
But then why is there so much talk about the consciousness at the time of conception? If there is one soul then when and in which circumstances it entered to the body of a father? It says that souls which come down from heaven they use grains as vehicles for entering the body, and we eat much grains at the same time. does it mean even though soul is one?
Can't those souls enter to the body without using grains a vehicle? They use grains as vehicle it means they can enter into the body only through one of 9 gates or i am doing mistake?
Then also it says that if conception is done in wrong time then Lord Shiva will put to the womb one of his followers...? Then how to understand this? Does it mean that that one soul who is already is in the body of a man will go in vain?
Please, do not take these questions as an argument but just i want to know the truth and understand things properly so will be able to share with my friends! We discussed this subject in the Russian forum but there also were some suspicions, not clear answers but were there good answers also.
Your servant,
Mata jee, Hari Bol!
Not clear to me, please elaborate if it means that kid in a lesbian relationship is considered ok?
I find it against the spirit in which Prabhupada talks of family and social life. I do not think he ever approved other than man-woman marriage or sannyas. Mata jee, please clear my confusion.
Your servant,
Sharanagat
i also heard that these relationships were there and will be there and are there but i never heard that they have to adopt children. It is the first time when i am hearing. But if parents are Krishna Conscious, if Matajis want to stay together and just practice Krishna Consciousness not braking 4 regulative principles then will look like two friends stay together and take care of a child in a Krishna Conscious way.
It is better if that orphan child becomes Krishna Conscious rather than be in the family of hog eaters, don't You think so Prabhuji?
Your servant,
Hari Bol Mata jee!
First time in around 10 months, that comfortable feeling is not there on my end. Allow me to explain. A meat eater can change his ways, but how can someone change the above scenario?
If person is destined to be Prahlad, nothing matters. But how many of us are Mata jee?
Your servant,
Sharanagat
Hare Krishna !!!
24*7*365*age . Where did you get that calculation from? Nobody in this earth have that capability. :) :) . Just kidding.
Jai shree gokulesh
is it true that HH Hridayananda Goswami Maharaj was not against such like relationship?
Is that web site is authoritative?
Might be he was not against but he did not told to have children. That is the big "?"
:(
my humble obeisances Prabbu KA Prabhu,
i also disagree with You when You told that we get into grihastha ahsram for sense gratification. No. Usually matajis get married indeed to be protected from sense gratification especially in this Kali age where lots of lusty men and where only lust is advertised and feed by all kinds of media...
--------------------------------------------------
And i do not know how these two Matajis will protect themselves, it is a big question "?".
And i worry too much about the future of a child. What will be his/her position in the society? What will he/she say to her/his classmates about his/her parents? What will they say about him/her? Very difficult.
And child education needs the strictness of father and soft heart of a mother. Without strictness he/she will become very disrespectful person in the society....
-----------------------------------------------------
Yes, in the Bhagavatam we read that such like people are there, let Krishna be merciful to them, when Lord Brahma contracted this universe some of his first sons attacked him.
And also from Mahabharata we know that Bhishma was killed by eunuch as i remember from the film.
And these people should not be criticized nor rejected from giving protection.
It so happened, and they should be properly protected equally as others.
But in Vedic culture we never hear that some one had child by putting embryo into the womb. It is really demoniac way of having child. As already senior Devotees told who knows in what consciousness they gave these embryos...
But if You adopt a child then better to adopt one who can make decisions already, who knows what is going on. Otherwise child will suffer too much in the society.
----------------------------
Yes, it is correct that being in Matajis' bodies You have desire to have a child but also we have to think of the welfare of that child also not only our selfish desire. It would be great You accept Gopal as Your child and besides to have a job in the kinder gardens and be with kids as a teacher or something like that.
Please forgive me!
Your servant,
Pamho.AGTSP.
You have first of all understand the difference between spiritual and material life. Between the standard of devotee and outside world. We are living according to sastras to purify our existence. Lord Krishna created woman and man to procreate progeny. Sex can be done with same sex, even plastic puppets, animals,dead bodies etc. That is bodily activity but will not produce children.Devotees are meant to perform garbhadhana samskara that is sanctified act of begetting KC children.Otherwise you can produce children from injections,bottles. We are not interested in bringing to world varna sankara or unwanted,impure population. Why to take anonymous sperm? What do you know whos sperm is it. Would you sleep with a stinky drunk person? Giving semen for money. But you would take his semen. Such acts are just on mental level and irresponsible. How you would be both biological mothers. Do you plan to give eachother birth to half of child. Your speach is illogical. The mother is the person who is carrying the child in womb. With your logic I am also a mother.
Better if you go for it take care of one already born. But first of all you have to spend sometime to get clear what you really want.
You have selective quotes on Vedas. You quote tritiya prakriti. But that are hemaphrodites who have both sexual organs. To do sex with same gender is not tritiya prakriti.
First I advice you to read Srila Prabhupada's books to understand what his mood was. Here is no need to dicuss this matter. It is like devotee asking if he can eat meat,drink,etc. The answer is no,but if you cannot do it better be quiet and serve Krishna. Those who propagate their foolishness in name of spiritual life are really confused.
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