Hare Krishna 🙏
The spiritual world is eternal. There, the Lord is enjoying the pastimes with His associates for eternity. These associates are eternally liberated beings. So there is no point in saying that there are eternally bound beings. Right? Then who are we? How did we fall into this material world?
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Hare Krishna,
There are two kinds of living entities — nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The nitya-siddha never forgets his relationship with the Supreme Personality, whereas the nitya-baddha is always conditioned, even before the creation. He always forgets his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. ( CC 5.113)
Sadhana Siddhas are those nitya baddha devotees who are cultivating the bhakti and doing devotional service to become perfected thereby when perfected get elevated to the Goloka or Vaikuntha loka.
Goloka and Vaikuntha lokas once reached there is no question of falling back to Material world. Unless Lord wants you go back to participate in some leela along with HIM.
Just like when the Parshads ( Jaya Vijaya ) who are the drwarpals of Vaikuntha they didn't allow Sanat Kumars to enter the Vaikuntha the Sanat kumaras felt insulted and they cursed them to fall back to Material world. But when they pleaded to Lord that they were doing their duty and excuse them for this. Lord said they have to go to material world either become Lord's devotee for 6 life times or can chose to become against Lord for 3 life times and then come back. They chose to become demons and complete the curse in less time and chose to die at the hands of Lord so that they get back to their original positions faster. They fell to earth and forgot about their position became demons and fought against Lord but the catch is they were fighting with Lord all 3 life times and they got Killed by Lord also. Plus they were being a major part of the Lord's leela in all the three life times. Luckily Lord came for them to take them back. ( hiranyakashyap- hiranyaksha ( satyuga) ., Ravana- Kumbhakarna ( treta yuga)., Shishupala- Dantavaktra). So, though they fell down and became demons they were a part of leela of Lord).
The Nityasiddha devotees came to earth along with Lord the whole entourage - the gopi's, gopas came to play their parts when Krishna came down.
Similarly during Chaitanaya leela also you are finding the same group came back to participate in the leela along with Lord Sri Chaitanaya Mahaprabhu.
Some were Sadhana Siddhas who also got chance to become elevated during the presence of Lord Chaitanaya.
There is one more catergory also-
Kripa Siddha devotees.
That is kṛpa-siddha. Kṛpa-siddha means... Just like Nityānanda Prabhu, He wanted that these Jagāi-Mādhāi must be delivered. There was no sādhana. They never followed any rules and regulation. They were thieves and rogues, very fallen condition. But Nityānanda Prabhu wanted to show an example that "I shall deliver these two brothers. Never mind they are so fallen." That is called kṛpa-siddha. So we should always remember there are three categories = nitya-siddha, sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. But when they become siddha, perfect, by any process, they are on the same level. There is no distinction. (SB 7.9.7)
Now the position of Nitya badha is like those who have misused the free will given by Lord. They have been living here in the material world since innumerable life time taking birth dying taking birth and dying.. They can get a chance like Suddenly meeting a saint like Narada get some Kripa siddha and do some sadhana and become perfected in and get Sadhana Siddha and elevated to Goloka. Or they want to thoroughly enjoy and misue the freewill and eternally live here in material world as Nitya badhhas it is their choice.
Nitya siddhas are always with Krishna they wont ever fall back as they are eternally present there. Only come to Earth for spreading the glories of Lord and go back to Godhead ( Like the Panchatttva) they accompany Lord in the leela and go back with Lord to Goloka.
Nitya Badhha jiva's are Marginal potencies of Lord they are part and Parcel of Lord but they forgot that they belong to Lord. If some guru or a saint gives some Kripa to them they can get back to Godhead by doing sadhana and when the Sadhana gets siddhi they can attain permanant abode.
When did we fall into this material world it is not easy to tell as 84 lakh birth's in various species we have been into ( some times we became fish, sometimes snake sometimes we became ants ) so many countless bodies we have taken up and circulating here because.. we have been living, dying, killing and eating.. other living creatures for existence and then we were hurting people.. getting curses and moving around in cycles. This is vicious cycle never ending. Let us say you got to become a snake and you bit a saint.. saint cursed you to become a tree.. you became a tree.. then you gave shade to a sage.. sage blessed you to get to human life. In human birth you killed and ate a cow.. then for that sin.. you went back to become a insect in the stool.. again..cycle starts. It was never ending. This is only birth we got human life. let us utilize it properly and do some sadhana ( because in this human birth we can glorify Lord in animal birth we couldn't do any devotional service nor we could do any chanting).
Hopeless that we will get back to Godhead if we hurt some saintly beings or do some paap karma knowingly or unknowingly. NOW, I AM FEELING REALLY SAD AFTER WRITING THIS.
Unknowingly and Knowingly we are doing so many mistakes.
Today when I did parana for Ekadashi vrat I told Lord .. Oh Lord Please first of all Thank You for making me able to complete this Bhaimi ekadashi vrat.
Secondly.. I want the result of this ekadashi vrat fal to be offered to all the insects that I keep killing when I walk on the earth. Knowingly and unknowingly. ( mosquitos, ants insects, spiders etc.) and let them all get a human birth to be able to chant your Holy Name.
Because I do so many unknowingly and knowingly so many sinful karma. Sins are inneumerable.. In this way I can never complete this viscious cycle.
I also hurt many people. Sometimes I say things very causually but people get offended. I try to say sorry to them but some I feel .. It was just casual and but they consider it as an offense who knows what is going on in other's minds. But whatever it is-
I have no craving to be in Goloka. But even in this world if we are humans ( not birds or insects) and have mouth to glorify Lord and chant His holy name that means we are in Krishna's good books Which is nice to know.
Only barometer to test that if we are Loved by Krishna is How much are we able to chant. The day we did some offense we cannot chant nor we cannot do any devotional activities and simple we live life for the sake of completing ( eating , sleeping, mating and defending). There is not much any purpose of life.
Srila Prabhupada said at one place that instead of asking when did we fall... We must be interested in how to get back to Godhead.
He gave this example. ( I am not able to get the exact lecture in which he told.) but the example is like this-
One person fell into a pit and is crying out for help... will never ask the person who came to help him out.. Please tell me how did I fell??
he will say .hey.. please help me out I am fallen pull me up quickly. isn't it?
so we are somehow fallen into the pit. Our only interest must be how should I come out of this.. not why did I fall into the pit. isn't it? ( this is the example quoted by Srila Prabhupada).
A long-debated issue. Here are references to sastras and acaryas:
https://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/tattvas1.htm#2
Hari Hari
ys J.
Hare Krishna prabhuji
gopinath, ami to’ tomara jana
tomare chariya, samsara bhajinu,
bhuliya apana-dhana
0 Gopinatha, I am Your devotee, but having abandoned You and thus having forgotten my real treasure, I have worshiped this mundane world (Gopinath part 3 verse 4 , by srila bhaktivinod thakur)
bhuliya tomare, samsare asiya,
peye nana-vidha byatha
tomara carane, asiyachi ami,
bolibo duhkehera katha
O Lord, forgetting You and coming to this material world, I have experienced a host of sins and sorrows.Now I approach Your lotus feet and submit my tale of woe. (verse 1 from bhuliya tomara by srila bhaktivinod thakur)
we can see here that srila bhaktivinod thakur in both songs sings about "forgetting " God.
Krsna is indeed enjoying eternal passtimes with eternally liberated souls in golok. And we are also part of him so he also comes to this earth to take us back by giving us knowledge, his pastimes, path of bhakti.
We (conditioned souls) actually fell down to material World due to being attracted to this world and due to our want of enjoying the material nature, external energy of lord.
We have forgotten our eternal relationship with krsna thus we are loitering in this perilous world.
We belong to spiritual nature of lord , but being covered by this material body and identifying ourselves as this body " I am Indian, I am American, I am human, I am man" these have kept us away from lord. This Krishna tell us to simply surrender unto him.
sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear
Being caught by the shackles of māyā (external energy of the lord) we are engaged in frutive works with entangle us in action reaction chain, and thus compells us to take birth again and again, it is not possible to get out simply by frutive works.
punarapi jananaM punarapi maraNaM
punarapi jananii jaThare shayanam.h .
iha saMsaare bahudustaare
kRipayaa.apaare paahi muraare (verse 21 of bhaj govindam)
Born again, death again, birth again to stay in the mother’s womb ! It is indeed hard to cross this boundless ocean of samsara. Oh Murari ! Redeem me through Thy mercy.
so we are engaged in this path of bhakti (atleast trying to) so that by reviving our constitutional and eternal love for God (krsna prem) , and go back to home back to Godhead.
Hare Krsna
Then who are we?
Majority of living beings in material world are those that are caught in cycle of birth and death in this material world.
How did we fall into this material world?
The following text from Srila Prabhupada gives a generic answer to this
The question may be raised as to why the living entities have fallen by chance into different conditions of life.
To answer this question, we first have to understand that there cannot be any influence of chance for the living entities; chance is for nonliving entities.
According to the Vedic literatures, living entities have knowledge, and thus they are called cetana, which means “in knowledge.” Their situation in different conditions of life, therefore, is not accidental. It is by their choice, because they have knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says, “Give up everything and just surrender unto Me.” This process of realizing the Supreme Personality of Godhead is open for everyone, but still it is the choice of the particular living entity whether to accept or reject this proposal. In the last portion of the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Kṛṣṇa very plainly says to Arjuna, “My dear Arjuna, now I have spoken everything to you. Now you may choose to accept it or not.” Similarly, the living entities who have come down to this material world have made their own choice to enjoy this material world. It is not that Kṛṣṇa sent them into this world. The material world was created for the enjoyment of living entities who wanted to give up the eternal service of the Lord to become the supreme enjoyer themselves. According to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, when a living entity desires to gratify his senses and forgets the service of the Lord, he is given a place in the material world to act freely according to his desire, and therefore he creates a condition of life in which he either enjoys or suffers. We should definitely know that both the Lord and the living entities are eternally cognizant. There is no birth and death for either the Lord or the living entities. When creation takes place, this does not mean that the living entities are created. The Lord creates the material world to give the conditioned souls a chance to elevate themselves to the higher platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. ( Krsna the Personality of Godhead Chapter 87)
Hare Krsna
Hare krsna 🙏
So once upon a time all of us ( the enterally bound bound beings) lived in the spiritual world alike the enterally liberated beings are living. Isn't it ?
Hare Krsna
I am not 100% sure about it. One reason why I am not sure is because the living entities being part of Sri Krsna are eternel which means they are beyond time.
Time itself is an impersonal manifestation of Sri Krsna within material world. Time in spiritual world is not like time in material world. So the term "once upon a time" is not applicable in usual sense since jiva is beyond time.
According to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, when a living entity desires to gratify his senses and forgets the service of the Lord, he is given a place in the material world to act freely according to his desire, and therefore he creates a condition of life in which he either enjoys or suffers
Based on the above statement above, it is clear that prior to being fully conditioned within material world,
1. the living entities did not have inherent material desire for sense gratification and
2. The living entities were fully aware of their service (and situated in their service) to Sri Krsna
Hare Krsna
Are you ok with the answers given by devotees for our falldown ?