Hare Krishna everyone,
I had a question in my mind, which was going on my head from a quite long time, so i thought I should discuss here with devotees who are having vast experience in KC Movement.
I really don't understand that why we(conditional souls) after coming into KC movement, start looking for love outside us through marriage? Although we know that only Krishna's unconditional love can fulfill our heart fully.
I understand that marriage is also a part of life, which plays a very big role in one's life but when I observe people here in the material world and people at our KC movement, I feel no difference except one's mindset towards what a devotee goes and what a normal person goes.
To be more specific for yours better understanding, the difference, I am taking about is that i have seen that even female devotees have basic requirements like a normal materialistic women before getting married like she want her future partner to be financially strong, have a good career, so that they can provide good facilities to their kid. If, that female devotee is also thinking like this, then what's the difference b/w her mindset and a mindset of a normal women? and how can such a female devotee can claim herself the title of devotee? if she want her groom to be a good devotee+ a good career settled person.
Then where the love is there? That the both partners talk about. We do worship Radha Krishna with our all hearts day and night right? and what we are learning from their teachings and our acharyas teachings, if we are not implementing their teachings in our lives.
True love is also about doing sacrifice, true love is beyond skin love, true love is also about crossing borders for your beloved, true love is all about upliftment of other person and much more. But true love is not so cheap, so as the God's love.
I haven't seen the above symptoms in today's girls, even if they claim themselves a spiritual person.
And if the purpose of getting married in KC movement is to procreate the child, which in future will become a Krishna devotee, then why we are begetting more than 1 child? One should be thankful to God for getting a devotee child and the partner's should be satisfied enough with it, isn't? Then why they begget more than 1 child? Who told them to do it, is it God or their spiritual master?
But, the reality is something that just because we are such a fall down people and very much lusty, that we take advantage of our scriptures and give excuses all our life.
This world has witnessed a deep devoted women like Meera bai, lalleshwari and Akka Mahadevi? who had sacrificed everything for their beloved God, that they never gave a tinge of attention to lust, even if they were married.
I hope, the above doubt or my thought won't offend senior devotees ( especially married ones) but I think we need to accept the reality as it is and should know that only Krishna's love can fulfill us in the world, nothing else.
Hare Krishna
Replies
Hare Krsna
Are you married ?
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
"In this age, the institution of marriage will degenerate. Indeed, already a marriage certificate is sometimes cynically rejected as "a mere piece of paper." Forgetting the spiritual purpose of marriage and misunderstanding sex to be the goal of family life, lusty men and women directly engage in sexual affairs without the troublesome formalities and responsibilities of a legal relationship. Such foolish people argue that "sex is natural". But if sex is natural, pregnancy and childbirth are equally natural. And for the child it is certainly natural to be raised by a loving father and mother and in fact to have the same father and mother throughout his life. Psychological studies confirm that a child needs to be cared for by both his father and his mother, and thus it is obviously natural for sex to be accompanied by a permanent marriage arrangement. Hypocritical people justify unrestricted sex by saying "it is natural," but to avoid the natural consequence of sex-pregnancy-they use contraceptives, which certainly do not grow on trees. Indeed, contraceptives are not at all natural. Thus hypocrisy and foolishness abound in the age of Kali."
Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.2.5 purport
Hare Krishna Prabhu ji I am very fallen devotee(sacchi mein) but I feel my views can help that is why I am sharing them actually Prabhu ji ..
in swayamvar of Sita Maiya Prabhu ji was the condition that only the person who lifts the Lord Shiva's bow will be able to marry Sita Maiya..personally prabhu I think any sensible Women must like look at that material condition because perception that love is no boundation it should be unconditional this is seen in movies n stories...looking at the material condition is not wrong, only looking at the material condition is..... the point is basically that Prabhu ji like we saw in the case of Lord Shri Ram n Sita Maiya that even when Lord Ram had a loss The Kingdom,wealth Sita Maiya didn't left and Seeta Maiya kept serving with the same intensity rather increased... which she was doing previously infact the love between Sitamarhi and Lord Ram grew further as they progress...i feel similarly should be there in this world also..I hope you understood my point Prabhu.. please forgive for any error..
Hare KRsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
We are aspiring to become devotees, does that mean we have no materail desires? Then there is no need for marraige itself na. The thing is - we add Krsna to our life and not vice versa. If we can love our parents, siblings and be in Krsna Consciousness, then what is the issue in loving a spouse?
Regarding matajis looking for financial security in a marraige, isnt it natural? To maintain a family, money is required. For that, financial security is desired. Even devotees are able to do so many programs and sevas in 2 circumstances - 1) they are financially secure, 2) they are fully dependent on the temple for their maintenance - they are full time devotees. Srila Prabhupada had mentioned that grihastas should earn and help to maintain a temple. So going by that, it would be better to earn outside and support the temple, right?
Just to tell you, I have had enough devotee prabhujis walk upto me and tell me - I want to marry a devotee girl. No expectations, she should stay in the house and take care of my parents. Isnt that exactly what a karmi wants?
There have been other prabhujis who actually look for financially independent matajis, so that they dont have to earn. They can laze around and do little bit of KC services, and of course the wife has to manage earning, her KC and the house, all by herself. When these prabhus are asked to chip in the housework, they start quoting from scriptures on how managing a house is a wife's responsibility.
If you analyse, both men and women expect in a marraige, but they think that because they are in KC, they have no expectations. Actually, what they consider as no expectations translates into assumptions. That is where maintaining a marraige becomes a challenge.
To digress from this train of discussion a little - I had heard in one lecture of HH Bhakti Caru Swami maharaj in Kolkata once - why do people marry? Nobody needs to be taught to fall in love, it happens to us naturally. Why is it so? Because the way a man and woman can naturally relate to each other, that same way - soul can relate to supersoul - Bhagavan in the same natural manner. The only thing that needs to be done is ceto darpan marjanam - clearing the consciousness. If you read books like Ujjwal Nilamani, it talks about the various stages of prema that gopis feel towards Krsna. When I read about it a little, I could understand/ relate to those feelings because I am a wife. So this relationship of marraige is given to us for us to understand our conjugal relationship with Krsna and try to develop it.
I hope I have been able to explain.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare Krishna Maataji,
Dandwat Pranam
Since, you are a senior devotee and a counsellor from a long ago in this forum, I do respect your valuable suggestions. But the problem is that everyone has their own experience and perspective towards different things in life.
The answer you provided for the question on the thread, I was discussing didn't satisfied me at all. Not, bcoz you have wrong perception about some subject or vica-versa. It's just bcoz everyone sees reality with their own mind and with one's life experience.
Maataji, you are right your way and your thoughts about the marriage is mostly practical in adjacent with today's world. I do agree with you as marriage is very big responsibilty and many things needs to be taken care of simultaneously.
But, talking about my own view point about marriage or relationship, I can say I am man who thinks out of the box about it, since it has been in me naturally and more often, I've learning it and trying to implement it in my life. Love is an art, which needs to be learned and applied rightly in one's life. And again, plz think for a sec, how can something so high can be so cheap or can be taken grantedly. We don't need to learn love from some Love Gurus or from celebrities around us. It is something, that God has naturally infused in all of us, right from our birth. But, we people don't know how to use it and apply it correctly.
All, our Shastras, Acharyas and All-time famous Saints in India (some abroad too) has experienced that love through connecting their own Soul (Aatma) with Supersoul (God). And we all know that our soul is part of supersoul and that same supersoul resides in each of us as Paramaatma. Also, these self-realized personalities has taught to this world about what the real love is and that is what a real bliss is, which satisfies one's hollow heart.
We all people here in this forum belongs to Krishna Conscious Movement and We all worship Radha Krishna with our all hearts, right? And Radha Krishna's love is so much pure and so much high/transcendental, then why we devotees (I am a neophyte, I am still learning to be devotee) do compromise on love, when it comes to our relations. Radha Krishna never taught this world to do compromise on love, what is highest than love in this world? Infact, Radha Krishna had taght that what actual love is and what isn't. In love, people do cross all the barriers of so-called society.
And like you said, that Maataji's need financial stability for one's security, kids and family, then you tell where is love here in this whole episode? This is give-take business, somewhow. And normal girls, do expect that if they are earning 1 lac per anum, their partners should earn 6 to 7 lacs PA for their finanical need and family support. Then, you tell, what makes a devotee maataji's different than these karmi girls? And I have discussed these in detail with other devotees, they also speak the same way, like you said (I am not saying them wrong, but it shouldn't be like this).
When, we says and if someone says to us that we are Krishna Devotee, don't you think that a this 'title of devotee' should be the highest and should be the out of box in the society. We should be feeling proud of ourselves that we are Krsna's devotee and Krsna's devotee should be exactly same as what is described in the books of Srila Prabhupad.
I am not saying that we can can imitate lord 100% exactly and can love our spouse, the same way Radha and Krishna used to love each other. After, all we are conditioned souls and we are getting operated our conscious in the hospital of Iskcon temples. But, I can't see that sacrifice of today's devotee girls when it comes their marriages. As they are also putting the same conditions like a normal karmi girl. I am not saying every devotee girl is same, there can be exceptions, but such are rare of rarest. Radha-Krishna's love gives freedom to other partner, doing sacrifice for other and the most important upliftiing other person, even after 1000 faults.
So, coming to the summary, Maataji, all I am saying, atleast we can learn 1% of What Radha and Krishna has taught to this world about love.
Now, you can judge me as per your way and I won't mind it honesltly, but I really don't like to be a part of crowd. I do conisder Radha and Krishna as my Spiritual Mother and Father and their love is selfless and beyond skin pleasure.
Hare Krishna,
Your Insignificant Servant.
Prabhu, you are right. Husband wife relationship is the most conditional relationship. It is nowhere near pure love. We do not compare it to Radha Krsna love at all. We marry for the purpose of helping each other progress in Krsna Consciousness.
Husband and wife also grow to love each other over time, beyond the physical pleasure of a marraige. They learn to genuinely care for each other. Actually, they are the best friend for each other chosen by God for each person.
For the record, I have seen profiles in devotee website where prabhujis are looking for SIZE 0 matajis proposals. So much for being Krsna Conscious.
Hare Krishna prabhuji,
I am really enjoying discussing with you this and thank you for guiding me.
Are you married? It seems to be
Yes, you are right that Krishna and Srila Prabhupada himself through Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam has clearly instructed us that the sex life done within religious chords is fine and acceptable but not sacred. Prabhuji, again I am asking just think for a sec, how can lord can sanctify something cheap to be sacred. And even if it is sacred, then where is the portion or tinge of love during that process, even if one chants 50 rounds.
Which things can you call as love in the whole day of the devotee couple? Yes, i understand that if one binds in religious marriage, than society will be healthy and won't be filthy. man's and women's relationship needs to be more than bed.
And Krishna and Srila Prabhupada out of mercy has allowed religious marriage just like conditioned souls like us to keep our senses under control.
And what about those sections of society who don't get married due to xyz reasons? Don't they get love in their whole life?
Prabhuji, why we all came to Krishna Consciousness, so that we all can revive our relationship with Krishna ultimately, isn't and can deeply can get absorbed in full spiritual conscious.
Prabhuji, my heart is not allowing me to compare Radha Krishna's pure love with our cheap love, if we are devotees.
Hare Krsna
"Prabhupada has clearly instructed us that the sex life done within religious chords is fine and acceptable but not sacred."???
Sex life done within religious chords is sacred. Please don't misquote. Try to read carefully and see where you went wrong. It took me quite a while to type out nearly every reference from the books and letters. Just read it like three times, for Prabhupada.
Hari Bol
Hari Bol
Hare Krishna Prabhuji,
I do appreciate that you took time to write the quotes regarding the question I asked for. I am thankful for that.
But, now it will be the last message from myside on this discussion as I am really tired discussing these and I cannot get satisfied at any cost by the answers I get previously and now by your current message, you are sounding me stubborn (sorry for saying but I have to be honest).
You are saying that Srila Prabhupada has said in his letters as well as in Srimad Bhagavatam that sex done within religious chords is sacred. No, prabhuji, cheap thing cannot be sacred at any cost and even if Srila Prabhupada has said it to be sacred, then he just said out of his causeless mercy, bcoz he knew very well that we conditioned souls can't live without having sex or we will always be lusty, no matter what.
Also, Prabhu, you have quoted me quotes from Srimad Bhagavatam where it has been justified that religious sex is sacred, right? Have you read quotes from the Srimad Bhagavatam where it has been clearly stated that one should stop sex after begetting one child + quotes which says that how miserable is sex life is. What about those quotes.
Is God's love that cheap that he will attract audience towards him by allowing something cheap to be sacred.
And please tell me what is the last duty of the devotee when he/she is finished with all material satisfaction and finally he/she enjoys the transcedenal bliss through devotional activities.
What can fill the empty heart of a devotee in the end? A religious sex life or chanting the name of lord and connecting with him.
Please do read the biography of Meera bai and lalleshwari and you will understand somehow, what a true love is about?
Please be open-minded prabhuji.
And you didn't understood my question? I asked can one can experience love only after marriage? What about those people who don't get married in their lives? Don't they receive and experience love?
Hare Krsna
sex may have become cheap due to contraceptives, but the idea is to bring forth a child. When you raise a child and start paying for the school fees, you will realize how cheap it is. You are not considering children at all in your arguments and you are calling it cheap, where it has been clearly stated that even the pleasure of sex when it is used for it's real purpose is sacred. I have to standby Prabhupada, stubborn or not!
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