Hare Krishna 🙏

My question is if a person has deep faith and surrendered unto the divine knowledge given by Srila Prabhupada ji in his books and following all the regulative principles including 16 rounds chanting everyday and associating with devotees. He feels transcendental bliss (esctacy) while reading scriptures like Shreemad Bhagwatam, and is fixed in executing devotional service unto lord. Does this kind of person need the help of a spiritual master physically or initiation. And if even he is willing to get initiated but because of family issues could not take initiation by a bonafide master, then can he go back to Godhead ?

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  • Volunteer

    Hare krsna prabhuji,

    Bharath prabhu has responded to all your queries already but i would like to add my 2 cents, if i can.

    The most important thing about devotional service is FAITH, unwavering and unflinching faith, that Krsna is with us and WILL guide us. Krsna will guide you depending on your sincerity and determination. He will also send you the spiritual master if Krsna feels that you need to reach Him through initiation.

    All glories to Srila Prabhupad, Guru and Gauranga!!!

    Hare Krsna!

  • One requires a first class maganhagavata gurudeva and sadhu sanga of high quality  to progress. But by following the sukriti one comes to attain these things. Always chant 

  • Hare Krishna,

    Very nice that you are following all regulative principles and reading SP books, doing 16 rounds.. Oh wow you are also doing devotional service and associating with devotees.. WOW This is so great.  Jai jai jai.

    There is anything above these things that is needed for going back to Godhead is your question..

    manuṣyāṇāḿ sahasreṣu
    kaścid yatati siddhaye
    yatatām api siddhānāḿ
    kaścin māḿ vetti tattvataḥ ( BG 7.3)

    Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

    If that is the case why Lord tells this sloka in BG?

    You are doing everything that is needed for going back to Godhead.. whatelse is needed? Do you think this is enough to KNOW LORD?

    We are in Kaliyuga.. Our mind is so polluted that our mind itself is our enemy.  The momment you said I did all this I am following all these.. Mind creates a great image of yourself.. You without knowingly start to develop PRIDE. Where there is pride the EGO of the person is so high... That he will think rest of all are idiots.. I am so great. 

    Vaishnavism is that is why based of one Important concept..." DAS ANU DAS"

    Be humble like a blade of grass and not like a prideful tree. This is main concept in  Vaishnavism. One who learns to serve the other and does mineal jobs also with pleasure ..out of love has no ego.

    Even if you read all shastras and all it only makes you prideful. Until you serve a higher authority your pride is not checked.

    Even In Goloka you are doing this job only If at all you were to go Back to Godhead.  You should be able to accept das anu das position and do all the works allotted by superiors. 

    For this purpose you have to learn this art of humbleness .. all Knowledge should end in Vinayam.

    Vidhya is learnt from books Vinaya( humbleness) is learnt practically. One is theoritical other is practical.

    If you serve considering someone superior to you by knowledge and who has attained krishna prema you will surely go back to godhead. 

    When you do service in practical world. Sometimes you works are not liked by your superiors ...they will correct you and check you on right time.

    Sometimes you will be given some very tough tasks by your guru and you will feel omg..what is this so tough...but In that you will learn " PATIENCE"

    When guru scolds you.. you don't rebel back and fight with him.. you will learn "TOLERANCE"

    If the guru gives you a task and you are working on it day and night and you are doing it with humbleness and respect for guru..considering guru's words as God's words.. You may be successful or not in that work. But you will learn a important thing that is.. " PERSEVERANCE"

    Siksha guru teaches you..all this but in practicals you will learn when you serve a guru in real world.

    tṛṇād api sunīcenataror api sahiṣṇunāamāninā mānadenakīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

    “One who thinks himself lower than the grass, who is more tolerant than a tree, and who does not expect personal honor yet is always prepared to give all respect to others can very easily always chant the holy name of the Lord.”

    I may learn this sloka 100 times and memorize it .. But in real practice the sloka learning will make you only prideful that OH man!! I am so great I learnt this sloka so well.. NO one knows it also. 

    But in practise if you able to do what the sloka means..then only there is benefit.

     When you serve a guru.. you will lose respecting your own self. You will realize you are so so so.. fallen.. You will realize your real worth.

    tad viddhi pranipatena
    pariprasnena sevaya
    upadeksyanti te jnanam
    jnaninas tattva-darsinah ( 4.34 BG)

    Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.

    Here Lord is saying if you want to know me.. You need to become submissive and render service to the spiritual master.

    Lord Sri Krishna and Lord Rama Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Prabhupada all.. served guru's.

    Was Lord Krishna and Lord Rama Lord Chaitanya were not all knowledgeable themselves? They served a guru just to show us.. that If one serves someone else their EGO is checked.

    One katha I remembered I would like to share:--

    There were 4 disciples serving a spiritual master. The 4 were thought all shastras, they all practised let us say.. 1. regualtive principles.. 2. 16 rounds..3. associating with devotees..4. reading scriptures. All of them were perfect in what was taught by the master. One day master decided to test all the 4 students. He called all of them and asked okay today am going to give you a task. He didn't reveal it was a testing day.

    The guru ji said..you all 4 of you should rewrite whole bhagwad gita book tonight and submit it tomorrow morning.  and now the disciples began to discuss among themseleves.

    One said.. hey this is sheer madnesss.. book is already available and how can we rewrite it in one night? this guru gone mad. Another said.. we give too much importance to him... I think this guru started to feel egoistic. He is giving these big tasks .. what does he think of himself. Yet another said.. Hey guys.. we can avoid doing saying some issues.. first one went to guru and said.. Today I am not feeling well. I cannot do this task. Another one went told Oh guru ji I have still to complete 16 rounds I am late..I have to do some other activities too. I am busy for the rest of the day. 

    Third disciple thought for a while and had a plan. He thought Okay I will write 3-4 pages and tell I was sleepy and tired so I slept off. 

    Fourth disciple was totally on the job he did wake up whole night and was going on writing the whole of Bhagwad gita book .. The rest of them thought Oh man we have to somehow stop him to do .. otherwise the guru ji will think this 4th alone is good disciple. They went to the room of the 4 th disciple and cut off the power supply off. They try to disturb him throught out night also. Inspite of all these ... the 4th one used a candle light and finished all the book.

    next day guru ji called all 4 of them. first on told..I didn't do becoz I had some pain somewhere. 

    second one told. ...I had to finish my regular rounds. no time for you work.

    third one said... I tried to do..3 pages but is it not too big task guru maharaj to ask us to do.

    The fouth one said I am done doing.. guru maharaj looked at the 4th disciple his eyes were swollen as he was awake all night. And at night guru maharaj was also observing the activities of these disciples. He also knows that the power supply was cut to the 4th disciple's room by the rest of the disciples and they tried to disturb him also throught out night. He understood and saw all these and yet the 4th one  completed the task.

    Now guru maharaj spoke to the rest of the three disciples.. Though you were all doing all the assigned tasks.. I will tell you all your defects.

    Guru maharaj goes to say .. I came to know that you three lacked faith in me.. even though you all qualified the written test. You all passed test in slokas recitation and chanting reading scriptures you lacked humbleness and you even thought I am mad and I am egoistic.  You try to cheat me. The person who can cheat a guru can cheat God also.

    You all even conspired and became jealous and cut the power supply off the 4th disciple's room. 

    My best disciple is this boy who without questioning took the task and finished it with perfection without complaining about the disturbances which you tried to cause him.

    He took the task done with conviction that guru is all knowing authority...He is humblest , down to earth.. Having patience, tolerance and perseverance.

    This is what you are all lacking. Even you are well read and doing all things perfectly these imperfections wont lead you back to Godhead.

    This is not taught in books. It is practical training which guru maharaj gives when you do seva.

    Mere reading of this story is also not going to help. Practice is important.

    Servitude attitude is must. By Service we lose our ego and when we lose our false ego we are ready for going to Godhead.

    Hare Krishna.

     

    • Hare Krishna 🙏

      Yes, you are absolutely correct. Please don't consider this question as my Pride, it's my foolishness, I was not able to even put this question clearly or in a better way. I am a 2nd year college student and want to devote my whole life in devotional service and serving the devotees, but I am instructed by my Siksha guru to continue my studies and apply my knowledge to serve the lord. But I want to be initiated in an early age so that I can learn and serve Guru with my full potential before getting old, but in my family no one is favourable for initiation, so how can I convince my family to let me get initiated and at the same time balancing my material life.

      • And please pray for me so that I can get the chance to serve the lotus feet of a bonafide spiritual master in the future. 🙏🙏

        • Haribol,

          You were not operating in pride. But one will devolop pride and ego in no time. Atleast you are under a Siksha guru. He is guiding you. You follow whatever your Siksha guru tells you. 

          Where there is a will there is always a way. Wait for the proper time. As Bharat Prabhu told Krishna sitting in your heart will guide you when time comes. Don't worry about the future. Just do nicely whatever is in your hands right now. Leave everything on Krishna. 

          Jai Gaura Nitai haribol.

          8430634489?profile=RESIZE_710xLeave everything on Lord Krishna sing Hari Haraya Namah Krishna Yad...

          See Lord Chaitanya How He is carefree no fear of anything when you lift you hands up.  What will happen if I am not initiated... what will happen to me omg..there is no worry at all.. If you are completely surrendered.. In Vishnu Sahasranama there is one name for Lord." Bhaya Krit Bhaya Nasanah" which means One who creates fear in those who are opposite to HIM and one who removes Fear in surrendered devotees". Then what is there to fear when you are already chanting Krishna name?

          Leave all to Lord Let HIm operate your life give the remote control of your life into Lord's hands and you will remain peaceful.

          Jai Gauranga.

          I am only so pridefula and egostic you don't know me. I am not saying you are prideful.. I am myself prideful and egostic. Sorry If I have said anything which offended you.

  • Sevak

    Hare Krsna

    Can a Krishna consciousness person go back to Godhead without initiation ?

    A Krsna Conscious person has already reached Godhead in spirit even if this great person is physically in this world. A Krsna consciousness person is capabale of taking others back home back to godhead. So this question does not make sense. 

    Does this kind of person need the help of a spiritual master physically or initiation ?

    Spiritual master is not a helpful ladder/stepping stone/tool, climbing on which people reach godhead. Spiritual master is one who can accurately, efficiently and sufficiently provide shelter of the lotus feet of Krsna in this burning material world. Spiritual master is one who has attained Krsna Prema and who upon Krsna's request is providing Krsna Prema in an accessible manner to fallen conditioned souls. 

    The path of Bhakti (true bhakti) is simple but not easy. There are not many examples of devotees who have gone back to godhead without taking the shelter of a bonafide spiritual master. Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who descended on earth to distribute Krsna Prema Himself accepted spiritual master. Even great acaryas like Madhwacarya, Ramanujacarya, Adwaitacarya etc took shelter of spiritual master. Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati thakur considered his life useless unless Gaur Kishore Das babaji maharaj accepted him as his disciple.

    All the great devotees in Srimad Bhagavatam like Dhruva, Prahlad etc were only ever and infitely grateful to their spiritual master so much so that they just wanted to serve their spiritual master over serving directly the Supreme lord Himself. 

    brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
    guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

    According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. By the mercy of both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service. (CC Madha 19.151)

    As given above - The BEST mercy that Lord Sri Krsna can bestow on a suffering conditioned soul is the shetler of His dearmost servant. That servant of Krsna not only provides the bhakti-lata-bija but also nourishes, protects and grows the bhakti lata to the extent that it ultimately attains Krsna Prema. Spiritual master teaches how to serve/please Krsna in spiritual world. Pleasing Krsna is not a small thing. Remember that Krsna is the Supreme lord whose expansion of expansion of expansion can generate unlimited universes by exhaling. Krsna owns everything and is everything. How to do you think insignificant jiva can please Krsna ?

    The question posted is not in the right spirit. Most sadhakas ask how can they easily/quickly attain Krsna and the answer to it is by serving a pure devotee of Krsna. 

    A better enquiry would  be how to bypass family or any other material constraints/restraints and attain spiritual shelter rather than how to bypass spiritual shelter to appease material things. Remember nothing is impossible by Krsna's mercy. But if one reject's Krsna's mercy failing to recognize it, then one is simply adding more difficultyin spiritual life. 

    Hare Krsna

     

    • Hare Krishna Prabhu Ji 🙏

      I am just a student and my intention was not to question on the need of Guru himself.. I was not able to put the question clearly. I want initiation in near future but in my family no one is devotee , how can I convince them for my initiation. I totally accept that the only way to back to Godhead is to serve his pure devotee , but if unfortunately one cannot take initiation by a bonafide master but following each and every instruction given in SP books with full faith(except Initiation one) giving up all material desires and material identity, what will happen to such a person ? Sorry if again my question is not suitable.

      • Sevak

        Hare Krsna 

        How can I convince them for my initiation ?

        This question is in right spirit. The answer is - by praying to Krsna. Nothing in impossible for Krsna. Please sincerely pray to Krsna. 

        I totally accept that the only way to back to Godhead is to serve his pure devotee

        Serving the pure devotees of Krsna is easiest and best way to please Krsna. In Krsna conciousness we do not talk in terms of the ONLY way. There could be multiple ways by Krsna's mercy. We accomodate all of them. We are not exclusivistic saying this is the only path. But intelligence is to take shelter of the best of all ways. 

        If unfortunately one cannot take initiation by a bonafide master,  what will happen to such a person ?

        Krsna sitting in heart will always guide as per the sincerity of the individual. 

        Hare Krsna

      • Please pray for me so I can get chance to serve the lotus feet of a bonafide spiritual master in near future. 🙏🙏🙏

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