Forum

Brahmajyoti

Dandavats to all vaisnavas,

I have 2 questions regarding to Brahmajyoti.

1.  Our original position?

In Srimad Bhagavatam 10.12.33 purport, there is the description about the origin of the souls;
"Kṛṣṇa is the full effulgence, and every living being is "part and parcel of that effulgence". As proved here, "the effulgence in every living being is individual". "

Once Srila Prabhupada denied the idea that spirit souls' original are Brahmajyoti.

This idea was mentioned by his god-brother,Narayana Maharaja.
But in other sources from Bhagavatam class, Srila Prabhupada mentioned that fallen souls in the material world came from the Vaikuntaloka.

Srila Prabhupada – “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” – (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

So, how should I understand this contradiction? Please help me out from this ignorance.

2. Does Brahma-jyoti has conscious?

Regarding to my first question the above, If every living being is part and parcel of that effulgence, then it seems like the Brahma-jyoti has conscious.

Moreover, Brahmajyoti which is the exterrnal, impersonal effulgence from Krsna spreads unlimitedly.
And Krsna has full conscious to His whole creation.
So, my second question is that does Brahmajyoti has conscious?

There is a part of siloka mentioning that Brahma is pure conscious": "prajñānam brahma"(Aitreya Upanishad 3.1.3).

So far as I understand, "impersonal" means "no conscious" like material energy which is turned from
Brahmajyoti by Krsna's will.
Could anyone solve my poor understanding about Brahmajyoti, please?

Hare Krsna.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada. \(^_^)/

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Replies

      • There is no difference between Lords effulgence  and Lord Himself, as there is no difference between Him and His name, His arm or His foot.  

         

        • Yes, you are right.
          The Absolute Truth is both subject and object, and there is no qualitative difference there.
          And same time, manifestation is different.
          vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
          brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB . 1.2.11)
          "The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān."
          One Absolute Truth is realized in different perspective views seen from different angles of vision.
          This is called Achintya-Bheda-Abheda tattva, simultaneous oneness and difference.
          Brahamajyoti and Pramatoma are depend on Bhagavan svayam Sri Krisha, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam, Satyam Pram, and Para Brahman.

          • Actually, from the point of Absolute Truth, duality such as ''impersonal'' - ''personal'',  can not be implemented on transcendental Lord, because He is advaita, non dual.  

            Three aspects , Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan, are actually One Absolute Truth, therefore focusing the mind on one of them will bring the same transcendental result. Separatists who claim differently, do not understand the qualities of transcendental nature, no matter who they are. 

            • Sevak

              Hare Krsna 

              Actually, from the point of Absolute Truth, duality such as ''impersonal'' - ''personal'',  can not be implemented on transcendental Lord, because He is advaita, non dual.  

              This is not the highest understanding given by Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Advaitavada is impersonalism. Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu gave us the ultimate most perfect understanding of acintya bheda abheda of simultaneuous oneness and difference. 

              Lord Krsna himself says in BG that devotional service to His personality if most perfect 

              Bg 12.1Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?
              Bg 12.2The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.
              Three aspects , Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan, are actually One Absolute Truth, therefore focusing the mind on one of them will bring the same transcendental result.
              This is also again not correct understanding as per BG. Lord Krsna says in BG
              Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me. BG 9.25
              Unfortunately many people have no information of these sublime planets where Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu live, and because they do not know of them they fall down. Even the impersonalists fall down from the brahma-jyotir. BG 9.25 Purport
              So clearly here Lord Krsna says one's destination is based on what one worships. Srila Prabhupada says Jivas in Brahmajyoti dont know of Vaikuntha planets and hence fall down. 
              Hare Krsna
              • 1. First of all, one should learn that Lord is nondual :
                SB 1.2.11
                vadanti tat tattva-vidas
                 tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
                brahmeti paramātmeti
                 bhagavān iti śabdyate
                Translation:
                Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramātmā or Bhagavān.
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                2. Secondly, what the processes of worshiping  different kind of living beings have to do with focusing the mind on three aspects of Absolute Truth.

            • No, the result of which your mind to focus on Brahmajoti and our bhaktas' mind to meditate on the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna is not same at all.
              Actually you do not want to accept that the Absolute Truth has acctually His Personal Form and Personality because you are envious the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
              That's why you attach to formless and impersonal Brahmajyoti rather than meditating on or worshiping Sri Krsna.
              And your desire is to become homogeneous to the Absolute Truth, isn't it?
              By mental speculation, impersonalits imaginally think that they can become the Absolute Truth.
              But they can't become the Energetic, the Source, the Cause of All Causes, the Absolute Truth, Bhagavan svayam.
              They can be in the Brahmajyoti by Sri Krsna's mercy after hard struggling. But they can't stay in His effulgece eternally because it is not our sanatana dharma. They will be fall down to this material world again. And they will stay in this material world which give them repeating birth and death again and again until they completely surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
              You, them and us, all living entities, are His energy. Our actual position, eternal funciton, is His eternal servants.

              jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya–kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’ kṛṣṇera ‘taṭasthā-śakti’ ‘bhedābheda-prakāśa ** sūryāṁśa-kiraṇa, yaiche agni-jvālā-caya svābhāvika kṛṣṇera tina-prakāra ‘śakti’ haya
              "It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa because he is the marginal energy of Kṛṣṇa and a manifestation simultaneously one and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Kṛṣṇa has three varieties of energy." (Chaitanya charitamrta Madhya-lila 20.108-109)

              And you should realize the puresr and the deepest love of Sri Krsna who is always maintain all living entities in this material world even to the person who hate Paramesvara.

              Sripada Shankaracharya gave nice prayers in his Bhaja Govindam to the persons who are not able to accept and worship the Supreme Personality Godhead Sri Govinda.

              geyaṁ gītā nāma sahasraṁ dhyeyaṁ śrīpati rūpamajasram
              neyaṁ sajjana saṇge cittaṁ deyaṁ dīnajanāya ca vittam
              "Regularly recite from the Bhagavad-Gita, meditate on Vishnu in your heart, and
              chant His thousand glories. Take delight to be with the noble and the holy. Distribute
              your wealth in charity to the poor and the needy."

              gurucaraṇāmbuja nirbhara bhakataḥ saṁsārādacirādbhava muktaḥ |
              sendriyamānasa niyamādevaṁ drakśyasi nija hṛdayasthaṁ devam
              "Oh devotee of the lotus feet of the Guru! May thou be soon free from Samsara.
              Through disciplined senses and controlled mind, thou shalt come to experience the
              indwelling Lord of your heart!"

              bhajagovindaṁ bhajagovindaṁ govindaṁ bhajamūḍhamate |
              nāmasmaraṇādanyamupāyaṁ nahi paśyāmo bhavataraṇe
              "Worship Govinda, worship Govinda, worship Govinda, Oh fool! Other than chanting
              the Lord's names, there is no other way to cross the life's ocean."

              • 'It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā that the brahmajyoti is His personal glow. Therefore, there is no difference between Him and His personal glow, brahmajyoti, or His plenary portions as Paramātmā. Less intelligent persons who are not aware of this fact, consider brahmajyoti and Paramātmā to be different from Śrī Kṛṣṇa.''

                (part of commentary of Srila Prabhupada on S.B.1.9.42 )

                -

                Those who first accepted Brahmajyoti to be non different from Krishna, but then claim the results of meditation on them to be different, contradict themselves. 

                If there is no difference between Brahmajyoti and Krishna, then those who achieve one of them actually achieve both.  One do not need to be very intelligent to understand that. 

                .

                Slikovni rezultat za yashoda gif

                • Sevak

                  Hare Krsna 

                  Those who first accepted Brahmajyoti to be non different from Krishna, but then claim the results of meditation on them to be different, contradict themselves. 

                  No, we follow acintya bheda abheda tattva of inconceivable one-ness and difference. Result of meditating on Brahmajyoti and result of pure devotional servie to Supreme personality of godhead Krsna are different. There is no contradiction because Brahmajyoti are both one and different from Personality of godhead.

                  A pure devotee, who worships the Supreme Personality of Godhead only, achieves the planets of Vaikuṇṭha and Kṛṣṇaloka without a doubt. BG 9.25 purport

                  If there is no difference between Brahmajyoti and Krishna, then those who achieve one of them actually achieve both.  One do not need to be very intelligent to understand that.

                  Again it is simultaneous one-ness and difference.

                  Brahmajyoti is not a permanent destination of jivas. Jivas from Brahmjyoti can fall down. This is teaching of Srila Prabhupada 

                  Even the impersonalists fall down from the brahma-jyotir. BG 9.25 purport

                  The impersonalist wants to attain the impersonal Brahman effulgence of the Lord, but that is not at all congenial to the living sparks, parts and parcels of the Lord. Therefore, the impersonalists again fall down and get material forms, which are all false to the spirit soul. SB 1.9.39 Purport

                  Hare Krsna

                • It seems like that you are here for not learning sincerely but just disturbance us.
                  You gave me same question in several times. But I answered you 2 times. 

                  In another Forum, "Please translate siloka from unknown source in Veda",
                  I wrote you as follow:
                  " The Absolute Truth, Param Satyam, is one. But there are 3 aspects for realizing of Param Satyam as Brahmajyoti, Paramatoma and Bhagavan.
                  The understanding or realizing of the Impersonal aspect of the Absolute Truth is not perfect. And above the realizing Brahmajyoti is Paramatoma realization, which is not perfect,either.
                  The understanding or realizing of the Absolute Truth, the Para Brahman, Bhagavan svayam is perfect.
                  vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
                  brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. (Bhāg. 1.2.11)
                  By chanting the holy name of the Absolute Truth, Sri Krishna, we can directly connect with Him and will be purified from envy to Sri Krishna.
                  And by studying Srimad Bhagavatam scrutinizingly, then we will gradually and actually understand Para Brahman, the Absolute Truth.
                  By the mercy from guru and Gouranga through rendering devotinal service, Krsna will reveal Himself gradually.
                  Brahmajyoti and Pramatoma depend on the supreme cause, Sri Krsna.
                  From Him everything including Brahmajyoti and Pramatoma come out.
                  Therefore by understanding and focusing the Absolute Truth, Sri Krsna, we will gradually and naturally understand aspect of Brahmajyoti and Pramatoma, too."

                  And I repeat what I wrote 3 days ago again:
                  The Absolute Truth is both subject and object, and there is no qualitative difference there.
                  And same time, manifestation is different.
                  vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
                  brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB . 1.2.11)
                  "The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān."
                  One Absolute Truth is realized in different perspective views seen from different angles of vision.
                  This is called Achintya-Bheda-Abheda tattva, simultaneous oneness and difference.
                  Brahamajyoti and Pramatoma are depend on Bhagavan svayam Sri Krisha, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam, Satyam Pram, and Para Brahman.

                  If you are seriously and truly understand the Absolute Truth, please chant Hare Krsna Maha mantra.
                  Then your heart will be purified, and you will be able to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna gradually by His mercy.
                  The best way is that please go to the nearest our temple and associtate our devotees and learn from them and eat spiritual food offered to Sri Krsna. In this way you you will understand the Absolute Truth in easy way.

                  This is final.

            • No, the result of which your mind to focus on Brahmajoti and our bhaktas' mind to meditate on the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna is not same at all.
              Actually you do not want to accept that the Absolute Truth has acctually His Personal Form and Personality because you are envious the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
              That's why you attach to formless and impersonal Brahmajyoti rather than meditating on or worshiping Sri Krsna.
              And your desire is to become homogeneous to the Absolute Truth, isn't it?

              Then you are imaginally thinking you will become the Absolute Truth.
              But you can't become the Energetic, the Source, the Cause of All Causes, the Absolute Truth, Bhagavan svayam.
              You can be in the Brahmajyoti by Sri Krsna's mercy after hard strangling. But you can't stay in His effulgence eternally because it is not our sanatana dharma. You will be fall down to this material world again. And you will stay in this material world which give you repeating birth and death again and again until you surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
              You and us, all living entities, are His energy. Our actual position, eternal funciton, is His eternal servants.

              jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya–kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’ kṛṣṇera ‘taṭasthā-śakti’ ‘bhedābheda-prakāśa ** sūryāṁśa-kiraṇa, yaiche agni-jvālā-caya svābhāvika kṛṣṇera tina-prakāra ‘śakti’ haya
              "It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa because he is the marginal energy of Kṛṣṇa and a manifestation simultaneously one and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Kṛṣṇa has three varieties of energy." (Chaitanya charitamrta Madhya-lila 20.108-109)

              And you should realize the purest and the deepest love of Sri Krsna who is always maintain all living entities in this material world even to the person who hate Paramesvara.

              Sripada Shankaracharya gave nice prayers in his Bhaja Govindam to the persons who are not able to accept and worship the Supreme Personality Godhead Sri Govinda.

              geyaṁ gītā nāma sahasraṁ dhyeyaṁ śrīpati rūpamajasram
              neyaṁ sajjana saṇge cittaṁ deyaṁ dīnajanāya ca vittam
              "Regularly recite from the Bhagavad-Gita, meditate on Vishnu in your heart, and
              chant His thousand glories. Take delight to be with the noble and the holy. Distribute
              your wealth in charity to the poor and the needy."

              gurucaraṇāmbuja nirbhara bhakataḥ saṁsārādacirādbhava muktaḥ |
              sendriyamānasa niyamādevaṁ drakśyasi nija hṛdayasthaṁ devam
              "Oh devotee of the lotus feet of the Guru! May thou be soon free from Samsara.
              Through disciplined senses and controlled mind, thou shalt come to experience the
              indwelling Lord of your heart!"

              bhajagovindaṁ bhajagovindaṁ govindaṁ bhajamūḍhamate |
              nāmasmaraṇādanyamupāyaṁ nahi paśyāmo bhavataraṇe
              "Worship Govinda, worship Govinda, worship Govinda, Oh fool! Other than chanting
              the Lord's names, there is no other way to cross the life's ocean."

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