Posted by David on February 11, 2012 at 9:42pm in Krishna
Please Accept My Humble ObeisancesAll Glories To Srila Prabhupada, Sri Gurudeva & Sri Gauranga.All Glories to ALL Vaisnavas.Hare KrishnaI do not wish to offend anyone with this question. But this question I feel is very needed.What about the other branches of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakurji's tree?Ex. Srila Narayana Maharaj, Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhara Maharaj, Srila Vamana Goswami Maharaj, etc?They are bonafide Vaisnavas, so why not follow them???Please forgive me if I have asked an improper question.Your Servant,Bhakta David
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SB 11.23.48 — Failing to conquer this irrepressible enemy, the mind, whose urges are intolerable and who torments the heart, many people are completely bewildered and create useless quarrel with others. Thus they conclude that other people are either their friends, their enemies or parties indifferent to them.
First try to learn about the great vaishnavas , before commiting vaishnav aparadha.
Bhakti Pragyan Keshav Goswami Maharaj was given the title of Vedantika Pandita, Mahopadesaka, Sri Kritiratna by Srila Bhakti Sidhanta Saraswati Prabhupad.
Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupad said - stated that the world should listen to the the person whom he has bestowed the title Mahopadesaka because their words are nondifferent from their life.
He was the first disciple to whom Bhakti Sidhanta Saraswati Prabhupad gave Guru mantra.
Srila Keshav Maharaj once put his own life at stake exchanging robes with his Guru to save his gurudeva's life to face a rioting mob .
Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Prabhupad wanted to give the sanyasa order to Keshva maharaj twice and not once to AC BhaktiVedanta Swami Maharaj , but Keshav Maharaj thought he was un-worthy. So your facts are wrong.
Finally the title BhaktiVedanta was given to Swami Maharaj by Srila Keshav maharaj , the whole vaishnava community is testimony to that.
It is good to follow one's spiritual master but one should not go and commit vaishnav aparadh, plz be careful.
Here is a very nice article written by Drutakarma Prabhu, explaining in great detail the relationship between Srila Prabhupada (ISKCON) and the Gaudiya Matha.
There are many pseudo vaishnavas like Radha kunda babajis who force their disciples to take manjari bhav. Prabhupada warns us about these babajis as they are prakrta-sahajiyas.
Srila Prabhupada: The siddha-pranali process is followed by a class of men who are not very authorized and who have manufactured their own way of devotional service. They imagine they have become associates of the Lord simply by thinking of themselves like that.
This external behavior is not at all according to the regulative principles. The so-called siddha-pranali process is followed by the prakrita-sahajiya, a pseudosect of so-called Vaishnavas. In the opinion of Rupa Gosvami, such activities are simply disturbances to the standard way of devotional service. Sri Rupa Gosvami says that learned acharyas recommend that we follow the regulative principles even after the development of spontaneous love for Krishna. -- Nectar of Devotion 16
To speculate on what your eternal position with Krishna is, or to have some one tell you what it is, is a sign of a prakrta-sahajiya. You will know when you get to that platform. It is irrelevant in the practice of bhakti yoga to speculate on this. Srila Prabhupada says, "That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?" (Morning Walk, 6-7-76, LA)
According to the Vedanta Sutra (4.4.1) and Sri Sanatana Goswami (Brhadbagavatamrtam, 2.2),a soul never gets given a spiritual body at any time. The spiritual body is an eternal and inseparable facet of the individual soul, the jiva-atma. The spiritual form of the self is eternally and inseparably connected to the individual self. My spiritual body is inseparable from me and, though dormant, my spiritual body has been with me for all of eternity. When a soul desires to render service to the Lord in his spiritual form then the dormant spiritual body becomes fully manifest. This is clearly stated to be the case in the Vedanta Sutra and in more recent texts such as Sri Sanatana Goswami's book Brhadbhagavatamrtam. It is utterly wrong to think that a soul can be given a spiritual body.
Srila Prabhupada Conversations, Morning Walk, 6-7-76, LA
Prabhupada: In this sahajiya party, then preaching will be finished. Siddha-pranali. Then everything will be finished. Preaching will be finished. Tamala Krsna: What does that mean, Srila Prabhupada, siddha-pranali? Prabhupada: Siddha-pranali is nonsense. They have manufactured a siddha-pranali. Ramesvara: [break] ...the initiation that you are given your siddhas, your eternal position. Prabhupada: They have learned it from these Radha-kunda babajis. Tamala Krsna: From Radha-kunda babajis? Prabhupada: Babajis, yes. After all, they're fool, rascals, so whatever they say. Let them say all nonsense. They are disqualified. Sahajiya babajis, that's all. Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, when the devotee is in the original relationship with Krsna, his siddha-deha, why is it that he sometimes changes his original rasa with Krsna? Prabhupada: Hm? Ramesvara: Each one of us has an original relationship with Krsna, some as plant, some as tree, some as cow, some as cowherd boy. So if that is re-established, why should the devotee desire to change it? Prabhupada: Well, that is spiritual kingdom. You can change if you like. Tamala Krsna: It is not static, Prabhupada once explained. Love is not static. Prabhupada: Generally, it is not changed. Just like mother Yasoda, she's mother all the time, eternally. Tamala Krsna: The question came in Bombay two or three years ago. Prabhupada said that it is not static. You can have (inaudible). Hari-sauri: I always understood before that the rasa was fixed, but that within that rasa one may take different..., one may take a different line. Prabhupada: That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now? Prabhupada: A patient is thinking, "How shall I dance when I become healthy?" First of all, rascal, become healthy, then talk of all this. The rascals are thinking like that. You are patient; first of all cure your disease, material disease. Then talk of all this. Utopian. "When I will get rich, how I shall treat.... I shall.... Then my wife is disobedient and I shall kick her like this," (laughter) Ramesvara: That's the point.
"A bhakta will naturally be attracted towards a specific bhava and mood of service. It is inherent within the bhakta. Everyone is different." That is the whole point.
To speculate on what your eternal position with Krishna is, or to have some one tell you what it is, is a sign of a prakrta-sahajiya. You will know when you get to that platform. It is irrelevant in the practice of bhakti yoga to speculate on this. Srila Prabhupada says: "That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?"
Following is a critique of the philosophy of the Radha Kunda babajis who teach that when a disciple comes to a guru he should be "given" a spiritual body of a manjari. In this article, the author carefully presents the teachings of Prabhupada Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur who taught that this "siddha pranali" system of worship is a concoction and a deviation from the ways of devotion taught by Sri Rupa-Sanatana.
A significant aspect of the siddha-pranali doctrine as it is generally practiced nowadays is the proposition that a guru will assign a spiritual body to their disciple. Followers of this doctrine think the spiritual form of a liberated person is given by their guru to a devotee.
For example, in a book about manjari swarup written by Kunjabihari das Babaji he wrote:
"In the Lord's abode, there are an unlimited number of forms, all suitable for rendering service to him. Every one of those forms is non-different from him, being expanded from his effulgence; each one is eternal, full of consciousness and bliss. They are the crowning, central jewels of the spiritual world - its very life. These unlimited spiritual bodies are the perfected forms of the liberated souls which are awarded to an individual, according to his taste, when he reaches the state of absolute liberation. This state is called attainment of the spiritual body. All these spiritual bodies are eternal for they exist even before the liberated souls enter them and will continue to exist ever afterward. However, prior to the entry of the liberated soul they are in an inactive state."
As all of the unlimited souls are servants of the Lord, each one of them has a spiritual body in the Lord's abode just suitable for rendering service to the Lord. When an individual becomes qualified for direct service to the Lord by the grace of the Goddess of Devotion, then the Supreme Lord awards him that spiritual body.
According to this school of belief, a devotee must be “awarded” or “given” a spiritual body (siddha-deha) by their guru so they can practice the meditation that they are assisting Sri Radha in the divine pastimes of the spiritual world. If some disciple has not been given a spiritual body by their guru then how can the disciple engage in the practice of raganuga bhakti?
Yet it must be pointed out that according to the Vedanta Sutra (4.4.1) and Sri Sanatana Goswami (Brhadbagavatamrtam, 2.2), a soul never gets given a spiritual body at any time. The spiritual body is an eternal and inseparable facet of the individual soul, the jiva-atma. The spiritual form of the self is eternally and inseparably connected to the individual self. My spiritual body is inseparable from me and, though dormant, my spiritual body has been with me for all of eternity. When a soul desires to render service to the Lord in his spiritual form then the dormant spiritual body becomes fully manifest. This is clearly stated to be the case in the Vedanta Sutra and in more recent texts such as Sri Sanatana Goswami's book Brhadbhagavatamrtam. It is utterly wrong to think that a soul can be given a spiritual body. In the commentary by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana to verse 4.4.1 (sampadyavirbhavah svena sabdat) of the Vedanta Sutra, Baladeva has written the following:
"The individual soul who, by means of devotional service accompanied with knowledge and renunciation, attains the effulgent Supreme, becomes free from the bondage of karma and attains a body endowed with eight virtues. This body is said to be the soul's original form. Why is that? The sutra explains, “svena-sabdat” (because of the word “svena”). The word “svena” here means, “in his own original form”. For this reason it cannot be said that this passage means, “the soul arrives there and then accepts a form which is an external imposition”. In that way it is proved that the form here is the original form of the soul."
In this section of Vedanta Sutra, the topic being discussed is: “When a soul attains liberation does the soul attain a body that is different from himself, as the bodies of demigods are different from their inner self, or does the soul manifest his original identity which is not different from himself?” In Baladeva's commentary, he emphatically declares that in his sutras Vyasa himself is saying that when a soul becomes liberated they realize their inner identity and see they are a purely spiritual self with an eternal body of full of spiritual consciousness and bliss (sat-chitananda).
Baladeva quotes the Chandogya Upanishad:
"Thus does that serene being, arising from this body, appear in its own form, as soon as it has approached the highest light, the knowledge of Self. He, in that state, is the highest person (uttama purusha). He moves about there laughing or eating, playing, and rejoicing in his mind, be it with women, carriages, or relatives, never minding that body into which he was born." Chandogya Upanishad 8.12.3.
Baladev Vidyabhusan then quotes from the Padma Purana:
"The soul is atomic, eternal, is present by consciousness everywhere in the material body, is by nature full of spiritual bliss and knowledge, has a sense of individual identity, is unchanging, is a witness within the body, and is different from the Supreme."
Srila Baladev Vidyabhusan states that the spiritual form of bliss the liberated being attains is the original form of the soul that lay dormant within when the soul was in illusion. The Vedanta Sutra tells us that the spiritual body of the liberated being is the soul's original form. This form is a form of eternity, knowledge and bliss, as is mentioned in the verse above (cid-ananda-atma). It is not that the soul attains liberation and enters into a spiritual body or a form of existence which is an external imposition, an external state of being different from the self itsef. Not at all. The liberated soul realizes the spiritual nature of one's own inner being.
Srila Sanatan Gosvami has also presented the same conclusion. In his commentary to verse 2.2186 of Sri Brhadbhagavatamrtam, Srila Sanatan Gosvami quotes Shankaracarya's verse, “mukta api lilaya vigraham kritva bhagavantam bhajanta”, which he translated as “Even the liberated assume a form and worship the Lord in his pastimes”. Srila Sanatan Gosvami then quotes Srimad Bhagavatam 6.14.5 “muktanam api siddhanam narayana parayana”, that is, “The liberated and perfected souls are engaged in Narayan's service.” Then Srila Sanatan Gosvami asks himself: “If liberated souls didn't have forms then how could they engage in the Lord's service?” The answer: “Bhagavati layam praptasyapi nri dehasya mahamuneh punar narayana rupena pradurbhavah”. Even those who have merged into the Lord have dormant human forms.
The statement of Srila Sanatan Goswami is clear and unambiguous. Even those souls who have never known Krishna and are merged in the formless light of Brahman have dormant human forms.
In another part of Brhad Bhagatamrtam, the commentary to verse 2.2.207, Sri Sanatana Goswami also wrote:
"O great sage, among many millions who are liberated and perfect in knowledge of liberation, one may be a devotee of Lord Narayana, or Krishna. Such devotees, who are fully peaceful, are extremely rare. Impersonalists generally imagine themselves perfect and liberated, and among them a very few may actually attain impersonal liberation. But those rare souls, like all others, are eternal servants of Hari, the all attractive Lord. Out of millions of such rare liberated impersonalists, one very fortunate soul may realize this natural fact. Since intelligence is dormant in the “merged” soul, it can be reawakened. Even the liberated souls who have merged into the formless divine light of the spiritual sky retain their eternal spiritual bodies, complete with spiritual mind and senses. Nothing, not even liberation, can ever deprive a jiva of these assets. Thus when a liberated soul gains the favour of the Supreme Lord's personal energy, his spiritual body and senses are reawakened for hearing and chanting the glories of Lord Hari and acting in other ways for the Lord's pleasure."
The spiritual body and senses are reawakened, so that the soul returns to his original state of pure siddha perfection. This soul in its pure state, still merged in Brahman, can develop a mood of submission to the Absolute and begin moving towards the gates of the spiritual world. Or, awakening with a false sense of ego, the soul may descend into the world of duality, birth and death. Again and again the jiva may attain Brahman and then fall again, developing an “exploiting” mentality that drags the soul back into samsara. However the soul who enters the kingdom of Narayana attains real immortality.
Elsewhere in Brhad Bhagatamrtam, Srila Sanatan Goswami gives a beautiful description of souls entering the spiritual world of Vaikuntha. The form of one's self that someone contemplates during one's life of devotional practice, the stage of sadhana bhakti, is the form you will have in your state of perfection. And that state of being of a soul is capable of further transformation and development.
Srila Sanatan Goswami describes souls entering the spiritual world:
"Some came with associates, some with paraphernalia, and some with both associates and paraphernalia. Some merged their associates and paraphernalia in their own selves and became like penniless solitary sages plunged in the nectar of meditation. Some moment by moment manifested different wonderful and charming forms, each opulent with different and wonderful ornaments, features and pastimes. Some were humans, some monkeys, some demigods, some demons, and some sages. Others carried the marks of being initiated in the orders of varna and ashrama. Some were like Indra, Chandra or the other gods. Some had three eyes, some four heads, and some four arms, some eight arms, and some a thousand faces. I will tell you the reason for this great wonder: How can they who taste the nectar of devotion to Lord Krishna not be handsome? The glories of Vaikuntha's residents, who are all beyond the material world of five elements, the glories of Vaikunthaloka and of Vaikuntha's hero, Narayana, cannot be described with the examples drawn from the world of five elements. " (Brhad Bhagatamrtam 2.4.35-41)
The teaching of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati on raganuga-bhakti is, that ajata ruci (without taste) raganuga sadhakas (practitioners) should adopt the methods of raganuga sadhana that they are qualified to adopt in proportion to their development of sacred greed (lobhamayi sraddha), while following the angas (limbs) of vaidhi bhakti (regulated devotional service).
This follows Sri Jiva Goswami's Bhakti-sandarbha 311
ajata-tadrsa-rucina tu sad-visesa adaramatradrta raganugapi vaidhi-samvalitaivanus heya/ tatha loka-sangrahartam pratis hitena jata-tadrsa-rucina ca/ atra misratve ca tyatha-yogyam raganugayaikikrtyaiva vaidhi kartavya.
"One in whom this taste (ruci) has not arisen but who has come to appreciate raganuga-bhakti only on account of appreciation for a particular saint or scripture (sat), may still practice raganuga-bhakti but with an admixture of vaidhi-bhakti. In the same way, for the sake of preaching (loka-sangrahartaham) one who is advanced and in whom taste has manifested should also practice raganuga with an admixture of vaidhi. Such mixing of the two kinds of bhakti means that one practices vaidhi-bhakti by uniting it with whatever raganuga practices one is capable of."
In the opinion of Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, such mixing of the two kinds of bhakti means that one embrace the angas of vaidhi-bhakti with a view to attain greater eligibility for raganuga-bhakti and its sadhya (goal) by uniting them with whatever raganuga practices one is eligible for (yatah-yogyam). In his opinion this did not include an emphasis on meditating on the pastimes of Radha-Krsna from the vantage point of one's siddha deha for those who had not attained the stage of nistha, based on the reasoning that dhyana (meditation) requires a pure heart, whereas kirtanam (chanting) does not. He reasoned, as has Sri Sanatana Goswami in Brhad-bhagavatamrta, that smaranam (remembering) arises naturally out of kirtanam. Thus he emphasized nama smaranam for beginners, stressing inoffensive chanting that would lead naturally to meditation on Krsna's form (rupa samaranam), qualities (guna smaranam), andpastimes (lila smaranam). (lila-smaranam, the remembrance of one's lila in Krishna's pastimes)
Of course he also emphasized mantra dhyana of Gopala mantra, kama gayatri, etc., and these mantras were given to sadhakas only after they had attained a degree of steadiness in nama smaranam (japa).
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati was reacting to what he perceived as 'a sleight of hand' in the name of giving, or in some cases making a business out of and selling siddha pranali. Thus his position was that sadhakas while aspiring for Vraja bhakti should do kirtanam and that as this kirtanam qualified them they should combine it with smaranam. Furthermore he maintained that one's svarupa would be glimpsed in the stages of ruci and asakti, at which time effective and meaningful lila smaranam from the vantage point of one's svarupa could take place propelling the sadhaka into bhava bhakti.
Hare Krishna dear Devotees, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
this question is like "there are so many branches from Nityananda Prabhu also, Advaita Acharya also...then why we do not follow those branches?"
Or there are 4 Sampradayas then why we are in Brahma Gaudiya Sampradaya not in Sri Sampradaya???
By being in Brahma Gaudiya Sampradaya we do not say that Sri Sampradaya is bad or not authoritative. We just from different families. We respect them but we follow instructions of our own parents and reach our goal. They follow their parents' instructions and reach their goal.
If we want to progress in devotional service, we have to follow steps of our previous acharyas.
Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: one should follow the mahājana, the authorized person. These mahājanas follow the principles set forth by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.
There are four sects of worshipful devotees of the Lord, and the chief amongst them are the Brahma-sampradāya (descending directly from Lord Brahmā), Rudra-sampradāya (descending directly from Lord Siva), Śrī-sampradāya (goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī) and Kumara Sampradya (descending from four Sanat kumara). All of the four original sampradāyas are still scrupulously engaged in the transcendental service of the Lord up to date, and they all declare that Lord Kṛṣṇa, Mukunda, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and no other personality is equal to Him or greater than Him.
Please go through below link for detailed description.
vanishree > Mohini MadhaviFebruary 13, 2012 at 3:53pm
Hare Krishna David Prabhuji
Does this also refer to Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj? He gave Srila Prabhupada sanyasi order of life? How is this?
I asked same question to my Shiksha Prabhuji and he gave answer as follows.
Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj gave Sannyas to Srila Prabhupada on the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur. It was Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur who was continuously forcing Srila Prabhupada to take sannyasa so that he could go to west and start his preaching mission soon. Here Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur is Spiritual master and Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj acted as instrument to give sannyasa.
We all know that Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu took Sannyas from Keshava Bharathi who was coming from Mayavada line. The sannyāsa order is to be accepted from another sannyāsī. So it does not mean that now Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu is following Mayavaad. He gave mercy to Keshava Bharathi by taking sanyas from him.
So actually Srila Prabhupad blessed Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj by taking sannyas from him. We can see from the history that Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur took Sanyas from Photo of Gaura Kishor Das Babaji maharaj, so Srila Prabhupaad would have done the same thing as it was directly ordered by His spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur. Why Srila Prabhupad did not do so? thats because caste goswamis at that time did not accept Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur's sannyasa as proper, because they were vapuvadis, so it is very well understood that Srila Prabhupad made Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj bonafide by taking sannyasa from him.
I don't mean to deter faith in Lord Krishna. I am worried / discouraged though.
Why is there so much politics?
I am on the side of Sri Krishna, and I thought every Vaisnava is also?
How do we know who is sincere? I always thought all of 64 Gaudiya Maths established by Srila Bhaktisiddhantha Sarasvati Thakurji are bonafide.
How do we know the difference?
Please forgive me if I am offending anyone by asking this question.
It is very obvious that we become discouraged by knowing these facts in the beginning, even I was discouraged, but this is kaliyuga and finding a sincere and pure devotee is very very difficult.
Bhaktisiddhantha Sarasvati Thakurji's 64 mats were bonafide till Bhaktisiddhantha Sarasvati Thakurji's physical departure. When disciples of Bhaktisiddhantha Sarasvati Thakurji did not hear to their spiritual master's words as mentioned in above letter, they became useless, so mercy coming from higher authority stopped and so they could not preach.
How do we know who is sincere? One who is following instructions of his spiritual master and acting according to it with full conviction is sincere.
Replies
First try to learn about the great vaishnavas , before commiting vaishnav aparadha.
Bhakti Pragyan Keshav Goswami Maharaj was given the title of Vedantika Pandita, Mahopadesaka, Sri Kritiratna by Srila Bhakti Sidhanta Saraswati Prabhupad.
Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupad said - stated that the world should listen to the the person whom he has bestowed the title Mahopadesaka because their words are nondifferent from their life.
He was the first disciple to whom Bhakti Sidhanta Saraswati Prabhupad gave Guru mantra.
Srila Keshav Maharaj once put his own life at stake exchanging robes with his Guru to save his gurudeva's life to face a rioting mob .
Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Prabhupad wanted to give the sanyasa order to Keshva maharaj twice and not once to AC BhaktiVedanta Swami Maharaj , but Keshav Maharaj thought he was un-worthy. So your facts are wrong.
Finally the title BhaktiVedanta was given to Swami Maharaj by Srila Keshav maharaj , the whole vaishnava community is testimony to that.
It is good to follow one's spiritual master but one should not go and commit vaishnav aparadh, plz be careful.
Dear Bh. David,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Here is a very nice article written by Drutakarma Prabhu, explaining in great detail the relationship between Srila Prabhupada (ISKCON) and the Gaudiya Matha.
Your humble servant,
Mldd
Prabhupad and Gaudiya Math.DOC
There are many pseudo vaishnavas like Radha kunda babajis who force their disciples to take manjari bhav. Prabhupada warns us about these babajis as they are prakrta-sahajiyas.
Srila Prabhupada: The siddha-pranali process is followed by a class of men who are not very authorized and who have manufactured their own way of devotional service. They imagine they have become associates of the Lord simply by thinking of themselves like that.
This external behavior is not at all according to the regulative principles. The so-called siddha-pranali process is followed by the prakrita-sahajiya, a pseudosect of so-called Vaishnavas. In the opinion of Rupa Gosvami, such activities are simply disturbances to the standard way of devotional service. Sri Rupa Gosvami says that learned acharyas recommend that we follow the regulative principles even after the development of spontaneous love for Krishna. -- Nectar of Devotion 16
To speculate on what your eternal position with Krishna is, or to have some one tell you what it is, is a sign of a prakrta-sahajiya. You will know when you get to that platform. It is irrelevant in the practice of bhakti yoga to speculate on this. Srila Prabhupada says, "That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?" (Morning Walk, 6-7-76, LA)
According to the Vedanta Sutra (4.4.1) and Sri Sanatana Goswami (Brhadbagavatamrtam, 2.2),a soul never gets given a spiritual body at any time. The spiritual body is an eternal and inseparable facet of the individual soul, the jiva-atma. The spiritual form of the self is eternally and inseparably connected to the individual self. My spiritual body is inseparable from me and, though dormant, my spiritual body has been with me for all of eternity. When a soul desires to render service to the Lord in his spiritual form then the dormant spiritual body becomes fully manifest. This is clearly stated to be the case in the Vedanta Sutra and in more recent texts such as Sri Sanatana Goswami's book Brhadbhagavatamrtam. It is utterly wrong to think that a soul can be given a spiritual body.
Srila Prabhupada Conversations, Morning Walk, 6-7-76, LA
Prabhupada: In this sahajiya party, then preaching will be finished. Siddha-pranali. Then everything will be finished. Preaching will be finished.
Tamala Krsna: What does that mean, Srila Prabhupada, siddha-pranali?
Prabhupada: Siddha-pranali is nonsense. They have manufactured a siddha-pranali.
Ramesvara: [break] ...the initiation that you are given your siddhas, your eternal position.
Prabhupada: They have learned it from these Radha-kunda babajis.
Tamala Krsna: From Radha-kunda babajis?
Prabhupada: Babajis, yes. After all, they're fool, rascals, so whatever they say. Let them say all nonsense. They are disqualified. Sahajiya babajis, that's all.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, when the devotee is in the original relationship with Krsna, his siddha-deha, why is it that he sometimes changes his original rasa with Krsna?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Ramesvara: Each one of us has an original relationship with Krsna, some as plant, some as tree, some as cow, some as cowherd boy. So if that is re-established, why should the devotee desire to change it?
Prabhupada: Well, that is spiritual kingdom. You can change if you like.
Tamala Krsna: It is not static, Prabhupada once explained. Love is not static.
Prabhupada: Generally, it is not changed. Just like mother Yasoda, she's mother all the time, eternally.
Tamala Krsna: The question came in Bombay two or three years ago. Prabhupada said that it is not static. You can have (inaudible).
Hari-sauri: I always understood before that the rasa was fixed, but that within that rasa one may take different..., one may take a different line.
Prabhupada: That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?
Prabhupada: A patient is thinking, "How shall I dance when I become healthy?" First of all, rascal, become healthy, then talk of all this. The rascals are thinking like that. You are patient; first of all cure your disease, material disease. Then talk of all this. Utopian. "When I will get rich, how I shall treat.... I shall.... Then my wife is disobedient and I shall kick her like this," (laughter)
Ramesvara: That's the point.
"A bhakta will naturally be attracted towards a specific bhava and mood of service. It is inherent within the bhakta. Everyone is different." That is the whole point.
To speculate on what your eternal position with Krishna is, or to have some one tell you what it is, is a sign of a prakrta-sahajiya. You will know when you get to that platform. It is irrelevant in the practice of bhakti yoga to speculate on this. Srila Prabhupada says: "That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?"
Following is a critique of the philosophy of the Radha Kunda babajis who teach that when a disciple comes to a guru he should be "given" a spiritual body of a manjari. In this article, the author carefully presents the teachings of Prabhupada Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur who taught that this "siddha pranali" system of worship is a concoction and a deviation from the ways of devotion taught by Sri Rupa-Sanatana.
A significant aspect of the siddha-pranali doctrine as it is generally practiced nowadays is the proposition that a guru will assign a spiritual body to their disciple. Followers of this doctrine think the spiritual form of a liberated person is given by their guru to a devotee.
For example, in a book about manjari swarup written by Kunjabihari das Babaji he wrote:
"In the Lord's abode, there are an unlimited number of forms, all suitable for rendering service to him. Every one of those forms is non-different from him, being expanded from his effulgence; each one is eternal, full of consciousness and bliss. They are the crowning, central jewels of the spiritual world - its very life. These unlimited spiritual bodies are the perfected forms of the liberated souls which are awarded to an individual, according to his taste, when he reaches the state of absolute liberation. This state is called attainment of the spiritual body. All these spiritual bodies are eternal for they exist even before the liberated souls enter them and will continue to exist ever afterward. However, prior to the entry of the liberated soul they are in an inactive state."
As all of the unlimited souls are servants of the Lord, each one of them has a spiritual body in the Lord's abode just suitable for rendering service to the Lord. When an individual becomes qualified for direct service to the Lord by the grace of the Goddess of Devotion, then the Supreme Lord awards him that spiritual body.
According to this school of belief, a devotee must be “awarded” or “given” a spiritual body (siddha-deha) by their guru so they can practice the meditation that they are assisting Sri Radha in the divine pastimes of the spiritual world. If some disciple has not been given a spiritual body by their guru then how can the disciple engage in the practice of raganuga bhakti?
Yet it must be pointed out that according to the Vedanta Sutra (4.4.1) and Sri Sanatana Goswami (Brhadbagavatamrtam, 2.2), a soul never gets given a spiritual body at any time. The spiritual body is an eternal and inseparable facet of the individual soul, the jiva-atma. The spiritual form of the self is eternally and inseparably connected to the individual self. My spiritual body is inseparable from me and, though dormant, my spiritual body has been with me for all of eternity. When a soul desires to render service to the Lord in his spiritual form then the dormant spiritual body becomes fully manifest. This is clearly stated to be the case in the Vedanta Sutra and in more recent texts such as Sri Sanatana Goswami's book Brhadbhagavatamrtam. It is utterly wrong to think that a soul can be given a spiritual body. In the commentary by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana to verse 4.4.1 (sampadyavirbhavah svena sabdat) of the Vedanta Sutra, Baladeva has written the following:
"The individual soul who, by means of devotional service accompanied with knowledge and renunciation, attains the effulgent Supreme, becomes free from the bondage of karma and attains a body endowed with eight virtues. This body is said to be the soul's original form. Why is that? The sutra explains, “svena-sabdat” (because of the word “svena”). The word “svena” here means, “in his own original form”. For this reason it cannot be said that this passage means, “the soul arrives there and then accepts a form which is an external imposition”. In that way it is proved that the form here is the original form of the soul."
In this section of Vedanta Sutra, the topic being discussed is: “When a soul attains liberation does the soul attain a body that is different from himself, as the bodies of demigods are different from their inner self, or does the soul manifest his original identity which is not different from himself?” In Baladeva's commentary, he emphatically declares that in his sutras Vyasa himself is saying that when a soul becomes liberated they realize their inner identity and see they are a purely spiritual self with an eternal body of full of spiritual consciousness and bliss (sat-chitananda).
Baladeva quotes the Chandogya Upanishad:
"Thus does that serene being, arising from this body, appear in its own form, as soon as it has approached the highest light, the knowledge of Self. He, in that state, is the highest person (uttama purusha). He moves about there laughing or eating, playing, and rejoicing in his mind, be it with women, carriages, or relatives, never minding that body into which he was born."
Chandogya Upanishad 8.12.3.
Baladev Vidyabhusan then quotes from the Padma Purana:
"The soul is atomic, eternal, is present by consciousness everywhere in the material body, is by nature full of spiritual bliss and knowledge, has a sense of individual identity, is unchanging, is a witness within the body, and is different from the Supreme."
Srila Baladev Vidyabhusan states that the spiritual form of bliss the liberated being attains is the original form of the soul that lay dormant within when the soul was in illusion. The Vedanta Sutra tells us that the spiritual body of the liberated being is the soul's original form. This form is a form of eternity, knowledge and bliss, as is mentioned in the verse above (cid-ananda-atma). It is not that the soul attains liberation and enters into a spiritual body or a form of existence which is an external imposition, an external state of being different from the self itsef. Not at all. The liberated soul realizes the spiritual nature of one's own inner being.
Srila Sanatan Gosvami has also presented the same conclusion. In his commentary to verse 2.2186 of Sri Brhadbhagavatamrtam, Srila Sanatan Gosvami quotes Shankaracarya's verse, “mukta api lilaya vigraham kritva bhagavantam bhajanta”, which he translated as “Even the liberated assume a form and worship the Lord in his pastimes”. Srila Sanatan Gosvami then quotes Srimad Bhagavatam 6.14.5 “muktanam api siddhanam narayana parayana”, that is, “The liberated and perfected souls are engaged in Narayan's service.” Then Srila Sanatan Gosvami asks himself: “If liberated souls didn't have forms then how could they engage in the Lord's service?” The answer: “Bhagavati layam praptasyapi nri dehasya mahamuneh punar narayana rupena pradurbhavah”. Even those who have merged into the Lord have dormant human forms.
The statement of Srila Sanatan Goswami is clear and unambiguous. Even those souls who have never known Krishna and are merged in the formless light of Brahman have dormant human forms.
In another part of Brhad Bhagatamrtam, the commentary to verse 2.2.207, Sri Sanatana Goswami also wrote:
"O great sage, among many millions who are liberated and perfect in knowledge of liberation, one may be a devotee of Lord Narayana, or Krishna. Such devotees, who are fully peaceful, are extremely rare. Impersonalists generally imagine themselves perfect and liberated, and among them a very few may actually attain impersonal liberation. But those rare souls, like all others, are eternal servants of Hari, the all attractive Lord. Out of millions of such rare liberated impersonalists, one very fortunate soul may realize this natural fact. Since intelligence is dormant in the “merged” soul, it can be reawakened. Even the liberated souls who have merged into the formless divine light of the spiritual sky retain their eternal spiritual bodies, complete with spiritual mind and senses. Nothing, not even liberation, can ever deprive a jiva of these assets. Thus when a liberated soul gains the favour of the Supreme Lord's personal energy, his spiritual body and senses are reawakened for hearing and chanting the glories of Lord Hari and acting in other ways for the Lord's pleasure."
The spiritual body and senses are reawakened, so that the soul returns to his original state of pure siddha perfection. This soul in its pure state, still merged in Brahman, can develop a mood of submission to the Absolute and begin moving towards the gates of the spiritual world. Or, awakening with a false sense of ego, the soul may descend into the world of duality, birth and death. Again and again the jiva may attain Brahman and then fall again, developing an “exploiting” mentality that drags the soul back into samsara. However the soul who enters the kingdom of Narayana attains real immortality.
Elsewhere in Brhad Bhagatamrtam, Srila Sanatan Goswami gives a beautiful description of souls entering the spiritual world of Vaikuntha. The form of one's self that someone contemplates during one's life of devotional practice, the stage of sadhana bhakti, is the form you will have in your state of perfection. And that state of being of a soul is capable of further transformation and development.
Srila Sanatan Goswami describes souls entering the spiritual world:
"Some came with associates, some with paraphernalia, and some with both associates and paraphernalia. Some merged their associates and paraphernalia in their own selves and became like penniless solitary sages plunged in the nectar of meditation. Some moment by moment manifested different wonderful and charming forms, each opulent with different and wonderful ornaments, features and pastimes. Some were humans, some monkeys, some demigods, some demons, and some sages. Others carried the marks of being initiated in the orders of varna and ashrama. Some were like Indra, Chandra or the other gods. Some had three eyes, some four heads, and some four arms, some eight arms, and some a thousand faces. I will tell you the reason for this great wonder: How can they who taste the nectar of devotion to Lord Krishna not be handsome? The glories of Vaikuntha's residents, who are all beyond the material world of five elements, the glories of Vaikunthaloka and of Vaikuntha's hero, Narayana, cannot be described with the examples drawn from the world of five elements. "
(Brhad Bhagatamrtam 2.4.35-41)
The teaching of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati on raganuga-bhakti is, that ajata ruci (without taste) raganuga sadhakas (practitioners) should adopt the methods of raganuga sadhana that they are qualified to adopt in proportion to their development of sacred greed (lobhamayi sraddha), while following the angas (limbs) of vaidhi bhakti (regulated devotional service).
This follows Sri Jiva Goswami's Bhakti-sandarbha 311
ajata-tadrsa-rucina tu sad-visesa adaramatradrta
raganugapi vaidhi-samvalitaivanus heya/
tatha loka-sangrahartam pratis hitena jata-tadrsa-rucina ca/
atra misratve ca tyatha-yogyam raganugayaikikrtyaiva vaidhi kartavya.
"One in whom this taste (ruci) has not arisen but who has come to appreciate raganuga-bhakti only on account of appreciation for a particular saint or scripture (sat), may still practice raganuga-bhakti but with an admixture of vaidhi-bhakti. In the same way, for the sake of preaching (loka-sangrahartaham) one who is advanced and in whom taste has manifested should also practice raganuga with an admixture of vaidhi. Such mixing of the two kinds of bhakti means that one practices vaidhi-bhakti by uniting it with whatever raganuga practices one is capable of."
In the opinion of Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, such mixing of the two kinds of bhakti means that one embrace the angas of vaidhi-bhakti with a view to attain greater eligibility for raganuga-bhakti and its sadhya (goal) by uniting them with whatever raganuga practices one is eligible for (yatah-yogyam). In his opinion this did not include an emphasis on meditating on the pastimes of Radha-Krsna from the vantage point of one's siddha deha for those who had not attained the stage of nistha, based on the reasoning that dhyana (meditation) requires a pure heart, whereas kirtanam (chanting) does not. He reasoned, as has Sri Sanatana Goswami in Brhad-bhagavatamrta, that smaranam (remembering) arises naturally out of kirtanam. Thus he emphasized nama smaranam for beginners, stressing inoffensive chanting that would lead naturally to meditation on Krsna's form (rupa samaranam), qualities (guna smaranam), andpastimes (lila smaranam). (lila-smaranam, the remembrance of one's lila in Krishna's pastimes)
Of course he also emphasized mantra dhyana of Gopala mantra, kama gayatri, etc., and these mantras were given to sadhakas only after they had attained a degree of steadiness in nama smaranam (japa).
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati was reacting to what he perceived as 'a sleight of hand' in the name of giving, or in some cases making a business out of and selling siddha pranali. Thus his position was that sadhakas while aspiring for Vraja bhakti should do kirtanam and that as this kirtanam qualified them they should combine it with smaranam. Furthermore he maintained that one's svarupa would be glimpsed in the stages of ruci and asakti, at which time effective and meaningful lila smaranam from the vantage point of one's svarupa could take place propelling the sadhaka into bhava bhakti.
Hare Krishna dear Devotees, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
this question is like "there are so many branches from Nityananda Prabhu also, Advaita Acharya also...then why we do not follow those branches?"
Or there are 4 Sampradayas then why we are in Brahma Gaudiya Sampradaya not in Sri Sampradaya???
By being in Brahma Gaudiya Sampradaya we do not say that Sri Sampradaya is bad or not authoritative. We just from different families. We respect them but we follow instructions of our own parents and reach our goal. They follow their parents' instructions and reach their goal.
Your servant,
Hare Krishna Devotees,
I am very ignorant about this topic.Can somebody take some time out to please explain me the Gaudiya Sampradaya or any other sampradaya ?
What exactly a sampradaya indicates? Does all vaishnava's people belong to certain sampradaya?
Is this sampradaya formed only for ISKCON vaishnav devotees or other vaishanav's as well?
Hare Krishna Mataji
If we want to progress in devotional service, we have to follow steps of our previous acharyas.
Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: one should follow the mahājana, the authorized person. These mahājanas follow the principles set forth by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.
There are four sects of worshipful devotees of the Lord, and the chief amongst them are the Brahma-sampradāya (descending directly from Lord Brahmā), Rudra-sampradāya (descending directly from Lord Siva), Śrī-sampradāya (goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī) and Kumara Sampradya (descending from four Sanat kumara). All of the four original sampradāyas are still scrupulously engaged in the transcendental service of the Lord up to date, and they all declare that Lord Kṛṣṇa, Mukunda, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and no other personality is equal to Him or greater than Him.
Please go through below link for detailed description.
http://leagueofdevotees.blogspot.in/search/label/Four%20Vaisnava%20...
Your servant
Hare Krishna David Prabhuji
Does this also refer to Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj? He gave Srila Prabhupada sanyasi order of life? How is this?
I asked same question to my Shiksha Prabhuji and he gave answer as follows.
Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj gave Sannyas to Srila Prabhupada on the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur. It was Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur who was continuously forcing Srila Prabhupada to take sannyasa so that he could go to west and start his preaching mission soon. Here Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur is Spiritual master and Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj acted as instrument to give sannyasa.
We all know that Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu took Sannyas from Keshava Bharathi who was coming from Mayavada line. The sannyāsa order is to be accepted from another sannyāsī. So it does not mean that now Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu is following Mayavaad. He gave mercy to Keshava Bharathi by taking sanyas from him.
So actually Srila Prabhupad blessed Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj by taking sannyas from him. We can see from the history that Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur took Sanyas from Photo of Gaura Kishor Das Babaji maharaj, so Srila Prabhupaad would have done the same thing as it was directly ordered by His spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur. Why Srila Prabhupad did not do so? thats because caste goswamis at that time did not accept Srila Bhaktisiddhanth Saraswathi Thakur's sannyasa as proper, because they were vapuvadis, so it is very well understood that Srila Prabhupad made Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj bonafide by taking sannyasa from him.
I hope this meets u in best
Your servant
I don't mean to deter faith in Lord Krishna. I am worried / discouraged though.
Why is there so much politics?
I am on the side of Sri Krishna, and I thought every Vaisnava is also?
How do we know who is sincere? I always thought all of 64 Gaudiya Maths established by Srila Bhaktisiddhantha Sarasvati Thakurji are bonafide.
How do we know the difference?
Please forgive me if I am offending anyone by asking this question.
Your Servant,
Bhakta David
Hare Krishna David Prabhuji
Sorry for delay in replying as I was out of town.
It is very obvious that we become discouraged by knowing these facts in the beginning, even I was discouraged, but this is kaliyuga and finding a sincere and pure devotee is very very difficult.
Bhaktisiddhantha Sarasvati Thakurji's 64 mats were bonafide till Bhaktisiddhantha Sarasvati Thakurji's physical departure. When disciples of Bhaktisiddhantha Sarasvati Thakurji did not hear to their spiritual master's words as mentioned in above letter, they became useless, so mercy coming from higher authority stopped and so they could not preach.
How do we know who is sincere? One who is following instructions of his spiritual master and acting according to it with full conviction is sincere.
Your servant
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