Posted by GOKUL on January 4, 2011 at 7:38pm in Krishna
The path of spiritual realization is undoubtedly difficult. The Lord, therefore, advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself. No one can be a bona fide spiritual master without following this principle of disciplic succession. The Lord is the original spiritual master, and a person in the disciplic succession can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple. No one can be spiritually realized by manufacturing his own process as is the fashion of the foolish pretenders.
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very sweet quotes...page 45,sri vrindavana dhama...A Transcendental Dairy by hari sauri das....Srila Prabhupada offers this....
Preaching is also not very differ cult because you haven't got to manufacture anything.Everything is there ,and it is chaitanya mahaprabhus order.Caitanya Mahaprabhu also took sannyasa at a early age,twenty four years old only.So he has practically shown by his activities how to preach krishna conciousness all over the world.
And he gives order to everyone,amara anaya guru hana tara ei desa....In which ever country you may live ,it doesn't matter.TRY TO DELIVER THEM BY BECOMING GURU'' and HOW ONE BECOMES GURU?That is also very easy.....SRI CHAITANYA MAHAPRABHU SAYS..YARE DEKHA TARE KAHA -UPADESA''You haven't got to manufacture anything. Simply you try to repeat the instruction of bhagavad gita,krishna -upadesa.Noy only Bhagavad gita,there are nany other instructions .Especially Bhagavad gita.SO IF YOU SIMPLY CARRY THE MESSAGE OF BHAGAVAD GITA,THEN YOU BECOME GURU.Dont manufacture anything.Then it will be spoiled. Man-mana bhava mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru 'You can ,everyone can,say this...Krishna says,''you always think of me.So you can repeat only.You can say to others,''My dear sir please think of krishna''it doesn't require very much education.Simply just like a peon carry the message.Sir you always think of krishna'Then you become guru! .
One of the most significant lessons taught by Srila Prabhupada is about the position of guru or acharya. According to the vedic tradition, this subject is at vital concern to anyone who desires to pursue the spiritual path. To emphasize the importance of the guru or acharya, he repeatedly instructed in his books, lectures, letters and recorded room conversations.
He has quoted a verse from the Padma Purana in one of his books:
- The "Guru" must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are 3 classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class. The first class devotee is the spiritual master of all kinds of people.
He has also taught how the guru or acharya has to be regarded by the disciples;
* The conclusion isthat an empowered spiritual guru should therefore be considered as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. (C.C madhya10.136)
yuga_avatar_das > Punitha BhuvanadasJanuary 11, 2011 at 4:20am
"Now, they're competent. They can, not only the swamis, even the grihasthas, they are called dasa adhikari, and brahmacaris, everyone can, whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciples.
"But as a matter of etiquette they do not do...so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread. They can recruit more members in this. They do, but they are being trained up. Just like here in this meeting, one of my disciples, he is acting as priest. It is not myself; he is acting. So some of my students, they are acting as priests, some of them are swamis, so they are competent to make disciples."
--Srila Prabhupada, July 18, 1971.....
Sorry, it was a room conversation in Detroit, July 18, 1971. It is on the Vedabase. The voice recording is available.
Srila Prabhupada is talking to one graduate student named Mohsin Hassan, who is writing a thesis about the Hare Krishna...movement.
So everyone of Srila Prabhupadas sincere followers can act as guru.....in time they will become qualified,in my opinion many are preaching in a far more substantial way then any archarya has previously!
"Guru means inner guru. The first conception of guru is not the whole thing. ...It has to change gradually. The primary teacher, then higher education teacher. The teaching is continuing. The teacher's position is that he is coming to teach me. If I am alert, we can find that what he is teaching me. Physically that may be changed, but education of a particular department may grow. The teachers may be changed, (but) the flow inside the teachers is one and the same.
We shall try to find out guru, and the guru is inside also... that is caitya guru. Caitya guru will help us know the real guru with the development. The principle of guru is one and the same, but according to my progress the external aspect may change. It is told that the Lord Himself is Guru. He has come to make Himself known to me. My sincere hankering to know Him has moved His heart and He's coming to accept me through His agents. He Himself is Guru.
The potency of distributing Himself to others... that potency is Guru. That aspect of the Supreme which makes Himself known to the others, that function of Him is Guru. According to my capacity it may change. So our Guru parampara is siksa parampara. Mahāprabhu, then Swarup Damodar, then Rūpa, Sanatan, then comes Ragunath, Kavirāja Goswāmī , siksa guru parampara.
According to our inner sincerity, the current is coming and what is suiting my taste... santa, dasya, sakya, vātsalya, madhurya, we are to accept that current. Even other religions also, Muslim, Christian. In this way, according to his inner capacity he changes guru, creed, all these things. Comparative study does not mean that all comparisons are true. The real comparison must be there if we can leave Christianity and accept Vaisnavism."
~ Srila Sridhar Maharaj
So here is a very sweet guru appreciation from Srila Prabhupadas intimate freind and wellwisher.....,another is when advaita acharya prabhu called to Krishna and balarama(the original spiritual master).Thus even though sleeping upon the ocean of milk he responded to nadas calls for him(balarama )to descend as Nitai along with gaura in the chaitanya caritamrita!
Srila Prabhupada is Founder Acharya of ISKCON. He comes under Brahma-Madhava Sampardaya. Before Him there are many Gurus coming in disciplic succession directly from Brahma ji. This is the aspect which makes ISKCON an authentic sampardaya and we are receving the authentic knowledge about Krishna.
So Guru-Shishya parampara is there and it is not finished after Srila Prabhupada. Those who believe that Srila Prabhupada is the last Guru actually trying to break this parampara and once you are cut-off from the roots you cannot survive for a long. One day the cut-off part will die without achieving the real goal i.e. Krishna.
Stay with the roots. There are so many pure devotees and Gurus in ISKCON who have given their whole life for the orders of their spiritual master so we should follow them instead of getting misguided by those who always do Vaishnava Ninda. The whole purpose of Krishna conciousness is to get the pure Love of Krishna and not to grow the feeling of haterdness for anyone especially Vaishnavas.
Srila Prabhupada continued...''He explained that being uneducated or even illiterate was not a hinderance to solving the problems of life.One need simply hear the srimad bhagavatam from the archarya.Sukadeva himself never went to school.''Our real point is that sukadeva was not a grammarian,but he learned everything from his farther by hearing.Therefore it is called ''sruyamanayam''.If you hear from the right person,properly ,then you become perfect.There is no need of literary education.Therefore Vedas are called''sruti.''Formerly the students ,their memory was so nice and sharp that simply by hearing from gurus mouth they would learn.In the kaliyuga ,because the memory is not so strong Vyasadeva recorded this in writing.
So unless we come to the parampara system,''acarya after archarya'',there is no right education.Therefore Caitanya mahaprabhu's private secretary ,personal secretary Svarupa Damodara,he advised ''bhagavat para giya bhagavat sthane.if you want to learn Srimad bhagavatam,you go to a person whose life is bhagavatam.Grantha-bhagavata and person bhagavata---both of them bhagavatas.
''ist canto chapter 5 text 23,Page 268...naradas instructions on srimadbhagavatam''....Srila Prabhupadas ...bhaktivedanta purport!
''Fromthe personal example of Sri Narada muni in his previous birth,it is clear that the service of the lord begins with the service of the lords bonifide servants.The Lord says that the service of his servants is greater than his personal service.Service of the devotees is more valuable than the service of the lord.One should therefore choose a bonifide servant of the lord constantly engaged in his service,accept such a servant as the spiritual master and engage himself in his(spiritual masters) service.Such a spiritual master is the transparent medium by which to visualise the lord,who is beyond the conception of the material senses.By service of the bonifide spiritual master,the lord consents to reveal himself in proportion to the service rendered.''
yuga_avatar_das > manmath kumar nayakJanuary 9, 2011 at 12:03pm
Within iskcon we have inumerable pure devotees,and yes some of those like my guru tamala-krishna goswami ,whom was possibly the foremost servant of Srila Prabhupada gave me substantial guidance and siksa.He became my siksa...instructing spiritual master,and over the last thirty odd years i have tried to serve in a humble way,though disqualified and lacking in genuine sincerity.However iskcon is not part of the ritvick-proxy school of heresy,fortunately we have had sufficent training at the gurukula to accept the sublime nature of the iskcon parampara.Which is technically described as the Chaitanya -Saraswati siksa-bhagavat parampara!Hence we accept we should follow .... as the example of Sri Chaitanya mahaprabhu suggests,even though bhagavan himself,he also accepted diksa from isvara puri goswami.Why....since he is krishna should even he accept the parampara...?Simply to set the perfect example for all of us ,especially my most foolish self!He took a guru,so it is an eternal line and it is also expected that if you are sincere you submit and accept a bonifide servant of Srila Prabhupada as your master!
- Before he left this world in 1977, the worlwide movement he had established was only a little over 11 years old.
His senior most disciples were all westeners and were exposed to vedic culture only for the last 6-10 years. In 1977, his senior disciples were in their early or midthirties and assisting Srila Prabhupada in managing the worlwide institution.
Srila Prabhupada was fully aware that his disciples did not possess the spiritual qualifications to be raised to the position of great acharya or guru.
Srila Prabhupada emphasized that it is the vedic tradition that one becomes a guru or acharya when one is authorised by his own guru. Therefore Srila Prabhupada appointed 11 senior disciples that will act in the psition of "representative of the acharya" for the purpose of performing initiations. One of them was His Holiness Tamala Krsna Goswami Prabhu.
These representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada.
Therefore it is conclude here, that there is no one other Srila Prabhupada that can claim themselves as "Guru" upon the departure of Srila Prabhupada.
Hari Bol.
yuga_avatar_das > Punitha BhuvanadasJanuary 11, 2011 at 4:17am
I claim to be a guru,because my guru told me to become one....he waspersonally told by Srila Prabhupada himself.His name was tamala-krishnagoswami....Now because i accepted his order as my life and soul ,withkrishnas mercy i now humblt try and lead my family and my temple.Imight not be an uttama adhikara devotee ,but to my team i accept theresponsibility to serve the best way i can.Am i a guru....according to your veiw possibly not!But iskcon has thousands of sincere vaisnavas whom are preaching,and are uttama-adhikara devotees in my veiw.Simply Punitha Bhuvanadas you are an neophyte whom has become contaminated with falsethis bhogus ritvick-proxy heresy and its demoniac appreciations.Sri CHAITANYA MAHAPRABHU took a personally present guru...isvara puri goswami...why...?He was bhagavan,he had no need to accept a guru.But he chose to, simply to instruct us....everyone must accept a personally present guru.That is the clear instructions of the previous acharyas....
Replies
Preaching is also not very differ cult because you haven't got to manufacture anything.Everything is there ,and it is chaitanya mahaprabhus order.Caitanya Mahaprabhu also took sannyasa at a early age,twenty four years old only.So he has practically shown by his activities how to preach krishna conciousness all over the world.
And he gives order to everyone,amara anaya guru hana tara ei desa....In which ever country you may live ,it doesn't matter.TRY TO DELIVER THEM BY BECOMING GURU''
and HOW ONE BECOMES GURU?That is also very easy.....SRI CHAITANYA MAHAPRABHU SAYS..YARE DEKHA TARE KAHA -UPADESA''You haven't got to manufacture anything.
Simply you try to repeat the instruction of bhagavad gita,krishna -upadesa.Noy only Bhagavad gita,there are nany other instructions .Especially Bhagavad gita.SO IF YOU SIMPLY CARRY THE MESSAGE OF BHAGAVAD GITA,THEN YOU BECOME GURU.Dont manufacture anything.Then it will be spoiled.
Man-mana bhava mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru 'You can ,everyone can,say this...Krishna says,''you always think of me.So you can repeat only.You can say to others,''My dear sir please think of krishna''it doesn't require very much education.Simply just like a peon carry the message.Sir you always think of krishna'Then you become guru!
.
Hare Krishna,
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
One of the most significant lessons taught by Srila Prabhupada is about the position of guru or acharya. According to the vedic tradition, this subject is at vital concern to anyone who desires to pursue the spiritual path. To emphasize the importance of the guru or acharya, he repeatedly instructed in his books, lectures, letters and recorded room conversations.
He has quoted a verse from the Padma Purana in one of his books:
- The "Guru" must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are 3 classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class. The first class devotee is the spiritual master of all kinds of people.
He has also taught how the guru or acharya has to be regarded by the disciples;
* The conclusion isthat an empowered spiritual guru should therefore be considered as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. (C.C madhya10.136)
"But as a matter of etiquette they do not do... so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread. They can recruit more members in this. They do, but they are being trained up. Just like here in this meeting, one of my disciples, he is acting as priest. It is not myself; he is acting. So some of my students, they are acting as priests, some of them are swamis, so they are competent to make disciples."
--Srila Prabhupada, July 18, 1971.....
Srila Prabhupada is talking to one graduate student named Mohsin Hassan, who is writing a thesis about the Hare Krishna... movement.
"Guru means inner guru. The first conception of guru is not the whole thing. ...It has to change gradually. The primary teacher, then higher education teacher. The teaching is continuing. The teacher's position is that he is coming to teach me. If I am alert, we can find that what he is teaching me. Physically that may be changed, but education of a particular department may grow. The teachers may be changed, (but) the flow inside the teachers is one and the same.
We shall try to find out guru, and the guru is inside also... that is caitya guru. Caitya guru will help us know the real guru with the development. The principle of guru is one and the same, but according to my progress the external aspect may change. It is told that the Lord Himself is Guru. He has come to make Himself known to me. My sincere hankering to know Him has moved His heart and He's coming to accept me through His agents. He Himself is Guru.
The potency of distributing Himself to others... that potency is Guru. That aspect of the Supreme which makes Himself known to the others, that function of Him is Guru. According to my capacity it may change. So our Guru parampara is siksa parampara. Mahāprabhu, then Swarup Damodar, then Rūpa, Sanatan, then comes Ragunath, Kavirāja Goswāmī , siksa guru parampara.
According to our inner sincerity, the current is coming and what is suiting my taste... santa, dasya, sakya, vātsalya, madhurya, we are to accept that current. Even other religions also, Muslim, Christian. In this way, according to his inner capacity he changes guru, creed, all these things. Comparative study does not mean that all comparisons are true. The real comparison must be there if we can leave Christianity and accept Vaisnavism."
~ Srila Sridhar Maharaj
So here is a very sweet guru appreciation from Srila Prabhupadas intimate freind and wellwisher.....,another is when advaita acharya prabhu called to Krishna and balarama(the original spiritual master).Thus even though sleeping upon the ocean of milk he responded to nadas calls for him(balarama )to descend as Nitai along with gaura in the chaitanya caritamrita!
Hare Krishna,
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada is Founder Acharya of ISKCON. He comes under Brahma-Madhava Sampardaya. Before Him there are many Gurus coming in disciplic succession directly from Brahma ji. This is the aspect which makes ISKCON an authentic sampardaya and we are receving the authentic knowledge about Krishna.
So Guru-Shishya parampara is there and it is not finished after Srila Prabhupada. Those who believe that Srila Prabhupada is the last Guru actually trying to break this parampara and once you are cut-off from the roots you cannot survive for a long. One day the cut-off part will die without achieving the real goal i.e. Krishna.
Stay with the roots. There are so many pure devotees and Gurus in ISKCON who have given their whole life for the orders of their spiritual master so we should follow them instead of getting misguided by those who always do Vaishnava Ninda. The whole purpose of Krishna conciousness is to get the pure Love of Krishna and not to grow the feeling of haterdness for anyone especially Vaishnavas.
Hari Bol
Amit Kapoor
So unless we come to the parampara system,''acarya after archarya'',there is no right education.Therefore Caitanya mahaprabhu's private secretary ,personal secretary Svarupa Damodara,he advised ''bhagavat para giya bhagavat sthane.if you want to learn Srimad bhagavatam,you go to a person whose life is bhagavatam.Grantha-bhagavata and person bhagavata---both of them bhagavatas.
''Fromthe personal example of Sri Narada muni in his previous birth,it is clear that the service of the lord begins with the service of the lords bonifide servants.The Lord says that the service of his servants is greater than his personal service.Service of the devotees is more valuable than the service of the lord.One should therefore choose a bonifide servant of the lord constantly engaged in his service,accept such a servant as the spiritual master and engage himself in his(spiritual masters) service.Such a spiritual master is the transparent medium by which to visualise the lord,who is beyond the conception of the material senses.By service of the bonifide spiritual master,the lord consents to reveal himself in proportion to the service rendered.''
Hare Krishna,
All Glores to Srila Prabhupada,
Srila Prabhupada's plan for sucession in ISKCON;
- Before he left this world in 1977, the worlwide movement he had established was only a little over 11 years old.
His senior most disciples were all westeners and were exposed to vedic culture only for the last 6-10 years. In 1977, his senior disciples were in their early or midthirties and assisting Srila Prabhupada in managing the worlwide institution.
Srila Prabhupada was fully aware that his disciples did not possess the spiritual qualifications to be raised to the position of great acharya or guru.
Srila Prabhupada emphasized that it is the vedic tradition that one becomes a guru or acharya when one is authorised by his own guru. Therefore Srila Prabhupada appointed 11 senior disciples that will act in the psition of "representative of the acharya" for the purpose of performing initiations. One of them was His Holiness Tamala Krsna Goswami Prabhu.
These representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada.
Therefore it is conclude here, that there is no one other Srila Prabhupada that can claim themselves as "Guru" upon the departure of Srila Prabhupada.
Hari Bol.
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