Hare Krsna ,
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
I am posting this discussion on basis of conclusions i recieved after talking with a devotee Darian Blue .
My question and conclusions according to his talks are :
1. Why devotee are trying yoga to realise god ,
this friend of mine was trying Kundalinini Yoga ,
It is so dangerous that , it can be life threatening if one is unable to control .
2. He was interested in getting Mystic Powers .
3. He studied nearly all scriptures , and finally concluded , God is Formless .
ISKCON are FANATIC . Prabhupada do not have right to be called Guru ,
He just Critisizes others faith . He is cheap Guru according to him .
4. He worships personal God , But God Is Formless To Him .
5. He said ISKCON knowledge is incomplete , they refer to selected scriptures , which are Vaishnavic .
6. How can i make devotees realise we are correct .
7. Are Emotions ,and experiences Reasonable To Understand God ?
we can experience anything , does that mean we know God ?
8. He made mockery of Mahaprabhu's Philosphy Achintya-Bheda Abheda .
Calling him a drama .
I do not want this person to leave but understand , he is not ready to understand .
Well i posted many questions ,but focus was on Yoga and my talks with him . As we all devotees were trying to convince him
Replies
I can't understand One thinG if this so-called modern scientific youth thinks that by Reading some of the Mayavadi version of Upanisads and vedantra sutra they came to the Conclusion that it is the Only Verdict of Vedas, Then they are really in half knowledge. There is a saying "A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS VER DANGEROUS".
Vedanta (including Upanisads and vedanta sutra ) talks about three kind of shruti (passages)
1. bheda (difference between sentinent, non-sentinent matter and Supreme Brahman)
2. Abheda ( Oneness between Living entitiy, matter and Supreme Brahman)
3. Ghataka Sruti ( The conclusion of the above two Passages thats is "SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS(ABHEDA) AND DIFFERENCE(BHDEA))
The simple example to understand SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE IS:
"Sunlight is coming out from sun, So in one sense Sun is the source of sunlight there for Sun is Sunlight , But we can't say sunlight is Sun."
"Milk can be transformed into Curd, But Curd is not Milk because we can't find all the qualities present in Milk is in Curd"
" Spark of Fire Born out of Fire, so Fire is spark, but Spark is not Fire but a part of it"
And This philosophy "SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE" of Mahaprabhu is perfectly supported by Prasthana Traya -Bhagavad Gita, Vedanta Sutra, Upanisads
BG 9.4: By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them(Simultaneous Oneness and Difference).
BG 9.5: And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.(Simultaneous Oneness and Difference)
Here are the verses of Brihad Aranakya Upanisads (one of the ten major Upanisads) saying "SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE"
'He whose body is the earth ... who controls the earth from within' (Br. U., 3.7.3)
'He whose body is the self ... He who controls the self from within' (Br. U. Madh., 3.7.22).
'He who dwells in the self ... whom the self does not know etc.,' (Br. U. Madh., 3.7.22).
Through the fear of Him the wind blows, through the fear of Him the sun rises, through the fear of Him Agni and Indra perform their duties' (Tai. U., 2.8.1).
NOW ONLY A FOOL CAN THINKS THIS PASSAGES OF UPANISADS REFERING TO THE INDIVIDUAL SELF , CAN ANY SANE MAN THINKS THAT BY FEAR OF A MINUTE INDIVIDUAL PERSON WIND BLOWS,AGNI,INDRA PERFORM DUTIES.
SO ADVAITIN PLEASE DON'T SHOW US YOUR HALF AND INCOMPLETE KNOWLEDGE, YOU WILL SIMPLY BE DEFEATED WITH VERSION FROM VEDANTA SUTRA , BHAGAVAD GITA AND UPANISADS
Hare Krishna Prabhu Ji. PAMHO. AGTSP.
I will point out some things Srila Prabhupada has clearly said about dealings with Mayavadis:
Prabhupada has made it clear in so many places that it is also our mission as his disciples to defeat the attacks of the Mayavadis:
“The unfortunate Māyāvādī cannot chant. They criticize, ‘This chanting is sentimentalism.’ Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu was criticized at Benares when He was chanting. You know the story. Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, a great Māyāvāda sannyāsī, he used to criticize that “This sannyāsī is sentimental. Sannyāsī’s business is reading Vedānta, but this sannyāsī is chanting and dancing.” So there was strong criticism. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu was arranged to meet this Māyāvāda sannyāsī, and He talked on Vedānta and He defeated him. And the sannyāsī , along with his 60,000 disciples, became His followers. So you should not be simply chanting and dancing. Along with, you must know philosophy. There are so many Māyāvādīs; you have to defeat them It is not that we are cowards. We are Kṛṣṇa’s soldiers. So as soon as there is Māyāvādī attack, you must immediately defeat them. That is wanted. Therefore so many books are being written. (SB 2.3.20 Lecture June 16 1972)
The Mayavadi philosophy is very attractive, and once one has heard it his chances of becoming a devotee are practically destroyed:
“Caitanya Mahāprabhu warns that māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Anyone who listens to the commentary of the Māyāvādī philosopher, then his fate is doomed. He is finished. He will never be able to understand bhakti philosophy. It is so poisonous.”
“Reading the Māyāvādī commentaries on Vedānta-sūtra is always dangerous. The chief danger is that through these commentaries one may come to consider the living entity to be equal to the Supreme Lord. It is easy for a conditioned living entity to be falsely directed in this way, and once he is so directed he can never come to his actual position or enjoy his eternal activity in bhakti yoga. In other words, the Māyāvādī philosophy has rendered the greatest disservice to humanity by promoting the impersonal view of the Supreme Lord. Thus Māyāvādī philosophers deprive human society of the real message of Vedānta-sūtra.”
“Māyāvādī means māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: “Their knowledge has been taken away by māyā.” Fools. Either you call them fool or call them lowest of the mankind or the most sinful, whatever way you can call, they are like that. All good qualifications. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: [Cc. Madhya 6.169] “If you hear from Māyāvādī, then your spiritual life is finished.” It’s so dangerous.”
“Lord Caitanya immediately informed Prakāśānanda that in the modern age people in general are more or less bereft of all spiritual intellect. When such people come under the influence of Śaṅkarācārya’s Māyāvādī (impersonalist) philosophy before beginning the most confidential Vedānta-sūtras, their natural tendency toward obedience to the Supreme is checked. The supreme source of everything is naturally respected by everyone, but this natural tendency is hampered when one takes to the impersonalist conceptions of Śaṅkara. Thus the spiritual master of Lord Caitanya suggested that it is better that one not study the Śārīraka-bhāṣya of Śaṅkarācārya, for it is very harmful to people in general. Indeed, the common man does not even have the intelligence to penetrate into the jugglery of words. He is better advised to chant the mahā-mantra: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. In this quarrelsome age of Kali there is no alternative for self-realization.”
SP Letter to Jayapataka (April 30, 1970)
"One time when Prabhupada was at Bhaktivedanta Manor, a Mayavadi sannyasi came to visit. Srila Prabhupada received him graciously, and they had some discussion. When the man departed, he deliberately left behind a big stack of pamphlets. The pamphlets contained a little essay on the monistic doctrine that "all is one," defying the direct meaning of the Vedic scriptures and completely omitting Lord Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
The next afternoon, Prabhupada met with the devotees as usual. His practice was to receive a very big plate of fruit and nuts, take some himself, and then ask a disciple to distribute the maha-prasadam to all the devotees. On this particular day, Prabhupada called for the pamphlets. The devotees were surprised-"Why is Prabhupada calling for these pamphlets?" When they were brought in, Srila Prabhupada said, "Distribute one to each of the devotees." The devotees were bewildered, as the Mayavadi pamphlets were distributed to one and all. Then Prabhupada said, "Everyone take a pamphlet, open it up and put it in your hand." He took a few fruits from the plate, began eating them, and then indicated that the rest should be distributed. He said the devotees should use the pamphlets as paper plates. One of the devotees mentioned later that Prabhupada was practicing yukta-vairagya by this simple act. He had found a useful purpose for the atheistic tracts, simultaneously ridiculing their author and yet engaging him in devotional service. Srila Prabhupada Nectar 3.30
Dealing with Mayavadis
Then the other sannyasi (Mayavadi) began speaking. Suddenly Srila Prabhupada looked at us and said, "Start kirtana immediately." So we got up in the middle of the sannyasi's speaking and started kirtana. "He was preaching impersonal philosophy and I could not tolerate it," Prabhupada said. Lilamrta V, p.92
Your Servant.
Hari Bol!!!
:D Jai Prabhupad!!!
Hare Krishna !! my humble pranAms to the bhagawan and the bhagavathas,
1> People who are trained in material world knowledge (science) and then take to study scriptures are attracted generally to advaita. The reason is Science reduces all phenomenon to the interaction of matter and energy. Matter is inert(no activity) and needs energy to manifest or act and then energy is formless, but one can realize transformation of matter and energy but one can't see the controller of all (which is the force as presence of force is seen in action). Advaita is similar in the sense that Prakruthi(equivalent to matter) and shakthi(equivalent to energy or maya) are the basis and the controller is formless as one can't see. That's the reason why Advaita seems to attract more people. Advaita, thus is a partial truth as it hides the personality of godhead which can be truly seen only in devotion. As only devotion attracts Krishna and He becomes ready to reveal Himself. Till then, we can't be blessed with His divine darshan.
2> His case that ISKCON is selective in scriptures and that too only Vaishnavic scriptures is true because Vaishnavic scriptures glorifies devotion and that's the only path to reach Krishna. Everything else is not necessary as it may only delay the process of reaching Krishna. To emphasize that and promote Bhakthi, HH Srila Prabhupada was very critical of all non-vaishnavic scriptures and termed them "Mayavadic" or "not authorized".
3> All experiences have one result - they either pull us towards Krishna or pull us towards Maya. Only knowledge of Krishna and devotion to Him can help us realize that and take conscious decisions. So emotions, experience and feelings have their role to play in the above result.
4> Kundalini Yoga is a sacred science that has come from Krishna through the Vedas. Lord shiva and shakthi use the process to maintain the material universe and this kundalini is also present in each human body. While the 7 chakras in the body are progressively opened, no doubt we obtain mystic powers, but sustenance and control of it is another question. Only true devotion to Krishna can help us manage that. Though Arjuna and Ashwattama knew to use brahmastra, only Arjuna knew how to safely revoke it. Ashwattama lost everything ultimately not knowing how to revoke it. That's the danger we have. Again mystic powers are possessions that can give us pride anytime until it is put to use in the service of Krishna.
In loving service to Krishna and Krishna bhakthas,
Suresh