"Working hard like an Ass"

Hare Krishna! Is it appropriate for iskcon or any one to use insulting words like "working hard like an ass" against atleast indians? because times have changed & we have no option but to follow the changing times. moreoever india isnt responsible for the present degraded condition. whatever is done is by western people. Let us see how indirectly iskcon is served.

It is because of the hard work by people that the govt extract taxes & it purchases automatic weapons, tanks, fighter jets, & other weapons of mass destruction. in this way the temples are protected & we are all more or less safe.

The taxes are used in airports, trains, bus,ships etc etc which every one uses. The taxes are used also in medicines which every one consumes. These are few examples.

Now as far as sense gratification & serving maya is concerned then it is better to do that & along with KC so that we gradually rise rather than taking a long jump & falling so badly that it defames iskcon & the person himself.

Hare Krishna Devotees. Dandavat Pranam. All Glories To Srila Prabhupada

Sometimes public expression of unadultered truth in speech may seems unpalatable and harsh to most of the sane people, It is true. As this words directly punch the false-ego of a person , so this words easily hurt that person and make him/her upset even sometimes lows his/her self esteem, It is no doubt true. Then it is obvious to human physcology to feel bad when false ego hurts. And at that time it is natural to react on concerned subject matter and to the speaker in negative way if proper information is not available from earlier about that subject matter. It is manytime happens that a speaker trying to convey a subject in positive sense, but the audience may not able to accept the underlying meaning of the same subject in proper perspective , and hence percieve a totally different meaning of that subject concern and conceive the whole matter in wrong way. It happens so because of not having proper Information.

Now here as the question has arised as many times arised previously also, that why Iskcon devotees sometimes use so harsh and rude words while addressing materialistic persons outside. Because yes words like "ass" "cow" "Rascal" "Hogs" are apparently looking and is insulting in nature. So any sane man will react if anyone call him by this words and with no reason.

"Admi Ghabra Jayega, Are Boss maine Kya galti Kar diya yeh log toh mujhe Gadha se bhi chota

kar raha hai.................... :)"

Even some times objected to Srila Prabhupada's statement also, sometimes people felt and still also feeling that his words are very Heavy. But its really happened. So we must know and there should be clarity why these kinds of words often Devotee use in Iskcon, What is the source behind it,and whom they use this kind of words , all this. Thus atleast One should better know Iskcon and not misunderstand things and not go away from Iskcon. we must solve such conflict of opinion with bonafide evidence rather than speaking our mind to establish why this kind of words is in use, Lets go one by one:

Why Iskcon devotees use such words ?

Iskcon devotees uses such words not out of their own mental concoction , it is not their own creation rather Scriptures speaks about this . Now let us see the evidence.

SB 10.84.13

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradishu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janeshv abhijneshu sa eva go-kharah

Translation

One who identifies his self as the inert body composed of mucus, bile and air, who assumes his wife and family are permanently his own, who thinks an earthen image or the land of his birth is worshipable, or who sees a place of pilgrimage as merely the water there, but who never identifies himself with, feels kinship with, worships or even visits those who are wise in spiritual truth -- such a person is no better than a cow or an ass.

Purport

True intelligence is shown by one's freedom from false identification of the self. As stated in the Brihaspati-samhita,

ajnata-bhagavad-dharma
mantra-vijnana-samvidah
naras te go-khara jneya
api bhu-pala-vanditah

"Men who do not know the principles of devotional service to the Supreme Lord should be known as cows and asses, even if they are expert in technically analyzing Vedic mantras and are adored by world leaders."

SB 5.26.10

Purport

There are two classes of men absorbed in the material concept of life. Out of ignorance, a man in the first class thinks his body to be his self, and therefore he is certainly like an animal (sa eva go-kharah). The person in the second class, however, not only thinks his material body to be his self, but also commits all kinds of sinful activities to maintain his body. He cheats everyone to acquire money for his family and his self, and he becomes envious of others without reason. Such a person is thrown into the hell known as Raurava.

SB 2.3.19

sva-vid-varahoshtra-kharaih samstutah purushah pasuh
na yat-karna-pathopeto jatu nama gadagrajah

"Men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who never listen to the transcendental pastimes of Lord Sri Krishna, the deliverer from evils."

BG 7.15

Purport

The mūḍhas are those who are grossly foolish, like hardworking beasts of burden. They want to enjoy the fruits of their labor by themselves, and so do not want to part with them for the Supreme. The typical example of the beast of burden is the ass. This humble beast is made to work very hard by his master. The ass does not really know for whom he works so hard day and night. He remains satisfied by filling his stomach with a bundle of grass, sleeping for a while under fear of being beaten by his master, and satisfying his sex appetite at the risk of being repeatedly kicked by the opposite party. The ass sings poetry and philosophy sometimes, but this braying sound only disturbs others. This is the position of the foolish fruitive worker who does not know for whom he should work. He does not know that karma (action) is meant for yajña (sacrifice).

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So all the evidence given above are from most authenticated Vedic scriptures and not Iskcon view point, its rather traditional Vedic viewpoint , Now second question arise, to whom this verses are uses ? If we go through all the above quotes and any Vedic authorites, we will see that it is spoken about a materialistic person. Now what is the defination of Materialistic person?

A materialistic person is one, who works hard in this world only to satisfy his self interest, either self-oriented or self-extended. Self oriented is when works only to fullfill his demand of body ( like overeating, illicit sex, intoxication) and self-extended is when He works for his family,wife, children, then for community, society , Nation ( this is subtle lust for enjoyment of Power, Fame, Name, Status Que in society etc).

And to maintain all the mentioned above things that person works very Hard, because to maintain enjoyment pertaning to body requires money, and to gather money Hard labour is required. And in that endavour he forgets that Human form of life means "Athato Brhma Jingasa" means "Human formof life mean to enquiry about truth only and not for hard work". So shastra calls him cows, or ass because devoid of Devotion and dedication of life to God hard labour is nothing but "Shrama eba hi Kebalam" only failure like cow and ass. That man is no better than cow and Ass.
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Now the question may arise that all person has to work very hard in todays situation, so should we use these words for everyone?

No. The answer is No, because there are difference between person who work hard only for sense gratification with the person who works also hard outside , but who just earn to maintain his family with minimum required necessities and use rest of the portion of his results of work in Propogating the message of Lord in whatever way he can , whatever amount he can according to his capacity. For them this words are not applicable.

_------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the doubt arised from the controversy of using words is almost clear now and justification is given with evidence. Now One question may arise why Shastra use such term , just to insult them?

The answer is No. Shastra use it because to wake up a sleeping man. And for their good only. Devotees don't say you rascal, ass , you are materialistic , you rot in Hell. Rather they say why are you doing this rascal dom ? This is compassion , try to understand. They want to stop the suffering of that person, because they are in knowledge. Thats why they say don't work hard like cow and asses just to satisfy your senses, rather engage yourself in service of lord instead of wasting money just to Buy bodily comfort.

The whole reply was for clarification purpose , not for debating ..........Further doubt will definitely be answered. We want people wake up from their sleep of ignorance , Not the other way around.

Your aspiring servant

Hari Bol

Replies

Sharanagat May 29, 2012 at 12:43am

Hari Bol!

It is all understood Siddhartha Prabhu jee. Not sure of others, but I tend to ignore trolls in general and especially if one is hiding behind Prabhupada's lectures to twist and present his ego, I reject it thoroughly. They are worse than Ritwiks.

What hurts me is to see a person of your calibre and strata, unable to control frustration. If you feel frustrated, read Prabhu Nityananda's incident with two gundas Jagai and Madhai:

http://www.vaisnava.com/sbr_magn.html

Prabhu jee, I request you to draw inspiration from Prabhu Nityananda. One Vaishnava lost here may not be a loss to Sudipta Prabhu jee's ego. But one lost even for a minute is a loss for us all.

Prabhu jee, I humbly plead you to ignore such ignorant and ego driven people in name of Sri Hari, your name is Siddhartha. Let us follow the path of Prabhupada.

Your humble servant,

Sharanagat
Sharanagat May 28, 2012 at 7:47pm

Hari Bol! Very well put Prabhu jee. Although I doubt that message will ever go through think skinned people.

Keep up your good work and be kind.

Your servant,

Sharanagat
Volunteer

Sudipta Roy May 28, 2012 at 6:17pm

Hare Krishna Devotees. Dandavat Pranam. All Glories To Srila Prabhupada

Sometimes public expression of unadultered truth in speech may seems unpalatable and harsh to most of the sane people, It is true. As this words directly punch the false-ego of a person , so this words easily hurt that person and make him/her upset even sometimes lows his/her self esteem, It is no doubt true. Then it is obvious to human physcology to feel bad when false ego hurts. And at that time it is natural to react on concerned subject matter and to the speaker in negative way if proper information is not available from earlier about that subject matter. It is manytime happens that a speaker trying to convey a subject in positive sense, but the audience may not able to accept the underlying meaning of the same subject in proper perspective , and hence percieve a totally different meaning of that subject concern and conceive the whole matter in wrong way. It happens so because of not having proper Information.

Now here as the question has arised as many times arised previously also, that why Iskcon devotees sometimes use so harsh and rude words while addressing materialistic persons outside. Because yes words like "ass" "cow" "Rascal" "Hogs" are apparently looking and is insulting in nature. So any sane man will react if anyone call him by this words and with no reason.

"Admi Ghabra Jayega, Are Boss maine Kya galti Kar diya yeh log toh mujhe Gadha se bhi chota

kar raha hai.................... :)"

Even some times objected to Srila Prabhupada's statement also, sometimes people felt and still also feeling that his words are very Heavy. But its really happened. So we must know and there should be clarity why these kinds of words often Devotee use in Iskcon, What is the source behind it,and whom they use this kind of words , all this. Thus atleast One should better know Iskcon and not misunderstand things and not go away from Iskcon. we must solve such conflict of opinion with bonafide evidence rather than speaking our mind to establish why this kind of words is in use, Lets go one by one:

Why Iskcon devotees use such words ?

Iskcon devotees uses such words not out of their own mental concoction , it is not their own creation rather Scriptures speaks about this . Now let us see the evidence.

SB 10.84.13

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradishu bhauma ijya-dhih
yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij
janeshv abhijneshu sa eva go-kharah

Translation

One who identifies his self as the inert body composed of mucus, bile and air, who assumes his wife and family are permanently his own, who thinks an earthen image or the land of his birth is worshipable, or who sees a place of pilgrimage as merely the water there, but who never identifies himself with, feels kinship with, worships or even visits those who are wise in spiritual truth -- such a person is no better than a cow or an ass.

Purport

True intelligence is shown by one's freedom from false identification of the self. As stated in the Brihaspati-samhita,

ajnata-bhagavad-dharma
mantra-vijnana-samvidah
naras te go-khara jneya
api bhu-pala-vanditah

"Men who do not know the principles of devotional service to the Supreme Lord should be known as cows and asses, even if they are expert in technically analyzing Vedic mantras and are adored by world leaders."

SB 5.26.10

Purport

There are two classes of men absorbed in the material concept of life. Out of ignorance, a man in the first class thinks his body to be his self, and therefore he is certainly like an animal (sa eva go-kharah). The person in the second class, however, not only thinks his material body to be his self, but also commits all kinds of sinful activities to maintain his body. He cheats everyone to acquire money for his family and his self, and he becomes envious of others without reason. Such a person is thrown into the hell known as Raurava.

SB 2.3.19

sva-vid-varahoshtra-kharaih samstutah purushah pasuh
na yat-karna-pathopeto jatu nama gadagrajah

"Men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who never listen to the transcendental pastimes of Lord Sri Krishna, the deliverer from evils."

BG 7.15

Purport

The mūḍhas are those who are grossly foolish, like hardworking beasts of burden. They want to enjoy the fruits of their labor by themselves, and so do not want to part with them for the Supreme. The typical example of the beast of burden is the ass. This humble beast is made to work very hard by his master. The ass does not really know for whom he works so hard day and night. He remains satisfied by filling his stomach with a bundle of grass, sleeping for a while under fear of being beaten by his master, and satisfying his sex appetite at the risk of being repeatedly kicked by the opposite party. The ass sings poetry and philosophy sometimes, but this braying sound only disturbs others. This is the position of the foolish fruitive worker who does not know for whom he should work. He does not know that karma (action) is meant for yajña (sacrifice).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So all the evidence given above are from most authenticated Vedic scriptures and not Iskcon view point, its rather traditional Vedic viewpoint , Now second question arise, to whom this verses are uses ? If we go through all the above quotes and any Vedic authorites, we will see that it is spoken about a materialistic person. Now what is the defination of Materialistic person?

A materialistic person is one, who works hard in this world only to satisfy his self interest, either self-oriented or self-extended. Self oriented is when works only to fullfill his demand of body ( like overeating, illicit sex, intoxication) and self-extended is when He works for his family,wife, children, then for community, society , Nation ( this is subtle lust for enjoyment of Power, Fame, Name, Status Que in society etc).

And to maintain all the mentioned above things that person works very Hard, because to maintain enjoyment pertaning to body requires money, and to gather money Hard labour is required. And in that endavour he forgets that Human form of life means "Athato Brhma Jingasa" means "Human formof life mean to enquiry about truth only and not for hard work". So shastra calls him cows, or ass because devoid of Devotion and dedication of life to God hard labour is nothing but "Shrama eba hi Kebalam" only failure like cow and ass. That man is no better than cow and Ass.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now the question may arise that all person has to work very hard in todays situation, so should we use these words for everyone?

No. The answer is No, because there are difference between person who work hard only for sense gratification with the person who works also hard outside , but who just earn to maintain his family with minimum required necessities and use rest of the portion of his results of work in Propogating the message of Lord in whatever way he can , whatever amount he can according to his capacity. For them this words are not applicable.

_------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the doubt arised from the controversy of using words is almost clear now and justification is given with evidence. Now One question may arise why Shastra use such term , just to insult them?

The answer is No. Shastra use it because to wake up a sleeping man. And for their good only. Devotees don't say you rascal, ass , you are materialistic , you rot in Hell. Rather they say why are you doing this rascal dom ? This is compassion , try to understand. They want to stop the suffering of that person, because they are in knowledge. Thats why they say don't work hard like cow and asses just to satisfy your senses, rather engage yourself in service of lord instead of wasting money just to Buy bodily comfort.

The whole reply was for clarification purpose , not for debating ..........Further doubt will definitely be answered. We want people wake up from their sleep of ignorance , Not the other way around.

Your aspiring servant

Hari Bol
Darian Blues May 28, 2012 at 10:25am

Brother that is exactly correct. Things like "working hard like an ass" in no way should be used to insult people whether indian or not. Even the demigods are performing functions and cannot escape from there duties. If all of a sudden the Demigod Vayu said let me give up my function because "why work hard like an ass" what will happen to us and all life? Serving God goes far beyond any organization. Serving God is universal in nature, even a rock serves God. Everything in this universe has a function and is obliged to perform that function for the sake of the Lord. Everything in life is important and sacred. Throwing insults around does not speak highly of ones proximity to God.

This reply was deleted.