Hare Krishna ,AGTSP,This is very important question ,Why Vaishnav Acharyas Do Not Give Examples From Purans Dedicated To Shiva ..Except Skand Puran ..Every Shivaities Ask Me This Question ,When I Explain About Shiva & Krishna ,They Say Shiva I Never Born ,But i am taught ,that he comes from ' Bhrakuti ' Of Bhrama ..I aslo know Bhrama Samhita ,But Shivaities Are Against Us,Because We Discuss Only Those Things That Are In Favour To Promote Krishna ..Then They Also Ask Onething , Why didSrila Prabhupad Says ' Shiva Is A Demigod , Vishnu Is God ' ..I Need This Answer , Shivaities Always Argue With On This Strategy ..They Says You Just Want To Remove Shiva From Supremeness,When I Tell Them About What Did Mahadev Tell In Padam Puran ,They Say It Is Dedicated To Vishnu Not Shiva ..I Am Confused " Ekal Ishwara Krishna , Anya Sab Bhrattiya "Why Not Every Thing Straight Forward ,Answer Me Something From Purans & Upnishad Dedicated To Lord Shiva ..
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Lord Shiva is the top most devotee of Krsna. He is a mahajana. We can say to Shaivaites that Lord Shiva is very dear to Lord Krsna and very merciful. So we always ask him to shower benediction of giving us Krsna bhakti....
Hare Krishna!!!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!!!
Please correct me if m wrong.... the only planet free from old age and death is Vaikunth or Goloka Dham where our beloved Krishna resides...Lord shiva is the greatest vaishnawa but he is not in a position of give liberation... Devotees of Lord Shiva even after reaching Lord Shiva's planet afte sometime have to come in earth again as Lord Shiva's planet is too not free from old age and death...
Hare Krishna. PAMHO. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Adapted from Shri Padma Purana, Uttara Khanda Chapters 235-236.
Parvati Said, "O Lord Shiva, You once told me that one should avoid speaking with Pasandi atheistic demon,and that doing so is worse then talking to candalas outcastes. Please tell me of what are the symptoms of such persons and what signs do they wear on their bodies?"
Shiva replied,"Those Persons who,deluded by ignorance,describe any other deity being superior to Vishnu,The Lord of the world, are said to be Pasandis. Those who,although they do not belong to the Vanaprastha asrama, use skulls, decorate their bodies with ashes and bones, have non-Vedic marks, matted hair, and wear garments of tree bark, are said to be pasandis. Those brahmanas who are devoid of the marks and symbols dear to Vishnu, such as conches, discs,and vertical-lined tilaka worn on the forehead, are said to be pasandis. That brahman who does not follow the practices given in the sastra should be known as a pasandi and should be condemned by all people. Those who have no devotion for the Lord are said to be pasandi. One who behaves as he likes and offers oblations in to the fire for the worship of deities other than Lord Vishnu should be known as a pasandi, for Lord Vishnu is the enjoyer of fruit of all sacrifices and is the deity of brahmanas. He who considers Lord Vishnu as equal to other deities such as Brahma and myself, Rudra,should always be called a pasandi. That brahmana, who with his speech, body,and deeds dose not recognize Vishnu,is a pasandi. What is the use of saying much in this regard? Those brahmanas who are not devotees of Vishnu should never be asked any questions, should never be talked to,and should never be seen,"
Parvati said,"O lord,O best of gods,I want to ask you something secret. Through love for me,please answer. I have a great doubt.The sastras condemn using skulls, decorating the body with ashes, and wearing skins of animals. Yet,you do all these things. Why are these thing condemned? O Lord of the gods, O highly intelligent one, due to women's natural fickleness I am asking you these questions. It may be that due to your great power you do not have to follow the sastric injunctions you just described, but previously you had not instructed me in this way. Therefore,O lord, please pardon my question."
Inquired thus by Pavati in that lonely place free from people,Lord Shiva explained to her the great secrets of his own behavior. Shiva said, "O Goddess, please listen carefully. I shall tell you a very wonderful secret. You should not repeat what I am about to tell you to common people. I shall tell you the since your body is not separate form mine. Long ago, in the age of Swayambhuva Manu, there were many great demons like Namuchi [The demon Namuchi is described in Shrimad Bhagavatam 8.11.23-40.] who were very powerful and valorous heroes. All of them were devoted to Vishnu, acted purely, and were free from all sins. They followed the pratices laid down in the Vedas. Seeing this, all of gods head by Indra were greatly frustrated. Overcome by fear,they approached Lord Vishnu and took shelter of Him.
"The devas said,'O Kesava, only You can conquer these great demons who cannot be conqured by all of the gods and who have washed off their sins with penance.'"
Lord Shiva continued, "Hearing the frightful words of the demigods, Lord Vishnu, Purushottma consoled the devas,and said to me,'O Rudra,O you of might arms, O you who are the best of the gods, for the purpose of deluding the enemies of the demigods prepere a course of conduct to be followed by pasandis. Narrate to them the dark puranas, which will take them astray. O intelligent one, you should create holy texts that will cause the demons to become confused.
"'Through devotion to Me,and for the good of the world, You should approach atheistic sages such as Kanada, Gautama,Sakti, Upamanyu, Jaimini, Kapila,[not to be confused with Kapila,the son of Devahuti], Durvasa, Mrikandu, Brihaspati, Bhargava, and Jamadagni. Exert upon them your power of suggestion. Being infused by your power they will become powerful pasandis. There is no doubt about it. Empowered by you, these brahmanas will narrate to the three worlds the Puranas and doctrines in the mode of ingnorance. O Shiva, on your person you should bear symbols like a skull, animal skins, ashes, and bones. Dressed in way you should fully delude everyone in the three Worlds. You should also inaugurate the pasupata order [The pasupates are a group of followers of Lord Shiva] with its divisions like kankala, saiva, pasanda and mahasaiva. Through these persons you should preach a doctrine whose followers wear no particular identifying marks and are outside the Vedic fold. Wearing ashes and bones, they will be bereft of higher consciousness and will consider you to be the greatest god.
"'Taking to these doctrines, all of these demons will become averse to Me in a moment.There is no doubt it. O powerful Rudra,in every age in My different incarnations I too shall worship you to delude the demons. Following these doctrines,they will undoubtedly fall down.'"
Lord Shiva then told Parvati, "O beautiful one, after hearing Lord Vishnu's words, although I am a good speaker I become helpless snd silent.Then offering my obeisances to Lord Vishnu, I said, O Lord,if I do what You have said,it will certainly lead to my destruction. It is is not possoble for me to carry out this instruction, yet Your order is not to be disobeyed. This is very Painful."
"O goddess,hearing my words, Vishnu spoke in such way to restore my happiness. He said,'This will not be the cause of your destruction. Do as I order you for the good of the demigods. I shall also give you the means to maintain yourself while you are preaching these demoniac philosophies. Then with compassion, Lord Vishnu gave me the prayers known as Vishnu-sahasra-nama. Vishnu said,'Installing Me in your heart, utter My indestructible mantra. This very powerful six-syllable mantra is transcendental and awards liberation to thise who worship Me with devotion. There is no doubt about this.'
pita-vastram catur-bahum janaki-priya-vallabham shri-ramaya nama ity evam uccaryam mantram-uttamam
sarva-duhkha haram caitat papinam api mukti-dam imam mantram japan nityam amalas tvam bhavisyasi
I offer my obeisances to Him, dark like the petal of a blue lotus, with lotus-petal eyes, holding a conch, a disc, and sarnga bow, adorned with all ornaments, wearing yellow ornements, having four arms, and who is the dear lord of Janaki, Sita-devi.The divine mantra, 'shri-ramaya namah,' should be chanted. It remones all lamentation and gives salvation to even sinners. One who regularly chants this mantra will be free from all contamination.[6.235.44-46]
"'All of the sinful rections due to wearing ashes and bones will all be destroyed and everthing will beacome auspicious due to reciting My mantra. O best of the gods, being pleased I shall destroy all sin. By My blessings, devotion to no other god than Me will arise. In your heart, worship Me who is the Supreme Being. Obey My order. Due to love for Me, everything will be auspicious for you. 'Having thus ordered Me, O goddess, He dismissed the hosts of gods who then returned to their own abodes. The gods led by Indra then requested me, 'O Mahadev, Shiva, Quickly perform those beneficial acts as instructed by Lord Vishnu.'"
Mahadeva then said to goddess Parvati, "O auspicious one, for the good of the gods I took to the way of the pasandis and started wearing skulls, hides, ashes, and bones. O auspicious one, as instructed by Lord Vishnu, I distributed the tamasic puranas and the pasandi Shiva doctrines. O sinless one, by entering Gautama and other brahmanas with my potency I proclaimed texts outside the Vedic fold. Adopting the system I gave, all of the wicked demons became averse to Lord Vishnu, and were enveloped in ignorance. Applying ashes to their bodies and performing severe penance, they stopped worship of Lord Vishnu and worshiped only me with flesh, blood and sandalwood.
"Receiving boons from me, they became intoxicated with power and pride. They were very much attached to the object of the senses, and were full of lust and anger. In that condition, devoid of goodness, they were defeated by the devas. Bereft of righteous paths, those who resort to this doctrine of mine alway go to hell.
"O goddess, thus this behavior of mine is only followed by me for the good of the gods. Following Lord Vishnu's order, I decorate myself with ashes and bones. O goddess, these external marks are meant only for deluding the demons. In my heart I always meditate upon the Supreme Lord Vishnu and always chant His mantras. By chanting this great six-syllable mantra I taste the eternal nectar of ecstatic joy. O Lady with an auspicious face, I have answered all that you have asked me. Affectionately I ask you, what else do you desire to hear?"
Parvati said, "O sinless one, tell me about the tamasic scriptures that were composed by the brahmanas bereft of devotion to the Lord. O Lord of the demigods Please tell me their names in sequence.
Lord Shiva replied, "O goddess, please listen. In sequence I shall tell you about the tamasic texts. Simply by remembering them even wise persons become deluded. First,I Myself proclaimed the Shiva, pasupata, and related texts. After my power had entered him, Kanada preached the Vaisesika Philosophy. Similarly, Gautama preached Nyaya,and Kapila preached the atheistic Sankhya. Brihaspati preached the much-censured Charvaka doctrine, and Buddha proclaimed Buddhism to destroy the demons.
"Mayavada or Advaita philosophy is an impious, wicked belief and against all the conclusions of the Vedas. It is only covered Buddhism. My dear Parvati, in Kali-Yoga I assume the form of a brahmana (Adi Shankara) and teach this imagined philosophy.
sarva-karma paribhrastair vaidharma tvam tad ucyate paresa-jiva-paraikyam maya tu pratipadyate
"This mayavada advaita philosophy preached by me (in form of Adi Shankara) deprives the words of the holy texts of their actual meaning and thus it is condemned in the world. It recommends the renunciation of one's own duties, since those who have fallen from their duties say that the giving up of duties is religiosity. In this way, I have also falsely propounded the identity of the Supreme Lord and the individual soul."
"In order to bewilder the atheists, in Kali-yuga, I describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Gauranga Krishna to be without any form and without qualities."
Padma Purana 6.236.11
vedante tu maha-sastrera mayavadam avaidikam mayaiva vaksyate devi jagatam nasha-karanat
"Similarly, in explaning Vedanta mahashastra, I described the same non-scriptural and inauspicious mayavada philosophy in order to mislead the entire population toward atheism by denying the personal form of my beloved Lord."
[As described in the seventh chapter of adi-lila of Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita, while speaking to Prakashananda Saraswati and the mayavadi sannyasis of Benares, Lord Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu cited these texts to show how Lord Shiva had come in Kali-yuga as Shripad Sankaracharya to propound the philosophy of monism and bewilder the souls. Cited translation of texts 7,10 and 11 are based on the translation of His Divine Grace Shrila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as found in his purport to Cc. Adi 7.110.]
One of the great saints who gave us Draavida Veda, Thirumazhisai Azhvar or Sri BhakthisAra (this title given by Paarvatipati Lord Shiva Himself), has clearly stated the positions of other demi-gods with reference to Sriman Narayana or Sri Krishna.
In his Tamil work "nAnmugan thiruvandhAdhi", Sri BhakthisAra first explains how both Sivan and his father Brahma are also included into the category of mortal souls according to the Vedas. Both Sivan and Brahma were created to help in strongly establishing worldly activities of creation and destruction. “But Oh! My fellow beings now I will advise you the right way to get out of this cycle of life and death. So list en to me and get uplifted,” instructs Azhvar.
All the chEtanAs and achEtanAs including Brahma, Rudra and all the devathas are created and destroyed by nArAyana and he stays as antharyAmi inside each one of them. While analyzing about this the maharishis came to a conclusion, “tattvam jignAsamAnAnAm hethubis sarvathOmukai: I thatvamEkO mahAyOgee harir nArAya: smrutha: II” (Those who want to know about the paramathma, due to many reasons consider only that Srihari who is a mahAyogi and otherwise called as nArAyana: as the ultimate god.) So the final judgement of the rishis is that there is no three gods and the only ultimate god is Sriman nArAyana.
It is for sure that some of the Vedic verses declare one Siva as the supreme but shouldn’t you all just analyse if that Siva said in the Vedas is the same as the Siva you all think? During the VAmana/Trivikrama avathara of nArAyana, the divine feet of emperuman reached the abode of Brahma. To honour emperuman Brahma washed the divine feet of nArAyana. The water started flowing as the divine river Ganga. To make himself pure Siva held this river ganga on his head. “thriveebhUdhas thathA dharmO hari bhakthyA mahAmunE.......varshAyudhAyatha bhahoon na mumOcha that hA hara: II” [rishi srEshta! (While BhagavAn was pleased) at that time due to the bhakthi towards Hari dharma became water. For the happiness of the jagannAtha, (me called as Brahma) took that water of dharmA and washed His divine feet with great bhakthi. Looking at the falling water Siva decided “I am eligible to be cleansed” and held the water in the center of his hair lobe(jata). Then he retained it for many thousands of years]. Thus declares Brahma in Ishwara Samhitha. The word Siva means one who has purity by nature. Shouldn’t we analyse if the Rudra you refer to as Siva have this divine purity always?
Hare Krishna Ashwani Prabhuji,
questions regarding supremecy of Krishna and Shiva used to bewilder me too.But one learned Prabhuji told me that our previous Achryas has confirmed that all 18 puranas are classified into 3 categories considering three modes(Gunas) Sattwik, Rajsik and Tamasik. We all know that Lord Shiva is one of the three principle deities of this material world and He has been given responsibility of TamoGuna so it is oobvious that Shastras and Puranas glorifying Him are Tamsik too. Shiva Purana is one of them.
And Srimad Bhagwatam is the principle most amongst sattwik Puranas. Since Vaishnavas are Sattwik so they prefer it and do not consider other scriptures. In Srimad Bhagwatam Canto 1.Chapter 2 ,shloka 26, Srila Prabhupada gives answer to your question:
mumukñavo ghora-rüpän
hitvä bhüta-patén atha
näräyaëa-kaläù çäntä
bhajanti hy anasüyavaù
TRANSLATION
Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they
respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and
worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Viñëu and His plenary portions.
PURPORT
The Supreme Personality of Godhead Çré Kåñëa, who is the original person
of the Viñëu categories, expands Himself in two different categories, namely
integrated plenary portions and separated parts and parcels. The separated
parts and parcels are the servitors, and the integrated plenary portions of
viñëu-tattvas are the worshipful objects of service.
All demigods who are empowered by the Supreme Lord are also separated
parts and parcels. They do not belong to the categories of viñëu-tattva. The
viñëu-tattvas are living beings equally as powerful as the original form of the
Personality of Godhead, and They display different categories of power in
consideration of different times and circumstances. The separated parts and
parcels are powerful by limitation. They do not have unlimited power like the
viñëu-tattvas. Therefore, one should never classify the viñëu-tattvas, or the
plenary portions of Näräyaëa, the Personality of Godhead, in the same
categories with the parts and parcels. If anyone does so he becomes at once an
offender by the name päñaëòé. In the age of Kali many foolish persons commit
such unlawful offenses and equalize the two categories.
The separated parts and parcels have different positions in the estimation
of material powers, and some of them are like Käla-bhairava,
Çmaçäna-bhairava, Çani, Mahäkälé and Caëòikä. These demigods are
worshiped mostly by those who are in the lowest categories of the mode of
darkness or ignorance. Other demigods, like Brahmä, shiva, Sürya, Ganesha and
many similar deities, are worshiped by men in the mode of passion, urged on by
the desire for material enjoyment. But those who are actually situated in the
mode of goodness (sattva-guëa) of material nature worship only viñëu-tattvas.
Viñëu-tattvas are represented by various names and forms, such as Näräyaëa,
Dämodara, Vämana, Govinda and Adhokñaja.
The qualified brähmaëas worship the viñëu-tattvas represented by the
shälagräma-shilä, and some of the higher castes like the kñatriyas and vaiçyas also
generally worship the vishnu-tattvas.
Highly qualified brähmanas situated in the mode of goodness have no
grudges against the mode of worship of others. They have all respect for other
demigods, even though they may look ghastly, like Käla-bhairava or Mahäkäli.
They know very well that those horrible features of the Supreme Lord are all different servitors of the Lord under different conditions, yet they reject the
worship of both horrible and attractive features of the demigods, and they
concentrate only on the forms of Vishnu because they are serious about
liberation from the material conditions. The demigods, even to the stage of
Brahmä, the supreme of all the demigods, cannot offer liberation to anyone.
Hiranyakasipu underwent a severe type of penance to become eternal in life,
but his worshipful deity, Brahmä, could not satisfy him with such blessings.
Therefore Vishnu, and none else, is called mukti-päda, or the Personality of
Godhead who can bestow upon us mukti, liberation. The demigods, being like
other living entities in the material world, are all liquidated at the time of the
annihilation of the material structure. They are themselves unable to get
liberation, and what to speak of giving liberation to their devotees. The
demigods can award the worshipers some temporary benefit only, and not the
ultimate one.
It is for this reason only that candidates for liberation deliberately reject
the worship of the demigods, although they have no disrespect for any one of
them.
As Hridayananda Prabhu said that one should himself study shastras ,sorry but I disagree with that....In Vedas it is written that "tad-Vigyanartham sa-gurumevabhigacchet"..for understanding shastras we must approach spiritual master who is true vaishnava...We must learn Bhagwad Geeta,Srimad Bhagwatam and other Vedic scriptures in the guidance of True Vaishnav Bhaktas and none other and not by our own because this may lead to dry mental speculation deviating us from Bhakti-marg,the only way to reach Krishna.
remember Prabhu all acharyas and Lord Chaitanya Himself has explained us and have not left any space for confusion. Lord Chaitanya Himself says 'Ekal Ishwar Krishna aar sab Bhritya'...only Krishna is Supreme ,rest are all His servitors(including Shiva also). And also He says "Jivera Swaroop hoy Krishna nitya das"...our eternal constitutional position is being Krishna's servant(not any other demiGod's servant) so why should we worship anybody else.
yes we can observe Shivaratri and worship Shiva ,but this too is similar to occasions like appearance day or disappearance days of Vaishnavas. We need not worship Shiva as Shaivas do because Shaivas worship Himconsidering Him Supreme God but we worship Him considering Vaishnava,,,so there is difference.
Those who says that doing or worshipping any form of God give one goal are called rascals by Srila Prabhupad ji and all Vaishnavs because all paths are not True Bhakti-marg but most of them are Mayawad and Shaivism is one of them. The logic is very crystal clear those who can surrender unto Krishna are Bhakt and those wandering here and there are under illusiory potency(Mayadevi) of Krishna. Since Shaivas have not surrendered to Krishna directly so they are not pure devotees. yes I agree to Hridayanand Prabhu that they will attain krishna bhakti when Lord Shiva will give them that,but it is very rare,since they do not ask Him for that.They just want their material wants to be fulfilled.
When a Vaishnava devotee worship Shiva,his aim is to gain Krishna-Bhakti but Shaivas do not ask for that---this is the difference. We should be firm in our krishna bhakti and in parampara of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
I agree with the namapradhas. Please kindly give me some examples from where these have been taken from. I need to do some research based on it. As Swami Vivekananda says," Until you see something yourself, Don't believe in it. Experience and then, Believe Firmly"
Krishna is all prevading, Supreme Personality. He does not hold Cakra as such. Confirmed knowledge says Vishnu, Narayana holds Sudarshan Cakra. Krishna or Shiva have only difference in their features, Bhagvan and brahma. They have eternal Cakra, they don't hold it officialy. Vishnu holds officially. If you ask any Shaiva, you will come to know SIVA HAS ALL WEAPONS AS KRISHNA. Visnu tattva or Siva tattva may be incomplete, but Siva and Krishna are Complete and One, Non-dual. So Sripada Sankaracarya, the direct expansion of Sri Sankara never has lied. This is not mockery, it's a truth. Vaishnavas should know the truth. As Jesus christ(pbuh) is direct expansion of Krishna, so is case with Sankara.
I would like to humbly request you that you read Srimad Bhagvatam yourself, rather than any one's help. Of course Guru is greater than Govind, but the Soul within you is part of Govind himself. Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but these philosophers actually take away bhakti and rather place Arguments. It's known to all that the scripture is submitted to Supreme Personality of Godhead. If it is Ganesh Purana it is Om Namo Ganeshaya Namah. This argument that OM NAMO BHAGVATE NAHAH is simply Mudhata, foolishness. Now, she said that Krishna name is most auspicious (Confirmed in Bhagvatam). So I agree with it. See here Prabhu, If you yourself read Srimad Bhagvatam you'll understand the real meaning of it. Sometimes philosophers and thinkers give their own way thinking others are unaware. Hope you consider my word.
Replies
Lord Shiva is the top most devotee of Krsna. He is a mahajana. We can say to Shaivaites that Lord Shiva is very dear to Lord Krsna and very merciful. So we always ask him to shower benediction of giving us Krsna bhakti....
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!!!
Please correct me if m wrong.... the only planet free from old age and death is Vaikunth or Goloka Dham where our beloved Krishna resides...Lord shiva is the greatest vaishnawa but he is not in a position of give liberation... Devotees of Lord Shiva even after reaching Lord Shiva's planet afte sometime have to come in earth again as Lord Shiva's planet is too not free from old age and death...
Hari Bol
Your servant
Amit Mehra
LORD SHIVA. part 1.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 2.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 3.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 4.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 5.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 6.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 7.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
----------------------
LORD SHIVA. part 8.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 9.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 10.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 11.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
LORD SHIVA. part 12.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/group/krishnaconsciousness/forum/to...
TEACHINGS FROM THE SHIVA PURANA.
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Hare Krishna. PAMHO. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Adapted from Shri Padma Purana,
Uttara Khanda Chapters 235-236.
Parvati Said, "O Lord Shiva, You once told me that one should avoid speaking with Pasandi atheistic demon,and that doing so is worse then talking to candalas outcastes. Please tell me of what are the symptoms of such persons and what signs do they wear on their bodies?"
Shiva replied,"Those Persons who,deluded by ignorance,describe any other deity being superior to Vishnu,The Lord of the world, are said to be Pasandis. Those who,although they do not belong to the Vanaprastha asrama, use skulls, decorate their bodies with ashes and bones, have non-Vedic marks, matted hair, and wear garments of tree bark, are said to be pasandis. Those brahmanas who are devoid of the marks and symbols dear to Vishnu, such as conches, discs,and vertical-lined tilaka worn on the forehead, are said to be pasandis. That brahman who does not follow the practices given in the sastra should be known as a pasandi and should be condemned by all people. Those who have no devotion for the Lord are said to be pasandi. One who behaves as he likes and offers oblations in to the fire for the worship of deities other than Lord Vishnu should be known as a pasandi, for Lord Vishnu is the enjoyer of fruit of all sacrifices and is the deity of brahmanas. He who considers Lord Vishnu as equal to other deities such as Brahma and myself, Rudra,should always be called a pasandi. That brahmana, who with his speech, body,and deeds dose not recognize Vishnu,is a pasandi. What is the use of saying much in this regard? Those brahmanas who are not devotees of Vishnu should never be asked any questions, should never be talked to,and should never be seen,"
Parvati said,"O lord,O best of gods,I want to ask you something secret. Through love for me,please answer. I have a great doubt.The sastras condemn using skulls, decorating the body with ashes, and wearing skins of animals. Yet,you do all these things. Why are these thing condemned? O Lord of the gods, O highly intelligent one, due to women's natural fickleness I am asking you these questions. It may be that due to your great power you do not have to follow the sastric injunctions you just described, but previously you had not instructed me in this way. Therefore,O lord, please pardon my question."
Inquired thus by Pavati in that lonely place free from people,Lord Shiva explained to her the great secrets of his own behavior. Shiva said, "O Goddess, please listen carefully. I shall tell you a very wonderful secret. You should not repeat what I am about to tell you to common people. I shall tell you the since your body is not separate form mine. Long ago, in the age of Swayambhuva Manu, there were many great demons like Namuchi [The demon Namuchi is described in Shrimad Bhagavatam 8.11.23-40.] who were very powerful and valorous heroes. All of them were devoted to Vishnu, acted purely, and were free from all sins. They followed the pratices laid down in the Vedas. Seeing this, all of gods head by Indra were greatly frustrated. Overcome by fear,they approached Lord Vishnu and took shelter of Him.
"The devas said,'O Kesava, only You can conquer these great demons who cannot be conqured by all of the gods and who have washed off their sins with penance.'"
Lord Shiva continued, "Hearing the frightful words of the demigods, Lord Vishnu, Purushottma consoled the devas,and said to me,'O Rudra,O you of might arms, O you who are the best of the gods, for the purpose of deluding the enemies of the demigods prepere a course of conduct to be followed by pasandis. Narrate to them the dark puranas, which will take them astray. O intelligent one, you should create holy texts that will cause the demons to become confused.
"'Through devotion to Me,and for the good of the world, You should approach atheistic sages such as Kanada, Gautama,Sakti, Upamanyu, Jaimini, Kapila,[not to be confused with Kapila,the son of Devahuti], Durvasa, Mrikandu, Brihaspati, Bhargava, and Jamadagni. Exert upon them your power of suggestion. Being infused by your power they will become powerful pasandis. There is no doubt about it. Empowered by you, these brahmanas will narrate to the three worlds the Puranas and doctrines in the mode of ingnorance. O Shiva, on your person you should bear symbols like a skull, animal skins, ashes, and bones. Dressed in way you should fully delude everyone in the three Worlds. You should also inaugurate the pasupata order [The pasupates are a group of followers of Lord Shiva] with its divisions like kankala, saiva, pasanda and mahasaiva. Through these persons you should preach a doctrine whose followers wear no particular identifying marks and are outside the Vedic fold. Wearing ashes and bones, they will be bereft of higher consciousness and will consider you to be the greatest god.
"'Taking to these doctrines, all of these demons will become averse to Me in a moment.There is no doubt it. O powerful Rudra,in every age in My different incarnations I too shall worship you to delude the demons. Following these doctrines,they will undoubtedly fall down.'"
Lord Shiva then told Parvati, "O beautiful one, after hearing Lord Vishnu's words, although I am a good speaker I become helpless snd silent.Then offering my obeisances to Lord Vishnu, I said, O Lord,if I do what You have said,it will certainly lead to my destruction. It is is not possoble for me to carry out this instruction, yet Your order is not to be disobeyed. This is very Painful."
"O goddess,hearing my words, Vishnu spoke in such way to restore my happiness. He said,'This will not be the cause of your destruction. Do as I order you for the good of the demigods. I shall also give you the means to maintain yourself while you are preaching these demoniac philosophies. Then with compassion, Lord Vishnu gave me the prayers known as Vishnu-sahasra-nama. Vishnu said,'Installing Me in your heart, utter My indestructible mantra. This very powerful six-syllable mantra is transcendental and awards liberation to thise who worship Me with devotion. There is no doubt about this.'
indivar-dala-syamam padma-patra-vilocanam
sankhanga-sarngesu-dharam sarvabharana-bhusitam
pita-vastram catur-bahum janaki-priya-vallabham
shri-ramaya nama ity evam uccaryam mantram-uttamam
sarva-duhkha haram caitat papinam api mukti-dam
imam mantram japan nityam amalas tvam bhavisyasi
I offer my obeisances to Him, dark like the petal of a blue lotus, with lotus-petal eyes, holding a conch, a disc, and sarnga bow, adorned with all ornaments, wearing yellow ornements, having four arms, and who is the dear lord of Janaki, Sita-devi.The divine mantra, 'shri-ramaya namah,' should be chanted. It remones all lamentation and gives salvation to even sinners. One who regularly chants this mantra will be free from all contamination.[6.235.44-46]
"'All of the sinful rections due to wearing ashes and bones will all be destroyed and everthing will beacome auspicious due to reciting My mantra. O best of the gods, being pleased I shall destroy all sin. By My blessings, devotion to no other god than Me will arise. In your heart, worship Me who is the Supreme Being. Obey My order. Due to love for Me, everything will be auspicious for you. 'Having thus ordered Me, O goddess, He dismissed the hosts of gods who then returned to their own abodes. The gods led by Indra then requested me, 'O Mahadev, Shiva, Quickly perform those beneficial acts as instructed by Lord Vishnu.'"
Mahadeva then said to goddess Parvati, "O auspicious one, for the good of the gods I took to the way of the pasandis and started wearing skulls, hides, ashes, and bones. O auspicious one, as instructed by Lord Vishnu, I distributed the tamasic puranas and the pasandi Shiva doctrines. O sinless one, by entering Gautama and other brahmanas with my potency I proclaimed texts outside the Vedic fold. Adopting the system I gave, all of the wicked demons became averse to Lord Vishnu, and were enveloped in ignorance. Applying ashes to their bodies and performing severe penance, they stopped worship of Lord Vishnu and worshiped only me with flesh, blood and sandalwood.
"Receiving boons from me, they became intoxicated with power and pride. They were very much attached to the object of the senses, and were full of lust and anger. In that condition, devoid of goodness, they were defeated by the devas. Bereft of righteous paths, those who resort to this doctrine of mine alway go to hell.
"O goddess, thus this behavior of mine is only followed by me for the good of the gods. Following Lord Vishnu's order, I decorate myself with ashes and bones. O goddess, these external marks are meant only for deluding the demons. In my heart I always meditate upon the Supreme Lord Vishnu and always chant His mantras. By chanting this great six-syllable mantra I taste the eternal nectar of ecstatic joy. O Lady with an auspicious face, I have answered all that you have asked me. Affectionately I ask you, what else do you desire to hear?"
Parvati said, "O sinless one, tell me about the tamasic scriptures that were composed by the brahmanas bereft of devotion to the Lord. O Lord of the demigods Please tell me their names in sequence.
Lord Shiva replied, "O goddess, please listen. In sequence I shall tell you about the tamasic texts. Simply by remembering them even wise persons become deluded. First,I Myself proclaimed the Shiva, pasupata, and related texts. After my power had entered him, Kanada preached the Vaisesika Philosophy. Similarly, Gautama preached Nyaya,and Kapila preached the atheistic Sankhya. Brihaspati preached the much-censured Charvaka doctrine, and Buddha proclaimed Buddhism to destroy the demons.
Padma Purana 6.236.7
mayavadam asac chastram pracchannam bauddham uchyate
mayaiva kalpitam devi kalau brahmana rupina
"Mayavada or Advaita philosophy is an impious, wicked belief and against all the conclusions of the Vedas. It is only covered Buddhism. My dear Parvati, in Kali-Yoga I assume the form of a brahmana (Adi Shankara) and teach this imagined philosophy.
Padma Purana 6.236.8-9
apartham sruti-vakyanam darsayan loka-garhitam
sva-karma-rupam tyajya tvam atraiva pratipadyate
sarva-karma paribhrastair vaidharma tvam tad ucyate
paresa-jiva-paraikyam maya tu pratipadyate
"This mayavada advaita philosophy preached by me (in form of Adi Shankara) deprives the words of the holy texts of their actual meaning and thus it is condemned in the world. It recommends the renunciation of one's own duties, since those who have fallen from their duties say that the giving up of duties is religiosity. In this way, I have also falsely propounded the identity of the Supreme Lord and the individual soul."
Padma Purana 6.236.10
brahmanas caparam rupam nirgunam vaksyate maya
sarva-svam jagato py asya mohanartham kalu yuge
"In order to bewilder the atheists, in Kali-yuga, I describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Gauranga Krishna to be without any form and without qualities."
Padma Purana 6.236.11
vedante tu maha-sastrera mayavadam avaidikam
mayaiva vaksyate devi jagatam nasha-karanat
"Similarly, in explaning Vedanta mahashastra, I described the same non-scriptural and inauspicious mayavada philosophy in order to mislead the entire population toward atheism by denying the personal form of my beloved Lord."
[As described in the seventh chapter of adi-lila of Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita, while speaking to Prakashananda Saraswati and the mayavadi sannyasis of Benares, Lord Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu cited these texts to show how Lord Shiva had come in Kali-yuga as Shripad Sankaracharya to propound the philosophy of monism and bewilder the souls. Cited translation of texts 7,10 and 11 are based on the translation of His Divine Grace Shrila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as found in his purport to Cc. Adi 7.110.]
One of the great saints who gave us Draavida Veda, Thirumazhisai Azhvar or Sri BhakthisAra (this title given by Paarvatipati Lord Shiva Himself), has clearly stated the positions of other demi-gods with reference to Sriman Narayana or Sri Krishna.
In his Tamil work "nAnmugan thiruvandhAdhi", Sri BhakthisAra first explains how both Sivan and his father Brahma are also included into the category of mortal souls according to the Vedas. Both Sivan and Brahma were created to help in strongly establishing worldly activities of creation and destruction. “But Oh! My fellow beings now I will advise you the right way to get out of this cycle of life and death. So list en to me and get uplifted,” instructs Azhvar.
All the chEtanAs and achEtanAs including Brahma, Rudra and all the devathas are created and destroyed by nArAyana and he stays as antharyAmi inside each one of them. While analyzing about this the maharishis came to a conclusion, “tattvam jignAsamAnAnAm hethubis sarvathOmukai: I thatvamEkO mahAyOgee harir nArAya: smrutha: II” (Those who want to know about the paramathma, due to many reasons consider only that Srihari who is a mahAyogi and otherwise called as nArAyana: as the ultimate god.) So the final judgement of the rishis is that there is no three gods and the only ultimate god is Sriman nArAyana.
It is for sure that some of the Vedic verses declare one Siva as the supreme but shouldn’t you all just analyse if that Siva said in the Vedas is the same as the Siva you all think?
During the VAmana/Trivikrama avathara of nArAyana, the divine feet of emperuman reached the abode of Brahma. To honour emperuman Brahma washed the divine feet of nArAyana. The water started flowing as the divine river Ganga. To make himself pure Siva held this river ganga on his head. “thriveebhUdhas thathA dharmO hari bhakthyA mahAmunE.......varshAyudhAyatha bhahoon na mumOcha that hA hara: II” [rishi srEshta! (While BhagavAn was pleased) at that time due to the bhakthi towards Hari dharma became water. For the happiness of the jagannAtha, (me called as Brahma) took that water of dharmA and washed His divine feet with great bhakthi. Looking at the falling water Siva decided “I am eligible to be cleansed” and held the water in the center of his hair lobe(jata). Then he retained it for many thousands of years]. Thus declares Brahma in Ishwara Samhitha. The word Siva means one who has purity by nature. Shouldn’t we analyse if the Rudra you refer to as Siva have this divine purity always?
Jai SrI Krishna
Jai SrIman nArAyaNa
to believe what is written is truth.
questions regarding supremecy of Krishna and Shiva used to bewilder me too.But one learned Prabhuji told me that our previous Achryas has confirmed that all 18 puranas are classified into 3 categories considering three modes(Gunas) Sattwik, Rajsik and Tamasik. We all know that Lord Shiva is one of the three principle deities of this material world and He has been given responsibility of TamoGuna so it is oobvious that Shastras and Puranas glorifying Him are Tamsik too. Shiva Purana is one of them.
And Srimad Bhagwatam is the principle most amongst sattwik Puranas. Since Vaishnavas are Sattwik so they prefer it and do not consider other scriptures. In Srimad Bhagwatam Canto 1.Chapter 2 ,shloka 26, Srila Prabhupada gives answer to your question:
mumukñavo ghora-rüpän
hitvä bhüta-patén atha
näräyaëa-kaläù çäntä
bhajanti hy anasüyavaù
TRANSLATION
Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they
respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and
worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Viñëu and His plenary portions.
PURPORT
The Supreme Personality of Godhead Çré Kåñëa, who is the original person
of the Viñëu categories, expands Himself in two different categories, namely
integrated plenary portions and separated parts and parcels. The separated
parts and parcels are the servitors, and the integrated plenary portions of
viñëu-tattvas are the worshipful objects of service.
All demigods who are empowered by the Supreme Lord are also separated
parts and parcels. They do not belong to the categories of viñëu-tattva. The
viñëu-tattvas are living beings equally as powerful as the original form of the
Personality of Godhead, and They display different categories of power in
consideration of different times and circumstances. The separated parts and
parcels are powerful by limitation. They do not have unlimited power like the
viñëu-tattvas. Therefore, one should never classify the viñëu-tattvas, or the
plenary portions of Näräyaëa, the Personality of Godhead, in the same
categories with the parts and parcels. If anyone does so he becomes at once an
offender by the name päñaëòé. In the age of Kali many foolish persons commit
such unlawful offenses and equalize the two categories.
The separated parts and parcels have different positions in the estimation
of material powers, and some of them are like Käla-bhairava,
Çmaçäna-bhairava, Çani, Mahäkälé and Caëòikä. These demigods are
worshiped mostly by those who are in the lowest categories of the mode of
darkness or ignorance. Other demigods, like Brahmä, shiva, Sürya, Ganesha and
many similar deities, are worshiped by men in the mode of passion, urged on by
the desire for material enjoyment. But those who are actually situated in the
mode of goodness (sattva-guëa) of material nature worship only viñëu-tattvas.
Viñëu-tattvas are represented by various names and forms, such as Näräyaëa,
Dämodara, Vämana, Govinda and Adhokñaja.
The qualified brähmaëas worship the viñëu-tattvas represented by the
shälagräma-shilä, and some of the higher castes like the kñatriyas and vaiçyas also
generally worship the vishnu-tattvas.
Highly qualified brähmanas situated in the mode of goodness have no
grudges against the mode of worship of others. They have all respect for other
demigods, even though they may look ghastly, like Käla-bhairava or Mahäkäli.
They know very well that those horrible features of the Supreme Lord are all different servitors of the Lord under different conditions, yet they reject the
worship of both horrible and attractive features of the demigods, and they
concentrate only on the forms of Vishnu because they are serious about
liberation from the material conditions. The demigods, even to the stage of
Brahmä, the supreme of all the demigods, cannot offer liberation to anyone.
Hiranyakasipu underwent a severe type of penance to become eternal in life,
but his worshipful deity, Brahmä, could not satisfy him with such blessings.
Therefore Vishnu, and none else, is called mukti-päda, or the Personality of
Godhead who can bestow upon us mukti, liberation. The demigods, being like
other living entities in the material world, are all liquidated at the time of the
annihilation of the material structure. They are themselves unable to get
liberation, and what to speak of giving liberation to their devotees. The
demigods can award the worshipers some temporary benefit only, and not the
ultimate one.
It is for this reason only that candidates for liberation deliberately reject
the worship of the demigods, although they have no disrespect for any one of
them.
As Hridayananda Prabhu said that one should himself study shastras ,sorry but I disagree with that....In Vedas it is written that "tad-Vigyanartham sa-gurumevabhigacchet"..for understanding shastras we must approach spiritual master who is true vaishnava...We must learn Bhagwad Geeta,Srimad Bhagwatam and other Vedic scriptures in the guidance of True Vaishnav Bhaktas and none other and not by our own because this may lead to dry mental speculation deviating us from Bhakti-marg,the only way to reach Krishna.
remember Prabhu all acharyas and Lord Chaitanya Himself has explained us and have not left any space for confusion. Lord Chaitanya Himself says 'Ekal Ishwar Krishna aar sab Bhritya'...only Krishna is Supreme ,rest are all His servitors(including Shiva also). And also He says "Jivera Swaroop hoy Krishna nitya das"...our eternal constitutional position is being Krishna's servant(not any other demiGod's servant) so why should we worship anybody else.
yes we can observe Shivaratri and worship Shiva ,but this too is similar to occasions like appearance day or disappearance days of Vaishnavas. We need not worship Shiva as Shaivas do because Shaivas worship Himconsidering Him Supreme God but we worship Him considering Vaishnava,,,so there is difference.
Those who says that doing or worshipping any form of God give one goal are called rascals by Srila Prabhupad ji and all Vaishnavs because all paths are not True Bhakti-marg but most of them are Mayawad and Shaivism is one of them. The logic is very crystal clear those who can surrender unto Krishna are Bhakt and those wandering here and there are under illusiory potency(Mayadevi) of Krishna. Since Shaivas have not surrendered to Krishna directly so they are not pure devotees. yes I agree to Hridayanand Prabhu that they will attain krishna bhakti when Lord Shiva will give them that,but it is very rare,since they do not ask Him for that.They just want their material wants to be fulfilled.
When a Vaishnava devotee worship Shiva,his aim is to gain Krishna-Bhakti but Shaivas do not ask for that---this is the difference. We should be firm in our krishna bhakti and in parampara of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.
your servant
Ashish Sharma
Hare Krsna Prabhu,
I agree with the namapradhas. Please kindly give me some examples from where these have been taken from. I need to do some research based on it.
As Swami Vivekananda says," Until you see something yourself, Don't believe in it. Experience and then, Believe Firmly"
Vishnupadam Gacchhami...
Sorry to hear that Prabhu.
Krishna is all prevading, Supreme Personality. He does not hold Cakra as such. Confirmed knowledge says Vishnu, Narayana holds Sudarshan Cakra. Krishna or Shiva have only difference in their features, Bhagvan and brahma. They have eternal Cakra, they don't hold it officialy. Vishnu holds officially. If you ask any Shaiva, you will come to know SIVA HAS ALL WEAPONS AS KRISHNA. Visnu tattva or Siva tattva may be incomplete, but Siva and Krishna are Complete and One, Non-dual.
So Sripada Sankaracarya, the direct expansion of Sri Sankara never has lied. This is not mockery, it's a truth. Vaishnavas should know the truth. As Jesus christ(pbuh) is direct expansion of Krishna, so is case with Sankara.
Hope you get my point,
Ram Ram.
Dear Prabhu,
Hare Krishna.
I would like to humbly request you that you read Srimad Bhagvatam yourself, rather than any one's help. Of course Guru is greater than Govind, but the Soul within you is part of Govind himself. Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but these philosophers actually take away bhakti and rather place Arguments. It's known to all that the scripture is submitted to Supreme Personality of Godhead. If it is Ganesh Purana it is Om Namo Ganeshaya Namah. This argument that OM NAMO BHAGVATE NAHAH is simply Mudhata, foolishness.
Now, she said that Krishna name is most auspicious (Confirmed in Bhagvatam). So I agree with it.
See here Prabhu, If you yourself read Srimad Bhagvatam you'll understand the real meaning of it. Sometimes philosophers and thinkers give their own way thinking others are unaware. Hope you consider my word.
Hare Krsna!
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