“And whilst not coming into contact with Sûdras and remains of food; for this Gharma is he that shines yonder, and he is excellence, truth, and light; but woman, the Sûdra, the dog, and the black bird (the crow), are untruth: he should not look at these, lest he should mingle excellence and sin, light and darkness, truth and untruth.”
(Satapatha Brahmana 14:1:1:31)
Indra himself hath said, The mind of woman brooks not discipline, her intellect hath little weight.”
(Rig Veda 8:33:17)
therefore women are powerless, have no inheritance, and speak more humbly than even a bad man”
(Yajur Veda – Taittiriya Samhita 6:5:8:2)
I have found these quotes very hurting. I hope onn higher civilised planets women are not as discredited as here.
“And on the following day he goes to the house of a discarded (wife), and prepares a pap for Nirriti;–a discarded wife is one who has no son. He cooks the pap for Nirriti of black rice, after splitting the grains with his nails. He offers it with, ‘This, O Nirriti, is thy share: accept it graciously, hail!’ For a wife that is without a son, is possessed with Nirriti (destruction, calamity)“
(Satapatha Brahmana 5:3:1:13)
“Men must keep their women dependent day and night, and keep under their own control those who are attached to sensory objects. Her father guards her in childhood, her husband guards her in youth, and her sons guard her in old age. A woman is never fit for independence.“
(Manusmrti 9:2-4)
“Women donot care for beauty, nor is their attention fixed on age (thinking)“It is enough he is a man.” They give themselves to the handsome and to the ugly.”
“Through their passion for men, through their mutable temper, through their natural heartlessness, they become disloyal to their husbands, however they may be carefully guarded over this.”
(Manusmrti 9:14-15)
Replies
Hare Krishna...
All the statements that have been quoted may seem against women, but the truth is, women, by nature are like that. Its not the problem of women, but that is how they are born. So, the Vedas and the Smritis say how to protect them and how they have to be controlled so that they wouldn't fall prey easily because of their natural qualities. Women are born like that doesn't mean men can force them to do things or commit some violence against them. That is not accepted. Women have to be respected as they are but at the same time protected by the father/husband throughout her life.
Remember, the Vedas are based on one's natural qualities(gunas). The Vedas only reflect one's gunas and talk about them. So, it is logical and should not be understood that it has been written by some women hater.
Now, if you accept this or not, that is the truth.
Regards,
Subash
BG 2.45: The Vedas deal mainly with the subject of the three modes of material nature. O Arjuna, become transcendental to these three modes. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be established in the self.
The first step in spiritual understanding is to transcend the bodily concept of life. To think I am a man or I am a woman is to be in illusion. The body is a material dress for the soul, a dress that’s changing from moment to moment, as the body develops, and will change entirely at death. But the constant within the body is the soul, which is not subject to any of these changes...
If we think of ourselves as “women,” we reveal our ignorance of our actual identity. The word woman refers to the temporary material body, not to the eternal, spiritual soul, the person within the body. In maybe forty or sixty years, the body I’m wearing will perish, and I’ll no longer be a Woman. But the living force, the soul within the body, won’t perish...
All material activities involve actions and reactions in the three modes of material nature. They are meant for fruitive results, which cause bondage in the material world. The Vedas deal mostly with fruitive activities to gradually elevate the general public from the field of sense gratification to a position on the transcendental plane.When the activities for sense gratification, namely the karma-kāṇḍa chapter, are finished, then the chance for spiritual realization is offered in the form of the Upaniṣads, which are part of different Vedas, as the Bhagavad-gītā is a part of the fifth Veda, namely the Mahābhārata. The Upaniṣads mark the beginning of transcendental life.
Therefore women's in Krishna Conscious are already on elevated Platform, Krishna consciousness provides an understanding of the relationship between the soul and matter and the Supreme Soul, Krishna. Human intelligence is meant for contemplating these subjects, not for dwelling on materialistic thoughts based on a false identification with the temporary body...
From the spiritual viewpoint, men and women (and all other living entities) are equal. The soul within the body is part and parcel of Krishna and is equal in quality and quantity to all other souls. But from the material, bodily point of view, obviously there are differences...
In Bhagavad-gita Krishna says that both men and women are eligible to attain the highest destination, to return to the kingdom of God, if they take shelter of Him. Spiritually there’s no duality, no inferiority or superiority based on the body and mind. But there are material differences: women are generally not as physically strong as men, but only women can bear children and nourish them with their breast milk. So it’s natural that women’s duties will differ from men’s in some ways...
In more intimate relationships, the man protects the woman. In a woman’s youth, her father protects her; after marriage, her husband protects her; and later on in life her grown sons protect her.
Question arise here -- What do you mean, “protect” or "guard"?
Protect from illusion and degradation. That is real protection. When the father, husband, and sons are fully trained in spiritual principles by the spiritual master, they are qualified to guide their family members. And take them out from this bodily concept of life, we are eternal souls.
From material point of view also rules & regulation are must in order to elevate one-self on spiritual platform ....
However when the rules and regulation are broken then chastity and faithfulness of women are shaken. As men and women mix freely, the result is abortion and unwanted progeny. From such immorality and licentiousness come broken homes and the degradation of the whole society. Conversely, when the husband is a dedicated devotee of God and the wife is loyal, good progeny and a harmonious society result...
It is not like that only Vedas have such a concept ... In all religions we find similar things
1 Timothy 2:11-17--A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12-- I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
13-- For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
In Qur'an, surah 2:182 equates two women as substitute for one man, in matters requiring witnesses.
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" Allah's Apostle said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."
Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:6:301
The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:48:826
In times of Buddha
'No woman, with the two-finger wisdom (narrow) which is hers, could ever hope to reach those heights which are attained only by the sages.'
But it should be noted that these verses describe on lower platform (material plane)
Spiritually, There is no difference ...
The Buddha has confirmed that man is not always the only wise one; woman is also wise.
'When one's mind is well concentrated and wisdom never fails, does the fact of being a woman make any difference?'
"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "
Galatians 3:26-28
Quran, God clearly states that all humans are equal: “To whoever, male or female, does good deeds and has faith, We shall give a good life and reward them according to the best of their actions.” (16:97)
And ultimately Krishna says:-
Declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes.
Bg 9.32 — O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth – women, vaiśyas [merchants] and śūdras [workers] – can attain the supreme destination.
But why do women belong to lower birth? In my opinion a cow is equal with a woman too.
Take the word of the Lord
Bg 9.32 — O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth – women, vaiśyas [merchants] and śūdras [workers] – can attain the supreme destination.
Just Because im a Vaisya i cannot argue that i belong to higher birth, Go according to shastras Bhagavat gita & srimad bhagavatam.
In this modern age women want to be indipendent,Therefore the Exploitation of woman Starts,They lose their chastity,Protection in the run for their Eqality with men
Take the Truth ,It may be bitter if you are in a Womans Bodily digest it, but we are all souls firt ,
its for the well being of the society and spiritual progression > No need to make designations and fight over petty Issues
Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Madhya 13.80
TRANSLATION
"'I am not a brahmana, I am not a kshatriya, I am not a vaisya or a sudra. Nor am I a brahmacari, a householder, a vanaprastha or a sannyasi. I identify Myself only as the servant of the servant of the servant of the lotus feet of Lord Sri Krishna, the maintainer of the gopis. He is like an ocean of nectar, and He is the cause of universal transcendental bliss. He is always existing with brilliance.'"
PURPORT
This is verse 74 from the Padyavali, an anthology of verses compiled by Srila Rupa Gosvami.
SB 4.22.28
ātmānam indriyārthaṁ ca
paraṁ yad ubhayor api
saty āśaya upādhau vai
pumān paśyati nānyadā
Translation:
When the soul exists for sense gratification, he creates different desires, and for that reason he becomes subjected to designations. But when one is in the transcendental position, he is no longer interested in anything except fulfilling the desires of the Lord.
Purport:
Being covered by material desires, a spirit soul is also considered to be covered by designations belonging to a particular type of body. Thus he considers himself an animal, man, demigod, bird, beast, etc. In so many ways he is influenced by false identification caused by false egotism, and being covered by illusory material desires, he distinguishes between matter and spirit. When one is devoid of such distinctions, there is no longer a difference between matter and spirit. At that time, the spirit is the only predominating factor. As long as one is covered by material desires, he thinks himself the master or the enjoyer. Thus he acts for sense gratification and becomes subjected to material pangs, happiness and distress. But when one is freed from such a concept of life, he is no longer subjected to designations, and he envisions everything as spiritual in connection with the Supreme Lord. This is explained by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu (1.2.255):
anāsaktasya viṣayān
yathārham upayuñjataḥ
nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe
yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate
The liberated person has no attachment for anything material or for sense gratification. He understands that everything is connected with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and that everything should be engaged in the service of the Lord. Therefore he does not give up anything. There is no question of renouncing anything because the paramahaṁsa knows how to engage everything in the service of the Lord. Originally everything is spiritual; nothing is material. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Madhya 8.274) also it is explained that a mahā-bhāgavata, a highly advanced devotee, has no material vision:
sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti
sarvatra haya nija iṣṭa-deva-sphūrti
Although he sees trees, mountains, and other living entities moving here and there, he sees all as the creation of the Supreme Lord and, with reference to the context, sees only the creator and not the created. In other words, he no longer distinguishes between the created and the creator. He sees only the Supreme Personality of Godhead in everything. He sees Kṛṣṇa in everything and everything in Kṛṣṇa. This is oneness.
I understand you protect a cow. But still women are not kept as nice as cows.
And most parts of the Bible were changed by the women hater popes, priests. God will never stop any free will- even to a woman.
hare krishna,
dandvat pranaam,
Really wonderful reply by sagar prabhuji. I completely agree with you. As long as the soul is woman's body , the rules like maintaining chastity, purity etc apply and she can attain krishna under protection. In history there are great devotees like mother sita, devaki, yashoda etc who are under strict protection, but still achieved krishna. there was never slavery attitude, but it was a protection attitude of great kings towards women. The kurus were destroyed as they want to degradea great devotee draupadi, thereby they want to keep her as their slave. That resulted in their complete destruction.,HENCE WOMEN SHOULD BE CAREFULLY PROTECTED AT EVERY STEP OF LIFE.