Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam to all the Vaishnavajanas...
Please answer my query...
Why is Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu not specifically mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam, where all other incarnations are included ? Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has even Himself never said that he was Krishna.
Recently, I was questioned by a follower of a Sampraday that "You can not throw stones at the houses of others when your own house is made of glass."
He meant to say that we twist, distort and misinterpret the scriptures to prove our claim that Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is Krishna Himself and we are on a shaky foundation. Honestly, I have myself felt so. But it is due to blind faith in the words of Prabhupada and loyalty towards him that I used to argue.
Can any one throw a light in this regard ?
Your servant,
Harshikesh Bhattacharya
Replies
I am no longer associating with that brahmana scholar as it is affecting my faith in Prabhupada's words. I don't belong to Sri Sampradaya. I was born a Gaudiya Vaishnava. It was just that association with that learned brahmin Vaishnava hindered my faith in Prabhupada's words.
Dear Mihir Prabhuji,
HK & PAMHO,
It is quite natural for Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to worship Lord Krishna because He was Krishna Himself in the mood of Radha-rani and when he was in this mood, it is quite natural for Him to instruct all His followers, in the bhava of Radha-rani, to worship Sri Sri Radha-Krishna.
But since we have identified His true form, isn't it justifiable 'now' 'for us' to place the archa-vigraha of Gaura-Nitai in the central shrine of all ISKCON temples ? What is stopping us to do so ? That is my principle question.
If Sri Gaura-Nitai are Krishna-Balarama themselves, then what is wrong in installing their archa-vigraha in the central shrine of all ISKCON temples ? Since, there is non-difference in their form, no offence is likely to be committed in case we install 'Gaura-Nitai' in the central shrine.
Kindly answer prabhuji
HK
Ys
Harshikesh
Dear Mihir Prabhuji, can you please mention the location of the ISKCON temple in which Aindra Prabhuji and Lokanath Maharaj are performing kirtan. Why don't we replicate this model in other ISKCON temples ?
Also, Sri Gaura-Nitai are not in the central shrine of Sri Sri Radha Gopinatha temple, Girgaon Chowpatty.
YS
Hare Krishna !
Harshikesh
Mihir prabhuji, if Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is Krishna Himself and Lord Nityanand is Balarama, why don't we install their Archa-vigraha in the central shrine of all ISKCON temples ? Why don't we solely meditate upon them ? Why don't we read just Chaitanya Bhagavata ? If Gaura-Nitai are indeed Krishna-Balarama, we should have no qualms focussing completely on them ! Why we don't have enough confidence to single-mindedly focus only on them ? Lack of such confidence also indicates some amount of doubt in us regarding their status. Please answer.
ys
Harshikesh Bhattacharya
He is a south Indian brahmin scholar who abides the tenets of Yagnavalkya smriti scrupulously. He belongs to the Ramanuja school of philosophy (Sri Sampraday). He does not have anything against our philosophy. He is only arguing on the premises that Prabhupada twisted, distorted and gave references of invented scriptures to promote his philosophy. He has made a comparative study of Prabhupada's literatures with the authentic Vedic shastras. He is of the view that, "inwardly, Prabhupada had no respect towards views of other Sampraday even though they may be authentic. It is because of this reason his followers blaspheme Krishna devotees of other Vaishnava Sampradays. Followers follow the footsteps of a Guru."
After talking with him, I am left with confusions. Hence, I have decided to discontinue any scriptural discussions with this brahmin Vaishnava.
However, the person with whom I debated in the following discussion is a different person - a devi-bhakta brahmin :
Scriptural basis for claim regarding authority of 4 Sampraday
Hare Krishna Rahul Prabhuji,
Thanks for all the efforts made. Can you please mention the verse' reference no. of all the above quotes, in the original scriptures ? As it would help the person with whom I would be arguing, to determine the authenticity of interpretation, by cross-checking. The person with whom I am currently arguing is a great sanskrit and Vedic scholar and everytime I quote a verse, he immediately shows the dichotomy between the original verse and the verse interpreted by us. I am at a loss of words.
Your servant
Harshikesh Bhattacharya
Thanks Abhishek Prabhuji for your efforts in explaining me. Can you please quote the exact text of Chhandogya Upanishad in Sanskrit along with the verse reference no. as you have quoted just Sabadvipa Dham Mahatmya not the Chandogya Upanishad. As far as I know, Upanishads have not talked about incarnations and reference of incarnations can only be found in the puranas.
Further, the Padma Purana has been rendered as unauthentic by continuous distortions by various pandits. So, its reference can not be provided outside our Sampraday.
Also, can you please quote the original verse no. of Garuda Purana where the reference can be found ?
Your servant,
Harshikesh Bhattacharya
Dear prabhuji,
As you maybe aware that SB is not only about 1st canto. It has 12 cantos. Also it is very clearly specified in 1.3.26 that the incarnations of the lord are innumerable. If all were to be mentioned, then even 18000 lacs of verses wont be sufficient.
SB 10.8.13 & 11.5.31-32 specifies about mahaprabhu. Also other scriptures like Vishnu sahsranamam and many others specify about mahaprabhu. Also our scriptures say how to identify an avatar. This identification of course cannot be done by us. These can be done only by authentic acaryas and will present to us on how they arrived about the same based on scriptures.
In other subjects when someone simply writes that they have done the research and they can prove it, then people are ready to believe without even seeing what research they have done. Eg:- Earth revolves around the sun or electrons revolve around the nucleus of an atom. How many have seen it practically? Not even 0.01% of those who believe it. But because the scientist have analysed the facts, and say that they have concluded this, so all people including those in spiritual line believe it. Similarly after proper analysis and deliberations our acaryas including prabhupad have concluded that mahaprabhu is krsna himself. And also if you read about mahaprabhu scriptures like Chaitnya caritamrta, etc, you can see that many had witnessed the divine form of maha prabhu. But again one may question the validity of these scriptures and witnesses. If one doesn't want to believe, he'll never believe. You cannot ask to prove the veracity of the proof or witness itself everytime. Only upto certain point we can prove by logic, witness and conclusions. After that we've to believe. This principle even the Law Courts all over the world follow. One has to be really intelligent and have an open mind to accept it.
Krsna says in BG 7.24 and 9.11 that the mudhas (foolish) and abuddhaya (those without buddhi) cannot understand the supreme existence - param bhavam ajanantah
I feel that you were not able to make the other person convince since you yourself were doubtful of this fact. Hence you should first make your faith firm before preaching to people of other sampradayas who are firm in their faith.
I'm sorry if my suggestion hurt you as I didn't meant to do so.
haribol
Dear Ganesh Prabhuji,
Hare Krishna... Thank you for your efforts to convince me.
I read the original sanskrit verse of Srimad Bhagvatam 10.8.13 & 11.5.31-32 but could not find the name of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Others simply won't accept our words when we simply say that Chaitanya mahaprabhu was a hidden incarnation. Moreover, Mahaprabhu himself had not said that He was Krishna. Would you please elaborate further.
Mahaprabhu has displayed his form to many devotees. You can get this information in Caitanya caritamrta.
Why many people cannot accept mahaprabhu as krsna himself? Read the below conversation between king Prataprudra and sarvabhauma bhatacharya :-
CC Madhya 11.101: The King said, "According to evidence given in the revealed scriptures, it is concluded that Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself. Why, then, are learned scholars sometimes indifferent to Him?"
CC Madhya 11.102: The Bhaṭṭācārya replied, "A person who has received but a small fraction of mercy from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu can understand that He is Lord Kṛṣṇa. No one else can.
CC Madhya 11.103: "If the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not bestowed upon a person — regardless of how learned a scholar that person may be and regardless of his seeing or listening — he cannot accept Lord Caitanya as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
CC Madhya 11.104: "[Lord Brahmā said:] 'My Lord, if one is favored by even a slight trace of the mercy of Your lotus feet, he can understand the greatness of Your personality. But those who speculate to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead are unable to know You, even though they continue to study the Vedas for many years.'"
One should not waste time in arguing with a non-believer based on vedas and scriptures. You are not only wasting your time, but also making the other person committing offence at the lotus feet of prabhupad and mahaprabhu. Let them continue their demigod worship or laxmi Narayan worship. Demigod worship by your devi devotee friend eventhough is not comparitive to radha krsna worship, but it is better compared to not worshipping any devtas. laxminarayan worship by your sri sampradaya friend is also technically the ultimate goal even. Per CC Madhya 9.117 - "'According to transcendental realization, there is no difference between the forms of Nārāyaṇa and Kṛṣṇa. Yet in Kṛṣṇa there is a special transcendental attraction due to the conjugal mellow, and consequently He surpasses Nārāyaṇa. This is the conclusion of transcendental mellows". So don't disturb you sri vaisnava devotee
We have lot of market for preaching to people who are ready to accept prabhupadas philosophy in the lines of mahaprabhu. Preach to them.
If you believe in prabhupadas philosophy, then you can thank to krsna and mahaprabhu for not making your mind like them, but guided you in the correct path. Otherwise pray to krsna for showing you the correct path. And drink lots of carnamrta, eat lots of krsna Prasad, and try to engage in maximum service lovingly. If you engage in krsnas service lovingly, surely he will give you the intelligence (bhajatam pritipurvakam, dadhami buddhi yogam...BG 10.10).