Humble pranaamas to all. Hare Krishna
Someone had asked me the following question-
Why did God create us spirit souls or part and parcels in the first place? We didn’t want any of this hassle.
Even though I understand that we are eternal and have been ever existent like sparks of a fire, still considering that Krishna is the first purusha, the original person, hence it implies that we had a beginning. So I composed the below as an answer. Can you please check whether this is in agreement with Swami Prabhupada's teachings? Also is there something that can be added to the below explanation -
Answer: -
Reason God created us- Almost the same reason as the reason we create children. We created children because we wished to and we have the independence/freedom and ability to do that. He created us so that he could share and expand his unlimited happiness. Pleasure multiplies when we share our assets and our happiness with our children. Same applies to God.
We can sustain and provide happiness to only a few children. But the lord has infinite happiness, infinite power and capabilities. So he has created innumerable children to share this happiness. He provides for everyone, right from the ant to the elephant. He has infinite potency. It is another thing that some humans misuse this facility and overuse the resources that God provides for selfish sense gratification and unnecessary bodily comforts and for a false illusion of status, and thus create problems for all living entities by disturbing the balance.
As the famous quote goes – “The world has enough for everyone’s need, but not for everyone’s greed.”
God created us for his pleasure and we are meant to do him service to please him. However, doing service to God gives equal pleasure to the servitor as well, unlike in the material world. That is the greatness and kindness of God.
God reciprocates many times over for those who service him sincerely in pure love and to those who serve him without expectations. However, if we choose not to serve him, then we would have to serve his external energy, Maya, or illusion, which is what we are doing in this material world by serving our wife/husband, children, company, boss, nation, senses etc. And we never get complete satisfaction in spite of being sincere in our service. And also the service is temporary. We serve a family, nation etc in this life and in the next life we would have another family/nation etc and the cycle would continue until we come to the point of serving our supreme master himself. Then we escape this cycle.
Replies
Thank you very much Sudipta prabhu.
your heartfelt eagerness to help someone with philosophical doubt is appreciable but we have to very cautious to not do any tattva bhram ( misinforming the audience about siddhanta or conclusion of scriptures) .
According to Vedic conclusion the souls are not created rather we were eternally existed with Krishna. When Vedas talks about creation it meant the manifestation of jivas or souls within the form of matter.
Krishna is called anadi or adi purusha because he has no equal and no one is greater than him ( asama-urdha) but that doesn't mean jivas were not existing with him. You were right on the fire and spark example . Just like fragrance always exists with flower simultaneously similarly jivas exist with krishna simultaneously.
If we say jivas or souls are created then the statement itself condemns the statement of gita that soul has neither beginning nor any end and it's never cease to exists. Below is the profound verse on this topic from Gita with Prabhupada's purport which very clearly explains this subject matter.
Chapter 15. The Yoga of the Supreme Person
TEXT 7
mamaivamso jiva-loke
jiva-bhutah sanatanah
manah-sasthanindriyani
prakrti-sthani karsati
SYNONYMS
mama--My; eva--certainly; amsah--fragmental particles; jiva-loke--world of conditional life; jiva-bhutah--the conditioned living entity; sanatanah--eternal; manah--mind; sasthani--six; indriyani--senses; prakrti--material nature; sthani--situated; karsati--struggling hard.
TRANSLATION
The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.
PURPORT
In this verse the identity of the living being is clearly given. The living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord--eternally. It is not that he assumes individuality in his conditional life and in his liberated state becomes one with the Supreme Lord. He is eternally fragmented. It is clearly said, sanatanah. According to the Vedic version, the Supreme Lord manifests and expands Himself in innumerable expansions, of which the primary expansions are called visnu-tattva and the secondary expansions are called the living entities. In other words, the visnu-tattva is the personal expansion, and the living entities are separated expansions. By His personal expansion, He is manifested in various forms like Lord Rama, Nrsimhadeva, Visnumurti and all the predominating Deities in the Vaikuntha planets. The separated expansions, the living entities, are eternally servitors. The personal expansions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the individual identities of the Godhead, are always present. Similarly, the separated expansions of living entities have their identities. As fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, the living entities have also fragmental qualities, of which independence is one. Every living entity has an individual soul, his personal individuality and a minute form of independence. By misuse of that independence, one becomes a conditioned soul, and by proper use of independence he is always liberated. In either case, he is qualitatively eternal, as the Supreme Lord is. In his liberated state he is freed from this material condition, and he is under the engagement of transcendental service unto the Lord; in his conditional life he is dominated by the material modes of nature, and he forgets the transcendental loving service of the Lord. As a result, he has to struggle very hard to maintain his existence in the material world.
Hope this will help
Yas,
Hare Krishna Prabhu ji,
PAMHO. AGTSP.
Its been said that Krishna expanded himself in personal expansion and separated expansions (living entities). That means there was a time when Krishna was alone and he expanded himself into this vast creation. Being said that I mean we living entities were present at that time as well but in unmanifested form and then with Krishna's desire everything manifest including spiritual worlds.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Your Servent,
Bhupesh Gupta
Hare Krishna prabhuji,
PAMHO, AGTSP
Thank you very much for the response. Yes, I agree and will correct the answer as you have suggested. It was just that I was trying to answer this question and came across a few articles like the following link-
http://www.jswami.info/jiva/
Here there is a para which says-
That idea, too, Srila Prabhupada rejected. “Eternally conditioned,” he explained, simply means that we’ve been down so long that when we fell is no longer possible to know.
Though this is referring to "Eternally Conditioned" (for fallen souls like us in the material world), this made me wonder whether there was indeed also a time when only Krishna was there even in the spiritual world and then he created the spiritual beings to share his pleasure. Yes we are eternal spirit souls, but is it that as Srila Prabhupada says above, does eternal refer to being so long back that it is like forever. And there was probably a start. Especially since there is no concept of time in the spiritual world.
Maybe it's best not to complicate things and stick to us being eternal rather than debating too much on this. Kindly let me know your view on this.
Thanks again for the response.
Best Regards
Sanjiv
In purusha suktam ( one of the oldest and most important passage of Rig Veda) it is described that 3/4 part is eternal world which always existed and never annihilated when annihilation occurs to the 1/4 part i.e. Material world
रिपादूर्ध्व उदैत्पूरुषः पादोऽस्येहाभवत्पुनः ।
ततो विष्वङ् व्यक्रामत्साशनानशने अभि ॥४॥
Tri-Paad-Uurdhva Udait-Puurussah Paado-Asye[a-I]ha-Abhavat-Punah |
Tato Vissvang Vya[i-A]kraamat-Saashana-Anashane Abhi ||4||
Meaning:
4.1: The Three Feet (3/4 part , vaikuntha) of the Purusha is raised high Above (in Transcendental Realm), and His One Foot (1/4 part, material existence) becomes the Creation again and again.
The same krishna describing in Gita 8th chapter.
BG 8.20: Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is.
BG 8.21: That which the Vedāntists describe as unmanifest and infallible, that which is known as the supreme destination, that place from which, having attained it, one never returns — that is My supreme abode.
So now it is clear that there are two kind of world exists . One is spiritual world and other is material world. And it also became clear that spiritual world never get created and annihilated , it is always eternally existed . Only the spiritual world get created and annihilated. The logic is which is not created it can't be annihilated ( like soul it is not created or annihilated ) . Creation is outcome of mode of passion , in spiritual strata there is no passion only absolute goodness exists so spiritual world always existed along with krishna and eternally liberated jivas.
Now regarding eternally conditioned jivas, we have to first understand that there are two category of jivas . One is eternally liberated means they never took a form of matter in 1/4 part of existence. They always eternally exists with krishna. And eternal conditioned are those who misused their minute independence to live separately from Krishna and came down here in this material world. Eternally conditioned is used because it is impossible to calculate the time span of the jivas those are in material existence. Below are the verses of Gita which very nicely explain this subject matter.
BG 15.16: There are two classes of beings, the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible, and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible.
So the conclusion is creation in Vedic text only refers to the creation of this material world not the spiritual world which is always existed. Second jivas or souls are never created they are eternally existed but they take different material condition of existence due to turn away their face from Krishna.
If someone ask this kind of question like why God sent us here in material world, why Krishna created this material world? The simple answer is it is we who wanted to have separate arrangement from Krishna and wanted to be served by others, that is why we came here. If that would not be the case then why everyone of this world not becoming krishna conscious? Why they are so envious of God. It is only because we want to enjoy our senses due to false identification with this body.
Hope this will help
Yas,
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