While preaching we face lots of questions like all upanishads glorify their God as supreme.
we refer them as upanishads being of goodness, passion and Ignorence. But can't refer where it is actually written .
They say vedas are original without any partiality.
where in Vedas do we find krishna is supreme and others are his subordinates ? Please give some quotes
it will help to convince both myself and others.
Please do not give quote of Bhagwat gita , srimad bhagwatam or any satvik upanishads.
You can give links to posts if it has already been discussed.
I request devotees to be humble and polite while answering any question. Dont try to create an image of pure devotee by hitting hard at others when they raise their doubts which go against vaishnavism. Your immaturity and behaviour shows what kind of a person you are. Your behaviour will have its effect on all devotees. Please be polite. Hari bol.
From Him or His truths & conclusions.
& So I feel, that it is "Submission" is as terrific topic, as fresh as theTeath Just breshed!
All glory 2 all purafyed Brahmen hearSharing their dialog W/us HaRayBohlala
but iskcon doesn't have the above mentioned books i.e. rigveda, those Upanishads and several other books given my mr. "s" and gourab saha. I mean I haven't seen in their book stores. how am I supposed to believe the genuinity of those slokas?
Here are books translated by Srila Prabhupada and his disciples or say ISKCON:
Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, Upanishadas, Vedanta Sutra etc. H...
It also contains some books by previous Gaudiya Acharyas.
However you won't find all of them in stores, you need to contact personally the senior devotees for other books.
Lord Krishna and Rama in the Primary Vedas
The above link contains all the mentions which are taken from Jaiva dharma of Bhaktivinoda thakura and SB commentary of Srila Prabhupada.
Hope it helps. Hare Krsna!
Krishna and Vishnu are the same person, but exists simultaneously in the two forms. Indeed, every form or Avatar exists eternally in the Spiritual World. The Primary Vedas Glorify Vishnu as Supreme Lord. However, The same Vedas mentions Krishna too and as Supreme or as Avatari Purush. The Krishna Upanishada, Narayana Upanishada, Gopala Tapani Upanishada, Chandogya Upanishada and some other Upanishads mentions Lord Krishna.
Excerpt from Ekam sad vipra bahudha vadanti… – The Real Meaning:
Rg Veda 1.164.31
apasyam gopam anipadyamana ma ca para ca pathibhis carantam
sa sadhricih sa visucir vasana avatirvati bhuvanesv antah
“I saw a Gopala (Gopa). He never falls from his position; sometimes he is near, and sometimes far, wandering on various paths. He is a friend, decorated with a variety of clothes. He comes again and again to the material world.”
//The above verse describe Krishna, the foremost of all the Gopas (cowherd men). It also describes Krishna as Avatari Param Purusha.
brahmanyo devki putra
“The son of Devki i.e. Sri Krishna is Supreme Brahman.”
The name "Krishna" is mentioned in Rig Veda 1.116.23 , 8.74.3,4 etc.
Chandogya Upanishada 3.17: Krishnaya Devakiputra: “Sri Krishna, the divine son of Devki”.
Rigveda 1.22.18 Krishna is mentioned as “Vishnorgopa” means Vishnu is Gopala (Sri Krishna).
Very well answered and well explained with accurate points. 100% agree to your answer. If I had been in your place, I would have given the same answer.
Hari Bol!!! Govind Bol!!!! Narayana Bol!!!!
It indeed a very good answer you have given. Vedas declare Lord Narayan as supreme person. No one else. It was he who assumed the form of krishna when all the demigods went to ksheer sagar to pray to him to lessen the burden of bhu-devi when she took the form of cow and cried before lord brahma!
Even lord vishnu declares in srimad bhagavatam that I will myself descend with my full power to lessen the burden of goddess earth!
Even srimad bhagavatam equates lord krishna with lord narayan always...thats why lord krishna is called "swayam bhagawan". Arjuna-Krishna was oftenly regarded as Nara-Narayana in mahabharata composed by veda vyasa ji.
If you read purush sukta, you will find that in the last line it is declared that Hri and laxmi are the wife of the supreme lord!! and....this is the very sacred suktam which demi-gods always recite at ksheer sagar to request the supreme lord to appear before them or to guide them in meditation. It's confirmed in srimad bhagavatam also.
ONE MORE THING......
HARI OM TAT SAT = LORD HARI IS OM (BRAHM) AND THAT IS TRUTH = LORD HARI IS THE SOURCE OF BRAHM AND IS KNOWN AS OM AND THAT ALONE IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!! (Lord Hari in his incarnation as Lord Krishna confirms this in Bhagavat Gita that he is Om)
Its been correctly said in Yajur Veda:
"Savo deve eko Narayana na dwitiyacha kaschit"
"There is only one God Narayana and no second"
Let us not forget Lord Shiva in the Vedas. VISNU/SIVA UNITY.
Eka eva rudra na dvitīyāya tasthur ( Yajurveda 1:8:6 d)
Rudra is truly one for the knowers of Brahman do not admit the existence of a second.
The Taittirya Aranyaka(10:24:1) of Yajur Veda clearly says Lord Rudra is 'Veda Purusha' (purusho vai rudrah)
Yajurveda Sri Rudram (Anuvaka-4) says, "namo virupebhyo vishvarupebhyashcha vo namo", which means, "Salutations to lord Rudra who is formless and salutations to lord Rudra who is of universal forms".
(10:21:1) of yajurveda says:
ishanah sarvavidyanamishvarah sarvabhutanam
brahmadhipatirbrahmano'dhipatirbrahma shivo me astu sadashivom ||
"May the Supreme who is the ruler of all knowledge, ishana, controller of all created beings, the preserver of the Vedas and the one overlord of Hiranyagarbha, be benign to me. That Sadasiva described thus and denoted by Pranava(OM)."
(Yajurveda Taittariya Aranyaka 10:21:1 )
Rigveda says Lord Rudra is the father of all worlds.
bhuvanasya pitaraṃ ghīrbhirābhī rudraṃ divā vardhayā rudramaktau
bṛhantaṃ ṛṣvamajaraṃ suṣumnaṃ ṛdhagh ghuvema kavineṣitāsaḥ (RV 6 :49:10 )
"Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the Universe's Father( bhuvanasya pitaraṃ). Him great and lofty, blissful, undecaying let us call specially as the Sage impels us "
( RV 6.49.10)
Lord Rudra is not only father of the worlds but Rigveda says he is also their ruler.
sthirebhiraṅghaiḥ pururūpa ughro babhruḥ śukrebhiḥ pipiśehiraṇyaiḥ
īśānādasya bhuvanasya bhūrerna vā u yoṣad rudrādasuryam ( Rig veda 2:33:9 )
"With firm limbs, multiform, the strong, the tawny adorns himself with bright gold decorations: The strength of Godhead never departs from Rudra, him who is Sovereign of this world(īśānādasya bhuvanasya), the mighty."
Shri Rudram of Yajurveda says Lord Rudra is 'Jagapathi'
jagatam pataye namo (Salutations to you, Lord of entire creation ) (Yaurveda iv.5.2.f)
bhavó divó bhavá īśe pr̥thivyā́ bhavá ā́ papra urv àntárikṣam
tásyai námo yatamásyāṃ diśī̀táḥ ( Atarvaveda IX-2-27)
"Bhava rules the sky(àntárikṣam), Bhava rules the earth(pr̥thivyā́); Bhava has filled the broad: atmosphere. Reverence be to him in whatever direction from here (he abides)!"
From the above verses it is clear that Lord Shiva is the father of all worlds, directions, sky, earth..etc. He is not only its father but also its sole ruler. He himself manifests as elements. He himself abides in elements.
Agni became such like because of Lord Rudra:
tamabravīdrudro 'sīti | tadyadasya tannāmākarodagnistadrūpamabhavadagniva rudro yadarodīttasmādrudraḥ ( Sathapatha Brahmana VI-1-3-10 )
'Thou art Rudra And because he gave him that name, Agni became such like (or, that form), for Rudra is Agni . ( Sathapatha Brahmana VI-1-3-10 )
Waters became such like because of Lord Rudra:
tamabravītsarvo 'sīti | tadyadasya tannāmākarodāpastadrūpamabhavannāpo vai sarvo
'dbhyo hīdaṃ sarvaṃ jāyate ( Sathapatha Brahmana VI-1-3-11)
" 'Thou art Sarva.' And because he gave him that name, the waters became suchlike, for Sarva is the waters, in as much as from the water everything (sarva) here is produced."
Vayu became such like because of Lord Rudra:
sa.vai.tvam.ity.abravīt.paśu.patir.eva.iti yat.paśu.patir.vāyus.tena ( Kaushitaki Brahmana 6-2-25 )
Prajapati said 'Thou art Pasupati,' ; for Pasupati is Vayu (the Wind).
Plants and trees are also Lord Rudra:
sa.vai.tvam.ity.abravīd.ugra.eva.deva.iti yad.ugro.deva.oṣadhayo.vanaspatayas.tena ( Kaushitaki Brahmana 6-2-37)
'Thou art Ugradeva (the fierce god),' Prajapati answered; for Ugradeva is plants and trees.
Lord Shiva himself manifests as Aditya(Sun) :
sa.vai.tvam.ity.abravīn.mahān.eva.deva.iti yan.mahān.deva.ādityas.tena (Kaushitaki Brahmana 6-3-6)
i.e., Prajapati said,'Thou art Mahadeva (the great god)'; for Mahadeva is Aditya (the Sun).
Lord Shiva himself is Prajapati and Chandrama(Moon):
tannāmākaroccandramāstadrūpamabhavatprajāpatirvai candramāḥ prajāpatirvai
mahāndevaḥ ( Sathapatha brahmana 6-1-3-16)
i.e., "He said to him, 'Thou art MahaDeva(the Great God).' And because of that , the moon became suchlike, for the moon is Prajapati, and Prajapati is the mahadeva."
Lord Rudra himself is Indra:
sa.vai.tvam.ity.abravīd.aśanir.eva.iti yad.aśanir.indras.tena ( Kaushitaki Brahmana 6-3-41)
i.e., Prajapathi said to Rudra 'Thou art Asani' ; for Asani is Indra.
Lord Rudra is sarvadeva swaroopa :
All Gods are various forms and potencies of Lord Shiva only. All gods forms the body of Lord Rudra. Regarding this Sathapatha Brahmana (IX-1-1-1) says :
"athātaḥ śatarudriyaṃ juhoti | atraiṣa sarvo 'gniḥ saṃskṛtaḥ sa eṣo 'tra rudro devatā tasmindevā etadamṛtaṃ rūpamuttamamadadhuḥ sa eṣo 'tra dīpyamāno 'tiṣṭhadannamicamānastasmāddevā abibhayuryadvai no 'yaṃ na hiṃsyāditi "
"Now offer an oblation with the 'Satarudriya'. Here this universal fire has been prepared; and here this Rudra is the deity. In him the gods placed this most excellent immortal form. Here he rose up flaming, desiring food. The gods were afraid of him, 'lest' (they thought) 'he should destroy us'."
SriRudram of Yajurveda says that Lord Rudra is the sparkling heart of all Devas.
devana hridayebhyo namah (Yaurveda iv.5.9.p) i.e., Homage to Rudra who is the sparkling hearts of the gods. (Yaurveda iv.5.9.p)
Yo rudro agnau yo apsu ya oshhadhishhu
Yo rudro vishva bhuvanaaavivesha tasmai rudraya namo astu (YajurVeda 5:5:9-i )
MEANING: The Rudra in the fire, in the waters, in the plants, the Rudra that hath entered all beings, to that Rudra be homage.
Hare Krishna Darian Prabhuji. PAMHO. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Shiva , Rudra are another name of Vishnu. As confirmed in Vishnu Sahsranama
114) rudrah: He who makes all people weep
27) shivah: He who is eternally pure
38) shambhuh: He who brings auspiciousness
600) shivah: Auspiciousness
And also FYI
BG 11.15: Arjuna said: My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I see assembled in Your body all the demigods and various other living entities. I see Brahmā sitting on the lotus flower, as well as Lord Śiva and all the sages and divine serpents.
It is not that Vedas talks about another deity Shiva as supreme Brahman, It talks about one and only Vishnu/Narayana in his different names as supreme Brahman. Vedas can't be contradictory, it is few sects who give interpretation to suit their propoganda.
You don't need to try to establish a wrong intrepretation everytime to establish Shiva over Vishnu. you can post this in Shaivaites forum who will welcome your statement.:)
Your aspiring Servant