Hare Krishna all,
Do I really chant to please Krishna ? Do I really feel blissful
while chanting or I wait for it to finish ASAP? Do I really believe in
the philosophy or pretending ? What is our true nature and why are we
running behind false identity ? Am I fallen if like some other music other
than kirtans or If I watch movie or eat in a restaurant or spend time with
my childhood friend who is non-devotee.
From my experience, I feel that I turned more insensitive, intolerant,
fanatic and fearful of doing anything which is out of ISKCON guidelines.
I feel ISKCON is pleasing to rich, highly educated, depressed and low self
esteemed people with no family responsibilities. Its impractical for a normal person with family to
follow ISKCON life style. Honestly speaking we are subconsciously narrow minded
and fanatic who believe only we are in the correct path and every one else are not.
your
Aakash
Replies
*it's Govrenda*
To personally experience the energies of the root source of all the creations. That's all well & good! However, I wouldn't consider the gross creation of the falce egos to be a conflict of intrests. They srek what you have, a path to peace! Some qulity dowmtime. The Oppertunitys forSharing will come. Perhaps sooner or later but they will come. But 1st. Together we walk, alone with God Himself, that's where we Vishnavahs differ. We have a full-fund of knowledge!-jeyiOm
Hare Krishna Kamlesh prabhu,
This is what I feel is an obstruction to our devotional service. I have many friends
who are inclined towards KC but due to so many rules and regulations they back off.
Seniors say we need to preach them without disclosing all the rules and regulations
then when they become serious you need to reveal one by one. This happend to me
but now I feel trapped. If for some reason I dont do my rounds, or eat outside food or
watch some movie I feel guilty as I am programmed by now to follow the rules. As Rashmi
mataji said what if I leave ISKCON, I am here for so long and have big association. Now if
I leave I will be the point of discussion and example of a bad devotee in the temple for years
to come, Which I dont want to become. At first we should learn to accept our faults and think
with broadmind and leave fanatism to attract others. I want to be a servant of Krishna in ISKCON not a
marketing agent of ISKCON. Thank you.
Ys
Aakash
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
I can understand that you find it difficult to follow all the rules and regulations of ISKCON. At some level, all of us do. Because the deeper one goes, the more strict one is expected to be with one's own sadhana. '
My issue with you is - you are finding faults with ISKCON for your inability to follow the rules. I find faults with myself for not being able to follow the rules as strictly as my seniors expect me to.
Following the rules in your own personal sadhana is not fanaticism according to me. It is trying to be a strict, good student/ citizen of the world. Expecting others to follow is fanaticism. Thats why the inverted tree example in Gita - we are normally lenient with our own faults and judgemental about others, whereas on the spiritual path, its the reverse. We have to be strict with ourselves, and lenient with others. We have to mind our own sadhana, rather than trying to mind others' sadhana (unless they specifically want you to, you are their shiksha guru).
Regarding your wanting to stay in ISKCON or leave, its again a personal choice. YOu should stay out of love, for the positive things you can see in ISKCON (If you can see any), not for fear of being ridiculed for leaving. People will talk any which ways. Public memory is short, you will be talked about for precisely 2 days, 3rd day people will be more concerned about themselves and their issues.
Again I am saying examine your own sadhana, you are saying you are having such big association for so long, then why these doubts and thoughts? You may not be able to follow everything, but you should have faith in the process, thats important. I see lack of faith in the process itself.
Marketing agent of ISKCON - ??? Right now you are a bad agent, both of the material world as well as of the spiritual world. Just because someone is following or trying to follow the path laid down by Srila Prabhupada does not make them a marketing agent of ISKCON. Thats too good a designation. Sincere seekers want only one designation - that they are servants of the servants of their guru.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Prabhu, I believe many paths lead to ultimate realisation of the self in relation to the Supreme. Krishna consciousness might be the best or most direct path but even if so, that doesn't mean that everyone else is "wrong." Every soul is taking their own path in life which will all inevitably lead to connection with the Supreme, whether that connection is personal or impersonal.
It is very good you are examining yourself critically and objectively. If you notice you have become more fanatic and fearful, intolerant or insensitive, that is good simply that you are conscious of that. Consciousness of our shortcomings is the foothill to the tall mountain of overcoming such flaws. But if you say it is because of Krishna consciousness, that is foolishness. The propensity for your fear, intolerance, fanaticism, etc., were inside of you already before you learned of Krishna; these qualities may have only become more noticeable now.
As I see it, Krishna consciousness is a joyous personal philosophy, not some rigid dogma. Krishna is so merciful He lets us establish a personal connection to Him, and each relationship is unique; He has a special thing in mind just for you.
We are all fallen souls who live in this mortal plane, unless we are great souls who already live with God at every moment, for which it is said, they are very rare in this world.
I say: Notice your faults, then gather them together as an offering unto Krishna. If you ask for His help in overcoming such sinful behavior, Krishna will be very glad to help you do so.
The soul surrenders to God when it is ready, not before. But not one ounce of surrender will ever be forgotten by the Lord.
I have also noticed myself become more fanatic and intolerant at first, then I humbled myself a little bit and realized that I am not the judge of other people. I found myself thinking "this person deserves to go to Hell," and other such terrible thoughts. But try to see that God is in everyone, everything. Realize this and it is hard to be intolerant.
This is just my own experience and I believe everyone must come to their own realisations through their own path in life. No one can really take someone else's experience and use it as their own.
I hope something I have said will help you to come to a deeper understanding. Please let me know if you have any more questions. Sorry I couldn't be of more help, friend.
Please forgive me if I have said something wrong or offensive. I am an ignorant soul but I love Krishna and He has showed me great mercy.
Hare Krishna
Thank you Jake Prabhu, for answering without getting offended and understanding my mental situation.
I have become intolerant to all teachings in ISKCON when they are becoming hindrance to my path of enjoyment.
I want to know about Krishna and develop my love towards him, but I dont like chanting all the time, kirtan etc. I like to do sadhana at my own pace with cool mind and not as ritual. Can we achieve Krishna only by discarding our material enjoyment. Killing animals for sense gratification, intoxication and gambling are wrong and wont do it. I get confused when they say dont eat at materialistic persons house, no tea, no coffee, no onion, no garlic and mushrooms. Apart from that people telling you all the time what to do with your life irritates.
Ys
Aakash
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
You have understood the philosophy so so wrong.
Initially, chanting is done to complete the rounds. Have you heard of naam aparadh, naam abhaasa and suddha naam stages of chanting? Everyone begins with naam aparadh (offensive chanting), then proceeds towards naam abhaasa - when we realise that we are committing offences and consciously try to avoid, that time we get a little taste, then we proceed to suddha naam, chanting of the holy names in pure state, for the actual bliss. There is a rider here - when a person first takes to devotion, and starts chanting, absolutely initially, there will be a lot of realisations, progress, then there will be a period (pretty long one) of struggle to get back that initial feeling of exhilaration. This is because for some people, it is past life sukriti which got them to devotion. Therefore, they progress till the stage they were in their past life pretty fast. Then it becomes an uphill task to progress further from there.
Devotion, done correctly, opens the horizons, makes us broad minded beyond what we ever were, and makes us responsible citizens of the world. If these things are not happening (even in small measure), then you have to examine with the help of a superior. Something is grossly wrong.
Have you ever realised what you were before you started chanting and what you are now? Can you see any change in yourself? Do you think it is positive? These are the ways in which one judges whether one has made progress or not.
You have taken on devotion as a set of dos and donts and they weigh on your mind all the time. Devotion is a journey of love, the dos and donts are to help us. If you are not convinced, or still find the need to eat in restaurants and meet non devotee friends, pls do so. I still have school friends, office collaegues and so many people who are non devotees, but that doesnt stop me from maintaining relations with them. See the person for what they are, and how much they have done for you, dont keep just one yardstick - devotion.
Devotion is internal, you dont have to wear it on your sleeve.
Is it really so difficult to follow 4 regulative principles and chant 16 rounds, without it becoming like Atlas holding the globe? Something is wrong in your sadhana prabhu. I will examine if you dont have anyone else, and if you are comfortable with me.
feel ISKCON is pleasing to rich, highly educated, depressed and low self
esteemed people with no family responsibilities. Its impractical for a normal person with family to
follow ISKCON life style. Honestly speaking we are subconsciously narrow minded
and fanatic who believe only we are in the correct path and every one else are no - you are so so mistaken, I feel sorry for you.
If you have not faith in ISKCON also, pls walk out - there is no force.
Once, initial days, someone asked Srila Prabhupada, the 4 regulative principles are very difficult to follow. SP replied - "dont follow". Its your wish if you want to follow or not. If you think they are difficult, then sure enough they are. If you are chanting properly, these doubts will not arise.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD