Forum

What is love ?

Posted by Krishna Dasan on September 21, 2018 at 2:44pm in Krishna

Hare Krishna!

What is love ? Not looking for a formal definition but trying to understand what the emotion is meant for ?

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanam!

You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!

Join ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT

Replies are closed for this discussion.

Replies

  • Volunteer
    Shravn Prabhu September 26, 2018 at 12:38pm

    Who else can explain the meaning of Love better than the source of Love, our beloved, Krishna.

    Excerpts from Srimad Bhagavatam 10th canto, Krishna book:

    SB 10.32.15

    Translation: 
    Śrī Kṛṣṇa had awakened romantic desires within the gopīs, and they honored Him by glancing at Him with playful smiles, gesturing amorously with their eyebrows, and massaging His hands and feet as they held them in their laps. Even while worshiping Him, however, they felt somewhat angry, and thus they addressed Him as follows.
    SB 10.32.16
    Translation: 
    The gopīs said: Some people reciprocate the affection only of those who are affectionate toward them, while others show affection even to those who are indifferent or inimical. And yet others will not show affection toward anyone. Dear Kṛṣṇa, please properly explain this matter to us.
    Purport: 

    By this apparently polite question, the gopīs want to expose Lord Kṛṣṇa’s failure to properly reciprocate their love. They were very disturbed when Śrī Kṛṣṇa left them in the forest, and they want to know why He caused them to suffer in these loving affairs.

    SB 10.32.17

    Translation: 
    The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: So-called friends who show affection for each other only to benefit themselves are actually selfish. They have no true friendship, nor are they following the true principles of religion. Indeed, if they did not expect benefit for themselves, they would not reciprocate.
    Purport: 

    The Lord here reminds the gopīs that in pure loving friendship there is no sense of selfish interest but rather only love for one’s friend.

    SB 10.32.18

    Translation: 
    My dear slender-waisted gopīs, some people are genuinely merciful or, like parents, naturally affectionate. Such persons, who devotedly serve even those who fail to reciprocate with them, are following the true, faultless path of religion, and they are true well-wishers.

    SB 10.32.19

    Translation: 
    Then there are those individuals who are spiritually self-satisfied, materially fulfilled or by nature ungrateful or simply envious of superiors. Such persons will not love even those who love them, what to speak of those who are inimical.
    Purport: 

    Some people, being spiritually self-satisfied, do not reciprocate others’ affection because they want to avoid entanglement in mundane dealings. Other persons do not reciprocate simply out of envy or arrogance. And still others fail to reciprocate because they are materially satisfied and thus uninterested in new material opportunities. Lord Kṛṣṇa patiently explains all these things to the gopīs.

    SB 10.32.20

    Translation: 
    But the reason I do not immediately reciprocate the affection of living beings even when they worship Me, O gopīs, is that I want to intensify their loving devotion. They then become like a poor man who has gained some wealth and then lost it, and who thus becomes so anxious about it that he can think of nothing else.
    Purport: 

    Lord Kṛṣṇa states in Bhagavad-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham: “As people approach Me, I reciprocate with them accordingly.” Yet even if the Lord is approached by someone with devotion, to intensify the devotee’s love the Lord may not immediately reciprocate fully. In fact, the Lord is truly reciprocating. After all, a sincere devotee always prays to the Lord, “Please help me to love You purely.” Therefore the Lord’s so-called neglect is actually the fulfillment of the devotee’s prayer. Lord Kṛṣṇa intensifies our love for Him by apparently separating Himself from us, and the result is that we achieve what we really wanted and prayed for: intense love for the Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa. Thus Lord Kṛṣṇa’s apparent negligence is actually His thoughtful reciprocation and the fulfillment of our deepest and purest desire.

    According to the ācāryas, as Lord Kṛṣṇa began to speak this verse the gopīs looked at one another with squinting eyes, trying to hide the smiles breaking out on their faces. Even as Lord Kṛṣṇa was speaking, the gopīs had begun to realize that He was bringing them to the highest perfection of loving service.

    SB 10.32.21

    Translation: 
    My dear girls, understanding that simply for My sake you had rejected the authority of worldly opinion, of the Vedas and of your relatives, I acted as I did only to increase your attachment to Me. Even when I removed Myself from your sight by suddenly disappearing, I never stopped loving you. Therefore, My beloved gopīs, please do not harbor any bad feelings toward Me, your beloved.
    Purport: 

    Here the Lord indicates that though the gopīs were already perfect in their love for Him, still, to inconceivably increase their perfection and show an example for the world, He acted as He did.

    SB 10.32.22

    Translation: 
    I am not able to repay My debt for your spotless service, even within a lifetime of Brahmā. Your connection with Me is beyond reproach. You have worshiped Me, cutting off all domestic ties, which are difficult to break. Therefore please let your own glorious deeds be your compensation.
    Purport: 

    The translation and word meanings for this verse are taken from Śrīla Prabhupāda’s English rendering of ŚrīCaitanya-caritāmṛta (Ādi 4.180).

    In conclusion, the gopīs became eternally glorious by their behavior in the Lord’s temporary absence, and the mutual love between them and the Lord was wonderfully enhanced. This is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa and His loving devotees.

    Thus end the purports of the humble servants of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda to the Tenth Canto, Thirty-second Chapter, of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, entitled “The Reunion.”

    Hope you feel satisfied. Here is a video where Prabhupad is answering questions on this matter of Love and how to love Krishna. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJT8HJzqQ4

    Please listen with full attention, and not do other activity during the video, as it is very concentrated information and also it is disrespectful not to pay full attention when playing Prabhupada, who is an Acarya! :) Let me know if you feel fully satisfied in understanding about Love from a pure devotee, Srila Prabhupada.

  • This reply was deleted.
    • Gayatri September 24, 2018 at 4:28am

      Adding 2 more important points.

      Some people say love is trust, love is  shraddha.. Now for this one example. 

      One man trusted his wife he loved her so dearly.. so dearly he is ready to die also for her. But one day he found out that that wife started to love someone else.. DOes his love change? Yep. Mortals' love changes with loss of trust.!! Trust is gone love is gone? As someone said previously--->> amount of love is directly proportional to the amount of trust.. So calculative is our mortal love.  Trust hai toh prem hai. trust nahi toh prem bhi nahi.. This is our conditional mortal love equation.

      Krishna's love doesn't change even you become a thief/ rogue tomorrow..... HIS love never changes.  Lord love is not based on any conditions. He wont stop providing nourishment to you now as you became a rogue..( in the form of air, water, sunlight). 

      He just waits for you to realize your mistake and come back to Him.

      That is why it is called unconditional love.

      Sharddha You have shaddha today.. tommorow you become lazy to follow rules and conditions laid by Krishna/guru. Will the love of Krishna Change? Mortal love changes with all conditions.. But Not divine love.

      Krishna love' is pure divine unconditional.. He showers his love ( SUN LIGHT, Rainfall, moonlight, everything that is eternal) is for all.. Those who follow his rules or those who don't follow ... HIS love is not partial to a devotee or rougue. It is same in all conditions and circumstances.  Love is eternal. Love is divine.. LOve is impartial. Love is Unconditional, Love transcends all words, emotions. Love transcends--body, senses, mind, intellect, ego.. Love is only Between jivatma and parmatama ( which is having no genders), no relationships ( guru, shishya, wfe, husband, devotee, God., boy galfriend) all relationships it transcends.

      Mortals find reasons to love someone. Lord's Love is cause-less mercy, reasonless. akaaran Kripa aur prem.

      Who took care of you when you were not chanting when you were not following regulative principles. Who took care of you when you were kid and you didn't know who is God or Krishna was then.? Lord is always loving. 

      We also find reasons to believe in something.. by reading books we came to know Lord is so great. We need reasons to believe in something. But Lord's love is natural and same for all.  Even if you are a in insect body or you were in a human body.

      To understand a mother's love we don't read a manual or book but to understand God we need books and references to know His greatness to have belief in Him. Mortals love needs proof/ reasoning. Whereas God's love is causeless mercy reasonless  love.( akaaran karuna) That is pure love. That is why Lord loved the cobbler who was not well read but had more faith In HiM then the learned brahmin.

      Final thought is mortals cannot love They don't know what is love.  Only Krishna can love as HE is complete in Himself.  We are empty not complete what can we love or give anyone.  Love means to give selflessly .. not to receive. 

      HK.

      • Gayatri > Gayatri September 24, 2018 at 5:59am

        I don't think gopikas' came to Raasleela because they trusted Krishna. They simply loved Him and were ready to surrender to HIM selflessly. 

        Trust, faith and all we see in business dealings..not in love. Love is blind that is why it is called maybe!!!

        • Prakash > Gayatri September 24, 2018 at 8:43am

          Hare Krishna,

           Thank you mataji for the clarification. I need some further clarity on this discussion. So here I am adding few more points, for further clarification if possible.

          Whatever we do Krishna loves us (vs) whatever we do Krishna loves that - These are two different things. Whenever we misuse our freedom, we are getting bound more tightly. And it is for our own benefit. If child misuse father's trust, father gets hurt, but out of his love for the child, he will ensure that child cannot misuse it again. But fathers love to child and child's love to father is not the same. Say one father has 10 children. And among them, there is one who trust his father completely. He acts on his father's instructions, not with an egoistic personal desire to enjoy. For Him, admitting father's word is whole and sole of his life. Then definitely, that child will be most dear to his father among those 10, i.e. can we not say - Amount of love is directly proportional to the amount of trust ?

          Shraddha - it is said - To create shraddha in God, firstly we need to create shraddha in His words. If Kṛṣṇa wants, the devotee can do anything which is ordinarily undesirable; and if Kṛṣṇa does not want, he shall not do that which he would have ordinarily done for his own satisfaction. 

          And regarding the point - "HIS love is not partial to a devotee or rougue".  We could see below slokas confirm God's partiality towards his devotees. 

          BS 5.54 - karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājāṁ :

          God impartially induces the fallen souls to act in the way that is consequent on the deeds of their previous births and to enjoy the fruition of their labours but, out of His great mercy to His devotees, He purges out, by the fire of ordeal, the root of all karma, viz., nescience and evil desires. Karma, though without beginning, is still perishable. The karma of those, who work with the hope of enjoying the fruits of their labors, becomes everlasting and endless and is never destroyed. The function of sannyāsa is also a sort of karma befitting an āśrama and is not pleasant to Kṛṣṇa when it aims at liberation, i.e., desire for emancipation. They also receive fruition of their karma and, even if it be disinterested, their karma ends in ātma-mamatā, i.e., self-pleasure; but those who are pure devotees always serve Kṛṣṇa by gratifying His senses forsaking all attempts of karma and jñāna, and being free from all desires save that of serving Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has fully destroyed the karma, its desires and nescience of those devotees. It is a great wonder that Kṛṣṇa, being impartial, is fully partial to His devotees.

          ##) सुनु मुनि तोहि कहउँ सहरोसा। भजहिं जे मोहि तजि सकल भरोसा॥2॥

          प्रभु बोले : हे मुनि! सुनो, मैं तुम्हें हर्ष के साथ कहता हूँ कि जो समस्त आशा-भरोसा छोड़कर केवल मुझको ही भजते हैं,॥2॥

          ##) करउँ सदा तिन्ह कै रखवारी। जिमि बालक राखइ महतारी॥

          गह सिसु बच्छ अनल अहि धाई। तहँ राखइ जननी अरगाई॥3॥

          : मैं सदा उनकी वैसे ही रखवाली करता हूँ, जैसे माता बालक की रक्षा करती है। छोटा बच्चा जब दौड़कर आग और साँप को पकड़ने जाता है, तो वहाँ माता उसे (अपने हाथों) अलग करके बचा लेती है॥3॥

          ##)प्रौढ़ भएँ तेहि सुत पर माता। प्रीति करइ नहिं पाछिलि बाता॥

          मोरें प्रौढ़ तनय सम ग्यानी। बालक सुत सम दास अमानी॥4॥

          : सयाना हो जाने पर उस पुत्र पर माता प्रेम तो करती है, परन्तु पिछली बात नहीं रहती (अर्थात्‌ मातृ परायण शिशु की तरह फिर उसको बचाने की चिंता नहीं करती, क्योंकि वह माता पर निर्भर न कर अपनी रक्षा आप करने लगता है)। ज्ञानी मेरे प्रौढ़ (सयाने) पुत्र के समान है और (तुम्हारे जैसा) अपने बल का मान न करने वाला सेवक मेरे शिशु पुत्र के समान है॥4॥

          ##) जनहि मोर बल निज बल ताही। दुहु कहँ काम क्रोध रिपु आही॥

          यह बिचारि पंडित मोहि भजहीं। पाएहुँ ग्यान भगति नहिं तजहीं॥5॥

          : मेरे सेवक को केवल मेरा ही बल रहता है और उसे (ज्ञानी को) अपना बल होता है। पर काम-क्रोध रूपी शत्रु तो दोनों के लिए हैं।(भक्त के शत्रुओं को मारने की जिम्मेवारी मुझ पर रहती है, क्योंकि वह मेरे परायण होकर मेरा ही बल मानता है, परन्तु अपने बल को मानने वाले ज्ञानी के शत्रुओं का नाश करने की जिम्मेवारी मुझ पर नहीं है।) ऐसा विचार कर पंडितजन (बुद्धिमान लोग) मुझको ही भजते हैं। वे ज्ञान प्राप्त होने पर भी भक्ति को नहीं छोड़ते॥5॥

          Gopi's showed the highest form of trust in Krishna as they renounced everything else for Him without thinking of any single future consequence.

          - Jai Shri Krishna !! Jai Bhakt Prahlad ki Jai !! 

          • Gayatri > Prakash September 24, 2018 at 8:42pm

            Hare Krishna Prabhu ji,,

            SB 10.47.12 — The gopī said: O honeybee, O friend of a cheater, don’t touch My feet with your whiskers, which are smeared with the kuṅkuma that rubbed onto Kṛṣṇa’s garland when it was crushed by the breasts of a rival lover! Let Kṛṣṇa satisfy the women of Mathurā. One who sends a messenger like you will certainly be ridiculed in the Yadus’ assembly.

            SB 10.47.13 — After making us drink the enchanting nectar of His lips only once, Kṛṣṇa suddenly abandoned us, just as you might quickly abandon some flowers. How is it, then, that Goddess Padmā willingly serves His lotus feet? Alas! The answer must certainly be that her mind has been stolen away by His deceitful words.

            SB 10.47.19 — Faithfully taking His deceitful words as true, we became just like the black deer’s foolish wives, who trust the cruel hunter’s song. Thus we repeatedly felt the sharp pain of lust caused by the touch of His nails. O messenger, please talk about something besides Kṛṣṇa.

            Gopis' thought that Krishna was a cheater, he abondoned them for some new Mathura woman, they thought He was decietful. But still they loved Him.  They compared Him to a bee.. who wanders from one flower to another and is never trustworthy. LOL! but still their love never decreased. hehhhee.

            The gopis' didnt follow any regulative principles and read any bhagwat gita or any big texts to understand Lord or trust in HIS words. They simply loved HIM for nothing in return.

            LOrd is never partial to his devotees.. He is so kind even to this enemies He granted highest benediction ( Putana who tried to Kill HIm also got to reach His abode). He never stopped loving anyone becoz they are not following His order..He only gave them a chance to rectify their mistakes if they couldn't themselves do it.. He personally came down to teach them what is right and also gave them liberation ( He gave mukti to His enemies also). It shows how impartial He is.

            When he laid his Lotus feet on Bali Maharaj's head He was most displeased to do that act.  For the sake of Demigods' and Aditi mata He crushed down Bali's to Patala Loka But He was so compassionate that He personally went down to Bali's maharaja's Patala loka and did serve like a Watchman. That is what is called Impartiality. 

            Mujhe itna hi pata hai.. 

            Agar koi galat baat bol diya maaf karein.

            I am not very well read person. I donno now. pls. forgive me if I say something wrong.

            Jai Sri Krishna.

            SB 10.47.12
            Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī indirectly chastised Kṛṣṇa by chastising the bumblebee, which She took for His messenger. She addressed the bumblebee as madhupa, “…
            • Gayatri > Gayatri September 24, 2018 at 10:27pm

              As far as what you talked about father and 10 sons' that is vatsalya prem. 

              Bhakti also has many types.

               12 different relationships (rasas) a living entity can have with Lord Krishna 5 are prominent (Chaitanya Charitamrta) . They are:

              1. shanta rasa - relationship in neutrality e.g. 4 Kumaras,
              2. dasya-rasa - relationship in servitude e.g Hanuman, servants of Krishna in Dwaraka ( Daaruka the charioteer of Krishna).
              3. sakhya-rasa - relationship in friendship e.g. Arjuna, Sudama, Sridama, etc
              4. vatsalya-rasa -relationship in parenthood e.g. Nanda & Yashoda, Vasudeva & Devaki, Dasharatha & Kaushalya, etc
              5. madhurya-rasa - conjugal relationship e.g. the gopis. queens of Dwaraka, etc.

              Madhurya rasa is further divided into two varieties, namely Svakiya & Parakiya.

              Svakiya rasa is the relationship with Lord Krishna as a formally married husband,

              Parakiya rasa is the relationship with Lord Krishna as a paramour.

              Expert analysts have decided that the transcendental ecstasy of the parakiya mellow is better because it is more enthusiastic - A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

              Chaitanya Charitamrta Adi Lila 4.47- 49

              Therefore I call it madhura-rasa. It has two further divisions, namely wedded and unwedded love.

              There is a great increase of mellow in the unwedded conjugal mood. Such love is found nowhere but in Vraja.

              This mood is unbounded in the damsels of Vraja, but among them it finds its perfection in Sri Radha.

              The “Raasa” of Krishna with the maidens of Vrindavan falls under the category of the Parkiya raasa.

              Which is highest of all Rasas. In this Rasa.. There it is unconditional. Not bound to any rules and regualtions. 
              Servant mood and friend mood and vatsalya rasa mood have trust, faith..
              When u come to Parakiya rasa...Unconditional.. even if the person abandons you even if he doesn't love you back.. .even when the trust is broken. .. Love is not changed.
              ( example is the above SB stanzas which I have mentioned.. The gopis' thought Krishna got another woman( KUBJA) in Mathura and now He abondon them,  He is compared to a bee and what not.. He is called cheater, deceitful person, not trustworthy but still they cannot stop loving Him. Love is not proportional to trust in this exceptional case.
              in this case.
              Where as.. Satyabhama on the other hand was in Swakiya Rasa.. She was not happy if her husband ( Sri Krishna was going with other woman.. She was jealous..  For her love means trust..
              HK.
              • Gayatri > Gayatri September 25, 2018 at 2:02am

                And Vatsalya bhav prem has some limitations.. like as us said.. trust n partiality.

                The father had more trust on one child and he loves him more than rest of ten sons.

                Right? that is why it is incomplete and not highest form of love.

                a mother also sees differences between her two kids...If one kid is handicapped she gives more importance to that kid then the other kid.  This form of love is not highest form of love..

                highest form of love is Gopi love where they dont have any conditions to love.. Even if the person wont love them back.. or if the person breaks their trust and abandons them and goes to other gals also....the gopis's didnt lose their love for Krishna. Though they kept on blaming Krishna about HIS deceitful words  calling him cheater and what not their were having love for him and couldn't stop talking about HIm when Uddhav ji came to them with a sandesha.( letter from sri krishna).

                • Prakash > Gayatri September 25, 2018 at 6:56am

                  Hare Krishna,

                  Still not qualified to understand these deep aspects of love. All goes above my head :-) currently. Thank you mataji for these nice piece of information. But I am sure they will be helpful someday. Thanks a lot.

                  - Jai Shri Krishna !! Jai Bhakt Prahlad ki Jai !!

                  • Gayatri > Prakash September 26, 2018 at 7:38am

                    The regulative principles are called vidhi-bhakti, or the devotional service of the Lord, and they can be practiced by a neophyte with his present senses. Such regulative principles are mainly based on hearing and chanting of the glories of the Lord. And such hearing and chanting of the glories of the Lord can be made possible in the association of devotees only. 

                    (Srimad Bhagavatam----2:9:31----purport).

                    The behavior of the most elevated transcendentalist and that of the most fallen conditioned soul appears to be the same. The elevated transcendentalist can surpass all the regulations of the Vedas, just as the demigods traveling in space surpass all the jungles and rocks on the surface of the globe.( (Srimad Bhagavatam----4:4:19----purport).

                    All bhakti starts with Shradhha..and trust as you said..Faith in the words of Krishna and guru.. and practicing Vaidhi bhakti.. That is following strictly all the regulative principles.

                    I don't say Trust and faith are not essential. They are certainly essential.. without which you cannot have any bhakti.

                    But when it comes to advanced stages like LOVE. These conditions are not applicable.

                    The behavior of the most elevated transcendentalist and that of the most fallen conditioned soul appears to be the same.( SB 4.4.19 purport).

                    These gopis' love was far more than a regular neophyte devotee. It has surpassed all those stages. ( examples of Advanced devotees who have not practiced any rules and regulations given in Vedas are 1. LOrd Shiva ( he is considered to be Param Vaishnava but he lives in a crematorium, He doesn't comb hair or keep his body clean, He applies ashes to the body, He drink bhang, Shiva bhakts called Aghoras even see Shiva in dead bodies and eat the flesh of dead. They say everything is Shiva maay.

                    2. Gopi's of Vrindavan didn't follow rules and regulation of wife( pati vrata dharma, When Krishna told them to leave HIM and go back to their homes as they are married and it is not right to leave husbands at night and come to meet a paraya mard ( someone other than the husband at night ). they didnt listen to His word.. ( If they trust His words then they should have gone back. He gave reference to Vedas also when He said please go back you are doing a paap..( SIN). They cared nothing for the sin also.

                    3. Meera Bai.. She left her husband and family for the sake of Krishna. Didn't follow and rules and regulation of a Patni.. 

                    4. Rishabdev bhagwan.. Was living like a renunciate life. He didn't even comb, take bath, do anything.. he was living life like a trash can. He never cared for himself. He lost touch with surroundings. He was naked all the time. People thought he was mad man. some times he rubbed stool and urine to whole body to keep people away. 

                    They are many examples of advanced devotees who don't follow any rules and regulations given by Vedas. 

                    Vaidhi bhakti is initial stage of bhakti.. But topic of Love is for advanced stage of bhakti. In Vaidhi bhakti you practice.. to reach perfection.. But love is complete different stage.. Raganuga bhakti surpasses all rules n regulations. 

                    Hope you will understand some day.

                    Jai Sri Krishna.

  • Krishna Dasan September 23, 2018 at 9:35am

    Hare Krishna!

    Thank you Prabhujis and Mataji for the beautiful answers.

    Would it be right to summarise the answers as - love unites Jiva with the supreme lord and that "non-separation" is love ?

    Good point Prakash Prabhuji that we give ourself in love which is what the 9th stage of devotion - Aatma nivedanam (complete surrender).

    Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanam!

This reply was deleted.