Hare Krishna!
I heard a spiritual master (in ISKCON) say that since we are not these bodies, we can be secure in our souls in the way a person in a house is sheltered from a storm.
I cannot understand this. If I burn myself, I feel terrible pain. If my loved ones suffer, I suffer too. If the plain is going down, I grip the seat with white knuckles.
In what sense are we transcendental to the body? Can we really reach a state where we are "above" the pleasure, pain, fear, etc.?
If you cut me, do you not cut me?
I will appreciate your insights. Haribol.
Replies
Hare Krishna,
I have got some information (while going through bhagavat gita adhayan mala series) on this question which we were discussing few months back. So I thought of sharing -
Consider the following example :
We go to a restaurant keeping our car parked outside. When we are about to eat, we hear some car glass breaking sound. Immediately we become anxious if something happened to my car. We go out, check and feel relieved finding our car in safe state.
Now in the same example if i donot have any car, i am inside a restaurant and about to eat. Then that same car glass breaking sound may not even get my attention at all. Because in second case my consciousness is not expanded to the car outside.
So it is said - bewildered by ignorance, soul desires to be put into certain condition and thereby chain of action/reaction begins and its consciousness is expanded/split into 3 ( mind, intelligence and ego). Then due to false ego, consciousness is expanded to all the objects/family/state/country/community etc etc which soul falsely claim to be his.
All pain and suffering is because soul identifies objects with me/mine feeling. Soul allows his consciousness to get expanded to the body indentifying falsely, it is him and feels bodily pain even though body is simply matter.
To get rid of these pain we need to take our consciousness to inner and inner and that will gradually come when act in the right consciousness- nothing is owned by me, everything is Krishna's and the right ego- I am Krishna's eternal servant. And lastly Chanting Harinam will be bring all auspicious things to us.
- Jai Gaur-Nitai !! Jai Bhakt Prahlad ki jai !!
OK. I also wish to hear more on these topics. Thank you.
- Jai Shri Krishna ! Jai Bhakt Prahlad ki Jai !!
Hare Krsna prabhuji,
PAMHO.
I completely understand what you are saying - this information that we are not the body, we are the soul does not in any way diminish our bodily discomforts and pains. The reason we feel so much pain or discomfort is because we are having intimate connection with the body we are living in. Then how to apply this concept of we are not the body? The application is - at such times of pain and pleasure, we have to tell ourselves that the one in trouble is the body, we are not the body, we are soul living in the body. We are experiencing the pain the body is undergoing because we are living in this body. Still, we are not the one undergoing the pain, it is afflicting the body. Like everything else about the body, this is also temporary. Therefore, this pain will also pass. So once we have been able to say this to ourselves in times of bodily discomfort or pain, we start to dissociate ourselves with the pain. This way, we are able to be a little detached from the pain and just wait for the phase to subside.
In the case of loved ones, we have to tell ourselves - so many lives, so many relatives. We do not remember any of our relatives or close, loved ones of our past birth. We will not remember these close, loved ones the moment we leave this body. This body is transient, it is there today, tomorrow it will perish. But the soul, which is who I am, will never perish. Similarly, the relative is also soul, has left his body now, but is still around, in a different plane, maybe in a different body. We are grieving because of our attachment to the body, whereas that soul would have moved on, having left its body.
If you want to help the soul that just left its body for its onward journey, you could chant the mahamantra for that loved one (maybe one round more than your committed rounds), or you could read Gita, all 700 shlokas for that loved one, or just 10.8 - 10.11 - 4 shlokas of Gita for that soul, organise a feast to devotees for their blessings, so that the relative's soul benefits from the blessings of vaishnavas. What I am trying to say is, there are so many constructive ways in which we could channelise our grief, and our actions, so that we may understand and realise that we are not body, we are soul.
I hope I have been able to explain. If there are more doubts, pls ask.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare Krishna, Mataji
PAMHO.
Thank you for your very helpful, detailed reply. It exactly addressed the source of my doubt, though I am still having difficulty understanding.
If someone cuts me, I say “I have been cut.” I—the soul. But if I am the soul, I cannot be cut. Or think of being sick. When you are sick, it is very hard not to think of *you* as being sick.
But I think you gave me the key to understanding when you wrote that it is the body undergoing injury or illness, and we are experiencing something external to ourselves. The experience and the experiencer are different. Nonetheless, in experiencing, is the experiencer not affected by the experience? Does burning not somehow affect the perceiver? If I experience one thing, and then something else, I have undergone change, it seems. But I am supposed to be the what is unchanged and unchangeable.
Where can I read about the proper attitude to adopt with respect to family life? I see the logic but I have to admit that the thought of being separated from loved ones fills me with a great sadness.
Haribol,
Your servant
Doran
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Thank you for your response and for asking further. It shows that you are seriously inquisitive about the topic. I am sure Krsna will help you in clearing this doubt.
Yes, when I have been cut, I think, I have been cut. At the same time, I think, if a small cut can give me so much pain, then how much pain it would be to leave this body and also to accept another body, be in mother's womb for some time, and then be born again, simply to undergo one pain after the other. The pain remains the same prabhuji, we are channelising the pain to realise that this material world is full of pain, so we should plan our activities to get out of this painful existence once and for all.
When the body is experiencing anything, whether pain, or sickness or pleasure, it leaves an impression on the mind and consequently consciousness. I dont know if you are aware, we have 2 kinds of bodies at the same time, one gross body comprising of earth, water, fire, air and ether and a subtle body comprising of mind, intelligence and false ego. As long as we are in the material world, we will have these two kinds of bodies. The gross body changes - whether animal, plant, aqautic or human form, subtle body remains the same. Our experiences are carried as impressions by the subtle body. This is what forms the conditioning of the soul.
Like you rightly pointed out, the soul is unchangeable, its consciousness is however changeable. The consciousness of the soul depends on the conditioning or purity thereof.
There are books on grihasta life, by Srila Prabhupada (I think its a compilation of his lectures) and by his disciples. You could read them. Else, you could read Srimad Bhagawatam - there the purports are very detailed and our duty in family life is explained in many places.
Please keep posting on this forum your queries prabhuji. It is benefiting us as much as you.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
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