Why did Shree Krishna suddenly use the word "Him" instead of "Me", if Shree Krishna really intended to indicate himself rather than some other God who is more supreme than he is?
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
This reply was deleted.
Replies
Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya sarvam iti mahatma sudarlabha, " I offer my humble respects to Sri Vasudeva, the Cause of all causes. May He be merciful to me. "
I just would like to verify because of the contrasting translation from Hindi to English of the verse 62 Chapter 18 of the Bhagavad-gita. Here is the contrast.
FROM DEAN PRABHU
-------------------------
Bhagavad Gita - Chapter 18 - Verse 62
tam eva çara√aµ gaccha sarva-bhåvena bhårata
tat prasådåt paråµ çåntiµ sthånaµ pråpsyasi çåçvatam
O Bhårata, take shelter in Him with all your heart and by His mercy you will achieve everlasting peace and the Supreme Abode.
The Contrasting word is GRACE and MERCY. Grace when we are showered with presents, gifts, relief from poverty, rewards, commendations, etc. But mercy is a different thing. Say, when one is in death row. By the President`s mercy not grace, the death convict is pardoned. Another contrast also are words Everlasting and Transcendental. One is Forever the other is inconceivable. So, which is which?
Oh, by the way. The SURRENDER and SHELTER is contrast, too.
Haribol always,
Krsnaraja Melvin
Rudra Vaisnava Sampradaya:
Sridhara Swami's Commentary
Taking full shelter of the Supreme Lord Krishna in every way is what is being emphasised here. Since every jiva or embodied being in all of creation is anyway totally dependent upon the Supreme Lord for their very existence whether they know it or not. It is not at all unreasonable, acknowledging this, for the spiritually intelligent to surrender completely in total unconditional refuge in Him with all their mind, with all their heart and with all their soul. Then only by His Grace they shall attain the supreme, everlasting, eternal abode in the spiritual worlds and eternal communion with Him.
-----------------------------------------------------
Brahma Vaisnava Sampradaya:
Madhvacarya's Commentary
This empirical statement tat prasadat means by His Grace. It should be understood that Lord Krishna is referring to His Grace as that of any of His avatars or incarnations and expansions as authorised in Vedic scriptures. They all as a part of Lord Krishna abide as paramatma the supreme soul within the heart of all jivas or embodied beings. Any part of the whole is imbued with the whole. So Lord Krishna's three aspects of the brahman the spiritual substratum pervading all existence, paramatma and bhagavan which is His original eternal two armed spiritual form which includes all of His avatars in many different forms. So this verse should be understood empirically as well. Clarifying this point further an example is given from Mahabharata that states: Dronam prati Bhima vacanavat which means: Bhima said that Drona was a father to Him. Bhima's actual father was King Pandu but he spoke empirically to illustrate that the affection he received from Drona was like from a father. This is the gist of it.
----------------------------------------------
Sri Vaisnava Sampradaya:
Ramanuja's Commentary
With all thy mind, with all thy heart and with all thy soul swiftly surrender unto the Supreme Lord Krishna taking full refuge in Him alone. It is He who is the Supreme controller, the Lord of all lords, the Supreme goal and ultimate attainment. Who out of His causeless mercy for all jivas or embodied beings and the incomparable love He has for His beloved devotees so much so that He, the Supreme Lord of all even condescended to accept the position of chariot driver for His dear devotee. So everyone should earnestly seek Him as their sole refuge adhering to His unsurpassable teachings manifested in the injunctions and ordinances of the Vedic scriptures and by following His unequivocal instructions in Srimad Bhagavad-Gita. By doing so one will by His Grace be able to transcend maya the illusory energy, surpassing the ocean of samsara the perpetual cycle of birth and death and at last achieve the peace that passes all understanding attaining the Supreme state of communion with the Supreme Lord, that immortal state of eternal empyrean from which there is no return to material existence.
Throughout the Vedic scriptures these points are confirmed. The Chandogya Upanisad III.XIII.VII beginning atha yad atah paro divo states: The resplendent Supreme Lord shines forth effulgently above the universe, beyond the brahman or spiritual substratum pervading all existence, transcending all worlds. The Katha Upanisad I.III.IX beginning vijnanas arathiryastu states: One can cross the ocean of samsara and reach the everlasting, eternal abode of the Supreme Lord, the final resort. In the Taittriya Upanisad III.X.III beginning yasah iti pashusu jyotiriti states: The Supreme Lord's divine splendour is apparent in every aspect of creation whether phenomenal or celestial such as the splendour of the cows, the light of the stars, the bliss of the generative organ for procreation, etc. But when one meditates upon Lord Krishna as the supreme worship able divinity then one obtains Him and the
immortal state of eternal empyrean.
------------------------------------------------------
Kumara Vaisnava Sampradaya:
Kesava Kasmiri's Commentary
If it is practically impossible for one to achieve moksa or liberation from material existence and attain the eternal spiritual worlds of the Supreme Lord. How is it realistic to aspire for it? To answer this query Lord Krishna declares to exclusively seek refuge in the Supreme Lord alone and nothing else. The Supreme Lord is the creator, protector, maintainer and sustainer of all. He compassionately revealed Srimad Bhagavad-Gita for the benefit of all living entities. Lord Krishna is extremely affectionate to His devotees. Out of His great magnamity and affection He even accepted the position as chariot driver for His dear devotee. By adhering to His dictates as given in the Vedic scriptures and devotedly following His instructions one achieves assured success in life and attains unparalleled bliss in communion with Him in the eernal spiritual worlds which are beyond time, death and all material designations.
Source: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-18-58.html
In original Bhagavad Gita Sri Krishna said to Arjuna "Im super soul or paramatma in every living being" ,
therefore its illogical that He refers to some other person.
To support such statements, I present Krishnas words from Srimad Bhagavatam :
.
.
Hare Krsna,
My obeisances to all devotees, guru and gauranga.
Mataji, I will attempt to answer your query but my knowledge is very limited. My understanding could be wrong too so please excuse me if my response confuses you more. I am happy to be corrected or educated on my response.
Mataji, I would say the answer is in Srila Prabhupada's purports itself. In that Prabhupada writes, that Krsna continuing from previous verses where he is talking about Supersoul within a living entity's body asks Arjuna to surrender to the Supersoul first and hence the reference as 'Him'. If you look at the previous verse 18.61, Krsna says
īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
hṛd-deśe ’rjuna tiṣṭhati
bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni
yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
Translation:
The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone’s heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.
Here Lord is talking about the supersoul and how the living being is being directed by the supersoul. It makes sense to talk about Him in this reference as the supreme can be realised in 3 aspects - Brahman, Antaryami (supersoul) and ultimately Bhagavan (the Supreme being). But they are all Krsna himself. how can 'Him' be any different when krsna says
aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
TRANSLATION
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.
So Krsna is asking us to first develop worship through love and let the love manifest first in our heart where the supersoul resides. We are so fallen that we cant approach the supreme lord directly. We have to first realise and understand that He exists in us as supersoul. We start this by chanting His holy names and try to hear the actual maha mantra words. This goes through the ears and purifies our heart and makes us realise and see the supersoul. This is Ceto darpana marjanam. How can we approach krsna without even realising that He is in us and every living being? We are far from surrender because we dont have the knowledge because we are still contesting if Krsna is supreme or someone else. And krsna says for us to realise that Krsna is the cause of all causes, we have to go through many many births to realise this..
bahunam janmanam ante
jnanavan mam prapadyate
vasudevah sarvam iti
sa mahatma su-durlabhah
TRANSLATION
After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.
Mataji, gita has to be read with references to so many things.. We cant pick one verse and start to contest on it.. This is why the forums are so valuable. The responses from devotees keeps us in the right path. Its very easy to make assumptions and contest the verses or the meaning of them by our limited knowledge. Please dont think I am discouraging you from questioning though. Being inquisitive is a part of being a devotee.
Sorry if the response is quite long. I try to write few lines and it just blows out into many paragraphs. My bad. Its my limitation that cannot explain things in a simple way.
Chant and be happy.
Srila prabhupada ki jai..
Hare krsna
He is instructing him as his friend and not the God...
God is playing the role of friend and advising him what is best. He is not commanding/ordering him.
Agents that He fully empowers, such as (MIA) MYA received all the weapons & talents of all other God's just to (be "empowered)"
To distract any & all insincere yogis and those with ill-intentions but have sufficient intelligence to become a disturbance within the society of the creation. Hear again He simply designates VISHNU as our God, as the Head God of this material creation. So although Krishna is the Head of all God's and states things like("what ever is offers to another God is really ment for me alone but is simply offers with out a proper understanding " or "I am the light of the Sun and the moon & everything rests upon me as pearls are strung on a thread " Krishna is with out a seconds doubt the (Highest Personality of God ever.The original HeadGod in person.
Why does Krishna refer to someone else as the object of surrender in the Gita 18.62?
Answer: Krishna’s focus in the Bhagavad Gita is to provide a progressive philosophical education and he gives a conclusion based on various levels at different places in the Gita. So, if we look at the preceding verses, Krishna is providing a particular thought flow over there. Basically Krishna uses the third person when he wants to talk about material nature and controller of the nature. When he wants to differentiate between paramatma and Bhagavan.
So when he wants to talk about the Paramātmā, he often uses the third person, that Soul who is the controller of the material nature, you surrender unto him. When he wants to talk about Bhagavan, he refers to himself directly in the first person. So in 18.58, He has said,
mac-cittah sarva-durgāni
mat-prasādāt tarishyasi
atha cet tvam ahańkārān
na śroshyasi vinańkshyasi ( BG 18.58)
If you become conscious of Me, you will pass over all the obstacles of conditioned life by My grace. If, however, you do not work in such consciousness but act through false ego, not hearing Me, you will be lost.
Now how we will be lost that is now described from 18.59 onwards. 18.59 and 18.60, basically say how we are all under the control of material nature.
yad ahańkāram āśritya
na yotsya iti manyase
mithyaisha vyavasāyas te
prakritis tvām niyokshyati ( BG 18.59)
So here what Krishna is telling is, you can hear me, the ultimate controller. If you don’t hear me, then you will be controlled by material nature, you will have to act according to the way they pull you, prakritis tvām niyokshyati.
Material nature will engage you. Why material nature will engage you, because we are bound by our nature, that is 18.60,
svabhāva-jena kaunteya
nibaddhah svena karmanā
kartum necchasi yan mohāt
karishyasy avaśo ‘pi tat
Krishna is telling Arjuna that now you are telling you will not fight but if you act as a mendicant, if you ask for alms and somebody refuses you, then immediately your sword will come out. Why? Because you are a Kshatriya , you will be bound to act as per your nature.
So Krishna has given the alternative of surrendering unto him in 18.58, now he explores the other options, don’t surrender, you will be controlled by material nature.
Now what is the way to be free from control of material nature?
īśvarah sarva-bhūtānām
hrid-deśe ‘rjuna tishthat ( BG 18.61)
All the living beings are wandering in the machine made of matter, but there is īsvarah who is controlling. So, we are controlled by our bodily machines, because we act according to material nature, but this machine is controlled by all pervasive controller and therefore in 18.62, Krishna says surrender unto that controller.
tam eva śaranam gaccha
sarva-bhāvena bhārata ( BG 18.62)
So, here Krishna has already explored the option of surrendering unto him and for those, who are not ready to do that, he is telling the consequences, you will be bound by material nature. If you don’t want to be bound, then you have to surrender to the controller of material nature. Now, Krishna has earlier told in 9.10, that he is the controller of material nature, mayādhyakshena prakritih. But here he is primarily giving the philosophical analysis.
After this Krishna says in 18.63,
iti te jñānam ākhyātam
guhyād guhyataram mayā
vimriśyaitad aśeshena
yathecchasi tathā kuru
Now deliberate deeply and decide what you want to do. So the acaryas describe at this point, Arjuna gets deeply lost in thought. Krishna has given so many levels of instructions at different levels, so what should I do. And seeing this Krishna’s heart overflows with compassion. Krishna tells, O Arjuna I will tell you the most clearly what is the best for you. I will give you the most confidential knowledge.
sarva-guhyatamam bhūyah
śrinu me paramam vacah (BG 18.64)
And what is that knowledge? That is told in 18.65 and 18.66, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto and
sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekam śaranam vraja.
So he says surrender unto me. So basically Krishna when he wants to talk in a philosophical sense about matter and controller of matter to people who are not devotionally inclined, who are not yet ready to surrender to him, for them he gives them a third person analysis to help them understand that even they have to surrender. For example, the jnanis and yogis, they do not understand who the Absolute truth is. So if we look at other places in the Bhagavad Gita also, Krishna uses the third person reference, primarily when he is talking about the controller of material nature, Paramātmā.
So he uses this for two purposes, to differentiate between himself and Paramātmā, whenever that is needed in the philosophical context and secondly to guide seekers on paths other than Bhakti yoga, who are not yet ready to surrender to him, to convey to them that there is still a controller to whom they have to devote themselves. So the philosophical context of the Gita makes the third person reference clear.
On my website, there is a full class on this topic, Understanding Gita’s Third person references to Krishna and you can find there an analysis of almost all third person references.( the classes are
http://www.thespiritualscientist.com/2013/05/understanding-krishna-...
http://www.thespiritualscientist.com/2013/05/understanding-krishnas... )
But essentially, this is the understanding, based on the philosophical context and based on the contextual purpose that Krishna is serving over there he uses sometimes third person and sometimes first person. Thank you. Hare Krishna
Article Source - http://www.thespiritualscientist.com/2014/09/why-does-krishna-refer...
At many many shlokas in gita, krishna has directly told that he is the supreme lord, and there is nothing or no one equal to or more than Him. he never told that some other god is greater than him. he only told that we shud surrender to Him who is there in our heart as supersoul.
Please read the below article . All your doubts will be resolved regarding the position of Krishna
https://raganugaprembhakti.wordpress.com/srimati-radharanis-krishna...