Dandavats to all who may read this,Japa is so essential to our growth in bhakti. Modern lifestyles present many challenges to establishing a peaceful, disciplined mind able to concentrate and hear the Holy Name.What are some practical realizations you have had in this regard which help you chant without or with less offense?Sincerely,Purusottama DasSalt Lake City, Utah USA
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Anomalously, a truly surrendered soul is a master of himself. A slave to the Lord becomes the master of himself.
"One who is able to withdraw his senses from sense objects, as the tortoise draws his limbs within the shell, is to be understood as truly situated in knowledge." Bg2.58
“The test of a yogī, devotee, or self-realized soul is that he is able to control his senses according to his plan.” Śrīla Prabhupāda
So, we must be honest with ourselves. This knowledge of pure devotional service isnt a cheap thing. We see around us in the present and throughout history that aspiring devotees easily go astray into material sahajiyaism.
After Lord Krsna famously tells Arjuna to simply surrender unto Him and abandon all forms of religion, He says, “This knowledge may not be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.”
So the two tarcks of bhajana, pancaratrika-vidhi and bhagavat-vidhi, go in parallel with one another. Here’s a great article on this subject, which I will be studying!
This is a great question. How do you know Gayatri? I can think of some examples of evidence, but they are not that strong.
We do not truly know how anything actually works or, why everything is in a constant state of motion and change. Physicists do not know what electricity actually is, though they have theories.
The question of How do we know of our relarion to God? rests on the assumption of God’s existence.
As Prabhupada would often say, knowing we are not our bodies but instead soul, is lesson number one.
There are numerous evidences in Scriptures about the First man "Manu" the progenitor of Human Race. And Manu being son of Bramha. Brahma involved in creating all the moving and immovable nature.
2nd canto of SB complete describes about the birth of Brahma. And three Vishnu's description.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead extends His potency as the Mahatattva. Mahatattva includes all material ingredients that are needed for the creation. It is difficult to understand as Mahatattava in one sense is same as the Supreme Lord. There is simultaneous oneness and difference between the Lord and His extensions. Mahatattva is extension of Lord for creation but the eternal form of the Lord existed even before the creation of the Mahat-tattva.
The first form of the Lord is purusha.
Karanodakasayi Vishnu:
It is from His skin holes the innumerable universes have come into existence. They actually remained in His pores and according to time they just sprung up.
The second form of Vishnu is
Garbhodakasayi Vishnu.
This Vishnu lies in the cosmic ocean. From the navel of Garbhodakasayi Vishnu a stem of transcendental lotus flower comes out. On this lotus flower Brahma takes his birth.
Then from Garbhodakasayi Vishnu
Kshirodakasayi Vishnu
expands. He is collective Paramatma of the living entities who comes to the existence after creation. He enters in every atom of the universe. Kshirodakasayi Vishnu is also called as Hari and it is from Him all other incarnations within the universe are expanded.
In short three purusha avatars that manifest in three features are Karanodakasayi Vishnu, Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, who enters each unvierse; and Kshirodakasayi Vishnu, who is Paramatma of both organic and inorganic matter. Mahatattva is aggregation of material ingredients of Karanodakasayi Vishnu to create.
I know that from this... He is Supersoul or Parmatma present in all movable and immovable creatures.
SB 10.87.17—It is by Your mercy alone that the elements, beginning with the mahat-tattva and false ego, created the egg of this universe. Among the manifestations known as anna-maya and so forth, You are the ultimate one, entering within the material coverings along with the living entity and assuming the same forms as those he takes. Distinct from the gross and subtle material manifestations, You are the reality underlying them all.
This is all given in SB that how we are souls and how he all merge into Mahatattva at the time of dissolution or annihilation. How we soul are part and parcel of Sri Krishna. This is all theory.
But In reality we can experience our relationship with God only thru the process of CHANTING.
Jaya. Yes this is part of the systematic knowledge given in the SB and elsewhere which constitutes sambandha-jnana. This knowledge helps us to transcend conditional consciousness and thus revive our original Krsna consciousness. Actually, the knowledge given in Srimad Bhagavatam and the scriptures in general is not only theoretical in the way modern so-called scientific theory is only theory. One year a given scientific theory is considered accurate, the next it is considered flawed and outdated. This type of knowledge, by itself, is dead. Lifeless.
On the other hand, the knowledge given in the scriptures is living. It is eternal. When we actually hear and experience the knowledge given in sastra and from Sri Guru, we ourselves become a new person and our world changes. A new, fresh world is revealed to us. In this way such knowledge is described as vijnana, knowledge which evolves one's concept of God and self.
Further, it has already been stated that actual chanting differs from chanting in practice.
When we are in the practicing stage, our chanting and hearing is full of misconceptions. The coverings of ignorance and anarthas obscure the brilliance of the Holy Name.
"The mere letters of the holy name may be had at any place and from anybody, but the profound and unknown truth that is lurking behind those letters can only be exposed by the grace of a true preceptor who is purely devoted to Krishna." HC
"[I]t should be noted with the utmost care that Krishna's name is not a mere combination of letters or utterance; an appearance is not identity. The fire and the glow worm, though similar in appearance, are not identical. The minutest spark of fire set consciously or unconsciously, seriously or playfully, will instantaneously burn an inflammable thing, whereas a thousand glow worms will not be able to do that, even in a thousand years." HC
So again, how does one's chanting go from glow worm status to actual fire? It can only be had through causeless mercy and initiation into transcendental knowledge, by the Lord's deputed representative, Sri Guru.
Therefore it is true, mere mechanical imprinting of theoretical knowledge (even if it be theistic knowledge from sastra) within the mental system is insufficient for us to fully know and feel and taste our relationship with the Lord. But when we truly hear that knowledge by the grace of our Guardians, then we can say that such hearing is itself hearing of the Holy Name. The Holy Name does not originate on our tongue.
Yes That is very true. If u hear Sb from a self-realized soul you can really get the taste of our relationship with Lord. But ya. You need to do Sadhana.. also to realize this.
without sadhana one cannot understand this relationship which sages long time back have realized and made it known to the world out their causeless mercy upon humanity revealed this relationship to us. But we have not experienced it ourselves.
Sages did a lot of tapasya and sadhana to understand the relationship with Lord.
We can understand if we follow the foot steps of acharyas and our own guru.
We are in the journey towards understand our relationship with lord. saying simply we are soul and part and parcel of supersoul it is not enough.
We also like those sages should practically do Sadhana and realize it within our heats this sacred relationship with Lord. It will take sometime to realize this relationship with Supreme Personality of Godhead. To establish Sambandha bhava u need to do some sadhana.
Practicals are must. Practice makes man perfect. Practicals include Sadhana, Seva of guru and Vaishnavas and devotional service.
No problem Gayatri. I am happy to discuss these topics.
All of my prior post is my own words with the exception of about three paragraphs.
Sambandha-jnana means knowledge of one’s relationship with God. In other words, it means proper acquantance with one’s environment. It means understanding that God is always watching over us, and that we and all follow His path. “All of them, as they surrender unto Me, I reward accordingly. Everyone follows my path in all respects.” Bg4.11
I definitely honor and follow the regulative principles and ALL guidelines given by the acaryas. The point to understand in regard to rules and regulations is that they are secondary, auxiliary supports for the primary or essential feature of yoga—complete surrender unto Krsna.
Sambandha-jnana is ontological knowledge. It is systematic understanding of things as they are, indepedent of egotistical bias or misconception. The whole of Srimad-Bhagavatam is ontological in nature, and its aim is to deliver the transcendental purity of vision of a bhagavat devotee of the Lord.
Ontological knowledge is constructed of tattvas, categorical truths, and their interrelationships. This type of knowledge is inherent within those who are in the higher mode of goodness or even better, those who are purely or absolutely good. Such knowedge pervades and constitutes their very self and existence.
So, how can a sudra or mlecca be considered superior to a generational caste brahmana? If knowledge and intelligence is the stratifying agent of vandasrama-dharma, how could a sudra be superior to a brahmana? If that sudra knows in the core of his heart that all things are within the Lord, and that all sacrifices are meant for His enjoyment, then even though he may not know so many rituals and, by certain sastric injunction may not be qualified to perform prescribed sacrifices, that sudra is a vaisnava—someone who has arrived at the end of all relative knowledge. That sudra lives in a higher plane, a plane even higher than that of Brahman realization. That sudra is surrendered, he has wholesale given himself to the Lord of lords. That surrender can happen in an instant or it can take countless lifetimes. It can be no other way, as the decent of the Lord’s grace and mercy is beholden to no formulaic proscription. That grace and mercy rests in His hands alone.
So we receive the ability to properly chant and hear the Lord’s Holy Name by mercy alone, not justice. Mercy over justice. Beauty over power. Die to live.
Our relationship with Lord Krsna is given in many slokas across many scriptures..
Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-kṛṣṇera'nitya-dāsa': (CC Madhya 20.108) Our actual position and our designation is provided very clearly in this sloka. Lord Caitanya explained to Sanātana Gosvāmī the real constitutional position of the individual. He said directly that each and every individual soul is eternally a servitor of Kṛṣṇa. That is how we are related to Lord Krsna.
The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.
Prabhupad writes: In this verse the identity of the living being is clearly given. The living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord-eternally. It is not that he assumes individuality in his conditional life and in his liberated state becomes one with the Supreme Lord. He is eternally fragmented. It is clearly said, sanatanah.
Now one might ask, all this is ok from the scriptures, but how do we realise that in life other than whats given in the books? To that, it is said, we will not be able to realise our true nature as long as one is freed from material attachment. And to detach from this attachment, one needs gnana (knowledge). Knowledge gives one the capability to see what one is eternally or as he/she really is.
The Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (3.8) also confirms this. Tam eva viditvāti-mṛtyum eti: simply by understanding one's spiritual position, or by seeing oneself as he is, one can be freed from material entanglement. In various ways, the seeing of oneself is described in the Vedic literatures, and it is confirmed in the Bhāgavatam (puruṣasya ātma-darśanam) that one has to see oneself and know what he is. As Kapiladeva explains to His mother, this "seeing" can be done by hearing from the proper authoritative source. Kapiladeva is the greatest authority because He is the Personality of Godhead, and if someone accepts whatever is explained as it is, without interpretation, then he can see himself.
Using this knowledge and having strong and firm faith, we have to build our sadhana and then practical realisation will come one at a time by Guru and Krsna's mercy. Going through such realisations provides one motivation and impetus to increase the sadhana more and more.
well said yashoda mata ji. I appreciate your realization. I feel realization is about how YOU PERSONALLY feel about the chanting.. what YOU understood while YOU chant. Book state many things but, one only can do perfectly only few things which are suitable for him. And the one that suits you which can make u progress spiritually that only becomes your own realization. You adapt that method to attain mind focus.
Sitting in front of the deity focusing ur mind on the lotus feet...and keeping japa mala near the deity lotus feet makes u focus well on chanting that is YOUR realization. Great! thanks for sharing.
Like for someone chanting is better when he is in open air and walking about in a garden...That is his own method or realization about chanting.
as none of us can fully follow what acharyas did and what books state fully ritualistically. Its not impossible but it surely is not possible also.
I heard in some Srila Prabhupada lectures that says adapt the way that suits you makes you able to focus. Whatever it maybe.
Replies
Hare krsna everyone,
Anomalously, a truly surrendered soul is a master of himself. A slave to the Lord becomes the master of himself.
"One who is able to withdraw his senses from sense objects, as the tortoise draws his limbs within the shell, is to be understood as truly situated in knowledge." Bg2.58
“The test of a yogī, devotee, or self-realized soul is that he is able to control his senses according to his plan.” Śrīla Prabhupāda
So, we must be honest with ourselves. This knowledge of pure devotional service isnt a cheap thing. We see around us in the present and throughout history that aspiring devotees easily go astray into material sahajiyaism.
After Lord Krsna famously tells Arjuna to simply surrender unto Him and abandon all forms of religion, He says, “This knowledge may not be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.”
So the two tarcks of bhajana, pancaratrika-vidhi and bhagavat-vidhi, go in parallel with one another. Here’s a great article on this subject, which I will be studying!
http://www.radha.name/news/philosophy/how-pancaratrika-vidhi-and-bh...
We do not truly know how anything actually works or, why everything is in a constant state of motion and change. Physicists do not know what electricity actually is, though they have theories.
The question of How do we know of our relarion to God? rests on the assumption of God’s existence.
As Prabhupada would often say, knowing we are not our bodies but instead soul, is lesson number one.
What are some of your evidences, Prabhu?
There are numerous evidences in Scriptures about the First man "Manu" the progenitor of Human Race. And Manu being son of Bramha. Brahma involved in creating all the moving and immovable nature.
2nd canto of SB complete describes about the birth of Brahma. And three Vishnu's description.
1. Karanodakshaya 2. Garbodakshaya 3. Krishodakshaya.
Birth of Bramha from the Garbodakshaya Vishnu.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead extends His potency as the Mahatattva. Mahatattva includes all material ingredients that are needed for the creation. It is difficult to understand as Mahatattava in one sense is same as the Supreme Lord. There is simultaneous oneness and difference between the Lord and His extensions. Mahatattva is extension of Lord for creation but the eternal form of the Lord existed even before the creation of the Mahat-tattva.
The first form of the Lord is purusha.
Karanodakasayi Vishnu:
It is from His skin holes the innumerable universes have come into existence. They actually remained in His pores and according to time they just sprung up.
The second form of Vishnu is
Garbhodakasayi Vishnu.
This Vishnu lies in the cosmic ocean. From the navel of Garbhodakasayi Vishnu a stem of transcendental lotus flower comes out. On this lotus flower Brahma takes his birth.
Then from Garbhodakasayi Vishnu
Kshirodakasayi Vishnu
expands. He is collective Paramatma of the living entities who comes to the existence after creation. He enters in every atom of the universe. Kshirodakasayi Vishnu is also called as Hari and it is from Him all other incarnations within the universe are expanded.
In short three purusha avatars that manifest in three features are Karanodakasayi Vishnu, Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, who enters each unvierse; and Kshirodakasayi Vishnu, who is Paramatma of both organic and inorganic matter. Mahatattva is aggregation of material ingredients of Karanodakasayi Vishnu to create.
I know that from this... He is Supersoul or Parmatma present in all movable and immovable creatures.
SB 10.87.17 —It is by Your mercy alone that the elements, beginning with the mahat-tattva and false ego, created the egg of this universe. Among the manifestations known as anna-maya and so forth, You are the ultimate one, entering within the material coverings along with the living entity and assuming the same forms as those he takes. Distinct from the gross and subtle material manifestations, You are the reality underlying them all.
This is all given in SB that how we are souls and how he all merge into Mahatattva at the time of dissolution or annihilation. How we soul are part and parcel of Sri Krishna. This is all theory.
But In reality we can experience our relationship with God only thru the process of CHANTING.
What do you have to say?
Jaya. Yes this is part of the systematic knowledge given in the SB and elsewhere which constitutes sambandha-jnana. This knowledge helps us to transcend conditional consciousness and thus revive our original Krsna consciousness. Actually, the knowledge given in Srimad Bhagavatam and the scriptures in general is not only theoretical in the way modern so-called scientific theory is only theory. One year a given scientific theory is considered accurate, the next it is considered flawed and outdated. This type of knowledge, by itself, is dead. Lifeless.
On the other hand, the knowledge given in the scriptures is living. It is eternal. When we actually hear and experience the knowledge given in sastra and from Sri Guru, we ourselves become a new person and our world changes. A new, fresh world is revealed to us. In this way such knowledge is described as vijnana, knowledge which evolves one's concept of God and self.
Further, it has already been stated that actual chanting differs from chanting in practice.
When we are in the practicing stage, our chanting and hearing is full of misconceptions. The coverings of ignorance and anarthas obscure the brilliance of the Holy Name.
"The mere letters of the holy name may be had at any place and from anybody, but the profound and unknown truth that is lurking behind those letters can only be exposed by the grace of a true preceptor who is purely devoted to Krishna." HC
"[I]t should be noted with the utmost care that Krishna's name is not a mere combination of letters or utterance; an appearance is not identity. The fire and the glow worm, though similar in appearance, are not identical. The minutest spark of fire set consciously or unconsciously, seriously or playfully, will instantaneously burn an inflammable thing, whereas a thousand glow worms will not be able to do that, even in a thousand years." HC
So again, how does one's chanting go from glow worm status to actual fire? It can only be had through causeless mercy and initiation into transcendental knowledge, by the Lord's deputed representative, Sri Guru.
Therefore it is true, mere mechanical imprinting of theoretical knowledge (even if it be theistic knowledge from sastra) within the mental system is insufficient for us to fully know and feel and taste our relationship with the Lord. But when we truly hear that knowledge by the grace of our Guardians, then we can say that such hearing is itself hearing of the Holy Name. The Holy Name does not originate on our tongue.
Yes That is very true. If u hear Sb from a self-realized soul you can really get the taste of our relationship with Lord. But ya. You need to do Sadhana.. also to realize this.
without sadhana one cannot understand this relationship which sages long time back have realized and made it known to the world out their causeless mercy upon humanity revealed this relationship to us. But we have not experienced it ourselves.
Sages did a lot of tapasya and sadhana to understand the relationship with Lord.
We can understand if we follow the foot steps of acharyas and our own guru.
We are in the journey towards understand our relationship with lord. saying simply we are soul and part and parcel of supersoul it is not enough.
We also like those sages should practically do Sadhana and realize it within our heats this sacred relationship with Lord. It will take sometime to realize this relationship with Supreme Personality of Godhead. To establish Sambandha bhava u need to do some sadhana.
Practicals are must. Practice makes man perfect. Practicals include Sadhana, Seva of guru and Vaishnavas and devotional service.
Jai Sri Krishna.
Jai guru maharaj ji ki.
Jai Srila Prabhupada ji ki
Happy chanting. Chant and be happy !
Thanks a lot for sparing a lot of time for me.
Dandavat Pranams.
All of my prior post is my own words with the exception of about three paragraphs.
Sambandha-jnana means knowledge of one’s relationship with God. In other words, it means proper acquantance with one’s environment. It means understanding that God is always watching over us, and that we and all follow His path. “All of them, as they surrender unto Me, I reward accordingly. Everyone follows my path in all respects.” Bg4.11
I definitely honor and follow the regulative principles and ALL guidelines given by the acaryas. The point to understand in regard to rules and regulations is that they are secondary, auxiliary supports for the primary or essential feature of yoga—complete surrender unto Krsna.
Sambandha-jnana is ontological knowledge. It is systematic understanding of things as they are, indepedent of egotistical bias or misconception. The whole of Srimad-Bhagavatam is ontological in nature, and its aim is to deliver the transcendental purity of vision of a bhagavat devotee of the Lord.
Ontological knowledge is constructed of tattvas, categorical truths, and their interrelationships. This type of knowledge is inherent within those who are in the higher mode of goodness or even better, those who are purely or absolutely good. Such knowedge pervades and constitutes their very self and existence.
So, how can a sudra or mlecca be considered superior to a generational caste brahmana? If knowledge and intelligence is the stratifying agent of vandasrama-dharma, how could a sudra be superior to a brahmana? If that sudra knows in the core of his heart that all things are within the Lord, and that all sacrifices are meant for His enjoyment, then even though he may not know so many rituals and, by certain sastric injunction may not be qualified to perform prescribed sacrifices, that sudra is a vaisnava—someone who has arrived at the end of all relative knowledge. That sudra lives in a higher plane, a plane even higher than that of Brahman realization. That sudra is surrendered, he has wholesale given himself to the Lord of lords. That surrender can happen in an instant or it can take countless lifetimes. It can be no other way, as the decent of the Lord’s grace and mercy is beholden to no formulaic proscription. That grace and mercy rests in His hands alone.
So we receive the ability to properly chant and hear the Lord’s Holy Name by mercy alone, not justice. Mercy over justice. Beauty over power. Die to live.
How can we know that we are related to God prabhu ji ?
Hare krsna,
Our relationship with Lord Krsna is given in many slokas across many scriptures..
Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-kṛṣṇera'nitya-dāsa': (CC Madhya 20.108) Our actual position and our designation is provided very clearly in this sloka. Lord Caitanya explained to Sanātana Gosvāmī the real constitutional position of the individual. He said directly that each and every individual soul is eternally a servitor of Kṛṣṇa. That is how we are related to Lord Krsna.
mamaivamso jiva-loke
jiva-bhutah sanatanah
manah-sasthanindriyani
prakrti-sthani karsati
well said yashoda mata ji. I appreciate your realization. I feel realization is about how YOU PERSONALLY feel about the chanting.. what YOU understood while YOU chant. Book state many things but, one only can do perfectly only few things which are suitable for him. And the one that suits you which can make u progress spiritually that only becomes your own realization. You adapt that method to attain mind focus.
Sitting in front of the deity focusing ur mind on the lotus feet...and keeping japa mala near the deity lotus feet makes u focus well on chanting that is YOUR realization. Great! thanks for sharing.
Like for someone chanting is better when he is in open air and walking about in a garden...That is his own method or realization about chanting.
as none of us can fully follow what acharyas did and what books state fully ritualistically. Its not impossible but it surely is not possible also.
I heard in some Srila Prabhupada lectures that says adapt the way that suits you makes you able to focus. Whatever it maybe.
I may be wrong pls.excuse.
Hare Krishna.
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