Service of mankind

Hare Krishna

I have a doubt. I want to know between these who is going to become pure devotee of Lord sooner than other as well as who is more dear to Krishna while both of them want to become pure devotee of Lord and to please Him:

One who is regularly chanting 16 rounds, strictly following 4 regulative principle and spending all other time in doing service of mankind (materially) to please Krishna as we all are part and parcel of Him.

OR

One who is regularly chanting 16 rounds, strictly following 4 regulative principle and spending all other time in Reading, Listening and Chanting more rounds regularly.

Please give some reasons or prabhupada quotes.

You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!

Join ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT

Email me when people reply –

Replies

  • hare krsna ,
    ill share this valuable class by gurudev - its v beneficial .please read.----


    SERVICE TO JIVA & COMPASSION TO JIVA


    Most people do not finely differentiate between the two words, “jiva-seva” and “jive-daya”. Usually a person fails properly to understand the distinguishing characteristics of jiva-seva and jive-daya, and therefore ends up with an understanding that is completely opposite to the truth. In this world many people cherish the desire to be celebrated as “a great thinker”, “magnanimous”, “benevolent”, “a well-wisher of the society” and “a well-wisher of the world”; but because such people do not properly understand this subject, the culmination of all their efforts is like the labor of animals.

    The people of the world are so engrossed in their bodily comforts and in fulfilling their selfish desires that if even a scent of an attitude to serve others is perceived in someone, it is greatly appreciated. Service to others (para-seva) is a virtue; however, if it becomes the deceiving of others(para-chalna), it can never be praise worthy. Simply applying the label “service” to acts of deception and propagating them as ‘service’, does not make them service in the true sense. Will the thoughtful and civilized human society of the twentieth century not consider this fact just once?In the terms “para-seva” and “para-upakara”, the word “para” means “topmost”. In other words it means Paramatma-Vishnu. Thus the word “para” refers only to service to Paramatma, the topmost entity. In one sense,the jiva is also para (superior); however, as long as he has anarthas he is bound by the three modes of nature.

    yaya sammohito jiva
    atmanam tri-gunatmakam
    paro ’pi manute ’nartham
    tat-kritam cabhipadyate
    Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.7.5)

    Due to this external energy, the living entity, although transcendental to the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be a material product and thus undergoes the reactions of material miseries. To render service to the jiva who has been conditioned from a time without beginning, whose consciousness is covered by the three modes of maya and who is distracted from his constitutional nature, is to render service to his condition plagued by anarthas. In other words service is rendered to enable him to fulfill his enjoying propensity.

    Many considerations are inseparably tied to the concept of seva.
    **First, one has to consider whether or not the entity to whom service is to be rendered is in fact sevya, an object worthy of worship; in other words, is he prabhu-tattva, the supreme worshipable reality?
    **Second, service entails pleasing the object of service in a manner that is favourable to him. And **third, one must consider the state of consciousness of the servant (sevaka) himself.
    Is the jiva who has been averse to his constitutional nature and who has been covered by the three modes of material nature from a time without beginning, in fact prabhu-tattva? Will increasing the pleasure of one who possesses anarthas bring auspiciousness to him? And what benefit will the sevaka, who is trying to bring pleasure to others, derive from these acts?
    By answering these questions in an impartial manner we can observe that the term jiva-seva is itself not even logical. The jiva is never prabhu-tattva.

    mayadhisa’ ‘maya-vasa’ – isvare-jive bheda
    hena-jive isvara-saha kaha ta’ abheda
    Sri Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 6.162)
    The Lord is the master of all potencies, and the living entity is their servant. That is the difference between Lord and the living entity. However, you declare that the Lord and the living entities are one and the same.The terms sevyabhimana (possessing the ego of being the object of service), sevakabhimana (possessing the ego of being the servant) and sevabhimana (possessing the ego of being one who renders service), are meaningless if they are used in relation to one who is bound by maya and if they are put into practice by offering that person sense enjoyment. To render service to debauchees, thieves, cheaters, donkeys, horses, trees and creepers, etc. is nothing but supplying sense enjoyment to jivas who are bound by maya. None of these entities is sevya, or prabhu-tattva.

    A debauchee and a thief are both bound by maya. It is true that by providing a debauchee with a woman or by giving a thief another’s wealth, one renders service to them by furnishing them with sense enjoyment. However, it is also true that these persons will achieve only perpetual inauspiciousness, and by their association other jivas will surely suffer as well. Rendering service to a jiva bound by maya – that is, providing him with sense enjoyment, however well it may be dressed up – results only in the suffering of other jivas. This is because trying to satisfy the senses of a particular jiva bound by maya results in inauspiciousness for that jiva as well as in suffering for many other jivas.In regard to jivas who are in the stage of bondage, the term jiva-seva (service to living entities) does not apply, yet the term jive-daya (compassion upon other living entities) is credible. And in relation to jivas who are in the liberated stage, vaishnava-seva is possible. But acting for the satisfaction of the jiva in his bound stage, while he still has anarthas, cannot be termed real seva. Only compassion (daya) can be shown to such a person.Moreover, we cannot show daya to a liberated soul (mukta-purusha) – someone to whom we should render service. The term jiva-seva is irrational, but the terms guru-seva, vaishnava-seva are completely reasonable. To render service to or please the senses of guru and the Vaishnavas is essential. To serve those who are liberated from this world and to show compassion towards those who are bound to it are indeed suddha-sanatana-dharma, or the jiva’s unalloyed eternal occupation.
    The jiva bound by maya is not Prabhu (Master). In other words he is not sevya-tattva, the supreme worshipable reality.

    -----------------
    Srimad Bhagavatam does not mention anything about jiva-seva. Its message is to render service unto Sri Hari, guru and Vaishnavas and have compassion upon the conditioned souls. In the example of King Bharata, Sri Bhagavatam shows us that the great rishi Bharata brought obstacles to his own path of self-realisation and to his supreme auspiciousness by serving a jiva in the conditioned state who had the body of a deer. By denouncing such jiva-seva, Sri Bhagavatam informs us of the conceptions of devotees who are madhyama- and uttama-bhagavatas.

    A madhyama-adhikari Vaishnava should render service to one who is an uttama-adhikari, and he should do so for the uttama-adhikari’s happiness and satisfaction. The madhyama-adhikari Vaishnava should care for him in every respect, even rendering menial service to him; but he should not try to satisfy thesenses of the conditioned souls, because by this he will gain no eternal welfare or auspiciousness either for himself or for others. We have to always keep in mind that when the atma’s eternal relationship with Krishna is awakened, the sole object of the atma’s eternal function – which is service (seva) – is Sri Hari, guru and Vaishnavas. In other words, service should be rendered to the independent, pure form of Bhagavan in Vaikuntha (bhagavatasvarupa) and to Bhagavan’s expansions (tad-rupavaibhava), but not to the bound jivas or to the external energy (pradhana).
    Because we have forgotten our svarupa and lack transcendental intelligence, the service we perform with the body and mind is synonymous with enjoyment based on gratifying the mundane senses. The object of such service is not Bhagavan and His expansions; rather, it is the conditioned soul and the material energy. Neither of these is a pure,conscious entity of Vaikuntha. Presently the consciousness of the conditioned soul is averse to Krishna. To redirect that consciousness toward Krishna is to show the jiva the highest form of compassion.
    Jiva-seva is never possible. In other words, the function of the jiva’s transcendental senses can never be used to provide sense pleasure to the conscious entities who are covered by non-reality or ignorance.
  • hare krsna ,
    ill share this valuable class by gurudev - its v beneficial .please read.----


    SERVICE TO JIVA & COMPASSION TO JIVA


    Most people do not finely differentiate between the two words, “jiva-seva” and “jive-daya”. Usually a person fails properly to understand the distinguishing characteristics of jiva-seva and jive-daya, and therefore ends up with an understanding that is completely opposite to the truth. In this world many people cherish the desire to be celebrated as “a great thinker”, “magnanimous”, “benevolent”, “a well-wisher of the society” and “a well-wisher of the world”; but because such people do not properly understand this subject, the culmination of all their efforts is like the labor of animals.

    The people of the world are so engrossed in their bodily comforts and in fulfilling their selfish desires that if even a scent of an attitude to serve others is perceived in someone, it is greatly appreciated. Service to others (para-seva) is a virtue; however, if it becomes the deceiving of others(para-chalna), it can never be praise worthy. Simply applying the label “service” to acts of deception and propagating them as ‘service’, does not make them service in the true sense. Will the thoughtful and civilized human society of the twentieth century not consider this fact just once?In the terms “para-seva” and “para-upakara”, the word “para” means “topmost”. In other words it means Paramatma-Vishnu. Thus the word “para” refers only to service to Paramatma, the topmost entity. In one sense,the jiva is also para (superior); however, as long as he has anarthas he is bound by the three modes of nature.

    yaya sammohito jiva
    atmanam tri-gunatmakam
    paro ’pi manute ’nartham
    tat-kritam cabhipadyate
    Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.7.5)

    Due to this external energy, the living entity, although transcendental to the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be a material product and thus undergoes the reactions of material miseries. To render service to the jiva who has been conditioned from a time without beginning, whose consciousness is covered by the three modes of maya and who is distracted from his constitutional nature, is to render service to his condition plagued by anarthas. In other words service is rendered to enable him to fulfill his enjoying propensity.

    Many considerations are inseparably tied to the concept of seva.
    **First, one has to consider whether or not the entity to whom service is to be rendered is in fact sevya, an object worthy of worship; in other words, is he prabhu-tattva, the supreme worshipable reality?
    **Second, service entails pleasing the object of service in a manner that is favourable to him. And **third, one must consider the state of consciousness of the servant (sevaka) himself.
    Is the jiva who has been averse to his constitutional nature and who has been covered by the three modes of material nature from a time without beginning, in fact prabhu-tattva? Will increasing the pleasure of one who possesses anarthas bring auspiciousness to him? And what benefit will the sevaka, who is trying to bring pleasure to others, derive from these acts?
    By answering these questions in an impartial manner we can observe that the term jiva-seva is itself not even logical. The jiva is never prabhu-tattva.

    mayadhisa’ ‘maya-vasa’ – isvare-jive bheda
    hena-jive isvara-saha kaha ta’ abheda
    Sri Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 6.162)
    The Lord is the master of all potencies, and the living entity is their servant. That is the difference between Lord and the living entity. However, you declare that the Lord and the living entities are one and the same.The terms sevyabhimana (possessing the ego of being the object of service), sevakabhimana (possessing the ego of being the servant) and sevabhimana (possessing the ego of being one who renders service), are meaningless if they are used in relation to one who is bound by maya and if they are put into practice by offering that person sense enjoyment. To render service to debauchees, thieves, cheaters, donkeys, horses, trees and creepers, etc. is nothing but supplying sense enjoyment to jivas who are bound by maya. None of these entities is sevya, or prabhu-tattva.

    A debauchee and a thief are both bound by maya. It is true that by providing a debauchee with a woman or by giving a thief another’s wealth, one renders service to them by furnishing them with sense enjoyment. However, it is also true that these persons will achieve only perpetual inauspiciousness, and by their association other jivas will surely suffer as well. Rendering service to a jiva bound by maya – that is, providing him with sense enjoyment, however well it may be dressed up – results only in the suffering of other jivas. This is because trying to satisfy the senses of a particular jiva bound by maya results in inauspiciousness for that jiva as well as in suffering for many other jivas.In regard to jivas who are in the stage of bondage, the term jiva-seva (service to living entities) does not apply, yet the term jive-daya (compassion upon other living entities) is credible. And in relation to jivas who are in the liberated stage, vaishnava-seva is possible. But acting for the satisfaction of the jiva in his bound stage, while he still has anarthas, cannot be termed real seva. Only compassion (daya) can be shown to such a person.Moreover, we cannot show daya to a liberated soul (mukta-purusha) – someone to whom we should render service. The term jiva-seva is irrational, but the terms guru-seva, vaishnava-seva are completely reasonable. To render service to or please the senses of guru and the Vaishnavas is essential. To serve those who are liberated from this world and to show compassion towards those who are bound to it are indeed suddha-sanatana-dharma, or the jiva’s unalloyed eternal occupation.
    The jiva bound by maya is not Prabhu (Master). In other words he is not sevya-tattva, the supreme worshipable reality.

    -----------------
    Srimad Bhagavatam does not mention anything about jiva-seva. Its message is to render service unto Sri Hari, guru and Vaishnavas and have compassion upon the conditioned souls. In the example of King Bharata, Sri Bhagavatam shows us that the great rishi Bharata brought obstacles to his own path of self-realisation and to his supreme auspiciousness by serving a jiva in the conditioned state who had the body of a deer. By denouncing such jiva-seva, Sri Bhagavatam informs us of the conceptions of devotees who are madhyama- and uttama-bhagavatas.

    A madhyama-adhikari Vaishnava should render service to one who is an uttama-adhikari, and he should do so for the uttama-adhikari’s happiness and satisfaction. The madhyama-adhikari Vaishnava should care for him in every respect, even rendering menial service to him; but he should not try to satisfy thesenses of the conditioned souls, because by this he will gain no eternal welfare or auspiciousness either for himself or for others. We have to always keep in mind that when the atma’s eternal relationship with Krishna is awakened, the sole object of the atma’s eternal function – which is service (seva) – is Sri Hari, guru and Vaishnavas. In other words, service should be rendered to the independent, pure form of Bhagavan in Vaikuntha (bhagavatasvarupa) and to Bhagavan’s expansions (tad-rupavaibhava), but not to the bound jivas or to the external energy (pradhana).
    Because we have forgotten our svarupa and lack transcendental intelligence, the service we perform with the body and mind is synonymous with enjoyment based on gratifying the mundane senses. The object of such service is not Bhagavan and His expansions; rather, it is the conditioned soul and the material energy. Neither of these is a pure,conscious entity of Vaikuntha. Presently the consciousness of the conditioned soul is averse to Krishna. To redirect that consciousness toward Krishna is to show the jiva the highest form of compassion.
    Jiva-seva is never possible. In other words, the function of the jiva’s transcendental senses can never be used to provide sense pleasure to the conscious entities who are covered by non-reality or ignorance.
  • 9 fold devotional service are interdependent, we cannot separate them all the times.for example - hearing and kirtan are interdependent

    one cannot hear until there is some speaker, speaker cannot speak if there is no listener. so they are mutually dependent limbs. similarly, from hearing & kirtan leads to the remembrance. one cannot remember if he is not hearing or glorifying.

    Point is that we cannot separate them all the times, however we can be good one of aspect of bhakti at a time.

    Following are the top examples of each limbs of bhakti

    1. HEARING (sravanam)
    Maharaja Pariksit (the last seven days of his life, he constantly heard the Srimad Bhagavatam).

    2. CHANTING (kirtanam)
    Sukadeva Goswami (spoke the Bhagavatam to Maharaja Pariksit)

    3. REMEMBERING( visnu smaranam)
    Prahlada Maharaja (never forgot Krsna despite constant tortures from his father- Hiranyakashipu)

    4. SERVING THE LORD'S LOTUS FEET (pada sevanam)
    Laxmi, the Goddess of Fortune, is always engaged in serving the lotus feet of the Lord.

    5. DEITY-WORSHIP (arcanam)
    Maharaja Prthu used all of his royal possessions in order to offer them in pure devotion to the Lord.

    6.PRAYING (vandanam)
    Akura offered prayers to Krsna when he was traveling to Vrndavana in order to see Krsna.

    7. EXECUTING ORDERS (dasyam)
    Hanuman, the intimate servant of Ramacandra executed all of Sri Ramacandra's orders despite all kinds of difficulties.

    8. SERVING AS A FRIEND (sakhyam)
    Arjuna was so close to Krsna, that the Lord offered Himself to become his chariot driver and serve Arjuna and his brothers in various ways.

    9. COMPLETE SURRENDER (atma nivedanam)
    Bali Maharaja gave Sri Vamanadeva his entire kingdom, his possessions as well as his own body, although his own spiritual master was against it.

  • Materialistic welfare work is the activity of those iiving entities that have fallen from the Brahmajyoti 

    Because being merged in the Brahmajyoti is Boring..

    There is eternity and knowledge but for want of Bliss they   again return to the samsara

    and open hospitals and mundane social work.

    One who is beyond duality and doubt, whose mind is engaged within, who is always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings, and who is free from all sins, achieves liberation in the Supreme.” (Bhagavad Gita 5.25)

    “In Kali-yuga there is a scarcity of food almost every year, and thus philanthropists spend lavishly to feed the poor. For this they invent the term daridra-narayana-seva. This is prohibited. One should distribute sumptuous prasada, considering everyone a part of the Supreme Lord, but one should not juggle words to make a poor man Narayana. Everyone is related to the Supreme Lord, but one should not mistakenly think that because one is related to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has become the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana. Such a Mayavada philosophy is extremely dangerous, especially for a devotee. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore strictly forbidden us to associate with Mayavadi philosophers.Mayavadi-bhasya sunile haya sarva-nasa: if one associates with the Mayavada philosophy, his devotional life is doomed.” (Srila Prabhupada from Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.15.6)

    kaler dosa-nidhe rajann asti hy eko mahan gunah
    kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sangah param vrajet

    “This age of Kali is an ocean of faults, but there is one great benefit. Simply by Krishna kirtan, chanting the Hare Krishna mantra, one can become purified of all material contamination and return back home, back to Godhead.”

    So the greatest welfare work is to spread this Krishna kirtan all over the world on the other hand a person engaged only in trying to improve the physical welfare of human society cannot factually help anyone. Temporary relief of the external body and the mind does not solve one’s actual problems. The real cause of one’s difficulties in the hard struggle for life is one’s forgetfulness of his relationship with the Supreme Lord. So the true welfare work which is beneficial for all the living entities of this universe is to popularize the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra all over the world.

  • Do both. Chanting etc will benifit your spiritual upliftment and helping others will uplift them from misery. But do not only materially help them. We need to see the condition of the person whom you are going to help. You can not teach spiritual upliftment to beggar who is suffering without clothes, food and living on footpath in worst condition. There is differnet medicine for different stages of patient. The person who is dying without food and if I will go to preach them what his response will be , we all know. We all are in good condition atleast by basic necessities with the mercy of lord krishna that's why we are here for further upliftment i.e spiritual. First we need to satisfy basic necessity then only we should preach them for spiritual upliftment  to make them understand the laws of karma and their present situation. We can not preach to a fainted person. we need to make him alive first and then we can teach him.  

    By helping poor and needy people, you are actually worshiping krishna also who  lives in their heart. You will find this quality like offering food, clothes in the life of all great devotees but keeping in mind that we all should help each other for spiritual upliftment also. First serving by basic necessities and if we make them able to earn their livelihood by themselves by skill development progrmas or by making them literate or helping them to get a job somewhere  it is also the best service and then comes spiritual upliftment. Without it none will listen or take interest in spiritual upliftment. it is like teaching to a dead person or asking to write thesis to a illiterate people.

    Hare krishna

  • A big no to first option? Helping people materially ? Opening hospitals and schools Srila Prabhupada was against all this nonsense. How to help people well by giving them Bhagvadam Gita as it is -by distributing book by doing Hari Naam Sankirtians on the road and distributing parsadam (After the kirtan only) . This way is the best of serving Lord Krishna and Prabhupada !!!

  • what is material service ? sense gratification?

    gratifying others materially how does that benefit anyone?

    So you can get money for your sense gratification?

    if you get money to offer to Krishna and his devotees, perhaps there is some benefit if gotten by honest means

    Sankirtana is by far the highest welfare work

    it is explained in Srimad Bhagavatam

    SB 4.30.34 P
    A pure devotee considers a moment's association with another pure devotee to be far superior to residing in a heavenly planet or merging in the Brahman effulgence. The topmost benediction for those who are living in this material world and are subjected to the repetition of birth and death (transmigration) is association with pure devotees. One should search out such pure devotees and remain with them. That will make one completely happy, even though living within the material world. This Krsna consciousness movement is started for that purpose.

  • sri guru gauranga jayatah

    The 2nd one is better. Because first of all v must know what is our true welfare. We should not understand true welfare by our intelligence and experience , then everyone will present their own opinion - a drunkard may say if anyone will give me bottle of wine he is my welwisher and so on. People in general dont know their true welfare because they think they are their body & welfare means benefits for the temporary body.like hospitals,schools ,charity,help etc.. But even if u feed someone they will get hungry again .their hunger will always be there as long as they live, u cant daily feed them. Nor can u cure people such that he will never get diseased again. Prabhupada says we must save the drowning person rather than his shirt. V are souls and body is like shirt. True service to mankind means to share the message of krsna consiousness to others , only then he will be forever freed from misery. Saraswati thakur says that ' if u can free just one suffering conditioned soul from the fort of maya then it is the greatest welfare work one can do'.otherwise whatever we do welfare services will fall off when death comes .death will render everything useless - whatever we have done for the body and mind we become unimportant that time.because this body is an instrument to free the condioned self from maya and elevate the self to a happy life in the spiritual world. This is possible only in human life , leaving this all others are non welfare activities from absolute viewpoint.

    Having understood that preaching kc is best welfare .now who can preach - example ((someone who has eaten sufficiently uptill his neck will leave burp from his mouth. It comes naturally.)) same way if we have practised sufficiently in ourlife so much so that every word ,every action and every aspect of our life is only krsna bhakti , then naturally v will preach.it will come from u spontaneously.
    So we must first of all safe ourself from danger.we must be helped by the agents of the lord. We must ourself have a strong standing in that transcendental soil. Having fixed ouselves firmly on that plane then v must lend a helping hand to others while ourself tightly holding unto the hand of our helper (lord's agent). Otherwise we will fall along with those we try to help ( like if u try to pull up a drowning man ,he will drag u down ) - v will cheat ourself and others of our true fortune then.

    But we can share what we know with those who ask our help. Also if guru asks us to preach , we can - he will empower us.

    Untill our service is ordered or needed by the authorites, we must concentrate on our own sadhana ( remember 16 round is only a minimum, a concession. Prabhupada saw that people are weak in devotion so he made compromise with min 16 rounds. He dint say that after 16 round close ur bead bags and go on with watever u want. He knew that in the beginning they feel difficulty but gradually they will develop taste in chanting more and more. Infact the test of chanting properly Is that one will think y just 16, why not 64 why not 100.)

    Prabhupad says death is the final exam. Whatever bhakti or semblence of bhakti v r doing will b test that time.
    So lets ask ouself if suddenly death comes, will i be able to think of krsna? - we will think about so many other things , so many unfulfilled desires are there how can i die now, how will i leave my friends, wife , my house , car bike , my money , my responsiblities etc. My my my we r absorbed like this in false ego "I (the body)" & "mine(related to body)".

    We should not think simply because v r chanting 16 & following 4 reg prin is enough - we are liberated. No we must check r we doing this properly by looking at the effects. One who is actually chanting will have his heart constantly flowing toward krsna seva. He will never want to take a break thinking ive done enough ,now i must do something else.
    1 point - we must have this faith "krsna bhakti kaile sarva karma krta haya" by serving & pleasing krsna everything is accomplished. By watering the roots , all part of the tree are watered same way by serving krsna fully we atomatically serve mankind. There is nothing more to accomplish beyond this. This kind of faith is paramarthika sraddha . This is the beginning of bhakti lata growing.

    hare krsna
    preach.it
    This domain may be for sale!
  • Without association of pure devotee, one usually do not become pure devotee.

    Purification, Swarga destination, liberation, siddhis,... are easily given by the Lord to humble Vaishnava who follow sadhana strictly, but the transcendental pure bhakti is rarely given.

    One can get opportunity to get ill from transcendental disease,  only in the association of those who are already infected. There is no other way.

This reply was deleted.