Hare Krsna!
PAMHO!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I wanted to share an experience that I had recently with a friend of mine, based on which I wanted to ask a few questions as to how to deal with such people.
Recently when I was in a reception function of a friend, there was one person who, probably from his views, appeared to be a person belonging to the societies that accept Vedas & oppose Puranas & Diety Worship (most likely he follows Arya Samaj). He asked me whether I follow a Vaishnav institute (Probably because he saw my Tilak & Kanthi) to which I replied that am exploring the teachings of ISKCON. I knew he didn't like diety worship(He was in my college, so I knew this). Hence I tried to stay away from any scriptural discussion with him.
But later on, he started saying things against the beliefs of Vaishnavas, things we usually hear from any one who doesn't understand the science of Diety Worship. I got a bit upset (since his statements were against the scriptures, especially Srimad Bhagavatam). And ironically, he was using one shastra only to prove why another shastra is inauthentic (both belonging to Sanatan Dharma). I knew how such things affected me last time (you can see some of my previous questions), hence I thought this experience might be a test of Maya to check my firmness in Bhakti. I just requested him to be a bit respectful to the acharyas even if you don't accept their philosophy, at least if the acharya is elderly & left that group to a different place in the party.
With this account, I wanted to ask one thing, which is that, how should we reply when people from our friend circle / family raise such questions. He gave the following arguments:
1. He said that Puranas mentioned in Vedas, like in Atharva Veda, Chandogya Upanishad etc. are not the ones that are available (like Srimad Bhagavatam, Vishnu Puran etc.) but actually they refer to Brahmanas, like the Vedas have a section of Brahmanas (like Shatapatha Brahmana, Gopatha Brahmana etc.)
2. He would reject the statements of Mahabharat which contain phrases like "Ashtadash Puranam" calling them interpolations etc.
I felt pity for him for believing such things and prayed to Lord Sri Krishna. But, I thought that many of devotees face such seemingly shastric oppositions. So I thought it would be better to seek guidance from devotees themselves how they deal with such things. I would be highly obliged if any of the devotees could share what should be done for arguments like the ones given above.
Haribol!
Replies
Hare Krishna!
When faced with arguments or doubts about the authenticity of Vedic scriptures, it is important to respond with humility, respect, and accurate knowledge. Here are some points to consider:
Regarding the mention of Puranas in the Vedas: It is true that the Vedas contain sections called Brahmanas, which provide explanations and rituals. However, the Puranas are separate texts that serve as supplements to the Vedas. They contain historical accounts, genealogies, cosmology, and teachings about devotion to the Supreme Lord. The Srimad Bhagavatam and Vishnu Purana are examples of Puranas. These texts have been accepted by great acharyas and saints throughout history as authentic and authoritative sources of spiritual knowledge.
Rejecting statements in the Mahabharata: The phrase "Ashtadash Puranam" mentioned in the Mahabharata refers to the eighteen major Puranas. Some individuals may argue that these references are interpolations. However, it is important to note that the Mahabharata itself is a highly respected scripture and a valuable source of spiritual wisdom. Great sages and acharyas have accepted the Mahabharata as an authentic historical and philosophical text. It is not appropriate to dismiss its statements without proper evidence or understanding.
When dealing with such arguments, it is helpful to provide references from Vedic scriptures and the teachings of great acharyas. For example, you can refer to the statements of Srila Prabhupada, IF YOU CAN or TAKE THIS AS AN OPPOTUNITY TO ENHANCE YOUR KNOWLADGE AND UNDERSTANDING.
Remember to approach these discussions with love, patience, and a genuine desire to help others understand the profound wisdom of the Vedic scriptures. Ultimately, it is the mercy of Lord Sri Krishna that can open the hearts and minds of individuals who are sincerely seeking the truth.
Vedanta-sutra (Bhagavatam) is the natural Commentry.
Sharcharya (mayavadi leader) made a commentry called sarikaya-bhasa
Either YOU or ME accept either or not. Choose wisly take the blue or the red pill!
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
It is not necessary to win every argument. In fact, it is not necessary to get into argument with such people whose purpose is to show that they are superior. Simply side step, fold your hands and say thank you.
Do not bite their bait. Only if you see that they are genuinely interested in knowing our philosophy, then open your mouth and tell them anything.
You can simply say - let us matintain respectful distance towards each other's faith. If you are convinced about your path, by all means please follow it. As far as I am concerned, I am convinced about Gaudiya Vaishnav philosphy and happy to follow it. I may not be able to explain the intricasies of the philosophy to you. I may lack knowledge, but that does not mean I lack faith. If you are interested in knowing the philosophy, I can take you to our temple, make you speak with some authority or atleast brahmacari who is good in philosophy, to help you understand. It is not nice that Sanatan Dharma followers are trying to belittle each other's faith. This is the time for us to stand together and support each other.
Maintain all the while that Srimad Bhagawatam is Amala Purana and Bhagavad Gita is our sacred text. How can the song of God, spoken by God Himself, be lesser scripture. That same way, how can a scripture that talks about God be small?
Whatever you do, do not allow anyone to shake your faith. You be convinced and remain convinced.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare Krishna Prabhuji,
It is clearly stated in Srimad Bhagavatam that It is the ultimate scripture. If someone reads Srimad Bhagavatam, then there is no need to read any other Vedic Literature(I read Bhagavat Gita too.) And Srimad Bhagavatam is written by Vyasdeva, an incarnation of Lord Sri Krishna.
I personally don't get into arguments with such people, if they say water is dry then water is dry. But I do tend to avoid them henceforth.
Dandavat Pranam
Warm Regards
Hare Krishna Prabhuji,
Yes exactly. That's why I left the place when he started saying all this. In the past, I had asked such people that before formation of their institution (in late 1800s), for so many years, were everyone not intelligent enough to realize that whatever they were doing was wrong / fake (like deity worship, reading puranas etc.) ? To this they replied "Yes". After that I understood that there is not point in any further discussion & stopped discussing spirituality with such people.
Haribol!
Hare Krishna,
PAMHO
There is a story I would like to present to you, but I have forgotten some of the details, please forgive me if I get something wrong. I will try to give you a gist.
Lord Shri Krisha asked Lord Shiva to visit Earth and tell the people to stop following Lord Shri Krishna. Lord Shiva was shocked and asked Lord Shri Krishna the reason behind it. Lord Shri Krishna then explains that He wants to segregate the pure devotees of Lord Shri Krishna from the rest. Lord Shiva came to Earth as Sankaracharya and spread his teachings, but the pure devotees of Lord Shri Krishna did not follow him, while many others did. That is how Lord Shri Krishna figured out who His pure devotees were.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Shri Krishna, works in mysterious ways. Have faith in Him. This was probably a test for you, which seems to me that you passed with flying colours.
Dandwat Pranam
Warm Regards
I needed to add another thing...
I remember Prabhupada saying about Mayavadis and impersonalists...
They always seem to want to help people.. build schools, hospitals etc always seem to have so much money. Also never seem to read Bhagavatam. Have an obsure spiritual line (always state they believe in shiva) but dont follow any of the 4 spiritual lines). In the end they hodge podge religisits who just want to DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. They dont want to follow Any spiritual line. In the end the always end up believeing in SHIVA or sharcharya. Or some obscure guru who is famous at that time. People follow them for a while but because they dont read Bhagavatam people leave as thier core beliefs are simply to chant AUM or something and its gets pretty boring.., .....
Krishna.
Hare Krishna Prabhuji!
I would add some more things. They would also never leave a single chance to defame the devotees. I had mentioned in past here on ISKCON DESIRE TREE regarding a YouTube channel (an Arya Samaji) who would go to ISKCON Vrindavan & many other temples of Vrindavan & also to the devotees residing there and would claim on his channel that the devotees are superstitious etc. Those channels are full of content criticizing the devotees (for some reason, they attack only ISKCON).
I have never seen any such acts being performed by Vaishnavas. On the other hand, on the Youtube channel Bhakti Today (being run by a ISKCON devotee couple in Vrindavan), I saw a video in which they tell us not to engage in unnecessary quarrels with people of other sampradayas. On one hand, vaishnavas are telling people not to create obstacles in spiritual path of others, and, on the other hand, they (non-devotees mentioned above) are themselves defaming the devotees.
Haribol!
I couldnt help myself, made myself...I think this explain a lot. :)
the mere fact he doesnt believe bhagavatam is a true text says volumes for his core beliefs. He doesnt believe God has form (spiritual) but is formless. IF he read Bhagavatam his core beliefs would be nullified. So of course he will try to avoid Bhagavatam and obstuct his path to real bhakti.
From what i have read in Prabhupada books... Prabhupada says Mayavadi impersonalists will find any way to deride Gods form (spiritual). They are not after pure bhakti they still have HUDE propensity for sence gratification (the mere fact they think they can have a body (with a soul) but God cannot have a spiritual body).
Over the years I have come across people like this (thankfully) only online. Of couse they believe in sharcharya (ANYBODY who have arya samaj views will always believe in shancracharya).
This is what Prabhupada called 'hogde podge' religion.