Hare Krishna to all devotee,

All glories to Srila Prabhupada,

Can anyone tell me the reference of this Guru-Mantra,

Guru Brahma Gurur Vishnu
Guru Devo Maheshwaraha
Guru Saakshat Para Brahma
Tasmai Sree Gurave Namaha.

I have some question related to this above sloka. Plz Solve my below query.

1. Is this sloka mention in any scriptures?

2. Why Srila Prabhupada not mention this sloka in his any books?

2. Mainly people chant this mantra on Guru-Purnima?

3. Guru-Purnima is apperance day of Srila Veda Vyasa deva. But why Sai BABA devotee celebrate this festival. I think they don't celebrate apperance day of Srila Veda Vyasa deva, they celebrate apperance day of Sai BABA as a guru.?

4. Who is Guru?

5. Can guru become para brahma as in above sloka "Guru Saakshat Para Brahma" ?

plz forgive me if i asked something which is not related to this forum. and plz don't mind my english is poor.

Hari Bol

Your Servant

Ghanshyam Panda

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    Morning Walk

    December 20, 1975, Bombay

    Prabhupada: Suppose if you come from other side and you land on Arabian desert, does it mean that you have gone...

    Indian man: They have gone on earth, some other part of the place...

    Prabhupada: And I say they have not gone to moon, that is my point. (laughter)

    Dr. Patel: They have become "moonies."

    Prabhupada: The might have gone to some hell, that is, I have no objection.

    Indian man: Or the moon or anything.

    Prabhupada: Huh? (laughing) This is a little revolting (revolutionary). But I am speaking from the very beginning. Yes, I wrote that Easy Journey to Other Planets in 1958, and you'll find this statement in my book. It is all childish.

    Dr. Patel: You have to be yogi for that.

    Prabhupada: I am yogi because I am taking lessons from the yogis...

    Dr. Patel: Yoga dharana.

    Prabhupada: Yes. Yogi, I am taking lesson from Sukadeva Gosvami. I may be fool, but I am taking lesson from the yogi. Yes. So yatra yogesvarah krishnah tatra srir vijayo bhutir [Bg. 18.78]. I don't require to be a yogi. I take shelter of the yogesvara.

    Dr. Patel: Yoginam api sarvesham mad-gatenantaratmana [Bg. 6.47].

    Prabhupada: So, my problem, there is no problem, because as soon as there is Krishna, srir, vibhutir, victory, everything is there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. So we have got everything, but I am not a yogi. We must believe in the words of Bhagavad-gita. Yatra yogesvarah krishnah yatra dhanur-dharah parthah tatra srir vibhutir vijayo. Everything is there. That art we have to learn, that let us become dependent like Arjuna on Krishna, then everything is there.

    Dr. Patel: Krishnah sarva-bhutanam hrid-dese 'rjuna tishthati.

    Prabhupada: Yes, and He teaches also...

    Dr. Patel: You consult Krishna within before you do...

    Prabhupada: Yes, but Krishna is not so foolish that He will give consultation...

    Dr. Patel: He'll give consultation free of charge...

    Prabhupada: ...to the nondevotees. Arjuna was a devotee. That tesham satata-yuktanam bhajatam prithi-purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. One who is constantly engaged in Krishna's service, to him He gives intelligence, not to the rascals. Krishna is there, but—even in the heart of the pig or dog—but He does not give any instruction to the pig and dog. They must suffer. But only to the devotees: tesham satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam. To them. Otherwise Krishna is staying everywhere.

    Dr. Patel: To them He gives yoga-kshemam.

    Prabhupada: Yes, that is open to even cats and dog. You'll get your food. They're getting their food. That is not very difficult thing. Eko yo bahunam yo vidadhati kaman. Krishna is..., Krishna, He can, ah, bhu-bhrit, bhuta-bhrit. His name is bhuta-bhrit. He is maintaining everyone.

    Dr. Patel: Bhuta-bhrit, bhutastho.

    Prabhupada: Bhuta-bhrit means (Hindi). All living entities are being...

    Dr. Patel: But He is bhutastho also.

    Prabhupada: That is also, but another name is bhuta-bhrit. He maintains all living entities. So that is not a very difficult job.

    Dr. Patel: But sir, I want to ask a question. In Bhagavad-gita He says, "I am in them, and I am not in them also." That means, sir, both His, all the beings are in the...

    Prabhupada: No, "not in them" for the understanding of these rascals whose takes it that because Narayana is everyone, heart, then everyone is Narayana, daridra-narayana.

    Dr. Patel: Not daridra.

    Prabhupada: Or to warn these rascals, He says, "I am not there. I am not there."

    Dr. Patel: It is not like that, that He is there...

    Prabhupada: Because he is a foolish man, if you say "Because Narayana is there, everyone is Narayana," he will misunderstand. Therefore Krishna says, "No, I am not there." Na caham teshv avasthitah. This is the...

    Dr. Patel: Would it not be considered like this, sir, that He is in the Golok as well as here?

    Prabhupada: Yes, Goloka, position of, goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhuto [Bs. 5.37], that is Krishna.

    Dr. Patel: Akhilatma-bhuto.

    Prabhupada: But don't take that because akhilatma bhuto, Narayana is in the dog, therefore I have to worship dog. This is going on. Daridra-narayana. And why not dhani-narayana? What is the.... This foolishness is going on. And Narayana is everywhere. If you have such a, I mean to say, advanced vision, that Narayana is everywhere—that is also mentioned; therefore you should keep respect—then why do you make discrimination, that only daridra-narayana? Why not dhani-narayana?

    Indian man: Last time you gave the example of the curd and the milk. That was very good example.

    Prabhupada: Yes. Why the..., not dhani-narayana? Or the dog Narayana or the goat Narayana? Goat Narayana cut his throat; fish Narayana cut his throat...

    Dr. Patel: Atmavat sarva-bhuteshu, sir.

    Prabhupada: These rascals are going on. Therefore Krishna says, "I am not there, naham teshv avasthitah," to teach these rascals. Otherwise, they'll misunder...

    Dr. Patel: Does it not mean, sir, that naham teshv avasthitah, "I am staying in Goloka"?

    Prabhupada: No, no. He says, maya tatam idam sarvam [Bg. 9.4], "I am everywhere, but still I am not there." Because these rascals will misunderstand.

    Dr. Patel: It seems ambiguous to understand, sir.

    Prabhupada: Not ambiguous. It requires knowledge from the guru.

    Dr. Patel: So we have come.

    Prabhupada: If you manufacture your own knowledge, then you'll never be able to understand. (everyone laughs) Tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] compulsory. You cannot understand; that is not possible. My Guru Maharaja used to say that the honey, huh? Honey, honey, if somebody says, "Take this honey," the bottle, and he began to lick up the bottle: "It is not sweet. Why it is not sweet?" You go to a person who can open the bottle. (laughter) Then you'll see. You cannot taste the sweetness of honey by licking up the bottle. It must be... There must be some expert who can open it, and then you can taste. So they are trying to taste the honey in the bottle by their own imagination and licking up the bottle. Where is the taste? Otherwise why Krishna says,

    tad viddhi pranipatena

    pariprasnena sevaya

    upadekshyanti te jnanam

    jnaninas tattva-darsinah

    [Bg. 4.34]

    One who has seen, one who knows where is the honey is there, go there, and he'll open, and you'll understand.

    Dr. Patel: So "I am not there for the rascals, and I am there for you," like that, is that the meaning you say?

    Prabhupada: Huh?

    Dr. Patel: "I am not there for the rascals, and I am there for those who are tattva-darsanas."

    Prabhupada: Yes. That is the way of learning everything. You cannot learn your medical science from a pan-wala. You have to go to a medical college.

    Dr. Patel: They also give some (gowdies?) in the pan.

    Prabhupada: But you cannot take your degree from the pan wala. Nowadays some of the rascals, they are preaching openly that you haven't got to go to a guru. Huh, is it not?

    Indian man: Krishnamurti is...

    Prabhupada: Yes, this rascal was speaking like that.

    Devotee: He has thousands of disciples.

    Prabhupada: Such kind of.... as he is.

    Dr. Patel: Nehi, krishnam vande jagat-gurum. He is a jagat-guru, if you approach Him also, there is no, I mean physical guru nearby, krishnam jagat-gurum, krishnam vande jagat-gurum.

    Prabhupada: Yes...

    Dr. Patel: He is jagat-guru...

    Prabhupada: ...you have to go to Krishna not directly: yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **. You have to go through the devotee of Krishna.

    Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit)

    Prabhupada: That is adau sraddha. If you have got faith in Krishna, then next stage is tato sadhu-sangah. And who is sadhu? Bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. So if you want to see Krishna, you have to see first of all His devotee. Mam bhaktya puja bhudhikah. This is also.... "If you worship My devotee, that is better worship than worshiping Me directly." Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, guru-krishna-kripaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. He doesn't say by Krishna-kripa, he says guru-krpa, first. Guru-krishna-kripaya paya bhakti-lata-bija.

    Dr. Patel: Gurur brahma, gurur vishnuh, they say that.

    Sravanananda: Some life members (indistinct).... completely ridiculous. They were worshiping everything as God, so in every temple they go in they would pay their obeisances, and if there is some tree, they will pay their obeisances, if there is some stone or brick, and is covered with kumkuma and turmeric, they would also pay their obeisances.

    Prabhupada: So, what is the question?

    Dr. Patel: Your answer is all right. Gurur brahma gurur vishnuh. So I mean that is the philosophy of...


    sakshad-haritvena samasta-sastrair

    yuktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih

    kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya

    vande guroh sri caranaravindam

    In every sastra you'll find, just like you say, gurur brahma gurur vishnuh. In other words, sakshad-haritvena, directly Hari.

    Dr. Patel: Sakshad-hari.

    Prabhupada: Sakshad-haritvena samasta-sastrair. Not that in a particular.... In all the sastra. And sakshad-haritvena samasta-sastrair yukta, "It is said," tatha, bhavyata eva sadbhih, "and this is accepted by all authorities."

    Dr. Patel: Sadbhih.

    Prabhupada: Yes. Sadbhih. Not asadbhih. Asadhbhi says "No, no. I don't require a guru. You make me guru." If I don't require a guru, then why you rascal you are speaking this? You are teaching, why you are teaching me?

    Devotee: Last night's question on that...

    Prabhupada: Yes. If you don't require a guru, then why you are teaching me, if you don't require a guru? Hare Krishna. Jaya. (to passerby) These people, they say like that. You don't require guru. You don't require a book to study; everything you'll get, within.

    Dr. Patel: That is one of the...

    Prabhupada: Why you are writing book? Everything is within. All right, but why you are writing book to convince? And why you are teaching them there is no need of guru? That means you want to be guru. All other gurus useless. Just see!

    Dr. Patel: They, they'll say that their mind is a part of the samasti mind, and you ...

    Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, I require your help to understand it. Therefore you become my guru. If I require your help to understand something, that is guru. And you say there is no need of guru. Then why you are taking trouble, to teach me this nonsense?

    Dr. Patel: If.. guru is necessity right from the birth, the first guru is the mother...

    Prabhupada: And these rascals they preach like that: there is no need of guru.

    Dr. Patel: I think they are wrong.

    Prabhupada: Therefore rascals simply.

    Dr. Patel: They are rascals, sir.

    Prabhupada: Yes. Simply rascals. Rascals means he does not know the thing, and he still preaches. Therefore rascal.

    Dr. Patel: That is how that Bhagavan has made so many gurus...

    Prabhupada: A guru.... Guru must be there. There are many they say like that—"There is no need of guru."

    Indian man: But do you have to make an effort to get a, to achieve a sad-guru?

    Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore Krishna says, tad viddhi pranipatena [Bg. 4.34]. Pranipata means you have to surrender there. So you are not a fool. When you submit somewhere, you must test, and then submit. That is sad-guru.

    Dr. Patel: They say, sir, that if you are very sincere, then the sad-guru comes automatically to you.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: As you have come to us.

    Prabhupada: Yes. Because Krishna is there, if He sees somebody is actually serious to understand Him—just like Dhruva Maharaja. Dhruva Maharaja, did not..., he did not make any guru, but with fervent desire he went, "Yes, I shall find out Krishna." Mother said "Krishna can be found in the forest," so he went to the forest, and he began according to his own way. Then Krishna sent Narada Muni, that "This boy is very serious. Go and give him real mantra." That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu, guru-krishna-kripaya paya bhakti-lata-bija [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Two things required: guru and Krishna. Guru-krishna-kripaya paya bhakti-lata-bija. Mali hana kare sei bija koro aropana. "I have got some seed of bhakti, and I keep it in the iron chest." No. You must make cultivation of bhakti-bija: mali hana sei bia koro aropana. And how to nourish the bija? Sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana: [Cc. Madhya 19.152] by sravanam kirtanam. Water is this. Then bhakti-lata will come out a tree, and you will get the fruits and enjoy.

    Dr. Patel: Smaranam kirtanam.... pada pujanam. Yes.

    Prabhupada: Kirtanam, arcanam, vandanam, dasyam...

    Dr. Patel: Kirtanam, vandanam, dasyam.... atma-nivedanam. (kirtana as Prabhupada approaches temple) (end)


    Morning Walk

    January 12, 1976, Bombay

    Prabhupada: ...finalization. Huh? Festival?

    Gopala Krishna: Finalized the dates of the festival.

    Prabhupada: Or by telephone. What is this?

    Gopala Krishna: Actually, I have to know today whether he's got the Ramaleela ground or not.

    Prabhupada: What is that ground?

    Gopala Krishna: Ramaleela ground for the festival. He was trying for that. [break]

    Prabhupada: ...is also stopped?

    Devotee (1): No, no, Srila Prabhupada. It's going on. [break]

    Gopala Krishna: One is Dr. Patel, and another man comes with him every morning. [break]

    Prabhupada: ...racing their cars for years together. And as soon as one car comes in our hand, within one hour finish and stand: "See that I have got a car." Make a show that "Here is a car." And for use, beg others, "Please give me your car." This is going on. [break] That Caitya-guru.

    Gopala Krishna: Caitya-guru. He is on the terrace doing his rounds. He is refusing to sign that letter, but he has turned over the possessions to me.

    Prabhupada: Huh?

    Gopala Krishna: He has turned over...

    Prabhupada: No, no, he must sign the.... Otherwise we shall have to inform. He must sign. He must sign. Otherwise we shall have to take steps.

    Gopala Krishna: He says, "First you prove that I'm guilty." But I said...

    Prabhupada: But this is your charge. You say that "I have not done it." Present him and you say in writing that "I have never done it. Now I shall do it." Otherwise we shall have to do the needful. [break] ...go to Mayapur. He is ready to go to Mayapur?

    Gopala Krishna: He is ready to go to Mayapur but not right away. But he'll join you in Mayapur.

    Prabhupada: Huh? No, he has to go with me.

    Gopala Krishna: Yes. Okay.

    Prabhupada: [break] That Bengali gentleman?

    Dr. Patel: Bhattacarya. I don't know him. He is staying here?

    Prabhupada: No. Where he is staying? You do not know. So did he come today in the mangala-arati?

    Dr. Patel: No, I don't know him, and I don't think I have seen him.

    Devotee (2): Bhattacharya doesn't come to mangala-arati.

    Dr. Patel: ...the all Patels are giving you right now from Africa.

    Prabhupada: But not here.

    Dr. Patel: Ninety percent of the.... Here they are very poor. Those who are in States are rich.

    Prabhupada: You are not poor. Hare Krishna.

    Dr. Patel: We are poor as compared to.... We just live, no? Three percent(?) we acquire for our status.(?) We don't require much money.

    Prabhupada: [break] ...death.

    Dr. Patel: Death is an artifact. There is no death. That is what Arjuna thought, and now, still, sir, you say they are dead. What is death? There is no death?

    Prabhupada: Arjuna's thought is different. That is Arjuna's thought. I mean these people, these materialists...

    Dr. Patel: Acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam akledyo asoshya eva ca.

    Prabhupada: ...they are actually dying and they are flying also.

    Dr. Patel: Who is dying? The body. The body is nothing but the earth.

    Prabhupada: They have no such conclusions. We have got, that is a different thing, but they are trying to kill the mosquitoes to save themselves, but they cannot save. That is my point. They cannot save. When the "death mosquito" will come, he has to accept it. That he cannot manu...

    Dr. Patel: He, after all, is what we call ego. When the ego dies, then, sir, there is no he or she or mosquito or man or anything, sir.

    Prabhupada: But he is not that man. He is trying to kill the mosquito to save himself from death. But that he cannot. That is my proposal.

    Dr. Patel: Yes. He could at least save the American government from catastrophe, how to drain before finishing this Panama Canal. The Panama Canal is an engineering feat, sir. The two sides, seas, are uneven, and they have made locks in the.... You must have seen that. No? They have locks. One side, sea is higher than the other, and they allow the ships to get to the middle lock, then pump in water and then bring on that side. Engineers must be knowing, you know. We had to study all these things, medical history.

    Prabhupada: So many medicines, vitamin D, vitamin C...

    Dr. Patel: All medicines, sir, vitamins, and all even hormones...

    Prabhupada: But why not discover something that you will save from death?

    Dr. Patel: But what is death, after all? Our forefathers found it out...

    Prabhupada: Then why you are trying to live?

    Dr. Patel: We want to make you live in a good way so that you can think well and solve your life. That is what we are doing. We don't want to keep your, this body going on for all the time. Who says, sir? I do not think that is the aim of the medical profession, to keep...

    Prabhupada: But they have to accept because they cannot do it.

    Dr. Patel: We give you health, sir, from the disease. We don't...

    Prabhupada: You cannot give health. Why he is dying?

    Dr. Patel: Dying is not health. We talk of health and disease, not of the death and life.

    Prabhupada: No. Unless there is some disease you do not die.

    Dr. Patel: No, what is disease? Disease is something...

    Prabhupada: Again you are coming to...

    Dr. Patel: ...that is not physiological. The end of physiology is death.

    Prabhupada: So why you are trying to cure it?

    Dr. Patel: We don't try to cure it. We.... According to our whim, we try to help nature's natural process. Who knows? We may be going against nature, for all that. We don't know.

    Prabhupada: No, no. What is the value of your health if you do not save him?

    Dr. Patel: The value of the health is being found out the whole over.

    Prabhupada: That is, I am asking you. (laughs)

    Dr. Patel: You know it better. Why ask me? Modern science is especially to give chemistry and biology. They have learned so much. I mean, practically they have really reached that position which the vaiseshika sastra reached in past. Vaiseshika is one of the six darsanas. They also tried to prove the existence of God and God creation by that method, because they also believed in Vedas. We are also trying to do the same thing by our own way. And real modern scientists have found out that nothing can happen without God. But you.... In your time, when you were a student, scientists were atheists. Now scientists are not atheists, sir. So I beseech you to remove that idea from you.

    Prabhupada: [break] Well, impersonal philosophers are more dangerous than the atheist.

    Dr. Patel: That you think.

    Prabhupada: No, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says.

    Dr. Patel: Let's not discuss about this, not go into it.

    Prabhupada: He said, veda na maniya bauddha haila nastika. Vedasraya bauddha-vada nastika ke adhika. We accept atheist, one who does not believe in the Vedas. Therefore we have rejected the Buddha philosophy. They could not exist in India. But those who are preaching atheism through Vedas, impersonal, they are more dangerous.

    Dr. Patel: That impersonal preaching is not atheism.

    Indian man: For example?

    Prabhupada: Anyone impersonalist—"God has no form." There are so many rascals. So he has got form to speak against God, and God has no form. This is going on all over the world. He speaks against the God, that "God is not a person." So he is person, and God is not person. Just see their foolishness. He is made by God, and he is a person, and who made him, he is not a person. This is foolishness.

    Indian man: Yes, there's a good sense in it.

    Prabhupada: Everything.... But therefore they are senseless, that "I am person, my father is person..."

    Indian man: No, my father is not my person.

    Prabhupada: No, no. It is understood that I am person, my father is person, his father is person, and the supreme father is not a person. Just see. If the supreme father is not a person, then wherefrom these personal fathers came here? Mudho nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam. "Mam"—this is person. The mudhas cannot understand that the supreme father is a person. Therefore Arjuna, at the, when he understood Bhagavad-gita, he declared that "It is very, very difficult..." (aside:) Hare Krishna. Jaya. Hare Krishna. "...to understand Your personality. It is very, very difficult." Arjuna has said. And he has accepted Him as person, purusham sasvatam: "You are eternally person." Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam, purusham sasvatam divyam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. These things are there. The real understanding is there. And he said, "This is.... This is accepted by Vyasadeva, Narada, Devala." Svayam caiva: "And You are also speaking." Then where is the question of imperson? Hare Krishna. And therefore He, Krishna, says bahunam janmanam ante jnanvan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. "You are person; I surrender unto You"—this knowledge comes after many, many births of this impersonalist. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma [Bg. 7.19]. "That great mahatma is very rare." So one who believes and accepts the Supreme as person, he immediately becomes a mahatma. Otherwise he remains duratma.

    Dr. Patel: Small atma. He's a mahatma. He's a small atma.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Indian man: Who believe in that.

    Prabhupada: Believe not. Not only believe, but convinced, "Yes, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]." Then he is mahatma.

    Dr. Patel: Everything is Vasudeva. There is nothing excepting God. In that way there is no maya because maya is also a part of God.

    Indian man: In bhakti you surrender. Then you get the jnana.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Indian man: After bhakti you get the jnana. (Hindi) We mudhas, we go on argument, but unless and until we mudhas are convinced, we will remain mudhas. We can't help it.

    Prabhupada: There are big mudhas who are never convinced.

    Dr. Patel: Like me. (laughs)

    Prabhupada: No, no, listen...

    Dr. Patel: I will argue with you instead of.... Maharaja, you see, I have.... Again we had a very great altercation within myself. I was a.... [break] I may tell you, I have studied the Vaishnava's philosophy from various angles. The last two years I have been making a very deep study of it, and I am a student of this theologian philosophy. I think he is absolutely right, that complete surrendering to God by bhakti...

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: ...you get complete jnana.

    Prabhupada: Yes. That's it.

    Dr. Patel: I was.... Before I thought it was not so, but it is so.

    Indian man: But as you are convinced, but I am not convinced.

    Dr. Patel: Therefore you read like me and you will be convinced. You study like me, go to temple...

    Prabhupada: Then you are still a mudha.

    Indian man: Yes, I am still a mudha. According to you, I am a mudha. But according to me, though I am mudha, but I don't feel that I am mudha. "The man who knows not but who knows not that he knows not, he's a first-class fool." Like that.

    Prabhupada: That is the great problem of the mudhas, that he is mudha, but he is thinking, "I am not mudha."

    Indian man: Yes, that is the point. Everybody knows it.

    Dr. Patel: Now, you see, impersonal and personal God, I am talking. I.... Perhaps you may not like. You know, the people.... You see, impersonal God is nothing but the emanation of God. As he said, the brahmajyoti, or what as he once gave me that example, that sun and its rays, if you put a sort of mirror, you see the same sun there through the rays. Don't you? In the same way, you may see God everywhere that way, but real God is sun. Like that, God is there, but His emanation is Brahman. Parabrahman is God; Brahman is jyoti.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: Am I right?

    Prabhupada: Very good. Thank you very much.

    Devotees: Jaya!

    Dr. Patel: So you go to Brahman but not to Parabrahman. When you try to realize Parabrahman, that is personal God; Brahman is impersonal God. Right, sir?

    Prabhupada: And He says, brahmano 'ham pratishtha: "Brahmajyoti is emanating from Me." Brahmajyoti, although impersonal, it is coming from Krishna.

    Dr. Patel: So I will one day preach in your place. (laughs) I will.... (Hindi) I was a professor in college, and I have got a knack of explaining everything. Yes.

    Indian man: So, all right. I will be your sishya.

    Dr. Patel: And then you become his sishya, that's all, indirect sishya. For the last two year I have been only reading all the great writings of Vaishnava saints and Vaishnava acaryas because I read a lot of Sankaracarya and others, and even, even post—what do you call—Buddhist philosophy, different lines, half a dozen of them. When I read the Vaishnavas' teaching I think that.... Personally, you see, there are so many children, but your own son, you say, "This is my son." The personal relationship, when established, takes you far ahead psychologically. Am I right, sir? That is how personal God...

    Prabhupada: And if you take care of your own son, nobody will criticize you that "Why are you taking care of your own son, not others? Nobody will.... That is natural. That is explained in the Bhagavad.... Samo 'ham sarva-bhuteshu

     [Bg. 9.29]. He is equal to everyone. But one who is a devotee, "I take special care."

    Dr. Patel: "He is in Me, and I am in him."

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: That is why all the great bhaktas, all the great, I mean, say, Narsi Meta(?) or Mirabai, they have worshiped personal God and merged in personal God in toto. Their, that what we call that ego is washed away by the sacred, I mean, this thing of God. Our impersonal philosophers are there, but they are not so well known. That is why he said that personal God and, I mean, worshiping personal God, you are immediately raised to that status from where you will be able to get jnana.

    Prabhupada: [break] There was one teacher in my school, he used to say that "One who is slow to understand, he is slow to forget also."

    Dr. Patel: Yes, that's a fact. It's really a fact.

    Prabhupada: And one who understands quickly and he forgets quickly. So Dr. Patel has understood slowly. So he'll never forget it.

    Dr. Patel: But I...

    Indian man: Actually that is a fact.

    Dr. Patel: I have been very critical within myself. All my.... All my studies, medical, otherwise, I have been always...

    Prabhupada: Oh, yes, yes, critical...

    Dr. Patel: I have studied even geology.

    Prabhupada: Critical student, that is...

    Dr. Patel: Out of just fun, what it is about. I am a student all round.

    Prabhupada: Hare Krishna. Jaya. (Hindi) [break] It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita, tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena [Bg. 4.34]. Pariprasna is required, but after pranipata.

    Dr. Patel: Surrendering yourself. In school also they say if you develop a sort of a liking for your teacher, a sort of a reverence is developed in you, and then you get knowledge much quicker.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: If you take your teacher to be a servant of yours, then you won't...

    Prabhupada: That is Vedic principle. Yasya deve para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau [SU 6.23]. Then he'll get knowledge. Hare Krishna.

    Dr. Patel: That is why guru brahma gurur vishnur guruh sakshad mahesvarah.

    Prabhupada: Yes. That is fact. Sakshad dharitvena samasta-sastraih. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says, guru-krishna-krpa: "By the mercy of guru and Krishna."

    Dr. Patel: Guru is a go-between God and we ourselves.

    Prabhupada: Yes, via media, via media.

    Dr. Patel: He holds your hand and gives that hand to God. That is guru. That is what I think. Am I right in a way?

    Prabhupada: Transparent medium. [break] (Hindi) ...realization.

    Dr. Patel: Realization is more important. Realization. Unless you realize, all is anti-thought.(?) Saksad paro gatim.

    Prabhupada: Just like I am seeing you; you are seeing me.

    Dr. Patel: That is saksad...

    Prabhupada: That is...

    Dr. Patel: Just as you know that hydrogen and oxygen when brought together forms water. But then you make it and see it...

    Prabhupada: [break] ...tato bhavah sadhakanam ayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah. [break] Vaishnava doesn't make any discrimination that "He is Hindu," "He is Muslim," "He is this and that." He takes everyone as servant of Krishna. [break] In India the caste brahmanas criticize me that "Swami Bhaktivedanta is putting Hindu dharma ruin." Yes.

    Dr. Patel: Bhagavad-gita never.... I think catur-varnyam maya srishtam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. Not by birth vibhagasah.

    Prabhupada: Never.

    Dr. Patel: It is by guna and karma.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: Not by position of birth.

    Prabhupada: No, it is clearly explained by Narada Muni, that one has to be judged by the qualification. If the qualification.... Yady anyatrapi disetah. If the qualification is somewhere else, then he must be designated by that qualification. Just like.... doctor's.... (Hindi) [break] ...qualification of medical man and you are practicing, that's all. Who is concerned with your caste?

    Dr. Patel: So catur-varna is according to guna and karma.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: Not according to his birth and position of money, birth and wealth.

    Prabhupada: And anyone can be trained up to be qualified. That medical science is open to everyone. It is not that "Such and such caste can come here." No, anyone, if you are qualified, that's all. They are accusing me that I am ruining Hinduism, but they have ruined the Hinduism.

    Dr. Patel: You say, sir, "The Bengalis have ruined Hinduism; I am salvaging it." Another Bengali is salvaging the ruined Hinduism. Bengalis ruined the.... Whole Bengal, half of Bengal turned Islamic and this because of these brahmanas.

    Prabhupada: That is everywhere, in Punjab also. Punjab also, the same thing.

    Dr. Patel: One man was cast out and he was not taken back, so he converted half of the Bengal into Islam.

    Prabhupada: No. Our Krishna consciousness movement is: "Doesn't matter what you are. Now you become trained up. Whatever you are, it doesn't matter."

    Dr. Patel: But so many Muslims have become very good, I mean, Vaishnava saints.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: There are some examples in Vrindavana.

    Prabhupada: And I have got many disciples.

    Dr. Patel: Vrindavana, there are two, three of them, I mean, not here, but Arabics.

    Prabhupada: Yes. Caitanya Mahaprabhu converted many Pathans to become Vaishnava. He changed the name. One Pathan was named Ramadasa. Just like I have changed Ramjan into Rama-ranjana, Attar into Atreya Rishi.

    Dr. Patel: Atreya. You have got such chelas there?

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: No, I think we must.... If.... Now the modern world is getting smaller and smaller and, I mean, the Islamic countries are also getting women with the modern sciences and...

    Prabhupada: When I was in, what is called? Tehran. Tehran. Many Muslims were coming.

    Dr. Patel: They are all Aryans. They are more enlightened people.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Dr. Patel: In fact, they were the real Aryans. Iran.

    Prabhupada: Iran, yes, Aryan.

    Dr. Patel: That Gatha (Zoroastrim Scriptures) is practically sixty percent Sanskrit language.

    Prabhupada: Gatha?

    Dr. Patel: Gatha. They have got a.... These Zoroastins read Gatha just like Bhagavad-gita. I have read it. I could understand very easily because it's Sanskrit dialect language. One professor has come from United States. He is staying here in a school of Parsis, and I am the doctor of that school. He said that this is completely Vedic religion. He has studied the Vedic philosophy also. He is teaching theology in some university of United States. He stays here in this.... [break] ...worse than, I think, most...

    Prabhupada: But it is democracy. Because we are sinful, we have made a sinful government. It is democracy. Formerly the personal monarchy.... There is no monarchy. It is democracy.

    Dr. Patel: It is demon-cracy.

    Prabhupada: Demoncracy, yes.

    Dr. Patel: Demoncracy.

    Prabhupada: Why you accuse government? Government is your election.

    Dr. Patel: Now she is not going to have any more elections. "Elections are not necessary. People have given me the mandate to rule over them."

    Prabhupada: Yes, that's nice. If the dictator, executive officer, is very nice, religious, then there is no need of this election.

    Dr. Patel: Oh, she goes to the temples, all right. (laughs) (Hindi)

    Prabhupada: No, no. She has got the tendency of spiritual life and she requires improvement. That's all. She has spoken in Chandigarh that "Now we require spiritualism." Hm?

    Dr. Patel: (Hindi) She is shamming, sir. Shamming. Shamming. She is not truthful to any of her words.

    Prabhupada: Hm?

    Dr. Patel: She is not truthful to what she says.

    Prabhupada: [break] Any circumstances, they can adjust. [break] Oh, Ganga-sagara.

    Sridhara: Yes. That's on the fourteenth, tomorrow.

    Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Hare Krishna. [break] ...stand where there is water then they will manage everything. Water must be there.

    Tamala Krishna: [break] ...Americans to live like this is totally impossible. They'd have to commit suicide. If they can't find the bathroom they won't know what to do. They have to pass stool. But water won't concern them because they don't bother bathing. They need a toilet, though.

    Prabhupada: [break] ...for taking bath in the junction of Ganges and the sea. Just see how people are enthusiastic, coming from long, long distance, Ganga-sagara. Ganga means Ganges, and sagara means the sea. [break] ...it means they keep their lota, you see. [break] ...bathing in this cold water.

    Tamala Krishna: [break] ...they'd be bothered by the boats being here.

    Prabhupada: Huh?

    Tamala Krishna: They don't seem to be bothered by these boats.

    Prabhupada: No. No. [break] ...childhood I was taking bath. I used to come with my mother. She took bath; I also took bath.

    Tamala Krishna: (laughs) She'd bring you. [break] Madhya Pradesh?

    Prabhupada: [break] Hare Krishna.

    Tamala Krishna: They are coming from so far. Rajasthan.

    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Tamala Krishna: [break] ...try to do this you get arrested, living on the street, bathing in the river. [break] Jayapataka is very intelligent. He could understand if we weren't there, we must be here. He looks like Vivekananda with that hat.

    Prabhupada: (chuckles) [break] And see how their lota is cleansed.

    Tamala Krishna: Shiny. Is that a special point, Prabhupada?

    Prabhupada: Yes. That means that how cleansed they are. That is the point. [break] ...is if their lota is so cleansed how they are personally clean. (end)





    CC Adi Lila




    The real Vedic philosophy is acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, which establishes everything to be simultaneously one with and different from the Personality of Godhead. Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami confirms that this is the real position of a bona fide spiritual master and says that one should always think of the spiritual master in terms of his intimate relationship with Mukunda (Sri Krishna). Srila Jiva Gosvami, in his Bhakti-sandarbha (213), has clearly defined that a pure devotee's observation of the spiritual master and Lord Siva as one with the Personality of Godhead exists in terms of their being very dear to the Lord, not identical with Him in all respects. Following in the footsteps of Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami and Srila Jiva Gosvami, later acaryas like Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura have confirmed the same truths. In his prayers to the spiritual master, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura confirms that all the revealed scriptures accept the spiritual master to be identical with the Personality of Godhead because he is a very dear and confidential servant of the Lord. Gaudiya Vaishnavas therefore worship Srila Gurudeva (the spiritual master) in the light of his being the servitor of the Personality of Godhead. In all the ancient scriptures of devotional service and in the more recent songs of Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and other unalloyed Vaishnavas, the spiritual master is always considered either one of the confidential associates of Srimati Radharani or a manifested representation of Srila Nityananda Prabhu.

  • CC Adi Lila




    The real Vedic philosophy is acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, which establishes everything to be simultaneously one with and different from the Personality of Godhead. Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami confirms that this is the real position of a bona fide spiritual master and says that one should always think of the spiritual master in terms of his intimate relationship with Mukunda (Sri Krishna). Srila Jiva Gosvami, in his Bhakti-sandarbha (213), has clearly defined that a pure devotee's observation of the spiritual master and Lord Siva as one with the Personality of Godhead exists in terms of their being very dear to the Lord, not identical with Him in all respects. Following in the footsteps of Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami and Srila Jiva Gosvami, later acaryas like Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura have confirmed the same truths. In his prayers to the spiritual master, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura confirms that all the revealed scriptures accept the spiritual master to be identical with the Personality of Godhead because he is a very dear and confidential servant of the Lord. Gaudiya Vaishnavas therefore worship Srila Gurudeva (the spiritual master) in the light of his being the servitor of the Personality of Godhead. In all the ancient scriptures of devotional service and in the more recent songs of Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and other unalloyed Vaishnavas, the spiritual master is always considered either one of the confidential associates of Srimati Radharani or a manifested representation of Srila Nityananda Prabhu.

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