Hare Krishna ,
AGTSP , PAHMO ..
Today i was hearing the commentry of Live Telecast Of Rath Yatra Of Puri ,
actually these were based on formless aspect of god ,as these fools think if god is omnipresent , he should only have formless aspect . They think that God ( impersonal bhraman ) bears a body , and propagate , everything is one , depend on your mood of worship .
These people quote that deity of God is imagination , and preach same . And People they clap when they hear it . But if you say deity is not imagination , then they quote from famous religious personalities as if they are themselve God .
While hearing they mentioned that Jagannath Puri is non-sectarian , all religon people Vaishnava ,Shivaities ,Jainism , Buddhist etc.
They said Vaishnava believes Balbhadra as Balrama , Shivaites says it is lord shiva , and a type of Rudra . So what is truth , because Skand Purana ,Padam Puran ,etc mentions the discription of Lord Jagannath in Brief , but these puranas , mahabhrata , All Acharya's have not said like Rudra being Balbhadra . People still think Krsna to be avtar of Vishnu , and every one still have thinking Bhrama,Vishnu,Sadasiva - are all one . And every other avtar comes from them ..
I am amazed when i hear Vaishnava a sect or cult .
It is mentioned in Padma Purana , Garga Samhita and many other places about Vaishnava Dharma , and the authenticated sampradaya how come it is sect ?
I think concept of formless god is very good idea to bake chapatis , and show secularism .
Otherwise you can be thorn of eyes for anyone opposite to truth
If it is so , what should i call this material world ,as they also have their own way of thinking .
Replies
One thing I never understand about impersonalists. God means one who is the controller. But if God is formless then he can not be controller it's not possible because God would have no hands, no senses, no nothing so how can he even think and what to speak of controlling??? Impersonalism is just atheism in the guise of religion.
And Vaisnavism is not sectarianism. WHY? Because it is following this instruction of Krishna from Bhagavad Gita:
Bg 18.66 — Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.
Vaisnaism is universal religion which teaches us about selfless love and surrender unto God and is the essence of all religions present in this world.
Basically there was one dharma i.e. Vaishnava dharma. It was only when Shiva established the pashupata order as he was ordered to do so by The Lord and when atheists and demons started worshipping Kali and Durga that Vaishnavas were confined to the identity of a sect. The Vedas and Upanishads and the Puranas-the purpose of all them is to glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita---
vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo(By all the Vedas, I am to be known.) And Vaishnava means worshipper of Krishna. So we are worshipper of ultimate Truth.Only Vaishnavas have perfect Vedic knowledge beacuse we take and follow the words that directly comes from the Supreme authority and never manufacture anything with blunt material senses. How can this just be a sect??? This is a perfect religion. What is religion??? Srila Prabhupada says- Religion means to know God and love God. And who is God??? 'krishnastu bhagavan swayam', 'ishwarah paramah krishnah'.
( Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19)). The path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguments cannot help lead one to the right path. Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in spiritual life.
Ours is perfect religion. Only those who are 'mudah' fail to understand Krishna and our religion.
Iwas hearing too. Everytime the commentators were quoting from Mayavadi purports. There was no mention of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who is Lord Jagannath Himself.
Mayavadis are illusionists because they teach the philosophy of Maya or Illusion.
They wrongly conclude that the manifestation of material nature [prakriti] is only illusion and therefore false. However according to the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, this is not so. The manifestation of the world is not accepted as false; it is accepted as real, but temporary and occasional. This material manifestation takes place at a certain interval, stays for a while and then disappears.
The creation and annihilation of the material world take place in terms of the time factor, which is the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the supreme Lord so much adored by impersonalist philosophers.
The material creation seems to be separated from the Lord as external energy due to this time factor. This can be understood by the example of a tape recorder. It is something like the tape recorded voice of a person who is now separated from the voice. As the tape recording is situated on the tape, so the whole cosmic manifestation is situated on the Lord's material energy and appears separate by means of kala.
The Mayavadi illusionists do not know that the material nature [prakriti] is ever existing in its subtle form [pradhana] as the energy of the Lord, but it sometimes manifests this nonexistent or temporarily existent nature, the cosmos [SB 3.26.9]. The material manifestation is therefore the objective manifestation of the Supreme Lord
In Bhagavad-gita the Lord refers to this as 'my prakriti'. This prakriti consists of the three modes of material nature: sattva-guna, raja-guna, tama-guna, which stand for equilibrium, motion and inertia. The interaction of material nature takes place when the equilibrium of the three gunas is disturbed by the time factor. Therefore, kala or eternal time is the primeval cause of the interactions of the three modes of material nature. Time creates, time maintains, time destroys, and this time factor is non other than the Lord.
Mayavadi philosophers are, as a class, non-devotees since they dont believe in the Personality of the Supreme Lord. Preaching impersonal atheistic philosophy, they naturally are misled almost in all occasions. Vaishnavas, as well as all theistic people, who share the common concept of a Supreme God, should beware of this atheistic mayavadi poison, in as much as milk touched by the lips of a serpent has poisonous effects.
Since the impersonal interpretation of the word theism already contradicts the dictionary understanding, one can easily understand how such an interpretation becomes the source of many arguments. Theo is God and God is the Supreme Person: the one without an equal - with no one superior to Him. If the Supreme had no personality, in some way He would already be less than all the thinking, feeling and willing persons of His creation. This idea is unacceptable to a Vaisnava, thus he cannot accept either Mayavada philosophy nor the Buddhist's or any other Impersonalist's interpretations of the final truth.
The Mayavadi philosophy is "veiled Buddhism." In other words, the voidist philosophy of Buddha is more or less repeated in the Mayavadi philosophy of impersonalism, although the Mayavadi philosophy claims to be directed by the Vedic conclusions. Lord Siva, however, admits that this philosophy is manufactured by him [in his incarnation as Sankaracarya] in the age of Kali in order to mislead the atheists.
Sankaracarya rejected Buddha's philosophy, which gives no information concerning the spirit soul. Buddha's philosophy deals only with the material elements and the dissolution of matter. Generally they compare the living entities to the bubbles of the ocean, which merge into the ocean; thus the goal of Buddhism is to merge everything into the voidness. For impersonalists this might be the highest perfection of spiritual existence attainable without individual personality, but for a devotee to dissolve his individuality would amount to "spiritual suicide".
Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita that among millions of people only few will search for the real truth and among them only few will really understand the truth.
Rascals' and fools' hearts are covered with dirt of envy and pride because of that they even do not have desire to surrender to Krishna. To accept God as an impersonal means to envy Him so much that one closes his eyes as like that Strauss bird.
And Krishna says that such like people will be put into hell or take birth in the animal forms of life for many life times. But He also says that such like people can be liberated only if My Devotees will be merciful to them.
Just few years back i also was one of them or still is, but by the mercy of a Devotee and Srila Prabhupada's books my heart some how was changed little bit.
I was against Deity worship. i used even to hate Indian movies just because of this Deity worship, how fallen and sinful i was??????????
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Because of that in preaching we have to be patient. We can not give high philosophy to yet karmi people. We have to find ways of bringing them first to the mode of goodness. give our association at the same time learning their nature. Then when they start to trust to us then we can give instruction to them something like reading Srila Prabhupada's books, visiting Temple programs, chanting...
Until they do not trust to our words our words will go vain and we will become frustrated.
Also it is very important to preach with our own actions - achar.
When we are enthusiastic about waking up early in the morning, attending mangala arati, chanting with Devotees, attending Bhagavatam and hearing it with great desire ...doing our material duties in a happy mood for the satisfaction of Krishna....in this way it is also preaching.
By being enthusiastic in these things we automatically say to others that it is very important. Chanting with Devotees is very important, attending Mangala Arati is important, serving to Deities is important...
Your servant,