Posted by Shubham on July 1, 2013 at 11:38pm in Bhakti
JAI ACHARYASJAI VAISHNAVASHARI BOL PRABHU JIS AND MATA JIS!WE RECEIVED THESE QUESTIONS IN MESSAGE TO WWW.FB.COM/KNOWGAURASUNDAR BUT THE ASKER IS NOT SATISFIED. PLEASE ANSSWER THEM FROM SCRIPTURES AND DEVOTEES AFTER READING CAREFULLY.Bill Kennedy•June 27Bill Kennedyo HKI am a philosophy student in America who is currently focusing on the problem of evil in phl of religion and was wondering if you could answer one quick question: If Gaurasundara was Bhagavan, why didn't he feed all of the living creatures of the world? Why did he spent all of his time chanting and dancing instead of providing clean drinking water or electricity for the earth's inhabitants? Some people say that it makes no sense for God to come to earth and provide no material goods, most especially food and water, to his creatures. Wondering if there is a good explanation for this.Thanks for your timeBill•YesterdayChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o Really inquisitive question. Thanks. Hari Bol•YesterdayChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o Bill Kennedy! Hare KrishnaNityananda GaurangaHari Bol!I pray to Vaishnavas and Supreme Lord Gaurachandra Krishna to make me an instrument in satisfying your query.According to VaishnavismThree types of people follow religious principles, rituals (there are more basis but this is based on level):1. These people worship God to get material profit and mental profit. They want money, food, luxury, good life, mental peace, etc. They think this is the only reason to become theist.2. These type of people worship Lord to get physical, mental and spiritual profit. They think material gain and spiritual gain both are going side by side.3. But in reality we see many poor, uneducated, so-called unfortunate, etc people becoming theists or better say sometimes devotees. Pure Devotees worship God just to get his causeless devotion which is greatest spiritual gain to be gained.In Vedic system, there are four goals of life normally: dharma, atha, kama, moksha.Dharma means following scriptures(in this case) to learn rules and knowledge.Artha means economic development through legal means.Kama means sense gratification restricted by Vedic injuctions.Moksha means liberation from cycle of Birth and Death.According to Vaishnavism, there is fifth goal- Prema or Love of God and it is beyond 4 goals of life. It is obtained by mercy of devotees, spiritual practices and God’s mercy, etc.Now, you said why Lord Gaurachandra gave people food and electricity?In Vedic religion people do not give priority to earning lot of money for luxury.They know that they are souls, not bodies and soul can be satisfied only by love of God. Therefore, Gaurachandra freely distributed love of God even to unqualified godless people at that time.Common reasoning is that God provides for even cats, dogs, trees, ant, elephants to every living beings, then why not to us? Also, In Vedas it is advised to adopt a proper means of livelihood just to maintain body for spiritual practices like chanting, dancing in devotion, reading scriptures, etc.SO, intelligent people do not hanker for artha or kama but moksha or even beyond- Bhakti which leads to Prema. Only it can satisfy the soul. Even amidst so many luxuries you can see that men is not satisfied and foolishly hankering for material happiness which is not satisfying at all. Also material existence in human body is temporary and miserable also. SO, Intelligent persons will try to develop love of God even from this life and earn enough money to maintain the body and may also preach this non-sectarian absolute philosophy of Krsna Consciousness to all. Infact, Bhakti or Devotion to God is our eternal duty.HOPING THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THE ANSWER. JAI NITAI GAURAHARI•YesterdayChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o HE FEED THE SOULS ETERNALLY, NOT BODIES TEMPORARILY.o HE ALSO FEEDS BODIES AS HE IS THE MASTER OF ALL- SUPREME LORD IN PARAMATMA FORM OR SUPERSOUL.o **IT IS WHY DO NOT GAVE FOOD AND ELECTRICITY?o PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR EMAIL. I HAVE COLLECTED A LOT FROM SCRIPTURES ABOUT WHY THERE IS EVIL IN THIS WORLD?Safety Reminder: Please be careful about sharing information with people you don't know. If you receive an inappropriate message, report the sender. Read more about internet safety.•20 hours agoBill Kennedyo HK That is not a satisfactory answer. If God really cared about his creatures, God would at least provide fresh drinking water so that they do not have to suffer. Thanks for trying though.•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o Hari Bol Jai AChrayas Vaishnavas Nama Prabhu Bhakti Devi Lord and his energies!•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o God cares about us. In scriptures which deal with falldown of jivas, it is written that we wanted to become God or imitate God, so God made this world for us to play god. Here evryone is trying to deny/ignore/underestimate God. ALthough God is all-pervasive , he is not perceivable to our senses so that we can forget and enjoy. But eventually one becomes frustrated and surrenders to Lord. Therefore Lord says Surrender unto me.•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o Even though we envy him, he is maintainig us, this world is not his desire, we desired it. Our original home is spiritual world where there are no miseries but yes there is no separate enjoyment. We can enjoy only as servants, not superficial masters.•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o If there is God, how can there be suffering and disease...Expressions researched:"If there is God, how can there be suffering and disease"Contents[hide]1 Correspondence1.1 1969 CorrespondenceCorrespondence1969 CorrespondenceThe similar question may be asked, "In the presence of an affectionate father, why should a child suffer from diseases?" God is the Supreme Father and He gives us the process for being relieved of our sufferings. But if one refuses to accept this gift of God, then he must suffer from the results of his activities. Anyone who is suffering or enjoying in this material world is doing so as a result of his own activities.•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_there_is_God,_how_can_there_be_suffering_and_disease...o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_there_is_God,_how_can_there_be_suffering_and_diseasewww.vaniquotes.orgShare•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o SB 4.29.26-27, Purport:These different types of bodies are explained in Bhagavad-gītā (13.22):puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hibhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇānkāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'syasad-asad-yoni-janmasu"The living entity in material nature follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil among various species.Because of associating with the modes of nature, the living entity gets a variety of bodies from the 8,400,000 forms. It is clearly explained herein that the living entity has a little independence, indicated by the word sva-dṛk, meaning "one who can see his own welfare." The living entity's constitutional position is very minute, and he can be misled in his choice. He may choose to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A servant may desire to start his own business and imitate his master, and when he chooses to do so, he may leave the protection of his master. Sometimes he is a failure, and sometimes he is successful. Similarly, the living entity, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, starts his own business to compete with the Lord. There are many competitors out to attain the Lord's position, but to become like the Lord is not at all possible.•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Are_not_also_the_evil_qualities_in_man_existent_in_God_too%3Fo Are not also the evil qualities in man existent in God too? - Vaniquoteswww.vaniquotes.orgMan: (indistinct) thinks if the qualities of God are contained in man but only on a minute scale, and in God all qualities are on a great scale...Share•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/I_believe_that_there%27s_God_in_everybody,_but_why_are_some_people_so_evil%3Fo I believe that there's God in everybody, but why are some people so evil? - Vaniquoteswww.vaniquotes.orgPrabhupāda: Yes. God is there. God says that "You don't do like that." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām... (BG 18.66). "You just surrender to Me." But he will not do that.Share•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_everything_is_created_by_God..._Then_what_is_this_evil%3Fo If everything is created by God... Then what is this evil? - Vaniquoteswww.vaniquotes.orgPrabhupāda: Just coming here from Philadelphia we were talking with the aeroplane crews, the captain, the pilot. They (were) very patiently hearing us. The question was very intelligent, question pilot made, that "If everything is created by God..." Yes. That is a fact. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1)...Share•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_man_be_part_and_parcel_of_God,_how_do_you_explain_the_evil_deeds_of_man%3Fo If man be part and parcel of God, how do you explain the evil deeds of man? - Vaniquoteswww.vaniquotes.orgPrabhupāda: Yes, independence. By misusing the independence, he can... Just like a child, a small child, and his father. The father gives the little child little independence. But the child is not as powerful as the father. But still, the father, out of affection, he gives little independence to the...Share•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Sometimes_people_ask_that_%22If_God_is_so_great,_then_why_doesn%27t_He_just_come_and_destroy_all_the_evil%3F%22o Sometimes people ask that "If God is so great, then why doesn't He just come and destroy all the...www.vaniquotes.orgExpressions researched:"If God is so great, then why doesn't He just come and destroy all the evil" |"Sometimes people ask that"Share•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o WE ARE NOT PUPPETS. GOD HAS GIVEN US MINUTE FREE WILL TO CHOOSE TO SURRENDER TO HIM OR NOT. IF WE DON'T SURRENDER, WE SHOULD TAKE THE RISK OF ALL GOOD AND BAD WE DO IN LIFE. EVEN THEN GOD MAINTAINS US AND SHOWS PATH THROUGH SCRIPTURES. HE IS OCEAN OF MERCY BUT NON-DEVOTEES ARE BLIND TO SEE IT. IT NEEDS LARGE AMOUNT OF PIETY TO UNDERSTAND GOD'S MERCY. JAI NITAI GAUARHARI•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/The_servant_always_remains_subordinate_to_the_master,_and_this_relationship_is_eternal_and_undisturbed._As_soon_as_the_servant_feels_like_becoming_the_master,_he_falls_into_maya._Thus_it_is_by_misuse_of_free_will_that_one_falls_under_the_influence_of_mayao The servant always remains subordinate to the master, and this relationship is eternal and...www.vaniquotes.orgExpressions researched:"servant always remains subordinate to the master, and this relationship is eternal and undisturbed. As soon as the servant feels like becoming the master, he falls into maya. Thus it is by misuse of free will that one falls under the influence of maya"Share•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Misuse_of_free_willo Misuse of free will - Vaniquoteswww.vaniquotes.orgExpressions researched:"misuse of free will" |"misuse of his free will" |"misuse your free will" |"misuses this God-given minute free will"Share•2 hours agoBill Kennedyo HK May I ask what justification one can have for believing that God created the world at all, let alone man, let alone for man to imitate God? Also, as regards the 8.4m life forms, to say that there are only that many species in the universe, or even the galaxy, is absurd. Also how can an absolute God have parts? Being a whole, there is no place for "parts". To say that God has parts is to say that God is divisible, which contradicts Gaudiya Monotheism. Thanks for your effort.•2 hours agoChaitanya Mahaprabhu- Who is He?o PLEASE READ FIRST CAREFULLY AND FAITHFULLY. DON'T BE EAGER TO REPLY. WE ARE NOT HUNGRY FOR COMMENTS, BUT SATISFACTION AND BLISS OF SOULS. HARI BOLo No. It is ACintya Bhedabheda tattva.o IT WILL TAKE TIME.o HE IS NOT DIVIDED. WE THINK THAT SHEET IS DIVIDED INTO MANY THEN HOW CAN ORGINAL SHEET BE LEFT? BUT IT IS OUR FALLIBLE LOGIC. GOD CAN DO IMPOSSIBLE THINGS. IT IS NOT EASY TO UNDERSTAND. AIT FOR SOME DAYS. I WOULD QUOTE FROM SCRIPTURES.Safety Reminder: Please be careful about sharing information with people you don't know. If you receive an inappropriate message, report the sender. Read more about internet safety.THANKS FOR PATIENTLY READING. PLEASE QUOTE FROM SCRIPTURES AND GIVE PROPER LOGIC TO SATISFY HIS ENQUIRY.
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Although I am all for learning from the scriptures and having devotees contribute with scriptural evidence, we have to keep in mind his perspective too. He is a philosophy student and he is only interested in the surface of KC. Quoting one or two verses is fine, but he is looking for a basic english response to his questions, not sanskrit with english translation.
In other words, I sort of get the feeling that you are preaching to them, which would be an incorrect approach, since he is not interested beyond the surface... it seems like he is writing an essay and needs help on it...
"I am a philosophy student in America who is currently focusing on the problem of evil in phl of religion"
Let him do the research, you should answer by vaguely citing sources. I managed to write an essay on the problem of evil using the Gita as my only option.
I have college in a few minutes so I won't state quotes right now but here were some key things I quoted from the Gita:
* The relationship between desire and the living entity
* The constitutional position of the living entity and the Supreme (jiva-atma is enjoyed, only Supreme enjoys)
* Result of materially enjoying senses leads to frustration of the living entity and they continuously change bodies in an effort to find enjoyment
* Karma
* Lust is basically the root of all evil in the world
-- Why have Lust even exist? because this is the function of the world and what we as living entities desired when we left Krsna in the spiritual realm/
=========================================
And I agree with Maral Mataji, a refinement of the OP would be a nice read to the eyes :-)
That is not a satisfactory answer. If God really cared about his creatures, God would at least provide fresh drinking water so that they do not have to suffer. Thanks for trying though
:D water is itself clean. It is we who make it dirty.
So where is the fault of God? He gives pure water as a rainfall and snow which are clean but because of air pollution, because smokes coming out of factories rain and snow becomes dirty. So what is the problem?
Question # 1 Posed by Bill Kennedy: I am a philosophy student in America who is currently focusing on the problem of evil in phl of religion and was wondering if you could answer one quick question: A) If Gaurasundara was Bhagavan, why didn't he feed all of the living creatures of the world? B) Why did he spent all of his time chanting and dancing instead of providing clean drinking water or electricity for the earth's inhabitants? Some people say that it makes no sense for God to come to earth and provide no material goods, most especially food and water, to his creatures. Wondering if there is a good explanation for this.
;( God is not our servant.
He is free and decides Himself what to do and what not to do.
In the Satya Yuga everywhere was clean. There was enough food without hard work. Enough water, air, good nature...but we ourselves disturbed things. So in the beginning God gave us everything. And destruction is our own fault.
So God gives Vedas - instructions of how to live correctly so if we start to live accordingly then He will help if no then why He should bother?
Hare Krishna Prabhu, I did not like the formatting at all since it was rather "out of place" and really distracted me with the time and the name of the FB account for each reply. Please accept this "cleaned up" version. :)
Question # 1 Posed by Bill Kennedy: I am a philosophy student in America who is currently focusing on the problem of evil in phl of religion and was wondering if you could answer one quick question: A) If Gaurasundara was Bhagavan, why didn't he feed all of the living creatures of the world? B) Why did he spent all of his time chanting and dancing instead of providing clean drinking water or electricity for the earth's inhabitants? Some people say that it makes no sense for God to come to earth and provide no material goods, most especially food and water, to his creatures. Wondering if there is a good explanation for this.
Answer # 1: Introduction to Vedic principles and values: Three types of people follow religious principles, rituals (there are more basis but this is based on level): 1. These people worship God to get material profit and mental profit. They want money, food, luxury, good life, mental peace, etc. They think this is the only reason to become theist. 2. These type of people worship Lord to get physical, mental and spiritual profit. They think material gain and spiritual gain both are going side by side. 3. But in reality we see many poor, uneducated, so-called unfortunate, etc people becoming theists or better say sometimes devotees. Pure Devotees worship God just to get his causeless devotion which is greatest spiritual gain to be gained. In Vedic system, there are four goals of life normally: dharma, atha, kama, moksha. Dharma means following scriptures(in this case) to learn rules and knowledge. Artha means economic development through legal means. Kama means sense gratification restricted by Vedic injuctions. Moksha means liberation from cycle of Birth and Death. According to Vaishnavism, there is fifth goal- Prema or Love of God and it is beyond 4 goals of life. It is obtained by mercy of devotees, spiritual practices and God’s mercy, etc. A & B Answer: Now, you said why Lord Gaurachandra [did not] gave people food and electricity? In Vedic religion people do not give priority to earning lot of money for luxury. They know that they are souls, not bodies and soul can be satisfied only by love of God. Therefore, Gaurachandra freely distributed love of God even to unqualified godless people at that time. Common reasoning is that God provides for even cats, dogs, trees, ant, elephants to every living beings, then why not to us? Also, In Vedas it is advised to adopt a proper means of livelihood just to maintain body for spiritual practices like chanting, dancing in devotion, reading scriptures, etc. SO, intelligent people do not hanker for artha or kama but moksha or even beyond- Bhakti which leads to Prema. Only it can satisfy the soul. Even amidst so many luxuries you can see that men is not satisfied and foolishly hankering for material happiness which is not satisfying at all. Also material existence in human body is temporary and miserable also. SO, Intelligent persons will try to develop love of God even from this life and earn enough money to maintain the body and may also preach this non-sectarian absolute philosophy of Krsna Consciousness to all. Infact, Bhakti or Devotion to God is our eternal duty. HE FEED THE SOULS ETERNALLY, NOT BODIES TEMPORARILY. HE ALSO FEEDS BODIES AS HE IS THE MASTER OF ALL- SUPREME LORD IN PARAMATMA FORM OR SUPERSOUL. =============================================================== Response by Bill Kennedy: That is not a satisfactory answer. If God really cared about his creatures, God would at least provide fresh drinking water so that they do not have to suffer. Thanks for trying though Response by Devotees: God cares about us. In scriptures which deal with falldown of jivas, it is written that we wanted to become God or imitate God, so God made this world for us to play god. Here evryone is trying to deny/ignore/underestimate God. ALthough God is all-pervasive , he is not perceivable to our senses so that we can forget and enjoy. But eventually one becomes frustrated and surrenders to Lord. Therefore Lord says Surrender unto me. Even though we envy him, he is maintaining us, this world is not his desire, we desired it. Our original home is spiritual world where there are no miseries but yes there is no separate enjoyment. We can enjoy only as servants, not superficial masters If there is God, how can there be suffering and disease... Expressions researched: "If there is God, how can there be suffering and disease" 1969 Correspondence The similar question may be asked, "In the presence of an affectionate father, why should a child suffer from diseases?" God is the Supreme Father and He gives us the process for being relieved of our sufferings. But if one refuses to accept this gift of God, then he must suffer from the results of his activities. Anyone who is suffering or enjoying in this material world is doing so as a result of his own activities. (Links: http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_there_is_God,_how_can_there_be_su... http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_there_is_God,_how_can_there_be_su...
o SB 4.29.26-27, Purport: These different types of bodies are explained in Bhagavad-gītā (13.22): puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu "The living entity in material nature follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil among various species. Because of associating with the modes of nature, the living entity gets a variety of bodies from the 8,400,000 forms. It is clearly explained herein that the living entity has a little independence, indicated by the word sva-dṛk, meaning "one who can see his own welfare."
The living entity's constitutional position is very minute, and he can be misled in his choice. He may choose to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A servant may desire to start his own business and imitate his master, and when he chooses to do so, he may leave the protection of his master. Sometimes he is a failure, and sometimes he is successful. Similarly, the living entity, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, starts his own business to compete with the Lord. There are many competitors out to attain the Lord's position, but to become like the Lord is not at all possible.
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Are_not_also_the_evil_qualities_in_m... Are not also the evil qualities in man existent in God too? - Vaniquotes Man: (indistinct) thinks if the qualities of God are contained in man but only on a minute scale, and in God all qualities are on a great scale...
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/I_believe_that_there%27s_God_in_ever... I believe that there's God in everybody, but why are some people so evil? - Vaniquotes Prabhupāda: Yes. God is there. God says that "You don't do like that." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām... (BG 18.66). "You just surrender to Me." But he will not do that.
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_everything_is_created_by_God..._T... If everything is created by God... Then what is this evil? - Vaniquotes Prabhupāda: Just coming here from Philadelphia we were talking with the aeroplane crews, the captain, the pilot. They (were) very patiently hearing us. The question was very intelligent, question pilot made, that "If everything is created by God..." Yes. That is a fact. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1)...
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_man_be_part_and_parcel_of_God,_ho... If man be part and parcel of God, how do you explain the evil deeds of man? - Vaniquotes Prabhupāda: Yes, independence. By misusing the independence, he can... Just like a child, a small child, and his father. The father gives the little child little independence. But the child is not as powerful as the father. But still, the father, out of affection, he gives little independence to the..
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Sometimes_people_ask_that_%22If_God_... Sometimes people ask that "If God is so great, then why doesn't He just come and destroy all the... Expressions researched:"If God is so great, then why doesn't He just come and destroy all the evil" |"Sometimes people ask that" WE ARE NOT PUPPETS. GOD HAS GIVEN US MINUTE FREE WILL TO CHOOSE TO SURRENDER TO HIM OR NOT. IF WE DON'T SURRENDER, WE SHOULD TAKE THE RISK OF ALL GOOD AND BAD WE DO IN LIFE. EVEN THEN GOD MAINTAINS US AND SHOWS PATH THROUGH SCRIPTURES. HE IS OCEAN OF MERCY BUT NON-DEVOTEES ARE BLIND TO SEE IT. IT NEEDS LARGE AMOUNT OF PIETY TO UNDERSTAND GOD'S MERCY. JAI NITAI GAUARHARI
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/The_servant_always_remains_subordina... The servant always remains subordinate to the master, and this relationship is eternal and... Expressions researched:"servant always remains subordinate to the master, and this relationship is eternal and undisturbed. As soon as the servant feels like becoming the master, he falls into maya. Thus it is by misuse of free will that one falls under the influence of maya"
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Misuse_of_free_will Misuse of free will - Vaniquotes Expressions researched:"misuse of free will" |"misuse of his free will" |"misuse your free will" |"misuses this God-given minute free will"
==================================== Response / Question by Bill Kennedy May I ask what justification one can have for believing that God created the world at all, let alone man, let alone for man to imitate God? Also, as regards the 8.4m life forms, to say that there are only that many species in the universe, or even the galaxy, is absurd. Also how can an absolute God have parts? Being a whole, there is no place for "parts". To say that God has parts is to say that God is divisible, which contradicts Gaudiya Monotheism. Thanks for your effort
Response by Devotees: o PLEASE READ FIRST CAREFULLY AND FAITHFULLY. DON'T BE EAGER TO REPLY. WE ARE NOT HUNGRY FOR COMMENTS, BUT SATISFACTION AND BLISS OF SOULS. HARI BOL o No. It is ACintya Bhedabheda tattva. o IT WILL TAKE TIME. o HE IS NOT DIVIDED. WE THINK THAT SHEET IS DIVIDED INTO MANY THEN HOW CAN ORGINAL SHEET BE LEFT? BUT IT IS OUR FALLIBLE LOGIC. GOD CAN DO IMPOSSIBLE THINGS. IT IS NOT EASY TO UNDERSTAND. AIT FOR SOME DAYS. I WOULD QUOTE FROM SCRIPTURES.
Why do we always assume that God is responsible for everything bad? I mean in a typical human life, if something good happens, "I" did it, and if something bad happen, we tend to shift the blame away from ourselves onto others. This is an example of an incorrect thought. We learn all through our lives to accept responsibility for our actions, whether good or bad, and similarly, we must also accept our own karma.
Now what is Karma?
In layman's terms karma can be defined as reaping that which we sow, or for every action there is a reaction. For example - pious deeds result in fruits, while negative deeds result in further suffering. This answers very well why there are rich people and why there are poor people. One's karma from the past and current life/lives takes the individual to it's next destination. And this is the way the material world is set up, everything works on the karma principle.
Okay, so if one understands the simple basics karma one then can easily realize that we are responsible for our karma, not God .. so why should God remove suffering if that is what is called for.
Yes, a person may question: why have suffering to begin with, why didn't God just keep suffering out in the first place.
There are multiple reason for that:
1) This material world is as stated - it's material, temporary, not permanent. Our home is in the spiritual realm. Many people criticize the idea of this perfect "fictitious" place because they are not able to understand it. But if we look in just this material world we see everything comes in opposite pairs:
Happy - Sad // Excited - Depressed // Male - Female // Permanent - Temporary // Bliss - Pain // Rich - Poor // Birth - Death // Young - Old // and many more. Thus one must conclude that if OVERALL this material place is a place of suffering, then the exact opposite, being the spiritual world, must be a place of bliss and eternal existence which it is as described in the Brahma Samhita, the Srimad Bhagavatam, etc.
2) We are not from this world to begin with. We are all parts and parcels of Krsna. Prabhupada compared us - living entities - to drops of water of the ocean. The ocean remains the ocean, whether a drop or many drops are taken out. Even if one takes 100s of gallons of ocean water out of the ocean, the ocean still remains the ocean - just as vast, just as deep, and just as original. The salt concentration of the ocean is the exact same too. Further, it is stated that the soul is a very tiny fragment of God (smaller than the width of one's hair, and smaller than an atom). In the average human body (say 70 kg human) there are about 7*1027 atoms (not weight, ATOMS). That's a lot of atoms. Now if the spirit soul, a fragment of God is smaller in size than one atom, it's not gonna make a huge difference to someone who is infinite and limitless (like the ocean), in fact it wouldn't even make a minor difference. It's like asking for a penny from a billionaire. It isn't going to ruin the billionaire, s/he probably wouldn't even care about the penny.
We all belong and we all came from the spiritual world but because of our desire to enjoy ourselves, we come into the material world to enjoy. But we get trapped in trying to seek more enjoyment of the self. So God out of His kindness sends messengers - Christ, Moses, etc. are but a few examples. IN fact, he himself as Gaurasundar came 500 years ago to deliver people with the Hare Krsna mahamantra.
My final response to this question is another question:
God has provided so many free facilities for one to use, why do we keep insisting for more and more. There is no limit to our desires, thus if God provides, provides, provides, we never learn a lesson, we become spoiled.
To answer the second question:
He chanted and danced for the soul (this was of course already explained by Shubham). The soul also needs food and water, and it's food is the Mahamantra. Just as a plant takes water and converts sunlight into glucose for it's meal, and just as we eat and digest food to satisfy our body, similarly the soul also requires food and attention. We get carried away thinking "I am this body" and thus we pay no attention to the soul. In reality, one must focus on preserving and taking care of both the soul and the body (the soul for spiritual advancement, and the body to make sure spiritual advancement is possible, because in retrospect this body is given for spiritual advancement and fulfilling our karmas).
Q: If God really cared about his creatures, God would at least provide fresh drinking water so that they do not have to suffer.
I have already answered this question above. But to reiterate, why do we require God to take care of things that we mess up. God has provided us with fresh drinking water, but modern day technology and the industrial revolution has screwed things up big time. If God did not provide us with fresh drinking water, how can one expect that these various creatures have survived for a long time.
It's like picking up after a child's mess. The child never learns, and the parent does all the hard work again and again. There is no disciple nor is there a sign to the child that what they are doing is wrong. It's only through discipline and that sign that the child will pick up their mess.
Even further, God gives us intelligence from within the heart, so he never abandons us ever. He is always with us and always watching us. He helps us of course, but he never steps in between the individual and his/her karma (unless it's a pure devotee's karma, which he does out of his causeless mercy -this may seem unfair but if a child constantly cries for the parent's attention, the parent is not going to let it suffer...)
Q:May I ask what justification one can have for believing that God created the world at all, let alone man, let alone for man to imitate God. how can an absolute God have parts? Being a whole, there is no place for "parts"
The second part was answered by me above, and Shubam touches in his OP.
The first part - there is no justification except what our scriptures tell us. It's faith. Many modern day thinkers believe that there is no God, this world happened by chance, and this and that. But going back to the basics - life comes from life. I came from life, my parents came from life, my grandparents came from life. That little ant came from life. So if life comes from life, there surely must be an original life from which everything and everyone comes from. We can believe in chance, but surely that sounds rather ridiculous. Explosion in space results in planets and solar systems, etc. Then out of 8 planets close to a bright star whom we call the sun, our earth is the only one that is perfect to support life, and from single celled prokaryotes came eukaryotes and from them different organisms and animals and this and that and then humans etc.
It's like a continuous streak of good luck. Anything could have gone wrong, but it all worked out. If that makes sense to you, haribol, but that doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense that for something to be this perfect again and again means that there is someone behind this. A building is not built on it's own. We don't throw in all the materials, mix up and hope for the best. IF we do that, we get nothing. An architect has to design and then s/he builds it. You can't get something from nothing, that's impossible. One can manipulate something to get something different, but never something from nothing... (if this all makes sense)...
The end line is - the Vedas have stated many factual things that is only recently being proven. Even if one believes the Aryan Invasion nonsense, that's still 5000 years before modern technology that the birth of the universe / earth was stated in the Vedas. The Vedas also describe the entire cosmology - one thing is that there are multiple universes floating around. Only recently are physicists testing out the bubble theory (which is quite interesting and a lot of wrap one's head around).. there are countless examples of the facts stated in the Vedas, thus it is only reasonable to state that whatever the Vedas state holds validity, and this includes God.
Hopefully I have answered these questions in as little bias as possible. I apologize for not citing scriptures for most if not all sentences, but I felt that the questioner wasn't very interested in the texts as much as the analysis behind them. But that's just my two cents.
Hare Krsna dear devotees. Please forgive any incorrect statements, I have much to learn and realize.
Replies
HARI BOL
NITYANANDA GAURANGA
JAI SRILA PRABHUPADA!
THANKS TO RADHE PRABHU JI AND BHAKTIN MARAL MATA JI!
I WANT MORE COMMENTS. PLEASE KEEP ANSWERING.
BY MERCY OF LORD'S DEVOTEES, ACHARYAS AND SCRIPTURES, I HAVE FOUND SOME POINTS FROM SCRIPTURES:
Purnam.docx
Although I am all for learning from the scriptures and having devotees contribute with scriptural evidence, we have to keep in mind his perspective too. He is a philosophy student and he is only interested in the surface of KC. Quoting one or two verses is fine, but he is looking for a basic english response to his questions, not sanskrit with english translation.
In other words, I sort of get the feeling that you are preaching to them, which would be an incorrect approach, since he is not interested beyond the surface... it seems like he is writing an essay and needs help on it...
"I am a philosophy student in America who is currently focusing on the problem of evil in phl of religion"
Let him do the research, you should answer by vaguely citing sources. I managed to write an essay on the problem of evil using the Gita as my only option.
I have college in a few minutes so I won't state quotes right now but here were some key things I quoted from the Gita:
* The relationship between desire and the living entity
* The constitutional position of the living entity and the Supreme (jiva-atma is enjoyed, only Supreme enjoys)
* Result of materially enjoying senses leads to frustration of the living entity and they continuously change bodies in an effort to find enjoyment
* Karma
* Lust is basically the root of all evil in the world
-- Why have Lust even exist? because this is the function of the world and what we as living entities desired when we left Krsna in the spiritual realm/
=========================================
And I agree with Maral Mataji, a refinement of the OP would be a nice read to the eyes :-)
Prabhuji, could You please paste questions nicely, Radhe Prabhu did it but still it would be very nice if questions are clear!
Thank You!
Your servant,
:D water is itself clean. It is we who make it dirty.
So where is the fault of God? He gives pure water as a rainfall and snow which are clean but because of air pollution, because smokes coming out of factories rain and snow becomes dirty. So what is the problem?
;( God is not our servant.
He is free and decides Himself what to do and what not to do.
In the Satya Yuga everywhere was clean. There was enough food without hard work. Enough water, air, good nature...but we ourselves disturbed things. So in the beginning God gave us everything. And destruction is our own fault.
So God gives Vedas - instructions of how to live correctly so if we start to live accordingly then He will help if no then why He should bother?
;(
Hare Krishna Prabhu, I did not like the formatting at all since it was rather "out of place" and really distracted me with the time and the name of the FB account for each reply. Please accept this "cleaned up" version. :)
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Question # 1 Posed by Bill Kennedy:
I am a philosophy student in America who is currently focusing on the problem of evil in phl of religion and was wondering if you could answer one quick question:
A) If Gaurasundara was Bhagavan, why didn't he feed all of the living creatures of the world?
B) Why did he spent all of his time chanting and dancing instead of providing clean drinking water or electricity for the earth's inhabitants?
Some people say that it makes no sense for God to come to earth and provide no material goods, most especially food and water, to his creatures. Wondering if there is a good explanation for this.
Answer # 1:
Introduction to Vedic principles and values:
Three types of people follow religious principles, rituals (there are more basis but this is based on level):
1. These people worship God to get material profit and mental profit. They want money, food, luxury, good life, mental peace, etc. They think this is the only reason to become theist.
2. These type of people worship Lord to get physical, mental and spiritual profit. They think material gain and spiritual gain both are going side by side.
3. But in reality we see many poor, uneducated, so-called unfortunate, etc people becoming theists or better say sometimes devotees. Pure Devotees worship God just to get his causeless devotion which is greatest spiritual gain to be gained.
In Vedic system, there are four goals of life normally: dharma, atha, kama, moksha.
Dharma means following scriptures(in this case) to learn rules and knowledge.
Artha means economic development through legal means.
Kama means sense gratification restricted by Vedic injuctions.
Moksha means liberation from cycle of Birth and Death.
According to Vaishnavism, there is fifth goal- Prema or Love of God and it is beyond 4 goals of life. It is obtained by mercy of devotees, spiritual practices and God’s mercy, etc.
A & B Answer:
Now, you said why Lord Gaurachandra [did not] gave people food and electricity?
In Vedic religion people do not give priority to earning lot of money for luxury.
They know that they are souls, not bodies and soul can be satisfied only by love of God. Therefore, Gaurachandra freely distributed love of God even to unqualified godless people at that time.
Common reasoning is that God provides for even cats, dogs, trees, ant, elephants to every living beings, then why not to us? Also, In Vedas it is advised to adopt a proper means of livelihood just to maintain body for spiritual practices like chanting, dancing in devotion, reading scriptures, etc.
SO, intelligent people do not hanker for artha or kama but moksha or even beyond- Bhakti which leads to Prema. Only it can satisfy the soul. Even amidst so many luxuries you can see that men is not satisfied and foolishly hankering for material happiness which is not satisfying at all. Also material existence in human body is temporary and miserable also. SO, Intelligent persons will try to develop love of God even from this life and earn enough money to maintain the body and may also preach this non-sectarian absolute philosophy of Krsna Consciousness to all. Infact, Bhakti or Devotion to God is our eternal duty.
HE FEED THE SOULS ETERNALLY, NOT BODIES TEMPORARILY. HE ALSO FEEDS BODIES AS HE IS THE MASTER OF ALL- SUPREME LORD IN PARAMATMA FORM OR SUPERSOUL.
===============================================================
Response by Bill Kennedy:
That is not a satisfactory answer. If God really cared about his creatures, God would at least provide fresh drinking water so that they do not have to suffer. Thanks for trying though
Response by Devotees:
God cares about us. In scriptures which deal with falldown of jivas, it is written that we wanted to become God or imitate God, so God made this world for us to play god. Here evryone is trying to deny/ignore/underestimate God. ALthough God is all-pervasive , he is not perceivable to our senses so that we can forget and enjoy. But eventually one becomes frustrated and surrenders to Lord. Therefore Lord says Surrender unto me.
Even though we envy him, he is maintaining us, this world is not his desire, we desired it. Our original home is spiritual world where there are no miseries but yes there is no separate enjoyment. We can enjoy only as servants, not superficial masters
If there is God, how can there be suffering and disease...
Expressions researched:
"If there is God, how can there be suffering and disease"
1969 Correspondence
The similar question may be asked, "In the presence of an affectionate father, why should a child suffer from diseases?" God is the Supreme Father and He gives us the process for being relieved of our sufferings. But if one refuses to accept this gift of God, then he must suffer from the results of his activities. Anyone who is suffering or enjoying in this material world is doing so as a result of his own activities.
(Links: http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_there_is_God,_how_can_there_be_su...
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_there_is_God,_how_can_there_be_su...
o SB 4.29.26-27, Purport:
These different types of bodies are explained in Bhagavad-gītā (13.22):
puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi
bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
sad-asad-yoni-janmasu
"The living entity in material nature follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil among various species.
Because of associating with the modes of nature, the living entity gets a variety of bodies from the 8,400,000 forms. It is clearly explained herein that the living entity has a little independence, indicated by the word sva-dṛk, meaning "one who can see his own welfare."
The living entity's constitutional position is very minute, and he can be misled in his choice. He may choose to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A servant may desire to start his own business and imitate his master, and when he chooses to do so, he may leave the protection of his master. Sometimes he is a failure, and sometimes he is successful. Similarly, the living entity, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, starts his own business to compete with the Lord. There are many competitors out to attain the Lord's position, but to become like the Lord is not at all possible.
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Are_not_also_the_evil_qualities_in_m...
Are not also the evil qualities in man existent in God too? - Vaniquotes
Man: (indistinct) thinks if the qualities of God are contained in man but only on a minute scale, and in God all qualities are on a great scale...
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/I_believe_that_there%27s_God_in_ever...
I believe that there's God in everybody, but why are some people so evil? - Vaniquotes
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is there. God says that "You don't do like that." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām... (BG 18.66). "You just surrender to Me." But he will not do that.
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_everything_is_created_by_God..._T...
If everything is created by God... Then what is this evil? - Vaniquotes
Prabhupāda: Just coming here from Philadelphia we were talking with the aeroplane crews, the captain, the pilot. They (were) very patiently hearing us. The question was very intelligent, question pilot made, that "If everything is created by God..." Yes. That is a fact. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1)...
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/If_man_be_part_and_parcel_of_God,_ho...
If man be part and parcel of God, how do you explain the evil deeds of man? - Vaniquotes
Prabhupāda: Yes, independence. By misusing the independence, he can... Just like a child, a small child, and his father. The father gives the little child little independence. But the child is not as powerful as the father. But still, the father, out of affection, he gives little independence to the..
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Sometimes_people_ask_that_%22If_God_...
Sometimes people ask that "If God is so great, then why doesn't He just come and destroy all the...
Expressions researched:"If God is so great, then why doesn't He just come and destroy all the evil" |"Sometimes people ask that"
WE ARE NOT PUPPETS. GOD HAS GIVEN US MINUTE FREE WILL TO CHOOSE TO SURRENDER TO HIM OR NOT. IF WE DON'T SURRENDER, WE SHOULD TAKE THE RISK OF ALL GOOD AND BAD WE DO IN LIFE. EVEN THEN GOD MAINTAINS US AND SHOWS PATH THROUGH SCRIPTURES. HE IS OCEAN OF MERCY BUT NON-DEVOTEES ARE BLIND TO SEE IT. IT NEEDS LARGE AMOUNT OF PIETY TO UNDERSTAND GOD'S MERCY. JAI NITAI GAUARHARI
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/The_servant_always_remains_subordina...
The servant always remains subordinate to the master, and this relationship is eternal and...
Expressions researched:"servant always remains subordinate to the master, and this relationship is eternal and undisturbed. As soon as the servant feels like becoming the master, he falls into maya. Thus it is by misuse of free will that one falls under the influence of maya"
http://www.vaniquotes.org/wiki/Misuse_of_free_will
Misuse of free will - Vaniquotes
Expressions researched:"misuse of free will" |"misuse of his free will" |"misuse your free will" |"misuses this God-given minute free will"
====================================
Response / Question by Bill Kennedy
May I ask what justification one can have for believing that God created the world at all, let alone man, let alone for man to imitate God? Also, as regards the 8.4m life forms, to say that there are only that many species in the universe, or even the galaxy, is absurd. Also how can an absolute God have parts? Being a whole, there is no place for "parts". To say that God has parts is to say that God is divisible, which contradicts Gaudiya Monotheism. Thanks for your effort
Response by Devotees:
o PLEASE READ FIRST CAREFULLY AND FAITHFULLY. DON'T BE EAGER TO REPLY. WE ARE NOT HUNGRY FOR COMMENTS, BUT SATISFACTION AND BLISS OF SOULS. HARI BOL
o No. It is ACintya Bhedabheda tattva.
o IT WILL TAKE TIME.
o HE IS NOT DIVIDED. WE THINK THAT SHEET IS DIVIDED INTO MANY THEN HOW CAN ORGINAL SHEET BE LEFT? BUT IT IS OUR FALLIBLE LOGIC. GOD CAN DO IMPOSSIBLE THINGS. IT IS NOT EASY TO UNDERSTAND. AIT FOR SOME DAYS. I WOULD QUOTE FROM SCRIPTURES.
My response:
Why do we always assume that God is responsible for everything bad? I mean in a typical human life, if something good happens, "I" did it, and if something bad happen, we tend to shift the blame away from ourselves onto others. This is an example of an incorrect thought. We learn all through our lives to accept responsibility for our actions, whether good or bad, and similarly, we must also accept our own karma.
Now what is Karma?
In layman's terms karma can be defined as reaping that which we sow, or for every action there is a reaction. For example - pious deeds result in fruits, while negative deeds result in further suffering. This answers very well why there are rich people and why there are poor people. One's karma from the past and current life/lives takes the individual to it's next destination. And this is the way the material world is set up, everything works on the karma principle.
Okay, so if one understands the simple basics karma one then can easily realize that we are responsible for our karma, not God .. so why should God remove suffering if that is what is called for.
Yes, a person may question: why have suffering to begin with, why didn't God just keep suffering out in the first place.
There are multiple reason for that:
1) This material world is as stated - it's material, temporary, not permanent. Our home is in the spiritual realm. Many people criticize the idea of this perfect "fictitious" place because they are not able to understand it. But if we look in just this material world we see everything comes in opposite pairs:
Happy - Sad // Excited - Depressed // Male - Female // Permanent - Temporary // Bliss - Pain // Rich - Poor // Birth - Death // Young - Old // and many more. Thus one must conclude that if OVERALL this material place is a place of suffering, then the exact opposite, being the spiritual world, must be a place of bliss and eternal existence which it is as described in the Brahma Samhita, the Srimad Bhagavatam, etc.
2) We are not from this world to begin with. We are all parts and parcels of Krsna. Prabhupada compared us - living entities - to drops of water of the ocean. The ocean remains the ocean, whether a drop or many drops are taken out. Even if one takes 100s of gallons of ocean water out of the ocean, the ocean still remains the ocean - just as vast, just as deep, and just as original. The salt concentration of the ocean is the exact same too. Further, it is stated that the soul is a very tiny fragment of God (smaller than the width of one's hair, and smaller than an atom). In the average human body (say 70 kg human) there are about 7*1027 atoms (not weight, ATOMS). That's a lot of atoms. Now if the spirit soul, a fragment of God is smaller in size than one atom, it's not gonna make a huge difference to someone who is infinite and limitless (like the ocean), in fact it wouldn't even make a minor difference. It's like asking for a penny from a billionaire. It isn't going to ruin the billionaire, s/he probably wouldn't even care about the penny.
We all belong and we all came from the spiritual world but because of our desire to enjoy ourselves, we come into the material world to enjoy. But we get trapped in trying to seek more enjoyment of the self. So God out of His kindness sends messengers - Christ, Moses, etc. are but a few examples. IN fact, he himself as Gaurasundar came 500 years ago to deliver people with the Hare Krsna mahamantra.
My final response to this question is another question:
God has provided so many free facilities for one to use, why do we keep insisting for more and more. There is no limit to our desires, thus if God provides, provides, provides, we never learn a lesson, we become spoiled.
To answer the second question:
He chanted and danced for the soul (this was of course already explained by Shubham). The soul also needs food and water, and it's food is the Mahamantra. Just as a plant takes water and converts sunlight into glucose for it's meal, and just as we eat and digest food to satisfy our body, similarly the soul also requires food and attention. We get carried away thinking "I am this body" and thus we pay no attention to the soul. In reality, one must focus on preserving and taking care of both the soul and the body (the soul for spiritual advancement, and the body to make sure spiritual advancement is possible, because in retrospect this body is given for spiritual advancement and fulfilling our karmas).
===============================================================
Q: If God really cared about his creatures, God would at least provide fresh drinking water so that they do not have to suffer.
I have already answered this question above. But to reiterate, why do we require God to take care of things that we mess up. God has provided us with fresh drinking water, but modern day technology and the industrial revolution has screwed things up big time. If God did not provide us with fresh drinking water, how can one expect that these various creatures have survived for a long time.
It's like picking up after a child's mess. The child never learns, and the parent does all the hard work again and again. There is no disciple nor is there a sign to the child that what they are doing is wrong. It's only through discipline and that sign that the child will pick up their mess.
Even further, God gives us intelligence from within the heart, so he never abandons us ever. He is always with us and always watching us. He helps us of course, but he never steps in between the individual and his/her karma (unless it's a pure devotee's karma, which he does out of his causeless mercy -this may seem unfair but if a child constantly cries for the parent's attention, the parent is not going to let it suffer...)
Q:May I ask what justification one can have for believing that God created the world at all, let alone man, let alone for man to imitate God. how can an absolute God have parts? Being a whole, there is no place for "parts"
The second part was answered by me above, and Shubam touches in his OP.
The first part - there is no justification except what our scriptures tell us. It's faith. Many modern day thinkers believe that there is no God, this world happened by chance, and this and that. But going back to the basics - life comes from life. I came from life, my parents came from life, my grandparents came from life. That little ant came from life. So if life comes from life, there surely must be an original life from which everything and everyone comes from. We can believe in chance, but surely that sounds rather ridiculous. Explosion in space results in planets and solar systems, etc. Then out of 8 planets close to a bright star whom we call the sun, our earth is the only one that is perfect to support life, and from single celled prokaryotes came eukaryotes and from them different organisms and animals and this and that and then humans etc.
It's like a continuous streak of good luck. Anything could have gone wrong, but it all worked out. If that makes sense to you, haribol, but that doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense that for something to be this perfect again and again means that there is someone behind this. A building is not built on it's own. We don't throw in all the materials, mix up and hope for the best. IF we do that, we get nothing. An architect has to design and then s/he builds it. You can't get something from nothing, that's impossible. One can manipulate something to get something different, but never something from nothing... (if this all makes sense)...
The end line is - the Vedas have stated many factual things that is only recently being proven. Even if one believes the Aryan Invasion nonsense, that's still 5000 years before modern technology that the birth of the universe / earth was stated in the Vedas. The Vedas also describe the entire cosmology - one thing is that there are multiple universes floating around. Only recently are physicists testing out the bubble theory (which is quite interesting and a lot of wrap one's head around).. there are countless examples of the facts stated in the Vedas, thus it is only reasonable to state that whatever the Vedas state holds validity, and this includes God.
Hopefully I have answered these questions in as little bias as possible. I apologize for not citing scriptures for most if not all sentences, but I felt that the questioner wasn't very interested in the texts as much as the analysis behind them. But that's just my two cents.
Hare Krsna dear devotees. Please forgive any incorrect statements, I have much to learn and realize.
YS