Isn't Gita verse 4 / 24 - ' brahmArpaNa.n ...samAdhinA' - indicate BhagavAn's all encompassingness ? That there is nothing else except BhagavAn and BhagavAn only.
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Hare Krishna! Dandavat Pranam!
Vishishtadvaitam - Jiva (Chit) and Prakruti (Achit) are the body of 'Easwara' (Lord Sri Krishna).
Bg 13.20 — Material nature and the living entities should be understood to be beginningless. Their transformations and the modes of matter are products of material nature.
Bg 15.7 — The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.
Acintya beda-abeda - The lord is both the paramathma and Jivaathma 'at the same time'. It is difficult to understand hence it is termed as 'acintya' - inconceivable.
Bg 13.23 — Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul.
Sarvam Krishnaarpanam!
PRaNAm Adiyen pRabhu Ji,
Hare Krishna,
Very true - 'vedAnta' doesn't entertain the question - when did these - jiiva and jagat start etc. It talks about the present 'shRuShTi' and ways to attain liberation. 'jagat' and jIva' are anAdi, beginningless.
One doubt Adiyen PRabhu Ji - as you rightly said - BhagavAn is 'paramAtma' and 'jIvAtma' 'at the same time', it is the 'ignorance' of that unity that is the cause of all my problems aka 'samsAra' ? So by gaining that knowledge of my already 'liberated' status I 'unbound' - a figurative act - from my 'seemingly bounded' state?
saRvam kesavam pratigacchati
Hare Krishna! Dandavat Pranam!
Dear Prabhu - Sorry, Adiyen is the tamil word for 'servant' :-). Adiyen is not qualified to speak beyond this point since that question is debated over thousand years by different vedanta philosophers. Understanding of the basics of philosophy helps pursue Bakti yoga but a humble request to not dwell deep into the philosophy, since at times, it becomes a hindrance for Bakti yoga (from Adiyen's personal experience). Overall, there is 'duality' - Jivaatma & Paramaatma in both vishishtadvaitam and dvaitam. Acintya beda-abeda is a slightly different flavor of vishishtadvaitam itself.
Please refer related blog - http://www.iskcondesiretree.com/profiles/blogs/beyond-philosophy
Sarvam Krishnaarpanam!
HARE KRISHNA
I appreciate your stand, PRabhu Ji. In fact that is the greatness of 'sanAtana dhaRma'. It welcomes every stand including the avaidikas - like Buddhism, Jainism and also the CharvAka. But just a final thought - what could be purpose of the scriptures especially BhagavAn's own condensation in the form of Bhagavad Gita? Aren't those to be studied to firm and strengthen the 'bhakthi' into such a rigour that it will not be snuffed out in a sneeze? Like the flimsy , just 'belief' based 'Abrahmaic religions' which doesn't stand scrutiny even for a second? Not only that those are nothing but sermonising and intolerant to questions and divergent views. And didn't the Lord want Arjuna and we, 'PRabhU's devotees, to 'vimR^ishyaitadasheSheNa' (BG 18 / 63) before we take the next step ?
Hope you wouldn't mind.
SreekrishnaRpaNamastu
Hare Krishna! Dandavat Pranam!
Dear Prabhu - Once again, Adiyen is not qualified to speak yet will share Adiyen's experience with some opinions. Scriptures are definitely to be read, assimilated especially for devotees who are inclined towards 'Gnana maargam' for it creates 'initial' interest and drive towards 'Bakti maargam'. But when the focus is lost on 'Bakti' and when the mind gets 'dragged' more into 'Gnana maargam', it takes us in different paths. Personally, Adiyen got dragged into Upanishads and slightly burnt fingers in that pursuit. Then there is realization that, 'Gnana maargam' also requires 'extreme austerities' / purity inside as otherwise, the mind will only 'misuse' the knowledge gained. [This is something that Srila Prabhupada has explained in one of the chapters under 'Gnana maargam'].
Keeping this aside, Adiyen opinion on the Q - lord offered the scriptures (Bhagavad Gita/Srimad Bhagavatam) knowing that the spiritual pursuit is not going to be 'pure' Bakti in kali yug, but will be mixed up with 'karma' / 'gnana' yogas. [This Bakti is termed as something by ISKCON that Adiyen does not recollect] As we know, there is no varnasrama in kali-yug where one section of people 'know' how to 'formally' approach 'Bakti', so it is mixed up with other yogas. So we need to take 'pure' devotee's association to stay (at least) in the 'mixed up' 'Bakti' radar [if not 'pure' Bakti] as otherwise, there are chances for distraction.
Sarvam Krishnaarpanam.
Very true Adiyen PRabhu Ji. But in BG 4/34 BhagavAn doesn't say that learning the scriptures aka jnAnam is not the way in Kali yuga. For that matter HE doesn't mention any specific time. So conclusions on 'Bhakthi Yoga' for Kali Yuga is confusing.
Hare Krishna! Dandavat Pranam!
Dear Prabhu - Bakti yoga, is surrendering to the lord even for attaining the lord. So here both the path and destiny are the lord himself.
All the questions & answers are in Bhagavad Gita Prabhu but we generally pick what best suits us (like the tag - what you see is what you get). If Prabhu feels, Gnana yoga suits Prabhu, please continue till Prabhu feels otherwise. Learned scholars / realized souls confirm that 'Gnana' will finally take the shape of 'Bakti' (a.k.a love for God).
Sarvam Krishnaarpanam!
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
The verse mentioned by you speaks of the absolute consummation of of one who is fully absorbed in Krsna consciousness. All the activities of such a person are offerings to the Supreme Lord.
It means that for the devotee engaged in 100% Krsna consciousness, even mundane activities are converted into an offering to the lord.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Excellent, Radha PrabhuJi. A very clear and precise explanantion of - 'iswarARpaNA buddhi' and 'Iswara pRasAda buddhi aka 'kaRma yoga'.
A doubt, pRabhuji - doesn't the verse indicate an offering of himSELF also?
Thanks a million.
Hare Krishna
Yes, how can a person be in full Krsna consciousness without surrender. THe more one surrenders, the more the lord takes over. Ye yatha maam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamyaham.
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