Offenses to devotees and Krishna's mercy

Hello, and PAMHO.I have a question about the Lord's mercy. But before I ask, I will provide some background information (these are just the quotes I will be using as references).The following are quoted from an article written by Tarun Govinda Das:'The Lord  said,  "If  I hear  the Holy  Name coming from  the lips  of any  person at all,  I consider him to be worshipable, for he is far better than the rest of the people. Whoever utters the Holy Name even once is to be considered a Vaishnava and I offer him the greatest respect.”424From this statement of  the Lord, it is evident that any person, whoever he may be, if he says the Lord’s name even once, is worshipable and the best among men.  This shows the glory of the Holy Name and devotional practice more than anything else.''In the Caitanya-bhagavata, Vrindavana Dasa writes,If someone does not worship the devotee but approaches the Lord with obeisances, the Lord does not forgive his offences. The Lord will deliver everyone except the rascal who blasphemes the devotees. 84,000 gods of death wait to punish the blasphemer again and again. The Lord says, “If someone speaks ill of my devotees, even if they chant my name that is like a desire-tree, that Name will be the cause of his demise.”425''Anyone, whether male,  female, boy or girl, brahmana  or  any  other caste  or nationality, immediately rises above the material qualities when he engages in the service of the Lord. For this reason, all devotees should be  treated  with the greatest affection and reverence; not  doing  so  will  result  in  hellish  existence,  even  if  one  performs  one’s  devotional activities most perfectly. This is the conclusion of the devotional scriptures.''"An  offence  at  the  lotus  feet  of  the  Lord  can  be  counteracted by chanting his Holy Names, but an offence at the feet of the devotee has no remedy.”416 Krishnadasa Kaviraja  also says, “If the mad elephant offence  to the Vaishnavas should chance into your garden, then your carefully nurtured seedling of devotion will be uprooted and all its leaves torn to shreds.”417''Jiva Gosvamin says in his comments on the verse etan nirvidya-mananam (BhP 2.1.11) in which the Holy Name is glorified as the best process of spiritual realization that even a great devotee[,] if he commits offences to the Holy Name[,] can be relegated to a hellish existence.'The following quote is from the Bhagavad Gita translated by Srila Prabhupada:'The Blessed Lord said: Son of Prtha, a transcendentalist engaged in auspicious activities does not meet with destruction either in this world or in the spiritual world; one who does good, My friend, is never overcome by evil.'-Bhag. Gita, 6.40Now, for my question:The quotes I provided, to my very limited understanding, seem to contradict the teachings of the Gita.On the one hand, the Lord says that progress toward Him is never lost, that even one utterance of the holy Name elevates one to the status of Vaisnava, and that such a transcendentalist "does not meet with destruction."Then on the other hand it is said that if a person, even a "great devotee," blasphemes against another devotee, the holy Name will instead bring about his "demise" and that person will suffer a "hellish existence" at the mercy of "84,000 gods of death," his "carefully nurtured seedling of devotion [...] uprooted and all its leaves torn to shreds;" and he will have no hope in continuing to chant as their is "no remedy" for such an offense.Personally, when I read this, it disturbed me and I prayed to Krishna, "Krishna, if I am ever your devotee, and someone speaks ill of me, I do not want you to punish them for it." I especially don't want any devotee to fall hopelessly from their path into despair, just because of an "offense" unto me, whether accidental or not.I feel like, letting things go, being a forgiving spirit is one of the first and most important steps to becoming a mature spiritual person. That my sweet Krishna would be so merciless shocks me, and I don't believe it.Since criticising is considered an offense, it's like I don't want to talk to or be near anyone lest Krishna doom them to hell for being critical of me. My own family is apparently doomed to hellish life because they have criticized me before, even though I have prayed for them; it is no use since there is "no remedy."Surely I have committed some horrible offense to one of you, or some other devotee, at some time in my life. Surely I must be doomed as well.It is as if we should say "chant and be happy, unless you have something critical to say to us, in which case go to hell." It is a crude thing to say and not much in the devotee spirit, I should think. But is it true?I don't believe it. I must have some misunderstanding. I thought that the reason we suffer in the material world was because of our own karma, and our selfish desires for fruitive results - not eternal damnation caused by one ignorant action.Are souls ever eternally damned? Is it true there is no remedy for offenses to devotees? I cannot bear the thought of never being able to serve Krishna just because, accidentally a thought entered my head, or I said something I shouldn't have.Please accept my humble respects. I appreciate you taking the time to read my question. Jai Krishna.JakeSources: Gita As It Is by Srila Prabhupada

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  • Those who expect respect  from others, because doing some devotional service to Lord, can not be considered to be spiritually advanced.

    Those who treat others with hellish life, just because didnt give respect, considered to be still on material body level, with no mercy to others. Despite all that, less intelligent humans accept such neophytes as highly spiritually advanced.



  • Jaya Nitai!! The Lord is very protective of His devotees, that is why He does not tolerate offences against the Vaishnavs, who are more dear to Him then His own life and soul. That is why, Vaishnav Aparadha is compared to the Mad Elephant which completely uproots the creeper of Bhakti. The Vaishnavs may forgive offences (actually a true Vaishnav will never consider offences, but Lord Krsna in our heart as the Paramatma takes note of very offense we commit against a Vaishnav). This mood of the Lord should not be taken as cruel, but rather the extreme Love He has for His devotees.

    There is a pastime in Bhakti Ratnakar, where Srila Rupa Goswami was mediating on the Divine Pastimes of Radha Krsna and was laughing in joy. At that moment a lame Vaishnav was walking past, and he saw Rupa Goswami laughing. The lame Vaishnav thought that Rupa Goswami was laughing at his disability, so he became very sad, and when to Sanatana Goswami. At that moment, when the Vaishnav left, Srila Rupa Goswami's vision of the Lord's Pastime was lost, due to the Vaishnav Aparadha which He has committed unintentionally. Rupa Goswami immediatly knew the reason why, so He went to Sanatana Goswami. There He met the lame Vaishnav and they both begged forgiveness at each other's feet.

    So you see, that Vaishnav Aparadha can even affect such an exalted Acharya like Rupa Goswami, who is Rupa Manjari, the internal and confidential associate of Radha Rani. Of course, this pastime was arranged by the Lord Himself to show how every Vaishnav is so dear to Him. That is why, we should never with our mouth criticize any Vaishnav. Even the Lord's (Lord Gaura's) mother, Saci Devi had to beg forgiveness from Adwaita Acharya due to Her Vaishnav Aparadha against Him.

    You see, generally when we commit offences against the Supreme Lord Himself, then Krsna Nama will deliver us of these offences (after a very long time). Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu and His Name are more Merciful and will forgive all offences except two (Criticizing a Vaishnav and Committing Sins on the Strength of the Holy Name). The Lord's Name is so merciful, and the reason why we are not seeing the form, qualities and pastimes of the Lord in our Bhajana is due to the Vaishnav Aparadhas that we have committed in this or other lives. There are really only three ways to be forgiven for Vaishnav Aparadha:

     1) To beg forgiveness from the Vaishnav you have offended:

    ye vaisnava-sthane aparadha haya yara
    puna se ksamile a paradha ghuce tara

    If one offends a Vaisnava, the only way to get free from the offense is to go back that Vaisnava and beg his forgiveness. (Cb. Madhya 22.32)

    2) To get the Mercy of Nityananda Prabhu by which Vaishnav Aparadha is automatically destroyed (because Lord Nitai represents all the Vaishnavs):

    nityananda-prasade se ninda yaya ksaya
    nityananda-prasade se visnu-bhakti haya

    Only by the causeless mercy of of the name, form and pastimes of Lord Nityananda, one's offenses against Vaishnavas are destroyed and one attains devotional service of Lord Krishna.(136)


    e bada adbhuta katha suna savadhane
    vaishnava aparadha ghuce ihara sravane

    Listen carefully to this wonderful pastime of how Shri Shachimata got delivered from her offense against Shrila Advaita Acharya in this Chp 22. By hearing or reading this narration one will be become from the Vaishnava aparadha committed. (12)

    Without worshipping Nityananda Prabhu and chanting His Holy Name, it is very hard to remove this tendency for Vaishnav Aparadha. However, one who makes Lord Nitai His heart and soul, will automatically respect all Vaishnavs and hence progress in Bhakti. Therefore the best way to protect yourself and others from Vaishnav Aparadhas is to chant/sing and teach others to chant/sing Lord Nityananda Prabhu' Holy Names. Vrndavana das Thakur describes Lord Nityananda Prabhu's walking as "gaja gatim like an Elephant. When the Elephant of Vaishnav Aparadha and the Elephant of Nityananda Prabhu collide, Lord Nitai always wins. This is confirmed in Chaitanya Bhagavata:

    ninda nahi nityananda sevakera mukhe
    aharnisha caitanyera yasa gaya sukhe

    The devotees who have received the great fortune to serve Lord Nityananda Balarama never engage in criticism or blasphemy of other Vaishnavas. Day and night their only activity is to blissfuly sing the name of Lord Gauranga.(137)

    nityananda-bhakta saba dike savadhana
    nityananda-bhrtyera caitanya dhana-prana

    Thus the devotees of Lord Nityananda and always extremely cautious from all directions to totally avoid criticism of other Vaishnavas. Actually they have no time to criticze others because they are busy in chanting the glories of the names and pastimes of Lord Gauranga, who is their life and wealth.

    So, worship Nitai, chant Hare Krsna and be Happy!!

    Jaya Nitai!!

  • There is a poem every seasoned Vishnava knows, "He reasons ill Who thinks that the Guru ever dies, for the Guru dies to live & in living trays to spread the Holy Names around "
    The point being young Bhaktee Jake is, that Krishna is the subject of all scriptures & the source of all worlds, I.e. all powers all authority in all fascists of all creations there for, one need not lament for the eternal indisputable (jiv-atma) marital soul. Sentimentality is a great disturbance to the progress of the mind's recovery from it's infatuation for God's external energies. I advise we all spend less time lamenting the limitless possibilitys positives & negatives & just stay focussed on your mantra & your respectable posture and diction that's it & that's all, "There is no other way" your heart, the quality of your invitation & your relationship with Krishna. Be your own hero JakePrahbu & save you.
  • Sri Sri Bhaktee (Jake prahbu)
    Blasphemy & constructive suggestions are similar in appearance yet very different in intention. For example there is a great difference between say #1(transcendental &
    #2 Transcendent) #1 implys
    (A-karmic) where as #2 implys (a-karmic as well as Spirituality progressive. the point is Krishna may forgive offenses of religionists as/because they are on a path or questioning the nature of the truth
    (in some degree") that however, does not immediately mean He will personally advised them from within their hearts, nore allow them into the intimate mistories of Hi's transcendental transcendence. in the same way when I say to you that Chanting The Holy names of the God Heads properly is transcendental in any case I.e. (A-karmic) to Chant it properly for example Hare-pronounced Ha-Ray is the original and more authorized pronunciation. & Chanting (Ha-day) Krishna is a (sentimental/childish mimicry) of the Guru & nothing more. That you will not be finding that (Ha-day sound making) authorized any place in the past. That in SanScrept, pronunciation I'd everything. By (Direct Perception as well one need only to repeat the two uses of the word to realise (Ha-Day) as poignantly masculine aggressive & as Yang energy's. Just as the karmic reactions or results of the pronouncement HaRay is soft, internal Yin energies. So the question becomes "what person/spiritSoul is (really) attracted to a women person/Goddess who is exuding masculine agressive elusive shakti? Nobody that's who. So because it pervolks a uncommon nature from Goddess are you also being un-attracted even as you are So keenly working diligently working to become attractive & attracted & are you getting to know the Goddess of the God Heads or just the back of Her hand. Just because we have found a position of transcendental existence does that constitute a (spiritually Transcendent realization?
    I for one am certain that the devotees of God are not trying to intentionally offend RoddahHarey, just as I am not trying to agitate the minds of the many Devotees mimicking SrilaPrahbupoda's SrilaPrahbupoda's accent and introduce a brand new name for Sri Sri Hare, however, I can't advise Ha-Day) as the correct message intended to be sent /related attracting or for the development of attention for The GodHeads! the Scriptures don't eddafy it, it's not very attractive & I /we can't take that chance, the chance of presenting Krishna in an incorrect mood and also inadvertently spoiling my rahsa/taste and that of others who are new to the God Heads personality's of unconditional loving and absolute truth. Jake the Goppies take upon their heads, all that Krishna appoints as their destiny, in the same way Prahbupoda has Liborated Us cent-per-cent from the wicked rath of MYA and parked us comfortably under the shelter of the purifying, enlightening energies and awairness of the HeadGods. Who Are we (really) to be putting a new spin on our presentation of them or their HolyNames? Chant properly " To follow to closely the path of another is a path ripe with dangerous consequence " Krishna in the Geta"
    Surly your spiritual evolution is at stake. transcendental is your accomplishment however Transcendence is your goal. I.e.(personal)/individual enlightenment and a progressively evolving understandings regarding the teachings and intentions of the Guru & The GodHeads this, and spreading the Glorys of The Holy Names Around! Sri anundacoty-Vishnavas KiJi
  • Volunteer

    Link you provided is not authorized Vaishnava Sampradaya.

    I suggest you stick to the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

    Very simple formula:

    Trinadapi sunichena....

    Kirtanya sada Hari

    Do not commit Namaparadh.

    When you do Japa or do Kirtana, do with feeling that the Names of Krishna and Krishna are identical and not different.

    In due course of time, you will attain Shudha (pure) Nam, which leads to Krishna Prema.

    • Jai Radhe Shravn Prabhu


      You spoke very nicely about container and holes. And how did you land up creating one?

      You might choose to say that "the link is not ISKCON's " however you choose to say "not authorised Vaishnav Sampradaya" by which you not only created sever offence onto the lotus feet of the author a reverential Gaudiya Vaishnav practitioner Tarun Govind Dasji, but also his Spiritual Master Srila 108 Ananta Das Babaji Maharaj the Mahanta of Radhakund and Sripad Raghunath Das Goswami Chair Acharya of Gaudiya Vaishnavism and all his parampara gurus going back to Dhananjay Pandit Thakur and lORD Nityananda.

      ISKCON might not approve some thought process of Traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism, However calling that not authorised Vaishnav Sampradaya is not correct. As the seed of ISKCON/Gaudiya Math lies with Srila Jagannath Das Babaji Maharaj a reverential Traditional Gaudiya Vaishnav practitioner. So saying the author of the site to not be from an authorised Vaishnav Sampradaya is also doing apparadh onto the lotus feets of ISKCON Acharya.

      I hope you will realize the severity of offence(most probably unknowingly) your words have done and beg forgiveness from respective devotees and lord Nityananda.

      Your Servant
      Das Satyananda

  • Volunteer

    Here is a simple example. You have a container with 10, 11 or whatever number of holes.

    If you want to fill it, you need to close the holes. Else, you would need to fill up heavily, beyond the holes to fill up. Even then, it will get emptied if the holes are not patched.

    Its just the nature of the holes in the container. They just drain. Doesnt matter if you pray to the Lord, as to how He should respond to others criticizing you. Its a nice gesture nevertheless.

    Same thing with Namaparadh, Each Namaparadh is like one of those holes. Even if one of them is open, you will get drained and become ineligible to receive taste for chanting of the names of Krishna, "Kirtanya sada Hari", much less Krishna Prema.

    Namabhash chanting, inattentive chanting, even Muslims saying the word "haram" is sufficient to get moksha, even into Vaikunta. Ref: Harinama Cintamani

    So, it all depends on what you are seeking.

  • Those who dont understands Lords transcendental nature and the nature of transcendental jiva, are not qualified to speak about Absolute Truth.

    Whoever occupy the mind with the Lord the result will be the same, no matter of anything, otherwise offensive and sinful Kamsa, Putana and others would never attained His transcendental nature and abode.

    The Lord is EQUAL toward every living entity, but those separatists who see always differences have a vision that one living entity is above another.

    SB 7.1.27Nārada Muni continued: By devotional service one cannot achieve such intense absorption in thought of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as one can through enmity toward Him. That is my opinion.
    SB 7.1.28-29A grassworm confined in a hole of a wall by a bee always thinks of the bee in fear and enmity and later becomes a bee simply because of such remembrance. Similarly, if the conditioned souls somehow or other think of Kṛṣṇa, who is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, they will become free from their sins. Whether thinking of Him as their worshipable Lord or an enemy, because of constantly thinking of Him they will regain their spiritual bodies.
    SB 7.1.30Many, many persons have attained liberation simply by thinking of Kṛṣṇa with great attention and giving up sinful activities. This great attention may be due to lusty desires, inimical feelings, fear, affection or devotional service. I shall now explain how one receives Kṛṣṇa’s mercy simply by concentrating one’s mind upon Him.
    SB 7.1.31My dear King Yudhiṣṭhira, the gopīs by their lusty desires, Kaṁsa by his fear, Śiśupāla and other kings by envy, the Yadus by their familial relationship with Kṛṣṇa, you Pāṇḍavas by your great affection for Kṛṣṇa, and we, the general devotees, by our devotional service, have obtained the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.
    SB 7.1.32Somehow or other, one must consider the form of Kṛṣṇa very seriously. Then, by one of the five different processes mentioned above, one can return home, back to Godhead. Atheists like King Vena, however, being unable to think of Kṛṣṇa’s form in any of these five ways, cannot attain salvation. Therefore, one must somehow think of Kṛṣṇa, whether in a friendly way or inimically.

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