Narayan and Mahesh are one- Lord Shri Swaminarayan

Hare Krishna,

I am not against any wise person who has more knowledge of vedas, shashtra etc but what I felt after watching so many discussion ,there is always hot discussion. Every devotee claim their god to be superior. If you ask vaishnavas (not all are like that) they will claim shivji like he is only devotee of krishna and if you ask shiv bhakt (not all are like that) they will speak same for krishna. And they both have numerous verses to proove their god superior. But I always got hurt by such discussion in which they either insult shivji or lord krishna. when I see so many verses posted by such devotees, i got confused what is write and wrong.why there is so much difference in different verses. some say everybody went to brahma and he told krishna is superior. then in other shashtras brahma says shiva is superior. each shashtra claims their main god as origin of everything and they are  written by some sages generation by generation. 

There is nothing authentic than that which has been SPOKEN and WRITTEN by god himself and that only ,I am going to present here. It is called as SHIKSHAPATRI which is written by Lord Swaminarayan himself and date is also given by him in his second last verse.

You will find he himself gives instructions which is similar to other vaishnav tradition but what I like the most is VERSE 47 which puts full stop on the difference of Narayan and shiv.

when narayan himself writes this, I don't think anybody is more prudent than Shree Swaminarayan who is himself narayan.

Link of shikshapatri is,http://www.swaminarayan.nu/sampraday/shiksha.shtml 

http://www.swaminarayan.nu/sampraday/shiksha.shtml

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        • Firstly where I told that vishwaroop of lord krishna and watching lord shiva in it is only described in one BG...where did I tell that it is false?.. similarly about lord krishna is god, it is clearly mentined in shikshapatri also..I agree with it 100% but the purpot which is further added into it that tells rubbish things abut lord shiva which is not told in shloka..in addition to that ,there is so much negativity regarding lord shiva is further given in other books which is neither present  in any shloka  of BG ..and regarding lord swaminarayan he doesn't need anybody's certificate..and regarding sampraday, he is far beyond sampraday..for your kind knowledge I am not from swaminarayan sampraday ..and there are several examples in scriptures which depict some WISE and knower of all scriptures who couldn't identify god as god though he was in front of him..daksh prajapati is example of such fools who always defamed lord shiva and what he got everybdy knows similarly there are also mad shiva devotees who defame lord krishna..in nut shell we should mind with our devotin and not to try to give certificate to the status of god..  True knowledge and devotin is not dependent on any sampraday..we should get it from wherever we can get ..I am firm on the words of lord swaminarayn ..if one person is benifitted from it, it is enough for me..if you don't want to trust, go ahead with whatever negativity you have regarding lord shiva..

          • gyaneshwari and other geeta also didn't tell not to worship lord shiva as he is demigod or he gives whatever you want without thinking or he gives material comforts etc...so don't spread such message in public..And that swami is disciple of whom you might have understood..As I said I respect devotion of prabhupad for lord krishna but if somebdy attacks on dignty of lord shiva though I worship krishna , I will stand against him who attacks on lord shiva' respect...And who comes from who that is given different in different scriptures and that you will nt accept as you dn't want to read shiva scriptures that is what I had given in beginning of the discussion..you could have read that to not enlarge discussion.

  • Firstly, there is not at all any doubt that lord krishna is supreme.

    only thing is that why we or whoever sage,human being is daring to give the certificate of position of lord shiva..we sitting at home and reading some texts written by human beings/sages started to give certificate to god. isn't is foolishness? those who are differentiating lord shiva from naryan ,can beat lord shiva ?

    there is very minute line being true vaishnav and being DAKSH PRAJAPATI. we all know what happened to daksh prajapati who was full with ignorance regarding lord shiva. The moment we start to differentiate lord shiva from narayan, we are on the path of DAKSH PRAJAPATI.we can trust on the words of sages,incarnation but we can't trust on the words which had been WRITTEN and SPOKEN bLord Swaminarayan. and those who don't want to accept this punchline of lord swaminarayan can go on the path whicthey have chosen. True vaishnavas Narsih mehta, mirabai etc got lord krishna but they never told lord shiva is only devotee and we sitting at the home giving certificate to kailashpati Mahadev. 

    My only effort was to deliver message of lord swaminarayan which is only saying lord krishna is supreme, he is everything  but pepole can not accept his words that narayan and shiv is one. If one persong is getting message of lord swaminrayan and considers shiva not only devotee but the words shiv and narayan is one, my effort is successful.

    There is not anything equally pure, powerful,divine than the words written by lord himself and that is SHIKSHPATRI.

    And it is teaching the perfect way to accept lord krishna as supreme considering shiv and narayn is one. if one is still not satisfied, it is their destiny.

    Either go with people comprehended DEVOTEE status of lord shiva or with the words of lord swaminarayn.

    And those who don't want to trust the words of lord swaminarayan , can see this link of life story of lord swaminarayan and then if they feel that they have anything atleast 0.00001 % of lord swaminarayn then they are free to go against the words of swaminarayan by giving the status of DEVOTEE to shiva.

    I don't know what is shashtras but for me the words written by god himself is SHASHTRA, UPNISHAD,VEDA everything and that is SHIKSHAPTARI. If in kaliyuga, anybody spends so many years reading thousands of scriptures and at last come at the conclusion that lord shiva is only DEVOTEE better is the person who reads SHIKSHAPATRI and enjoys blees of uniquness of narayan and mahesh without diverting from the path of krishna worship.

    i trust the words of swaminarayan and that's why I strongly condemn that status of DEVOTEE given to shivji..for me narayan and mahesh is one as said by lord swaminarayan and still I enjoy worship of krishna considering him supreme personality. Everybody is free to choose thier own path after reading SHIKSHAPTARI.

    Either consider shiva devotee or consider shiv and narayan one...

    For those who want to see life story of lord swaminarayan and his spiritual journey can see below link which is available

    in hindi by BAPS organization. I am not marketing anything for any organization. Lord krishna should be our organization and I can say here  nobody will doubt  after watching the life story of lord swaminarayan that who he was.

    If anyway I have hurt anybody, I apologize as servant of servants of lord swaminarayan . My only effort was to put the words of swaminarayan and to put true status of shivji.

    Link of life story of lord swaminarayan is,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_IRe1ymeAk

     

    YouTube
  • In the Vedic scriptures, it is described that Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu are same, but the same scriptures again describes that they both are different. Is this a contradiction? Not at all. This is reconciled in the Sri Brahma Samhita—

    Brahma samhita 5.45 — Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Śambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.

    // Lord Shiva is described in the Brahma-samhita to be like curd or yogurt. Curd is not different from milk. Since milk is transformed into curd, in one sense curd is also milk. Similarly, Shiva is in one sense the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but in another sense he is not, just as the curd is milk yet we have to distinguish between the two. Lord Brahma also explains that many candles lit by a single candle may all look similar, yet one candle remains the original. Krishna is like the original candle, because He is the source of Lord Siva and all other spiritual and material energies.

    Ref: Śrī Brahma-saṁhitā which is copied by Lord Sri Chaitanya himself who then gifted it to Murari Gupta (his devotee).

  • srimad bhagavatam is the ripened fruit of all vedas,puranas,upanishads etc.. (nigama kalpa taror galitam phalam). it was written by krsna dvaipayana vyasa .He is the incarnation of bhagavan . whatever he has written has a purpose. he has written many puranas dealing with different demigods as supreme or so. why?
    because not all people are spiritually qualified. people are in different levels of consiousness so they have different eligiblities wrt spirituality.

    there are people who are v gross sinners , can they be instructed on suddha bhakti ? no ,they cant take it. so incarnations like buddha came to teach them ahimsa. but this non violence is not directly bhakti.
    next v see personality like jesus taught people to love their neighbours, to care for others ,have faith in god the father of all etc..but he couldnt speak of devotional service like nava vidha bhakti etc.. they cant take it.

    then there were followers of sankaracharya , he only instructed people upto liberation .nothing further. lastly he only pointed towards haribhakti and remained silent (bhaja govindam mudha mate - worship govinda , oh foolish mind. all ur grammar and logic will not save u at the time of death)

    there are those who are inclined toward vaidi marga ( ramanuja and others preached on this)

    then svayam bhagavan krsna Himself came as gauranga to teach the ultimate substance. His conclusion and teachings are final.
    he says "aradya bhagavan vrajesa tanaya - krsna the son of nanda maharaj is our ultimate object of worship"...."sri chaitanya mahaprabhor matam idam tatradaro na parah - this is chaitanyas opinion and there is nothing beyond " He accepts bhagavatam to be the ultimate authority. only here the ultimate and final conclusion of all sastra is presented by the same author who wrote all those different scriptures.

    all these vedic texts deals with 3 section - karma kanda , jnana kanda and bhakti kanda.

    those who have so many desires , they are adviced to worship demigods for different things .thus there are puranas for those in sattva guna like padma purana, in rajo guna ,in tamoguna like garuda purana. but this karma kanda is to create interest in people towards religious pursuits. then later one understands that all of this ritual and demigod worship is useless since its all temporary .so he desires to become free from all sufferings - thus pusuing jnana marga. but even after liberation still there is bhakti beyond it. this is bhakti kanda. thus all this puranas are steps of ladder leading to bhakti - haribhakti.
    vyas who wrote all these sastra himself concludes that krsna is the supreme lord in his final work bhagavatam. thus we must take this essence.we cant read the entire vedas but if we grasp the essense of it then we will be successful.
  • Supreme personality, Lord Narayana, is the knower of all Vedic knowledge, therefore there is no  need for Him to personally write scriptures down. That activity He left to His incarnation, Srila Vyasadev.

    • Yes, you are right .what you have mentioned has been mentioned by lord swaminarayan also in SHIKSHAPATRI that lord krishna is supreme personality and in fact whole shikshapatri is praising the lord krishna and also about lord shiva and narayan is one..how beautifully he has mentioned to worship lord krishna as supreme personality and not to differentiate lord shiva and narayan is a like divine light amongst ignorance . I am spreading message of lord swaminarayan as his servant .nothing else
      • As I told all scriptures present their god as origin of everything. What you have given about SB totally opposite is given in shivmahapuran verses number ,

        1.2.4,

        1.2.5,

        1.2.6,

        1.2.7,

        1.2.8.

        Shivmahapuran had been also written by Shri vyas. In all this verses we can see everything what we read about lord krishna like all maya is his illusionary energy etc same thing has given in shivamahapuran that all illusionary energy and everything had been created by lord shiva. so it becomes very difficult for a common person to understand why every scripture states different things. why I am giving example of SHIKSHAPATRI because it is written by lord swaminarayan himself and by his beautiful explanation he neither says not to worship krishna nor he says not to see lord shiva as different. by such divine knowledge everybody can serve krishna with great tendency and without getting misleaded from differnece of shiva and narayan.

        • Lord Shiva said to his wife, Srimati Uma :

          SB 8.12.43Lord Śiva said: O Goddess, you have now seen the illusory energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the unborn master of everyone. Although I am one of the principal expansions of His Lordship, even I was illusioned by His energy. What then is to be said of others, who are fully dependent on māyā?

          SB 8.12.44When I finished performing mystic yoga for one thousand years, you asked me upon whom I was meditating. Now, here is that Supreme Person to whom time has no entrance and who the Vedas cannot understand.
          .
          Pure devotee of Lord, Sri Shiva, knows who is the original Supreme Lord, but unfortunately most of his materialistic servants are not qualified to know the Truth.
    • Yes, Shri Narayan is the knower of all vedic knowledge and he himself has written SHIKSHAPATRI which has included all the knowledge of shashtras and the way of living. date on which he wrote this has also been given in his second last verse by himself. As a human being, we can do mistake  to understand the forms of god . that's why god has written this to solve all misunderstanding.Shri Vyasdev is indeed prudent but what we might have understood regarding shiva is our ignorance. And Shri Swaminarayan is himself lord krishna.  What he has instructed is enough to do worship of krishna in proper manner. And all quarells between shaivisam and vaishnavisam is due to ignorance which can be solved by VERSE 47. There is not a single doubt left after Lord Swaminarayn wrote this regarding this issue. We can not doubt Lord Swaminarayan. If somebody still doubt on lord shiva after this, nobody can teach him that lord mahesh and vishnu is one. 

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