Mayavada Philosophy summarized --- why a wrong philosophy ?

0l2b509epm9um September 3, 2012 at 12:17am

Hare Krishna, So after giving the matter due consideration and time I have returned with a bigger stick in the form of some quotations and I will humbly state that, although the request has been made for only senior Gaudiaya Vaisnava Devotees to Answer this discussion and I am by no means a senior anything, it is also our culture to send a junior devotee when senior is not required or will be disturbed and as even a devotee child can very easily defeat Mayavadi Philosophy I feel that I am within my rights to stand between the senior Vaisnavas and such a disturbance and speak on their behalf. That being said I would also like to request you not to underestimate my intellectual capacity to understand the nature of your so called innocent question. Whether or not you are supporting this is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. I am also confused about your use of the phrase "Before making any acquisition on anyone" this is confusing I have taken it too mean "before accusing anyone of something" and I will try to learn from your wise advice but not from your poor use of the English language.

On with a few quotations very easily obtained from Google after searching dangers of mayavadi philosophy. Please next time why not make use of this facility instead using this website to quote Adi Shakara's poetry. or you could have just asked a one sentence question as you have so eloquently asked and I quote "Some people like us are confused what is mayavada. How mayavada explains we are GOD." Bas and finished no need for elaborate poetry quotations for example if I want to ask why is it bad to eat meat I don't need to post a picture of people eating meat or slaughtering animals.

On to the Quotations: http://vedabase.net/tlc/25/en1

The form of the Supreme Lord which is beyond the modes of material nature is not like the forms of this material world. His form is fully spiritual and cannot be compared with any material form. According to Vedic literatures, one who does not accept the spiritual form of the Supreme Lord is an atheist. Because Lord Buddha did not accept these Vedic principles, the Vedic teachers consider him to be an atheist. Although Mayavadi philosophers pretend to accept the Vedic principles, they indirectly preach Buddhist philosophy, or atheistic philosophy, and do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mayavadiphilosophy is inferior to Buddhist philosophy, which directly denies Vedic authority. Because it is disguised as Vedanta philosophy, Mayavadi philosophy is more dangerous than Buddhism or atheism.

Vedanta-sutra is compiled by Vyasadeva for the benefit of all living entities. It is through Vedanta-sutra that the philosophy of bhakti-yoga can be understood. Unfortunately, the Mayavadi commentary, Sariraka-bhashya, has practically defeated the purpose of Vedanta-sutra. In the Mayavadi commentary, the spiritual, transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been denied, and the Supreme Brahman has been dragged down to the level of the individual Brahman, the living entity. Both the Supreme Brahman and the individual Brahman have been denied spiritual form and individuality, although it is clearly stated that the Supreme Lord is the one supreme living entity and the other living entities are the many subordinate living entities. Thus reading theMayavadi commentaries on Vedanta-sutra is always dangerous. The chief danger is that through these commentaries one may come to consider the living entity to be equal to the Supreme Lord. It is easy for a conditioned living entity to be falsely directed in this way, and once he is so directed he can never come to his actual position or enjoy his eternal activity in bhakti yoga. In other words, the Mayavadi philosophy has rendered the greatest disservice to humanity by promoting the impersonal view of the Supreme Lord. Thus Mayavadi philosophers deprive human society of the real message of Vedanta-sutra.

----------and then further down the same page---------------------

Mayavadi philosophy has the audacity to reject the purpose of Vyasadeva, as explained in the Vedanta-sutra, and to attempt to establish a doctrine of transformation which is totally imaginary. According to the Mayavadi philosophy, the cosmic manifestation is but the transformation of the Absolute Truth, and the Absolute Truth has no separate existence outside the cosmic manifestation. This is not the message of Vedanta-sutra. The transformation has been explained by Mayavadi philosophers as false, but it is not false. It is only temporary. The Mayavadi philosophers maintain that the Absolute Truth is the only truth and that this material manifestation known as the world is false. Actually this is not the case. The material contamination is not exactly false; because it is relative truth, it is temporary. There is a difference between something that is temporary and something that is false.

Pranava, or omkara, is the chief vibration found in the Vedic hymns, and omkara is considered to be the sound form of the Supreme Lord. From omkara all Vedic hymns have emanated, and the world itself has also emanated from this omkara sound. The words tat tvam asi, also found in the Vedic hymns, are not the chief vibrations but are explanations of the constitutional position of the living entity. Tat tvam asi means that the living entity is a spiritual particle of the supreme spirit, but this is not the chief motif of the Vedanta or Vedic literatures. The chief sound representation of the Supreme is omkara.

All these faulty explanations of Vedanta-sutra are considered atheistic. Because the Mayavadi philosophers do not accept the eternal transcendental form of the Supreme Lord, they are unable to engage in real devotional service. Thus the Mayavadi philosopher is forever bereft of Krishna consciousness and Krishna's devotional service. The pure devotee of the Personality of Godhead never accepts the Mayavadi philosophy as an actual path to transcendental realization. TheMayavadi philosophers hover in the moral and immoral material atmosphere of the cosmic world and consequently are always engaged in rejecting and accepting material enjoyment. They have falsely accepted the nonspiritual as the spiritual, and as a result they have forgotten the spiritual eternal form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as well as His name, quality and entourage. They consider the transcendental pastimes, name, form and qualities of the Supreme to be products of material nature. Because of their acceptance and rejection of material pleasure and misery, the Mayavadi philosophers are eternally subjected to material misery.

The actual devotees of the Lord are always in disagreement with the Mayavadi philosophers. There is no way that impersonalism can possibly represent eternity, bliss and knowledge. Being situated in imperfect knowledge of liberation, the Mayavadi decries eternity, knowledge and bliss as materialism. Because they reject devotional service, they are unintelligent and unable to understand the effects of devotional service. The word jugglery they use in an attempt to amalgamate knowledge, the knowable and the knower simply reveals them to be unintelligent. The doctrine of by-product is the real purport of the beginning ofVedanta-sutra. The Lord is empowered with innumerable unlimited energies, and consequently He displays the by-products of these energies in different ways. Everything is under His control. The Supreme Lord is also the supreme controller, and He is manifested in innumerable energies and expansions.

Actually this one Quote is enough. Hare Krishna

0l2b509epm9um September 1, 2012 at 11:24pm

Thanks for explaining,I will re read the question and give this some consideration. After all I may have been a little too confrontational for many devotee's taste and perhaps that will create a bad impression.

It is not your fault that I had to fight Mayavadi since a very young child and perhaps I need to be more tactful and respectfull on this website.

Hare Krishna. I am trying to learn how to be less angry and more controlled. Your Servant Bhakta Francis.

0l2b509epm9um August 28, 2012 at 9:09pm

Are you sure you are being sincere when you ask this Question? I do not really think you want an answer but you rather want to create some confusion on this site. The best thing I can say is if you are Shiva then please drink and ocean of poison and do not die! then I will attempt to answer your long and boring request for a step by step explanation otherwise if you know this poem is not true why post it here in a gaudiya Vaisnava website knowing how the devotees consider Mayavadi Philosophy to be equal to trying to beat the deity with a stick! I do not wish to see this kind of literature and I do not need to be humble to your insincere request. Hare Krishna! If you find this reply slightly offensive please consider how offensive it is to claim to be Lord Shiva. I hope you can understand my point if not please ask me nicely to explain and I will give you a more elaborate explanation of why a mayavadi is in the most abominable condition worse than any other philosophy the darkest of ignorance and highly offensive towards Shri Krishna and his devotees.

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Gourab Saha August 28, 2012 at 10:04am

Well said, Sudipta Prabhu!!! But unfortunately the whole world is infested with mayavadis today. There are more mayavadis than materialists.

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Sudipta Roy August 28, 2012 at 9:54am

If I am Shiva, then How come I came under the grasp of Maya or Illusion ? Isn't GOD by definition is all powerful and controller of maya , then If I was GOD before then how come Maya became powerful than GOD ? So if Maya can some time overpower GOD then what is meaning of my Mukti or becoming GOD again? is there any gurantee that I will not fall in maya again as according to mayavad maya sometimes overpowers God.

Actually only non-sense foolish people believe in this theory.

Your aspiring servant

Hari Bol

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Gourab Saha August 28, 2012 at 9:49am

A little mistake, in the 1st post, there is a line,"This is a wrong beacuse I'm jivatman. I'm consciousness but I'm only conscious of my own entity. I'm not pervasive." It will be I'm not all-pervasive.

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Sudipta Roy August 28, 2012 at 9:49am

The Legendary Acharya Ramanujacharya Stated the below in the begining of his Vedanta Sutra commentary regarding mayavad and the followers of Mayavada.

"This entire theory rests on a fictitious foundation of altogether hollow and vicious arguments, incapable of being stated in definite logical alternatives, and devised by men who are destitute of those particular qualities which cause individuals to be chosen by the Supreme Person revealed in the Upanishads; whose intellects are darkened by the impression of beginningless evil; and who thus have no insight into the nature of words and sentences, into the real purport conveyed by them, and into the procedure of sound argumentation, with all its methods depending on perception and the other instruments of right knowledge. The theory therefore must needs be rejected by all those who, through texts, perception and the other means of knowledge--assisted by sound reasoning--have an insight into the true nature of things."

What else can be said about them.............................:)

Your aspiring Servant

Hari Bol

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Gourab Saha August 28, 2012 at 9:43am

Shiva tells Parvati-----

Padma Purana 6.236.7

mayavadam asac chastram pracchannam bauddham uchyate
mayaiva kalpitam devi kalau brahmana rupina

"Mayavada or Advaita philosophy is an impious, wicked belief and against all the conclusions of the Vedas. It is only covered Buddhism. My dear Parvati, in Kali-Yoga I assume the form of a brahmana (Adi Shankara) and teach this imagined philosophy."

Padma Purana 6.236.8-9

apartham sruti-vakyanam darsayan loka-garhitam
sva-karma-rupam tyajya tvam atraiva pratipadyate

sarva-karma paribhrastair vaidharma tvam tad ucyate
paresa-jiva-paraikyam maya tu pratipadyate

"This mayavada advaita philosophy preached by me (in form of Adi Shankara) deprives the words of the holy texts of their acutal meaning and thus it is condemned in the world. It recommends the renunciation of one's own duties, since those who have fallen from their duties say that the giving up of duties is religiosity. In this way, I have also falsely propounded the identity of the Supreme Lord and the individual soul."

Padma Purana 6.236.10

brahmanas caparam rupam nirgunam vaksyate maya
sarva-svam jagato py asya mohanartham kalu yuge

"In order to bewilder the atheists, in Kali-yuga, I describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Gauranga Krishna to be without any form and without qualities."

Padma Purana 6.236.11

vedante tu maha-sastrera mayavadam avaidikam
mayaiva vaksyate devi jagatam nasha-karanat

"Similarly, in explaning Vedanta mahashastra, I described the same non-scriptural and inauspicious mayavada philosophy in order to mislead the entire population toward atheism by denying the personal form of my beloved Lord."

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Gourab Saha August 28, 2012 at 9:32am

Also I have a form. It is transcendental, that Bhagavatam calls Bhagavati tanu. Why Bhagavati tanu??? Bhagavati tanu means a body dedicated to the service of Lord. As we have an eternal relationship with Krishna, when we are transferred to the spiritual platform from bodily, mental and intellectual platform, we serve god with a transcendental body, the siddha-deha(spiritual body) and transcendental senses. It's not that I'm without attributes.Take for the example, the gopis. The gopis have an etrnal, blissful and a spiritual body like Krishna.They are all expansions of Radharani. In Bramha Samhita it is stated....

ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis

tabhir ya eva nija-rupataya kalabhih

goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhuto

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

TRANSLATION

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, residing in His own realm, Goloka, with Radha, resembling His own spiritual figure, the embodiment of the ecstatic potency possessed of the sixty-four artistic activities, in the company of Her confidantes [sakhis], embodiments of the extensions of Her bodily form, permeated and vitalized by His ever-blissful spiritual rasa.

In spiritual world, we get a body according to our bhav as Bramha Samhita states---

yam krodha-kama-sahaja-pranayadi-bhiti-

vatsalya-moha-guru-gaurava-sevya-bhavaih

sancintya tasya sadrsim tanum apur ete

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

TRANSLATION

I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, the meditators of whom, by meditating upon Him under the sway of wrath, amorous passion, natural friendly love, fear, parental affection, delusion, reverence and willing service, attain to bodily forms befitting the nature of their contemplation.

PURPORT

Devotion is of two kinds, viz., (1) of the nature of deference to regulation and (2) constituted of natural feeling. Bhakti is roused by following with a tinge of faith in the rule of the sastras and instruction of the preceptors. Such bhakti is of the nature of loyalty to the scriptural regulations. It continues to be operative as long as the corresponding natural feeling is not roused. If a person loves Krsna out of natural tendency. there is the principle of raga, which is no other than a strong desire to serve, which turns into bhava or substantive feeling. When the substantive feeling is aroused the devotee becomes an object of mercy of Krsna. It takes much time to attain this stage. Devotion which is of the nature of feeling is superior to that connected with scriptural regulation, soon attains to the realized state and is attractive to Krsna. Its various aspects are described in this sloka. Santa-bhava, full of reverence to superior, dasya-bhava, full of service for carrying out the commands of the object of worship, sakhya-bhava or natural friendly love, vatsalya-bhava or parental affection and madhura-bhava or amorous love, are all included in the category of devotion of the nature of instinctive attachment. But anger, fear and delusion, though they are of the nature of instinctive impulse, are not devotion in the strict sense of the term, because they are not friendly but hostile to the object. Anger is found in asuras like Sisupala, fear in Kamsa, and delusion in the panditas of the pantheistic school. They have the feelings of anger, fear and instinctive impulse marked by complete self-forgetful identification with the nondifferentiated Brahman. But as there is no friendly feeling towards the object of devotion there is no bhakti. Again among the feelings of santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhura--santa, though indifferent and dormant in raga, is still reckoned as bhakti on account of its being a little friendly. There is an immense volume of raga in the other four varieties of emotion. By the promise of Gita, ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham ("I serve one according to his submission"), those, who allow themselves to be actuated by the sentiments of fear, anger and delusion, attain to sayujya-mukti (merging in the Absolute). The santas obtain bodily forms with aptitude for addiction to Brahman and Paramatma. The dasya and sakhya classes of worshipers attain bodily forms characterized by masculine or feminine disposition according to their respective grades of eligibility. The vatsalya class of worshipers get bodily forms befitting fatherly and motherly sentiments. The amorous lovers of Krsna attain the pure forms of gopis (spiritual milkmaids of Vraja).

By attaining spiritual body, the devotee serves Krishna with his transcendental senses. But the mayavadis can't consider spiritual varieties. They think all is one Bramha which is actually the bodily effulgence of Krishna. They can't go beyond that. So their knowledge is not complete.

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Gourab Saha August 28, 2012 at 9:22am

Hare Krishna!!! First of all, jiva tattva and shiva tattva are different as Sudipta prabhu has elaborately explained in the discussion 'Radharani-internal potency...' So jiva can't be shiva. The mayavadis consider jiva and shiva to be identical . Thus they deny the whole process of creation as mentioned in the Vedas. So I can't be that eternal knowing and bliss Shiva......Shivoham. I'm Dasoham, servant of Sri Krishna. As Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, jiver swarup hoi krishner nitya das, the constitutional position of a living entity is that he is the eternal servitor of Lord Krishna.

' I am all pervasive.
I am without any attributes,
and without any form. '

This is a wrong beacuse I'm jivatman. I'm consciousness but I'm only conscious of my own entity. I'm not pervasive.It's Paramatman that is all-pervasive. As Paramatman is situated in each and every living entity, it's all pervasive. That's why, Prabhupada said, the individual living entity knows his own business but the Supersoul, PARAMATMAN, knows everybody's business.As Krishna confirms in Gita---

viṣṭabhyāham idaḿ kṛtsnam

ekāḿśena sthito jagat

PURPORT

The Supreme Lord is represented throughout the entire material universes by His entering into all things as the Supersoul. The Lord here tells Arjuna that there is no point in understanding how things exist in their separate opulence and grandeur. He should know that all things are existing due to Kṛṣṇa's entering them as Supersoul. From Brahmā, the most gigantic entity, on down to the smallest ant, all are existing because the Lord has entered each and all and is sustaining them.

There is a Mission(you know which mission) that regularly propounds that worship of any demigod will lead one to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or the supreme goal. But worship of demigods is thoroughly discouraged herein because even the greatest demigods like Brahmā and Śiva represent only part of the opulence of the Supreme Lord. He is the origin of everyone born, and no one is greater than Him. He is asamaurdhva, which means that no one is superior to Him and that no one is equal to Him. In the Padma Purāṇa it is said that one who considers the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa in the same category with demigods — be they even Brahmā or Śiva — becomes at once an atheist. If, however, one thoroughly studies the different descriptions of the opulences and expansions of Kṛṣṇa's energy, then one can understand without any doubt the position of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa and can fix his mind in the worship of Kṛṣṇa without deviation. The Lord is all-pervading by the expansion of His partial representation, the Supersoul, who enters into everything that is. Pure devotees, therefore, concentrate their minds in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in full devotional service; therefore they are always situated in the transcendental position. Devotional service and worship of Kṛṣṇa are very clearly indicated in this chapter in verses eight through eleven. That is the way of pure devotional service. How one can attain the highest devotional perfection of association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been thoroughly explained in this chapter. Śrīla BaladevaVidyābhūṣaṇa, a great ācārya in disciplic succession from Kṛṣṇa, concludes his commentary on this chapter by saying,

yac-chakti-leśāt suryādyā

bhavanty aty-ugra-tejasaḥ

yad-aḿśena dhṛtaḿ viśvaḿ

sa kṛṣṇo daśame 'rcyate

From Lord Kṛṣṇa's potent energy even the powerful sun gets its power, and by Kṛṣṇa's partial expansion the whole world is maintained. Therefore Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is worshipable.

The mayavadis think that paramatman and jivatman are same. Hence they say, I'm all pervasive.

The Paramatman, or the Supersoul, is distinguished from jivatman, the individual soul that enjoys the fruits of the body. Jivatman is under the spell of the material qualities, and he enjoys of suffers material activities and consequences, but Paramatman has nothing to do with the material qualities. Some people, who do not know, say thatParamatman and jivatman are the same, but they do not understand that Paramatman has nothing to do with material qualities. He may be compared to a doctor in the hospital tending to his sick patients. He himself is not sick. Only a fool would say that, because the doctor is in the hospital, he too must be sick, so it is the same with those who say that because jivatman and Paramatman live together in the same body, they are the same. Paramatman is never affected by material things like toothaches, even though He is in the same body. The devotee of Krishna must accept the duality of Paramatman and jivatman.

Krishna lives in the body, but He is transcendental. When He comes to earth, He has nothing to do with the material qualities. People in ignorance think that because Krishna is manifested in a human body He is just an ordinary man. This is explicitly denied in Bhagavad Gita: "Foolish persons deride Me when I assume this human form of my transcendental nature. They do so without knowing my supremacy over everything created." (Gita, 10.11)

We must always distinguish between Paramatman and jivatman. In the Upanishads they are compared to two birds sitting in the same tree. One bird (jivatman) is eating the fruits of the tree, while the other bird (Paramatman) just sits and watches. Similarly, Krishna and Arjuna sat in the same chariot, but Arjuna knew that Krishna was the Supreme. We are also in the same chariot with Krishna, and we too should know that He is the Supreme. Even in the midst of the material world, Krishna is not attached. He does not act out of need, because he has no desires.

To become like Krishna, we should give up all material desires, andtake shelter of Krishna. Everything that we do, we do with His permission. If we want to turn away from Him, He lets us; if we want to suffer, He lets us. We must first realize that we are suffering, andthen ask why. When the question "why" arises in the mind, it is time to approach a spiritual master who is conversant with the Transcendental Nature, and is fully engaged in spiritual matters twenty-four hours a day. A spiritual master is a man who never leaves his spiritual work to seek sense gratification.

We must know that we are actually qualitatively one with Krishna. When jivatman knows that he is not this body, he becomes like Paratman. Jivatman is almost God, but not quite. Jivatman is wonderful, but not equal to God. The quality is the same, but the quantity is far different. For example, the rays of the sun spread all over the sky, but they come from the sun. Likewise, the Brahmajyoti illumines far andwide, but it emanates from Krishna. The soul is a spark in the heart, but its energy spreads all over the body. As the earth and sky are illumined by the sun, so the body is maintained by the spiritual spark. As the body is maintained by the individual soul, so the entire universe is maintained by God, or the Super-soul. I am not the Supreme. I merely illumine this body, but the Supreme illumines the entire universe.'

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Mayavada Philosophy summarized --- why a wrong philosophy ?

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