Hare Krishna,
I read an article where a man was claiming that other Vaisnava sampradayas does not accept Mahaprabhu as Krishna. is this true?
Link to Prediction of mahaprabhu:
http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/caitanya.htm
Hari Bol !!!!
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LINKS ON..VAISHNAVA SAMPRADAYA.
We all know you have firm believe on Prabhupada and his teachings .... you don't need to Admit it in front of us.
you care for us that's why you are listening replying to us with patience.
Your Servant
Unfortunately ... their is no scientific fact against onion & garlic .... if you google Garlic you get it as one of the most important herbal medicine (good for blood pressure to joint pain).... onion have got some complex carbohydrate (forgot the name) that helps to prevent sun stroke ... and not much research on it's affects on human mind....
and it is said they came out of the mixture of blood of rahu/ketu and of Nectar that's why this items have got some medicinal benefits. but as it have got a dirty origin we don't offer it....
if so I WOULDN'T have wasted my time over here arguing on such things ..... and I am not saying I am senior to you but I don't need to try knowing about Gaudiya Philosophy I am born in it .... I believe during your graduation period only you came to know about Mahaprabhu and about his Real Identity.
Aswin Prabhu please don't take my words in wrong way ... problem is that I am not inteligent enough to make you understand what I mean .... Selection of proper phrase and proper words were always problem for me. Understanding some thing by seeing both the side is very important (what makes you think you are pious enough that you will get a pure association of devotees (who don't cheat) that you can put all your reasoning in the dustbin) .... blindly believing something is not 'SHABDA PRAMANA' only the features of krishna you have you hear from Pure Devotees (and realise we cannot understand this type of things this faith is not valid for all the teachings). renaming things if you can verify you must go for it.
any ways I believe neither me and nor you are Interested in discussing the features of RKM ... but for the information .... Their Philosophy is not of a Impersonal God.
100 likes .. my story is also smiler ... by family and tradition I am a Gaudya Vaishnv .... But I learnt A,B,C,D of spiritual life out of Vivekanada Books. (upto class VIII I was deeply devoted to local science club funded by govt, it had nothing to do with science but aimed at dis-proving spiritual principles ).
but later on... I had no faith in Ramkrishna Dev or his Philosophy I learnt about him through a TV programme. But I knew Vivekananda was a great personality That's why I gave a try and felt cultural heritage comes first then a superstition less society ... in pursuit of establishing scientific thinking we shouldn't attack our spiritual heritage.
this is the greatness of rkm they aim toward today's sudras who don't have faith at all .. and bring boys upto a level when they start appreciating the spirituality ..... they only taught me how to respect a Saffron that later on helped me to get faith in Prabhupada and I gave it a try. I believe you will agree neither you nor me would have accepted Prabhupada as an IDEAL person to be followed. if RKM wouldn't have touched us.
Unlike KGP Voice which approaches to whole 1st years and by sweet words making them to attend camps and get few boys every year .... and trying washing their brains, and boys who do question ... just give them less importance and stop showing all fake and superficial love which you had shown during their 1st years, that they may move out .... because you cannot extract out any thing out of them. and you are studying in a engg collage than you say Prabhupada said their is no use of taking science so seriously because this imperfect knowledge is not going to carry over to our next life.
if this was the mentality of Prabhupada he would never had a separate institute for scientists. they are actually putting a wrong image of Prabhupada.
Hare Krishna Rahul Prabhuji and Other Devotees. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
I am afraid to hear that RKM is propogating Krishna is the original form of GOD, Krishna is supreme personality of God head and all other demigods like Kali,Shiva are subordinate to him. Does they spreading Vaishnava philosophy now - a -days ? :) I hope not so. RKM is known as Advaitin and preach impersonal philosophy. They beileve all deity are same and you can realize impersonal Brahman by concentrating on a particualr deity of your inclination.
/*Regarding Demigod worship, you will not believe but still to say, they are actually Smartha who incourage worshiping Krishna, Shiva, Durga etc though they don't claim to be so.. A student of that institution knows this. they are not preacher of formless God .During my stay for 9 years there I never heard god is formless, Dont worship Krishna,Krishna Is loose character.*/
The real meaning of smarta is A smarta is called "Panchaupasak" or a worshipper of five kind of deity namely Vishnu,Devi,Shiva,Sun and Ganesh. They don't give priority to Vishnu as supreme personality of Godhead rather they worship the impersonal God within these five deities. They perform upasana of personal form of God thus they come to the platform of impersonal realization of God. The goal is impersonal realization of God not to become servant of personal God. This is the process of worship and sadhana of any impersonal (Advaita) school of thought.
If I am wrong in my understanding please ask senior personel of RKM. Isn't RKM is ADVAITA(Impersonal) Ashrama? Aren't their teaching is from Adi-Shankara (an impersonalists)? A student of RKM must know throughly the ADvaita philosophy before bringforth any statement to public. Which may spread wrong message among the innocent practicioners.
They preach "every path leads to same". you worship Kali you will reach impersonal Brahman.They don't preach that you worship Krishna only others are demigods and suboridnate to Krishna ? This "every path leads to same is a wrong philosophy propgated by them which Krishna clearly condemning in Bhagavd Gita
BG 7.23: Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.
BG 9.25: Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me.
If one but ticket of Bombay He will reach Bombay only, not that the train will take him to Kerala. Not all path leads to same which is wrong philosophy they are propogating.A particular path leads you to a particular destination.
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Humbleness has its application depending on circumstances. If someone is misleading people by giving wrong philosophy we should protest thats what Srila Prabhupada, Srila Saraswati Maharaja taught us. Else we are doing a big injustice to the innocent public. When their is some good cause to protest we must do that else Arjuna would not have fight, Hanuman would not have burnt Lanka.
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DEMONS, RASCALS are the words often used by Srila Prabhupada to mayavadis, some people critisize Prabhupada for that. But we must know Prabhupada is not saying this by his own. It is what Krishna saying in Bhagavd Gita
BG 7.15: Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me.
BG 9.11: Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.
So we have to take our own decision whether we will take Krishna's words which may seems harsh or we should surrender to mundane moral person brieft of spirituality.
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/*In their diksha mantra the name of Krishna and Ram is there not Kali. I should not tell these because these are confidential . How many organization does so ?*/
The diksha mantra given to the people contains the name Ram and Krishna true, But it is the mantra to Saint RamKrishna, which they worships as Ista Devata as sarva deva devi sawroopa. It is not Lord Rama or Lord Krishna. Because Advaitins believe that GURU is GOD. People need to know this truth.
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The last but not the least most of the people thinks Humanitarian work can be certified as spiritual. But it is utter wrong concept has no support of Vedanta.
"Ignorant fools, regarding sacrifices and humanitarian works as the highest, do not know any higher good. Having enjoyed their reward on the heights of heaven, gained by good works, they enter again this world or a lower one." (Mundaka Upanisad 2.10 ~ One of the major Upanisad out of eleven)
Spirituality is not mere Human welfare works , it is a lot more than this.
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SO RKM may be good in Social welfare works, But it is nowhere near to ISKCON interms of Vedantic Practice. ISKCON is 100% spiritual organization where as RKM is a Welfare organization. They should not claim them as spiritual and no where comes in comparison to ISKCON interms of knowing GOD.
Hope this will help
your aspiring Servant
Hari Bol
and about the popularity of Lord Chaitnya Mahaprabhu ... my experience being a resident of bengal.
Condition are poor.. and People respect Mahaprabhu as a Great Devotee of Krishna (not the Krishna himself). and the reasons are other spiritual organizations Ramkrishna Mission is one of the leading and key to there success is that they dont impose any thing fanatically.. they first convince devotees logically and then encourage them to go for sincere practice (most of them chant Hare Krishna only along with some confidential Mantra), Prabhupada in his conversions many times have pointed out the powerful features of their organizational strategies. only bad thing he had pointed out about them is they worship DemiGod, he says in Room Conversation Varëäçrama System Must Be Introduced
—
February 14, 1977, Mäyäpura "This is the standard of... Ramakrishna, he was worshiping goddess Kälé. It is condemned in the Bhagavad-gétä, kämais tais tair håta-jïänäù prapadyante 'nya-devatäù [Bg. 7.20], that "Anyone who is worshiping a demigod, he is lost of all sense." So this man, by losing his all senses, worshiping a demigod, he became God. People do not take reference from Bhagavad-gétä, that "A demigod worshiper has no sense,"
but in reality what I see around is mostly people who are old or the people who are interested in enjoy the reaches of spiritual world are mostly interested in this ... as this process had degraded into such a state that it accommodates no place for intellectual reasoning, Specially in Iskcon Kolkata and Kharagpur Voice things are such .. Scriptures and Prabhupada is saying this this and this so if you don't believe in this you are a fool. it works wth non-bengalis because by their tradition they got firm believe in spiritual activities. but thoughtful people dislike them and make a Image about us that we are brainless followers of mahaprabhu ... (but people in Mayapur are really nice they don't try to impose any thing).
I got connected to Iskcon because I wanted this 100 rupees Bhagabat Gita By A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami .. where as other bengali gita would have cost me 250 rupees.
and The organizations with I have interacted personally and found they don't consider Mahaprabhu as Krishna are the organizations of modern age .... other wise I had heard from prabhujees that even the devotees of South accept mahaprabhu as krishna
Hare krishna Bramharpan Bindaputra Prabhuji. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Being a resident of Bengal , what I have realized as a bengali that they lack spirituality. Then how come we can take their View on Mahaprabhu? What a fish-eater can say about Mahaprabhu? Bengalis are Kali-Pujari, they lack care about spirituality , rather they will do puja who will feed meat and wine. That is reason behind RamKrishna Mission success. Ramkrishna mission propgate you can eat meat still you can attain liberation , then why not people go there? I don't see any spiritual reasoning in their proccess. A bunch of spiritual blind people doing humanitarian work and propogating their mission as spiritual. And who goes to Ramkrishna mission now a days , a few only. Students of Ramkrishna mission joining Iskcon.Bengali People don't want to come to Iskcon because they can't follow the four regulative principles partularly meat-eating. For non-bengalis its easy to follow, because they at least follow the scriptures upto some extent.
One person's intellect is not able to understand the subject matter doesn't mean He got the rite to judge others intellectual capacity. It is not neccessary that a 5th standard student will grasp all the subject matter that what teacher teaches him in one day. The teacher may correct in his approach, but the student may lack of adoptibility due to not perceiving the things with undevoloped intelligence.
Iskcon Kolkata and Kharagpur Voice is one of the most spiritually vibrant part of ISKCON right now. Intellectual discussion is always appreciable and always being given preference in ISKCON. But sometime some may not get satisfactory answer because of not approaching a proper person. That doesn't mean one got the rite to give a generalized opinion on an organization level. Not everytime time we may convince by all that we hear, it takes time to realize those things. It is also sometimes difficult to understand some topic of Bhagavatm intellectually, but for that rather than loosing patience and blaiming we need to wait with faith and continue our sadhana thus Krishna make us realize those. Intellect works when it connect things with proper conviction, conviction comes from experience and realization. It needs time and practice and mercy.
Discussion on Mahaprabhu as Krishna is not a juridiction of intellectual discussion of a Non-gaudiyas , its a part of realization. What is the value of statement of outside people ??? Do they follow Mahaprabhu in to-to? Do they follow Mahaprabhu's teachings ? Then why should a Krishna Bhakta have to take their statement to establish Mahprabhu's position. Should we have to take the opinion of a meat-eater, smoker to establish the authority of Mahaprabhu as Krishna. What Kind of non-sensical argument is this.
your aspiring servant
Hari Bol
Hare krishan .. Please take My Respectful Obesecence
1. "Discussion on Mahaprabhu as Krishna is not a juridiction of intellectual discussion" where you got this?
2. "Should we have to take the opinion of a meat-eater ...What a fish-eater can say about Mahaprabhu? Bengalis are Kali-Pujari, they lack care about spirituality" .....when you clam you are willing to deliver fallen souls you have to consider them.... and I guess you remember ... in mahabharat Panbdabas took MEAT ... and in kali yuga you cannot blam any one for taking nonveg. I goes away only by chanting and by honering prasad .... from my class Viii to XI it took me 3 years to give up fish (later I found their was no need for this. 1st one have to practice than it will automatically go) ...(and all over india only in Bengal you will get more than 60% of hindus who offer 'naybadya' (prasadam) (don't take Onion / Garlic and nonvage) on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday) people of other state consider onion & garlic to be veg .... (it is not that they didn't had access to Manu Samhita or they don't know it is restricted.) .... in bengal veg food means food with without onion & garlic ....
Hare Krishna Prabhuji. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
/*1. "Discussion on Mahaprabhu as Krishna is not a juridiction of intellectual discussion" where you got this?*/
Can you understand intellectually that Mahaprabhu as Krishna if some one provide you only scriptural references ? tell me is it possible. But you can realize when you adopt his teachings in to to and practice it in ur life, when your heart cry for Mahaprabhu then only you will understand Mahaprabhu is non other than Krishna. If I say you Krishna is very sweet and you must have to understand his sweetness intellectually . would you be able to understand it intellectually ? No. when you chant, serve you only know. Similarly the context of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as Krishna has to be realized , it is not just bookish intellectual debate.
/*2. "Should we have to take the opinion of a meat-eater ...What a fish-eater can say about Mahaprabhu? Bengalis are Kali-Pujari, they lack care about spirituality" .....when you clam you are willing to deliver fallen souls you have to consider them.... and I guess you remember ... in mahabharat Pabdabas took MEAT ... and in kali yuga you cannot blam any one for taking nonveg. I goes away only by chanting and by honering prasad .... from my class Viii to XI it took me 3 years to give up fish (later I found their was no need for this. 1st one have to practice than it will automatically go) ...(and all over india only in Bengal you will get more than 60% of hindus who offer 'naybadya' (prasadam) (don't take Onion / Garlic and nonvage) on Tuesday Thursday and Saturday)
*/
Try to understand what I have said, I said we don't need people's opinion about Mahaprabhu who are not followers of him, the question was not about deliver fallen souls. who doesn't know about Mahprabhu how they will know he is God. Even when Krishna presents on earth very few confidential people knew he was God. similarly we must take account the opinion of Acharyas who followed and lived life by Mahaprabhu's message. Is it difficult to understand?
Again the context was not about giving Hari_naam to meat-eaters rather don't take their opinion on Mahaprabhu in the first place. Only a person know about and favorable to Mahprabhu can say about Mahprabhu, Else it will be like asking about Krishna's form to a Impersonalists.
Your aspiring servant
Hari Bol
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