Law of Karma - Pre Karma - Forum - ISKCON Desire Tree

SB 11.23.42 — The brāhmaṇa said:

These people are not the cause of my happiness and distress. Neither are the demigods, my own body, the planets, my karma, or time. Rather, it is the mind alone that causes happiness and distress and perpetuates the rotation of material life.

SB 11.23.43 — The powerful mind actuates the functions of the material modes, from which evolve the different kinds of material activities in the modes of goodness, ignorance and passion. From the activities in each of these modes develop the corresponding statuses of life.

SB 11.23.44 — Although present along with the struggling mind within the material body, the Supersoul is not endeavoring, because He is already endowed with transcendental enlightenment. Acting as my friend, He simply witnesses from His transcendental position. I, the infinitesimal spirit soul, on the other hand, have embraced this mind, which is the mirror reflecting the image of the material world. Thus I have become engaged in enjoying objects of desire and am entangled due to contact with the modes of nature.

SB 11.23.45 — Charity, prescribed duties, observance of major and minor regulative principles, hearing from scripture, pious works and purifying vows all have as their final aim the subduing of the mind. Indeed, concentration of the mind on the Supreme is the highest yoga.

SB 11.23.46 — If one’s mind is perfectly fixed and pacified, then tell me what need does one have to perform ritualistic charity and other pious rituals? And if one’s mind remains uncontrolled, lost in ignorance, then of what use are these engagements for him?

SB 11.23.47 — All the senses have been under the control of the mind since time immemorial, and the mind himself never comes under the sway of any other. He is stronger than the strongest, and his godlike power is fearsome. Therefore, anyone who can bring the mind under control becomes the master of all the senses.

SB 11.23.48 — Failing to conquer this irrepressible enemy, the mind, whose urges are intolerable and who torments the heart, many people are completely bewildered and create useless quarrel with others. Thus they conclude that other people are either their friends, their enemies or parties indifferent to them.

SB 11.23.49 — Persons who identify with this body, which is simply the product of the material mind, are blinded in their intelligence, thinking in terms of “I” and “mine.” Because of their illusion of “this is I, but that is someone else,” they wander in endless darkness.

SB 11.23.50 — If you say that these people are the cause of my happiness and distress, then where is the place of the soul in such a conception? This happiness and distress pertain not to the soul but to the interactions of material bodies. If someone bites his tongue with his own teeth, at whom can he become angry in his suffering?

SB 11.23.51 — If you say that the demigods who rule the bodily senses cause suffering, still, how can such suffering apply to the spirit soul? This acting and being acted upon are merely interactions of the changeable senses and their presiding deities. When one limb of the body attacks another, with whom can the person in that body be angry?

SB 11.23.52 — If the soul himself were the cause of happiness and distress, then we could not blame others, since happiness and distress would be simply the nature of the soul. According to this theory, nothing except the soul actually exists, and if we were to perceive something besides the soul, that would be illusion. Therefore, since happiness and distress do not actually exist in this concept, why become angry at oneself or others?

SB 11.23.53 — And if we examine the hypothesis that the planets are the immediate cause of suffering and happiness, then also where is the relationship with the soul, who is eternal? After all, the effect of the planets applies only to things that have taken birth. Expert astrologers have moreover explained how the planets are only causing pain to each other. Therefore, since the living entity is distinct from these planets and from the material body, against whom should he vent his anger?

SB 11.23.54 — If we assume that fruitive work is the cause of happiness and distress, we still are not dealing with the soul. The idea of material work arises when there is a spiritual actor who is conscious and a material body that undergoes the transformation of happiness and distress as a reaction to such work. Since the body has no life, it cannot be the actual recipient of happiness and distress, nor can the soul, who is ultimately completely spiritual and aloof from the material body. Since karma thus has no ultimate basis in either the body or the soul, at whom can one become angry?

SB 11.23.55 — If we accept time as the cause of happiness and distress, that experience still cannot apply to the spirit soul, since time is a manifestation of the Lord’s spiritual potency and the living entities are also expansions of the Lord’s spiritual potency manifesting through time. Certainly a fire does not burn its own flames or sparks, nor does the cold harm its own snowflakes or hail. In fact, the spirit soul is transcendental and beyond the experience of material happiness and distress. At whom, therefore, should one become angry?

SB 11.23.56 — The false ego gives shape to illusory material existence and thus experiences material happiness and distress. The spirit soul, however, is transcendental to material nature; he can never actually be affected by material happiness and distress in any place, under any circumstance or by the agency of any person. A person who understands this has nothing whatsoever to fear from the material creation.

Hare Krsna Prabhuji,

PAMHO.

What is pre ordained is what is called law of karma. It is dependent on our activity over lifetimes. When we surrender to Krsna, He takes over our karma. This is dependent on the level of our surrender.

Again, effects of karma can be in different stages - beej (seed stage), phala (fruit), and other stages in between. For eg;, a blind person will not develop eyes because he is a devotee - that is karma's reaction already fructified.

If you see, Devaki, being mother of God, had to undergo untold misery - losing 6 sons in front of her and the other 2 she missed the childhood completely. Devotee of lord accepts adversity as part of lord's plan and only prays for more and more service.

Haribol,

Your servant,

Radha Rasamayi DD

Replies

Jelu Iliov January 23, 2017 at 11:13pm

Is there such a thing like group's karma [ a bad karma of the clan, ethnic group, tribe...] It is obvious that soma quarrels and fights between some group of people are based on prejudice.
- 3ruf705dlznca > Jelu Iliov January 24, 2017 at 2:26am
  
  SB 11.23.42 — The brāhmaṇa said:
  
  These people are not the cause of my happiness and distress. Neither are the demigods, my own body, the planets, my karma, or time. Rather, it is the mind alone that causes happiness and distress and perpetuates the rotation of material life.
  
  SB 11.23.43 — The powerful mind actuates the functions of the material modes, from which evolve the different kinds of material activities in the modes of goodness, ignorance and passion. From the activities in each of these modes develop the corresponding statuses of life.
  
  SB 11.23.44 — Although present along with the struggling mind within the material body, the Supersoul is not endeavoring, because He is already endowed with transcendental enlightenment. Acting as my friend, He simply witnesses from His transcendental position. I, the infinitesimal spirit soul, on the other hand, have embraced this mind, which is the mirror reflecting the image of the material world. Thus I have become engaged in enjoying objects of desire and am entangled due to contact with the modes of nature.
  
  SB 11.23.45 — Charity, prescribed duties, observance of major and minor regulative principles, hearing from scripture, pious works and purifying vows all have as their final aim the subduing of the mind. Indeed, concentration of the mind on the Supreme is the highest yoga.
  
  SB 11.23.46 — If one’s mind is perfectly fixed and pacified, then tell me what need does one have to perform ritualistic charity and other pious rituals? And if one’s mind remains uncontrolled, lost in ignorance, then of what use are these engagements for him?
  
  SB 11.23.47 — All the senses have been under the control of the mind since time immemorial, and the mind himself never comes under the sway of any other. He is stronger than the strongest, and his godlike power is fearsome. Therefore, anyone who can bring the mind under control becomes the master of all the senses.
  
  SB 11.23.48 — Failing to conquer this irrepressible enemy, the mind, whose urges are intolerable and who torments the heart, many people are completely bewildered and create useless quarrel with others. Thus they conclude that other people are either their friends, their enemies or parties indifferent to them.
  
  SB 11.23.49 — Persons who identify with this body, which is simply the product of the material mind, are blinded in their intelligence, thinking in terms of “I” and “mine.” Because of their illusion of “this is I, but that is someone else,” they wander in endless darkness.
  
  SB 11.23.50 — If you say that these people are the cause of my happiness and distress, then where is the place of the soul in such a conception? This happiness and distress pertain not to the soul but to the interactions of material bodies. If someone bites his tongue with his own teeth, at whom can he become angry in his suffering?
  
  SB 11.23.51 — If you say that the demigods who rule the bodily senses cause suffering, still, how can such suffering apply to the spirit soul? This acting and being acted upon are merely interactions of the changeable senses and their presiding deities. When one limb of the body attacks another, with whom can the person in that body be angry?
  
  SB 11.23.52 — If the soul himself were the cause of happiness and distress, then we could not blame others, since happiness and distress would be simply the nature of the soul. According to this theory, nothing except the soul actually exists, and if we were to perceive something besides the soul, that would be illusion. Therefore, since happiness and distress do not actually exist in this concept, why become angry at oneself or others?
  
  SB 11.23.53 — And if we examine the hypothesis that the planets are the immediate cause of suffering and happiness, then also where is the relationship with the soul, who is eternal? After all, the effect of the planets applies only to things that have taken birth. Expert astrologers have moreover explained how the planets are only causing pain to each other. Therefore, since the living entity is distinct from these planets and from the material body, against whom should he vent his anger?
  
  SB 11.23.54 — If we assume that fruitive work is the cause of happiness and distress, we still are not dealing with the soul. The idea of material work arises when there is a spiritual actor who is conscious and a material body that undergoes the transformation of happiness and distress as a reaction to such work. Since the body has no life, it cannot be the actual recipient of happiness and distress, nor can the soul, who is ultimately completely spiritual and aloof from the material body. Since karma thus has no ultimate basis in either the body or the soul, at whom can one become angry?
  
  SB 11.23.55 — If we accept time as the cause of happiness and distress, that experience still cannot apply to the spirit soul, since time is a manifestation of the Lord’s spiritual potency and the living entities are also expansions of the Lord’s spiritual potency manifesting through time. Certainly a fire does not burn its own flames or sparks, nor does the cold harm its own snowflakes or hail. In fact, the spirit soul is transcendental and beyond the experience of material happiness and distress. At whom, therefore, should one become angry?
  
  SB 11.23.56 — The false ego gives shape to illusory material existence and thus experiences material happiness and distress. The spirit soul, however, is transcendental to material nature; he can never actually be affected by material happiness and distress in any place, under any circumstance or by the agency of any person. A person who understands this has nothing whatsoever to fear from the material creation.
E-Counselor

Radha Rasamayi DD January 23, 2017 at 2:28pm

Hare Krsna Prabhuji,

PAMHO.

What is pre ordained is what is called law of karma. It is dependent on our activity over lifetimes. When we surrender to Krsna, He takes over our karma. This is dependent on the level of our surrender.

Again, effects of karma can be in different stages - beej (seed stage), phala (fruit), and other stages in between. For eg;, a blind person will not develop eyes because he is a devotee - that is karma's reaction already fructified.

If you see, Devaki, being mother of God, had to undergo untold misery - losing 6 sons in front of her and the other 2 she missed the childhood completely. Devotee of lord accepts adversity as part of lord's plan and only prays for more and more service.

Haribol,

Your servant,

Radha Rasamayi DD
3ruf705dlznca January 16, 2017 at 6:55am

Karma is a part of material nature, therefore affects material body of living beings, but not transcendental soul.

Soul can not be ever touched by material energy, being just observer in the body.

Anyway, those who fully takes shelter under the lotus feet of Lord cross all obstacles in the life easily.

This reply was deleted.