Hare Krishna ,Dandvat Pranam To All Devotees ..In Vedas Mahamantra Starts With Ram , Then Krishna ..Is Krishna Supreme Or Ram ..?But In BG CH-10 Krishna Says Amongst Holder Of Vedic Literature,He Is Ram ..Similarily He Says He Is Shiv,Vishnu,Bhrama ..Than why do we pray Vishnu,Ram Not Shiva ..If Krishna is every where every thing is worshipable ..Than what is problem with worshiping demigod ..But Again In BG He Says To Worship Him Only ..Is there any crime in worshipping demigod ,as all are his extensionsSo What Actually His Message Is .. ?How can we only concentrate on Krishna rather than any other demigod ..The wind of MAYA is very strong , and total focus on krishna is very challenging ..Because in India , 95% people are Mayavaadi ..They Think They Are Born In India,They Know every thing about God ..I feel Problem With Indians Is That There Are Many God ..This is not the case with others ..BG is our base that represents us And People do not follow its guidelines,and make their childrens to follow something others ..How can i prevent from talks of these elements ..It Rises Questions of if and buts .. !!Please help ..
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जिनके स्मरण मात्र से यह संसार गोपद के समान अवस्था को प्राप्त हो जाता है, उसी को नित्य किशोर रहने वाली भक्ति कहा गया है जो भगवान श्री रामचंद्र के चरणों में आश्रय प्रदान करें।
From this it becomes clear that Kalisantaran Upanishad is dedicated to Lord Shri Ramchandra ji only.
Hare Krishna dear Devotees, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Krishna and Lord Rama are not different. Difference is in qualities.
Only Krishna in the Form of Krishna has His 64 main qualities. But all other Incarnations, Expansions have only 60 main.
Krishna:
1. One who Performs attractive pastimes
2. One who perfectly plays in His Flute
3. One who perfectly dances
4. One who is extremely beautiful (or this 4th part i forgot, please correct me!)
Your servant,
Okay, so your problem is that there are four qualities which are not in all the other incarnations of which most important is Lord Ramachandra. So with all humility I want to present an unbiased vedict of Shastras on your doubt ?
Your first said that the quality of Performing attractive pastimes is not there in Lord Rama. Here Valmiki Ramayana has something to say, (Valmiki Ramayana, 7.40.14) says
tava-buddhir-mahaabaaho veeryam-adbhutam-eva cha |
Translation : "O" Great armed Raama! You always wish the welfare and well being of all beings like brahma! "O Raama" You have the Supreme Maadhurya Rasa (sweetness and Charm) as well as the Supremely amazing prowess, valor and heroism! "
Translation : In Saket loka, there is exceedingly charming divine forest known as Ashoka Vana which is full of rasa and rasa alone. In Central Region of that forest, Sri Raama and his princess Janki play their various Sweet Pastimes with herds of hundreds of youthful and very attractive young damsels."
Translation:- "With a moon like face, Sri Rama is an extreme delight to look at. By his form, qualities and generosity, He steals the eyes and hearts of even Men!(What to speak of women? Rather it is a futile question! )
I hope that you have got the answer for the first question. I offer it to lotus feet of my Lord Ramachandra.
For the Answer of Second and Third question, There is a single verse in Valmiki Raamayana
gaandharve cha bhuvi shreshtho babhuva bharataagrajah |
Kalyana-abhijanas-sadhur deenatma mahaamatih ||
Translation:- "Sri Rama(the elder brother of Bharata) is the greatest exponent of arts of music and dance on the earth. Pious, sagacious, free from meanness, he is of noble descent."
However when Lord rama is foremost among all the arts of music. What to speak of flute, what is that instrument in the world which he cannot play with supreme efficiency. I am saying this statement as a loving exchange that Lord ramachandra even doesn't require any flute to create attraction towards him. Just by being seen, he steals the vision and heart of even men, what to speak of women!
In Hanumat Samhita Hanuman Ji Says that Lord Rama is an expert in Raasaleela and most compassionate.
I have not given these scriptural proofs to show my supremacy but to aware that this bhed-buddhi in different forms of Lord Hari is dangerous for our Sanatan Dharma! I also except Lord Krishna Is supreme Personality of Godhead. But in No sense, Lord Ramachandra is an expansion aur a kala of Lord Krishna. Rather we can see through many scriptures that Shri Ramachandra himself came as Lord Shri Krishna to present madhurya in Visible form. In Ramavatar, it was there but not in a visible form, but hidden form because for a different reason.
Whosoever is an ardent devotee of Lord Sri Ramachandra, please don't ever even motivate him to come to Krishna bhakti other wise we will be doing an apradh by seeing Lord Rama as inferior from Lord Krishna. Let him worship his ishta deva and then only Lord Krishna will be happy. If I have offended heart of some Vaishnava, I offer my humble obeissances unto the lotus feet of all Vaishnavas who are just like desire fulfilling tree.
regarding the authenticity of Vedas: just like a machine comes with a user manual, likewise Vedas is the user manual for human beings..
year by year scientist books keep on changing but Vedas have always remain unaltered and will always be...
and so many things which were written way back in Vedas are now being prooven right even "scientifically" be it how child is born, whether plants have life, how far is sun from us, number systems, ayurvedic cures.. all this was mentioned in Vedas already so these are just small proofs
and
i am not asking you to blindly trust anyone prabhu, if you have to accept something, first of all you should see the parampara( whether the people selling books belong to some parampara?, what do they preach? are they keeping god in the centre of everything? and most of all.. are they following those teachings themselves?? )
prabhu, here at ISKCON, we all follow the teachings properly and we belong to the Brahma Gaudiya samprada, here you must have seen so many sanyaasi who have literally dedicated their life for the service of people, see this website only.. where else in this world will you get so much content free of cost??
here the main aim of devotees is to connect the visitors to Krishna and that is why everything is free so that everyone can take benefit but some loopholes are everywhere, cz this is Kalyuga and due to that people blame the whole Iskcon society and that is not at all acceptable, will you blame the whole college if one teacher committed some crime?? the thing is that some people delibrately join Iskcon to harm its name and devotees here are so humble that they accept even them cz devotees feel that somehow those mayavadis may also get elevated but the reverse happens, they bring a bad name to the image of Iskcon.
well i would say these are also maya's trick, you observe the devotees you meet and then you yourself judge whether the service they are offering is selfless or full of self interest??
whatever we give at Iskcon, all the scriptures are authentic so you can have faith on them cz trust me, this is an express highway using which you can reach the final destination- goloka Vrindavan
have faith, Krishna will take care of everything.
Our accepting Krishna as God is not an assumption or a fanatical declaration. It is based on authoritative scriptures and the statements of great acaryas coming in disciplic succession.
The entire Vedic literature consisting of several Upanishads and Puranas are meant to address specific groups of people according to their consciousness levels. All of them do not belong to the same group. Primarily, they are classified into three: some of them are meant for people in the mode of goodness, some for people in the mode of passion, and others for those in the mode of ignorance. So, when there are differences of opinion among Puranas regarding the identity of God, it is not a contradiction; they are speaking with reference to a particular context and a group of people.
Example: In preliminary arithmetic, we are taught that two minus five does not exist, whereas in advanced mathematics, this is a perfectly valid expression. This is not to say that mathematicians are contradicting each other, but actually the concepts are revealed according to the capacity of the student. Similarly, the Vedas speak of many subjects some of which may appear contradictory, but they are meant for different levels of readers according to the material modes they are situated in.
Having said this, the risk of someone misinterpreting and twisting the meaning of the Vedas still remains nevertheless. Therefore, we need the guidance of the acaryas, spiritual teachers, who are connected to God in an unbroken disciplic succession. When we receive knowledge from them, we can be rest assured that there is no error.
The Bhagavad-gita is considered the essence of all Upanishads and the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the essence of all Puranas. Both these scriptures emphatically declare that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And these statements are confirmed by all the great spiritual teachers.
also:
Generally all incarnations come through Vishnu who is in charge of maintaining law and order within the universe. However, Krishna is not just another incarnation; He is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, the source of all incarnations including Vishnu. When He appears (only once in a kalpa, or a day of Lord Brahma), He continues to maintain the same protocol of coming through Vishnu. That’s the reason why people incorrectly call Him an incarnation of Vishnu.
Krishna in Vrindavan is like God at home, while Krishna, as Vishnu in various Vaikuntha planets, is like God at office. A person at home is most comfortable and relaxed and has intimate loving dealings with his family members, while at office he has very formal dealings with his associates. Similarly in Vrindavan, all the Vrajavasis have very intimate dealings with Krishna in sakhya (friendship), vatsalya (parental) or madhurya (conjugal) rasas. No one there is aware of Krishna’s supreme position as God that usually results in very formal and reverential dealings. In the Vaikuntha planets, however, all the residents are always aware of Vishnu’s supreme position as the controller and maintainer of the whole creation. Therefore, all their dealings with Him—including those of sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya are tinged with the feelings of awe and reverence.
So, from an impartial study we can see that Krishna’s pastimes are more sweet and enchanting than those of Vishnu. In that sense, Krishna is superior to Vishnu.
Krishna also has four additional unique qualities not found in Vishnu. Srila Prabhupada explains them in The Nectar of Devotion:
1.Lila-madhuri—He is the performer of wonderful varieties of pastimes (especially His childhood pastimes).
2.Bhakta-madhuri—He is surrounded by devotees endowed with wonderful love of Godhead.
3.Venu-madhuri—He can attract all living entities all over the universes by playing on His flute.
4.Rupa-madhuri—He has a wonderful excellence of beauty which cannot be rivaled anywhere in the creation.”
Brahma-samhita compares Krishna to a candle from which several other candles are lit. These candles are compared to Lord Vishnu and the various incarnations. Diparcir eva hi dasantaram abhyupetya . . . . (Bs. 5.46) Although all candles have the same potency, the original candle still retains its uniqueness. Krishna is like that original candle, the source of all the incarnations.
After describing the various incarnations of the Lord, Suta Gosvami quotes the following verse (Bhag. 1.3.28):
ete camas kala pumsah
krsnas tu bhagavan svayam
indrari vyakulam lokam
mrdayanti yuge yuge
“All the incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord but Lord Sri Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam also describes the pastime of Maha-vishnu stealing the sons of a brahmana in Dvaraka so that He could somehow get the darshan of Lord Krishna. This incident proves how Lord Krishna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead and Vishnu an expansion. You may read this pastime in the Krishna book, chapter eighty-nine, The Superexcellent Power of Krishna.
Hare Krishna,
i will like to share the knowledge i have, hope it helps
regarding the Demigod Worship: Demigod have been assigned some departments by Krishna, for example.. Lord Indra is responsible for rains, people approach Demigods for their specific desires, you will worship Indra directly if you want rains, but if you approcah Krishna himself, then all the demigods will get automatically satisfied..
but we should not approach Krishna for material desires else you will be called a karma kandi, your atmost desire should be to serve him as a humble servant, without any expectations in return else your senses will be attached to this world..
and regarding the "Rama" chanting.. both names are equivalent, you can chant "Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare", but it is prescribed to chant it the other way, so we should follow the instructions, Rama is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu and there are Vishnu who are the supreme most Energy of Lord Krishna.. and look after the world..
and regarding the "Multi God conflict :) ", then Krishna has Himself told in Bhagvad Gita that he is the suprememost.. and he told it to Arjuna cz Arjuna was his beloved friend.
P.S - senior devotees please correct me if i am wrong..
Replies
The first verse of Kali Santran Upanishad is:-
यद्दिव्यनाम स्मरतां संसारो गोष्पदायते ।
सा नव्यभक्तिर्भवति तद्रामपदमाश्रये ।।
जिनके स्मरण मात्र से यह संसार गोपद के समान अवस्था को प्राप्त हो जाता है, उसी को नित्य किशोर रहने वाली भक्ति कहा गया है जो भगवान श्री रामचंद्र के चरणों में आश्रय प्रदान करें।
From this it becomes clear that Kalisantaran Upanishad is dedicated to Lord Shri Ramchandra ji only.
Krishna and Lord Rama are not different. Difference is in qualities.
Only Krishna in the Form of Krishna has His 64 main qualities. But all other Incarnations, Expansions have only 60 main.
Krishna:
1. One who Performs attractive pastimes
2. One who perfectly plays in His Flute
3. One who perfectly dances
4. One who is extremely beautiful (or this 4th part i forgot, please correct me!)
Your servant,
Jai Jai Shri Sita Ram!!
Okay, so your problem is that there are four qualities which are not in all the other incarnations of which most important is Lord Ramachandra. So with all humility I want to present an unbiased vedict of Shastras on your doubt ?
Your first said that the quality of Performing attractive pastimes is not there in Lord Rama. Here Valmiki Ramayana has something to say, (Valmiki Ramayana, 7.40.14) says
tava-buddhir-mahaabaaho veeryam-adbhutam-eva cha |
maadhuryam paramam raama swayambhoriva nityadaa ||
Translation : "O" Great armed Raama! You always wish the welfare and well being of all beings like brahma! "O Raama" You have the Supreme Maadhurya Rasa (sweetness and Charm) as well as the Supremely amazing prowess, valor and heroism! "
Also (Shiva Samhita 20.13-14) says
tatrashoka vanam ramyam rasasthan hi kevalam |
tanmadhye janaki raamau nityam lila ratau sthitau ||
sahitau vanita yuthaih satairapi manoharaih |
Translation : In Saket loka, there is exceedingly charming divine forest known as Ashoka Vana which is full of rasa and rasa alone. In Central Region of that forest, Sri Raama and his princess Janki play their various Sweet Pastimes with herds of hundreds of youthful and very attractive young damsels."
Valmiki Ramayana (2.2.28-29) Says
chandrakantananam ramam-ateeva priyadarshanam |
raupaudaaryagunaih pumsaam dishti-chittap-harinam ||
Translation:- "With a moon like face, Sri Rama is an extreme delight to look at. By his form, qualities and generosity, He steals the eyes and hearts of even Men! (What to speak of women? Rather it is a futile question! )
I hope that you have got the answer for the first question. I offer it to lotus feet of my Lord Ramachandra.
For the Answer of Second and Third question, There is a single verse in Valmiki Raamayana
gaandharve cha bhuvi shreshtho babhuva bharataagrajah |
Kalyana-abhijanas-sadhur deenatma mahaamatih ||
Translation:- "Sri Rama(the elder brother of Bharata) is the greatest exponent of arts of music and dance on the earth. Pious, sagacious, free from meanness, he is of noble descent."
However when Lord rama is foremost among all the arts of music. What to speak of flute, what is that instrument in the world which he cannot play with supreme efficiency. I am saying this statement as a loving exchange that Lord ramachandra even doesn't require any flute to create attraction towards him. Just by being seen, he steals the vision and heart of even men, what to speak of women!
In Hanumat Samhita Hanuman Ji Says that Lord Rama is an expert in Raasaleela and most compassionate.
I have not given these scriptural proofs to show my supremacy but to aware that this bhed-buddhi in different forms of Lord Hari is dangerous for our Sanatan Dharma! I also except Lord Krishna Is supreme Personality of Godhead. But in No sense, Lord Ramachandra is an expansion aur a kala of Lord Krishna. Rather we can see through many scriptures that Shri Ramachandra himself came as Lord Shri Krishna to present madhurya in Visible form. In Ramavatar, it was there but not in a visible form, but hidden form because for a different reason.
Whosoever is an ardent devotee of Lord Sri Ramachandra, please don't ever even motivate him to come to Krishna bhakti other wise we will be doing an apradh by seeing Lord Rama as inferior from Lord Krishna. Let him worship his ishta deva and then only Lord Krishna will be happy. If I have offended heart of some Vaishnava, I offer my humble obeissances unto the lotus feet of all Vaishnavas who are just like desire fulfilling tree.
Siyavar Ramachandra Bhagwaan ki jai!!
Radhavar Krishnachandra Bhagwaan ki Jai!!
Bhaktvatsal Gaurchandra Bhagwaan ki Jai!!
regarding the authenticity of Vedas: just like a machine comes with a user manual, likewise Vedas is the user manual for human beings..
year by year scientist books keep on changing but Vedas have always remain unaltered and will always be...
and so many things which were written way back in Vedas are now being prooven right even "scientifically" be it how child is born, whether plants have life, how far is sun from us, number systems, ayurvedic cures.. all this was mentioned in Vedas already so these are just small proofs
and
i am not asking you to blindly trust anyone prabhu, if you have to accept something, first of all you should see the parampara( whether the people selling books belong to some parampara?, what do they preach? are they keeping god in the centre of everything? and most of all.. are they following those teachings themselves?? )
prabhu, here at ISKCON, we all follow the teachings properly and we belong to the Brahma Gaudiya samprada, here you must have seen so many sanyaasi who have literally dedicated their life for the service of people, see this website only.. where else in this world will you get so much content free of cost??
here the main aim of devotees is to connect the visitors to Krishna and that is why everything is free so that everyone can take benefit but some loopholes are everywhere, cz this is Kalyuga and due to that people blame the whole Iskcon society and that is not at all acceptable, will you blame the whole college if one teacher committed some crime?? the thing is that some people delibrately join Iskcon to harm its name and devotees here are so humble that they accept even them cz devotees feel that somehow those mayavadis may also get elevated but the reverse happens, they bring a bad name to the image of Iskcon.
well i would say these are also maya's trick, you observe the devotees you meet and then you yourself judge whether the service they are offering is selfless or full of self interest??
whatever we give at Iskcon, all the scriptures are authentic so you can have faith on them cz trust me, this is an express highway using which you can reach the final destination- goloka Vrindavan
have faith, Krishna will take care of everything.
hari bol..
The entire Vedic literature consisting of several Upanishads and Puranas are meant to address specific groups of people according to their consciousness levels. All of them do not belong to the same group. Primarily, they are classified into three: some of them are meant for people in the mode of goodness, some for people in the mode of passion, and others for those in the mode of ignorance. So, when there are differences of opinion among Puranas regarding the identity of God, it is not a contradiction; they are speaking with reference to a particular context and a group of people.
Example: In preliminary arithmetic, we are taught that two minus five does not exist, whereas in advanced mathematics, this is a perfectly valid expression. This is not to say that mathematicians are contradicting each other, but actually the concepts are revealed according to the capacity of the student. Similarly, the Vedas speak of many subjects some of which may appear contradictory, but they are meant for different levels of readers according to the material modes they are situated in.
Having said this, the risk of someone misinterpreting and twisting the meaning of the Vedas still remains nevertheless. Therefore, we need the guidance of the acaryas, spiritual teachers, who are connected to God in an unbroken disciplic succession. When we receive knowledge from them, we can be rest assured that there is no error.
The Bhagavad-gita is considered the essence of all Upanishads and the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the essence of all Puranas. Both these scriptures emphatically declare that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And these statements are confirmed by all the great spiritual teachers.
also:
Generally all incarnations come through Vishnu who is in charge of maintaining law and order within the universe. However, Krishna is not just another incarnation; He is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, the source of all incarnations including Vishnu. When He appears (only once in a kalpa, or a day of Lord Brahma), He continues to maintain the same protocol of coming through Vishnu. That’s the reason why people incorrectly call Him an incarnation of Vishnu.
So, from an impartial study we can see that Krishna’s pastimes are more sweet and enchanting than those of Vishnu. In that sense, Krishna is superior to Vishnu.
Krishna also has four additional unique qualities not found in Vishnu. Srila Prabhupada explains them in The Nectar of Devotion:
1.Lila-madhuri—He is the performer of wonderful varieties of pastimes (especially His childhood pastimes).
2.Bhakta-madhuri—He is surrounded by devotees endowed with wonderful love of Godhead.
3.Venu-madhuri—He can attract all living entities all over the universes by playing on His flute.
4.Rupa-madhuri—He has a wonderful excellence of beauty which cannot be rivaled anywhere in the creation.”
Brahma-samhita compares Krishna to a candle from which several other candles are lit. These candles are compared to Lord Vishnu and the various incarnations. Diparcir eva hi dasantaram abhyupetya . . . . (Bs. 5.46) Although all candles have the same potency, the original candle still retains its uniqueness. Krishna is like that original candle, the source of all the incarnations.
After describing the various incarnations of the Lord, Suta Gosvami quotes the following verse (Bhag. 1.3.28):
ete camas kala pumsah
krsnas tu bhagavan svayam
indrari vyakulam lokam
mrdayanti yuge yuge
“All the incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord but Lord Sri Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam also describes the pastime of Maha-vishnu stealing the sons of a brahmana in Dvaraka so that He could somehow get the darshan of Lord Krishna. This incident proves how Lord Krishna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead and Vishnu an expansion. You may read this pastime in the Krishna book, chapter eighty-nine, The Superexcellent Power of Krishna.
i will like to share the knowledge i have, hope it helps
regarding the Demigod Worship: Demigod have been assigned some departments by Krishna, for example.. Lord Indra is responsible for rains, people approach Demigods for their specific desires, you will worship Indra directly if you want rains, but if you approcah Krishna himself, then all the demigods will get automatically satisfied..
but we should not approach Krishna for material desires else you will be called a karma kandi, your atmost desire should be to serve him as a humble servant, without any expectations in return else your senses will be attached to this world..
and regarding the "Rama" chanting.. both names are equivalent, you can chant "Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare", but it is prescribed to chant it the other way, so we should follow the instructions, Rama is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu and there are Vishnu who are the supreme most Energy of Lord Krishna.. and look after the world..
and regarding the "Multi God conflict :) ", then Krishna has Himself told in Bhagvad Gita that he is the suprememost.. and he told it to Arjuna cz Arjuna was his beloved friend.
P.S - senior devotees please correct me if i am wrong..
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