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                  • Nitai Gauranga prabhuji,

                             prabhuji, i don't want to argue with you...i just want to say that every sampradaya or any sects whether it's shaktism,shaiviam or vaishnavism has some positive sides but also some dark sides...

                            if we start to count negative/dark side, then there is no limit of it but if we start to count positive/bright side, then we will always be happy and satisfied.......so i just want to say see positive side instead wasting time in dark side....

                          this kaliyuga is made only for naam-sankirtanam , and i know in this kaliyuga, hypocrisy would be more due to lack of knowledge but still i want to say spend your precious time in chanting whoever God/Goddess you believe and be always happy..

                        otherwise you'll always be unsatisfied and in distress

                  • Hare Krsna prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances,

                    You are right when you say Lord Shiva is not just a mere demigod. Of course he is not! He is an expansion (although not direct) of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is the most powerful, respectable and renounced personality (second to only the Supreme Personality of Godhead) in the universe. He is ever so merciful, that is why he is known as Ashutosh. His qualities and virtues are boundless, he is beautiful and his past times are super excellent. The Supreme Personality of Godhead possesses 64 qualities. Lord Shiva possesses 84% of these qualities, he is so closely matched with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Infact, the only difference between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Lord Shiva is the difference of milk and yoghurt (there is a subtle difference). The Supreme Personality of Godhead transforms himself into Lord Shiva to take care of material affair. Living entities like us can become Lord Brahma, but we can never become Lord Shiva, why? Simply because he is not just a normal "demigod". But having said all that, we have a duty to understand the mood of Lord Shiva.

                    You correctly mentioned that Lord Shiva did drank the hala hala poison to save the world. Please refer to SB 8.7.40 

                    When we see pictures of Lord Shiva, we see that he is either engrossed in meditation of he is chanting with beads. The question is, what is he meditating on? What is he chanting? Padma Purana states, sri rama rama rameti, rame rame manorame, sahasra nama tat tulyam rama rama varnane. He is worshipping his ishta-deva Sri Rama.

                    The subtle difference between milk and yoghurt is that there has been some sort of agent added to cause the transformation. SB 8.12.10 answers this. 

                    Please Lord Shiva, the greatest vaishnava, is the best way to invoke the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Refer to SB 4.24.76

                    We can see that Lord Shiva is tirelessly and lovingly serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this way. He is very humble, please don't take this humility away from him prabhu, this is his identity. We can see this humility cemented in his form as Hanuman. Lord Shiva's glories are endless. We may have different jagadguru's (spiritual master of the world) but Lord Shiva is the spiritual master of the entire universe.

                    Prabhu, I am not here to argue with you. I am simply stating the very little that I know. I know you possess much more knowledge and devotion than me, please feel free to correct me. Please don't take my reply in the wrong way.

                    Your servant,

                    Suparno

          • Ok , going by your logic, why did Srila Vyasadeva didn't declare Brhman as the supreme absolute truth in a single scripture, why he took a trouble of writing such a vast vedic literature declaring different personalities as supreme in different scriptures,which will keep them away from the absolute truth, can you kindly explain ?

          • The most hindu scriptures including those five you mentioned do not have anything to do with Srila Vyasadev, because he was not the author. But because in Kali Yuga people are not very intelligent, they accepted them as true scriptures of Veda Vyas. 

            Srimad Bhagavatam is the rare original surviving the long period of time, and It is most dear to the Vaiṣṇavas, because it describes the pure and supreme knowledge of the paramahaṁsas.

            From beginning to end, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is full of narrations that encourage renunciation of material life, as well as nectarean Lord Hari’s transcendental pastimes, which give ecstasy to the saintly devotees and demigods. This Bhāgavatam is the essence of all Vedānta philosophy because its subject matter is the Absolute Truth.

            • prabhuji,

                          your statement is not logical......do you know the history of india specially the past 1000 yrs, where millions of Indians died in fight with Muslims invaders for around 800 years and then rest 200 yrs with Christains...........and these 1000 years, both Muslims & Christains demolish and destroy our Holy temples whether it's of Mathura,Kashi,Haridwar, and famous Somnath Temple which was demolished many times plus all our granths,puarnas,vedas,samhitas,geetas,etc........and they got success to at the very great extent.... converting many hindhus into muslims, if hindus denied to convert, then they played the holi of blood with hindhus..........but even after our all 4 vedas,all 18 Puranas,samitas,gitas,etc were survived......and they are still today too....now prabhuji how can you say that all other purans are just crap except Bhagwatam... .......prabhuji,are u brainwashed ?? or u have accpeted the blind faith that "all purans and vedas are edited except Bhagwat Purana ??"...now how can you authorize you statement without any concrete proof or you are just saying,prabhuji ??

              Now listen my answer, prabhuji .....which is very unique & different.....

              on the question why our holy 4 vedas ,18 Purans , BhagwatGita,etc are survived ??

              the true & genuine answer from my mind and intellect is that "Vedyas Ji survived our all holy scriptures...as he is still living on Earth,and is immortal,,and he has all keen eyes to all the scriptures which he had written during the arrival of Kaliyuga....

              and I m saying so confidently that it's the same VedVyas Ji who was very worried about the people of kaliyuga that how can they get/perceive the knowledge and understanding of God,as mentioned in Puranas and in MahaBharata too....so of course ,it's his responsibility for today and for tomorrow too to save all the scriptures written by him till he does not leave the Earth...

              and he divided the true knowledge of vedas into 4 : Atharveda, Yajurveda , Samveda ,and RigVeda ; then he added Upanishads where all knowledgable stories resides ; then he added all 18 puranas having each lord supreme and then Mahabharata which includes Bhagwat Gita..

              but what we devotees are doing, we are degrading the values of puranas by tagging the tag of demigods...and in doing this we've forgot the real meaning of demigod....

              the real meaning of demigod is a god who can't provide salvation or moksha,

              but Durga/Kali/Hanumanji/Khatu Shyamji/MahaDeva/Ganesha/Vaishno Devi,etc 

              all these Gods can provide moksha easily as mentioned in the texts......now don't say that these are edited,fake or crap.....so and so......

              Krishna Conciousness doesn't mean that showing krishna supreme and degrading others..

              the real meaning of krishna consciousness is "seeing God everywhere and in everything"

              but what are we doing that " Sri Bhagwatam is only Supreme and only authentic....while others are just edited or fake.......is this the Krishna Consciousness which all devotees talking or discussing  about ??"

              if that's the only case then Shri VedVyasJi would write only SriBhagwatam... 

              in the end,i want to conclude say"IF TRUTH IS SOURTRY TO DRINK IT instead making excuses for not to drink it...."

              also "THINK BEYOND THINKING"

              but with the help of lord's great wisdom....

              •  

                Those who are offenders of Lord and His devotees even Lord Shiva can not save, what to talk about others :

                SB 9.4.56Lord Śiva said: My dear son, I, Lord Brahmā and the other demigods, who rotate within this universe under the misconception of our greatness, cannot exhibit any power to compete with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for innumerable universes and their inhabitants come into existence and are annihilated by the simple direction of the Lord.

                .

                SB 9.4.57-59Past, present and future are known to me [Lord Śiva], Sanat-kumāra, Nārada, the most revered Lord Brahmā, Kapila [the son of Devahūti], Apāntaratama [Lord Vyāsadeva], Devala, Yamarāja, Āsuri, Marīci and many saintly persons headed by him, as well as many others who have achieved perfection. Nonetheless, because we are covered by the illusory energy of the Lord, we cannot understand how expansive that illusory energy is. You should simply approach that Supreme Personality of Godhead to get relief, for this Sudarśana cakra is intolerable even to us. Go to Lord Viṣṇu. He will certainly be kind enough to bestow all good fortune upon you.

                .

                .

                One should carefully choose the words when talking to Vaishnavas, especially that Lord Shiva and other demigods are  equal  to Lord Vishnu. Otherwise, one may not be happy in this life or the next. 

                • I never used the line Supreme Personality of Godhead for Shiva.....

                  I used only for Krishna...........u can check it above.....

                  but you need to understand the big difference between Supreme ParaBrahman and Supreme Personality of Godhead....which is the main question..and from which all the devotees are far-off..

                  Lord Shiva has all 3 Gunas, and these 3 are in every human being living on earth ..but Krishna is fulfilled with SatoGuna which are Supreme than 2 others Gunas......and this 1 Guna contains so many great qualities which is undescribable by anybody... that's why Sages who believed in dhyan of Parabrahman,but after seeing that Parabrahman in the form of Lord Rama, they forgot about dhyan and wanted to hug Lord Rama,and they got oppurtunity in the form of Gopis in Dwaparyuga...therefore Rama or Krishna is really the Supreme Personality of Godhead...

                  and Lord Shiva encourages everyone to follow Him more than Himself...whether He comes in the form of Hanumanji or in the form of Gopi..

                  but when you ISKCON vaishnavis describe that Supreme Almighty just a demigod,or call him 'tamsi' or even 'rascal' without understanding and knowing Him completely, this then hurts and angers me about what kind of ISKCON philosophy is this which is based on who is God and who is DemiGod....this shows your lack of knowledge to understand God completely... 

                  • First Up all, increase your knowledge and correct yourself.....

                    All 33 million God & Goddess are called "Deva" and "Devi"

                    for example :  Radha,Durga,Saraswati,Lakshmi are all called "Devi" 

                    now, i ask you simple question, do we call these goddess Bhagwan, no we call them  "Devi" which in english we call "Goddess"

                    now, come about "Deva" : Brahma,Vishnu,Mahesh,Indra,Surya,Chandra, Ganesh are all called "Deva" which in english are called "God"or "Bhagwan"

                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    And now MahaDeva means "who is Supreme than all Deva"....which means....God of all Gods...i.e....Devo ke Deva- MahaDeva

                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    that's the real meaning......which you perhaps don't know!!

                  • Mr VJ Singh,

                    Lord Shiva is one of the mahajanas i.e. Greatest Vaishnava.He is above all (humans,devas and other species).He is MahaDeva the word 'Deva' itself indicates the he is not equal to Lord Vishnu,But the word Maha indicates he is greatest of all devas.He is a tamo guna expansion of vishnu.The previous sentence does not mean Lord Shiva is in tamo guna,He controlls tamo guna.

                    1.You say that other puranas does not say shiva as a vaishnava.

                             In padma purana It is mentioned that In case contradiction occurs between puranas we are supposed to follow the views of satwa purana.

                     2.It is not similar to western religions,

                               Vaishnavism never says that you will go to hell if you dont worship krishna,It just says that you cant achieve highest goal(Vaikunta Loka) if you dont worship Vishnu,but You may go to any Sub-spiritual planets like MaheshwarDham,Formless Brahman,Material Worlds(Bhu,Bhuv,Swarg,Jan,Mahar,Tapo,Sathya) where you can have higher sence of enjoyment and association with great personalities like Lord Siva,Mata Durga,Lord Brahma.

                    3.ISKCON strictly follows the acharyas Word to Word.All vaishnava acharyas(Sripad Ramanuja,Sripad Madhwa,Sripad Nibarkara,Sripad Vishnuswami,Sripad Chaitanya,Sri Ragavendra,Sri Vedantha desika,Sri Vallabacharya) instructed that Vishnu is superior to other devas.

                    4.Lord Vishnu is not in satwa guna,He is beyond all three gunas,Only his Guna avatara of Kshirodagasai Vishnu controlls satwa guna.Siilarly Shiva who is in satwa guna controlls tamo guna.

                    5.In this forum people post questions to get the vaishnava view of that question.Youare posting other phillosophy's views.

                    6.If you are not convinced about the supremacy of vishnu,You must visit nearest ISKCON temple and discuss with them.You must not give your own views about them in this fourm.

                    7.You say the real meaning of sanskrit verses are interpeted wrongly in english translation of vedabase,for your info,The word Atma has 5+ meanings in  standard sanskrit  dictionary.All the  translation strictly corresponds to one of the valid interpretation according to sanskrit dictionary.

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