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Just some questions I need answering. :)

Posted by Ernesto Chongtham on July 19, 2012 at 7:04am in Karma

Hare Krishna, please accept my humble obeisances.

I have some questions which have been the cause of my doubt over the years as an aspiring Krishna devotee.

Why are we here in the material world? Was there a time before we were in the material world and was in union with God?
How did we ever fell down? Or were we here for all eternity without an initial karmic cause? If that is so what launch us to be here in the first place? It is said that the kingdom of God is infallible and if we were there and fell down doesn't that contradict its characterization? It is confusing and sometimes makes everything seem so meaningless.

Why the trouble to put us through where we are and all the ordeals if the goal is to reach the Godhead because the place we are in now is at odds against Godhead.

I am not trying to nail in any doubt in the minds of practicing devotees here. Some of you may even have an answer to my question for you ought to know much more than me who is new to Krishna Consciousness. I thought I have to clear my doubt if I want to continue unhindered, with my mind fixated on the Lotus Feet of Lord Krishna. But having a questioning mind is helpful since it becomes the means to unflinching conviction.


Thank you and Hare Krishna.

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              • Ernesto Chongtham > Mohini Madhavi July 19, 2012 at 7:50pm

                My humble obeisances, Mataji,

                Thank you so much for sharing your insightful knowledge which cast away the particular doubt I had. You have been very helpful to me. Thank you again. :)

                Your Servant,
                EC

      • Volunteer
        rakesh roshan > Mohini Madhavi July 19, 2012 at 2:31pm

        Humble obeisances mataji

        m really sorry but difficult to hear information contradictory to what very senior people have said and are following...

        YOU ARE RIGHT REGARDING AVOIDING THIS SUBJECT, cuz it does not matter .. THE PURPOSE OF LIFE IS NOT THIS..

         but it is difficult cuz I GUESS TEMPLE PRESIDENT OF ONE OF THE STRONGEST TEMPLES IN INDIA will not TELL FALSE THINGS TO US.. I HAVE HEARD SO MANY TIMES FROM HIM AND FROM MY COUNSELOR ABOUT THIS..

        Regarding GOPA KUMARA PASTIME, KRSNA WAS EXPLAINING TO HIM THAT HE WAS TRYING TO ENJOY THIS MATERIAL WORLD AND HENCE HE DID NOT COME HERE AS A PURE DEVOTEE TO PERFORM PASTIMES..

        IT IS TRUE THAT WE ARE NOT VERY TINY SOULS AND WE BECOME BIG IN SPIRITUAL WORLD AND OUR FORMS CAN CHANGE FOR SURE, THIS I HAVE HEARD IN LECTURE OF HH BHAKTI VIGHNA VINASHAK NARSIMHA SWAMY MAHRAJ...

        PLZ CAN YOU TELL WHERE IT IS WRITTEN IN CC THAT " LORD CHAITANYA FILLED THIS UNIVERSE WITH SOULS FROM BRAHMAJYOTI"

        YES , it might be written in JAIVA DHARMA ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN TO SAY that they were CREATED THERE... WE NEED TO READ IN COMPLETELY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS..

        I AGAIN humbly beg for FORGIVENESS IF M HURTING u mataji.. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSES..

        YS

        • Volunteer
          rakesh roshan > rakesh roshan July 19, 2012 at 2:51pm

          Please forgive me if my words look angry or like that.. m really sorry... I don't intend to prove my point or things like that... I 2 wish to know the right information if it is going to help me and others in Krsna consciousness. I really don't wish to displease anyone.. Please forgive me..

      • Volunteer
        Mohini Madhavi > Mohini Madhavi July 19, 2012 at 2:30pm

        in the reality it is illllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll subject.

        For example, while drowning in the mad ocean we cry for help and when help comes do we stop and ask the reasons we felt into the ocean????????????????????????? Is there time for that???????????????????????????

        And is the meaning in that???????????????????????????????????????

        Lord Chaitania prays "Oh, Lord it so happened that felt to this ocean and death." Now what can i do??? You just help to me and take me out from it.

        Srila Rupa Goswami prays:

        "I am drowning in the painful, fathomless whirlpool of repeated birth and death. O Lord, O Friend of the shelter-less, O effulgent moon of mercy, please, this one time, quickly extend Your hand to save me." - Sri Rupa Goswami, Sri Padyavali, 61

        We do not have time and enough intelligence to understand WHY we are here. Might be unlimited reasons for that. 

        But there is one solution which is "crying for help".

        Again is there any alternative for Krishna Consciousness? Is there any alternative for the nectarine Holy Names????????????????? No!

        No food, no sex, no drug, no movie, no book, no novel, no no no ...anything can be the source of happiness rather than the Holy Names. :(

        Your servant,

  • Vraja Jana Ranjana Das July 19, 2012 at 1:25pm

    SARWA DHRAMAN PARITJYA ..MAMEKAM SHARNAM VRIJ..

    AHAM TWA SARWA PAPEBHYO... MOKSHSYAMI MA SUCHA....

  • Volunteer
    Mohini Madhavi July 19, 2012 at 12:37pm

    It is confusing and sometimes makes everything seem so meaningless.

    Yes, if we accept that there is no meaning in material life then it is good. But if we think that there is no meaning in chanting then we need association of sincere Devotees. 

    We need to serve to Devotees.

    In his song Bhaktivinod Thakur prays: "Krishna se tomara ohe Vaishnava Thakura!!!" - "Krishna is Yours oh Vaishnava Thakur..." You can only give to me Him. 

    Because of that association is very important.

    Also in such like situations, times when there is no taste for the Holy Names and no faith to the Deities...no faith at all i just keep tolerance. And use my intelligence. When there is taste and feelings it is good we accept Krishna as God but when there is no feelings and taste we loose faith. In that moment we have to use our intelligence.

    And ask to ourselves:

    IS THERE ALTERNATIVE FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS???????????? 

    If not Krishna Consciousness what will i do? Can i now live without chanting????? Can i now enjoy my DEAD senses??????????? NO! 

    ------------

    In this way please do not think much about falling down again! Krishna and Srila Prabhupada promised that we won't fall and that is finished. Now our duty is how to achieve love for Krishna. 

    Please hear lectures of Srila Prabhupada and other Gurus of ISKCON.

    Srila Prabhupada: http://audio.iskcondesiretree.info/index.php?q=f&f=%2F01_-_His_...

    Read very scientific and powerful books of HH Suhotra Swami http://ebooks.iskcondesiretree.info/index.php?q=f&f=%2Fpdf%2FHi...

    Also HH Sivaram Swami very expertly explains Tattva. His lectures are very scientific: http://audio.iskcondesiretree.info/index.php?q=f&f=%2F02_-_ISKC...

    Your servant,

    • Ernesto Chongtham > Mohini Madhavi July 19, 2012 at 12:45pm

      Hare Krishna mataji. Please accept my humble obeisances.

      Thank you very much Bhaktim Maral. You have been very helpful. It was an eye opener for me. I never thought it that way about how we came to be conditioned. I really appreciate you taking time to explain these things to me. I owe you a debt of gratitude. Now I feel at ease with the Lord and now some of the things relevant is getting clearer to me.
      Thank you again.

      Your servant, 

      Ernesto Chongtham.

  • Volunteer
    Mohini Madhavi July 19, 2012 at 12:25pm

    Hare Krishna Ernesto Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

    This subject was already discussed many times for example in the next discussion:

    http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/forum/topics/2103886:Topic:11298

    From there i liked very much the answer of Salvadores Prabhu. He writes:

    "Yes, the verse you quote says that we have fallen from the spiritual realm, but it does not specify that we were in Goloka Vrndavan with Radha and Krsna, that is just our idea that we derive from such verse. Actually there is not any verse in all the Vedic literature that clearly says we were with Radha and Krsna in Goloka Vrndavan. All the previous acarya from Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya never said that nor Srila Prabhupada has ever said that.


    He never wrote that in any of his books. He uses many times words such as “back to Godhead” or “our constitutional position” etc… Those statementes can make us think that, but that does not mean at all that we were in Goloka and we fall from that place.
    I know it is hard to accept at first. Just like a child, when he becomes a little boy or girl may ask to the parents how do we take birth? And genereally parents say that we were brought by a stork or babies are found under a couliflower because the boy is too young to understand what actually took place. Simirarly Srila Prabhupada behave in the same way with his young children. When the children grow up however the can know, if you really want to know the truth, please read Jaiva Dharma, written by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur one of the most prominent previous acarya of Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya. From that book you will read that yes, we have fallen from the spiritual world but from the marginal position which is called Tatastha.
    Tatastha position is a place between the spiritual world and material world like the shore, it is a very narrow line between the sea and the land, sometimes that line is covered by the sea and sometimes not. Tha land is compared to the spiritual world and the sea to the material world. We come from that place:
    jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasa
    krsnera tatastha sakti ‘bhedabheda prakasa

    The costitutional nature of the jiva is to be an eternal servant of Sri krsna. He is the marginal potency of Krsna and is a manifastationsimultaneously one with Him, and differente from Him.
    C.C. Madhiya 20.108

    We have come from tatastha-sakti, from a manifestation of Baladeva Prabhu called Karanabdisayi Visnu, who is situated on the marginal line, in the Karanabdhi (Causal Ocean). The jivas are not coming to this world from Goloka Vrndavana, nor are they coming from Vaikuntha. They are coming form the marginal line, from the glance of Karanabdhisayi Visnu. Among them, those who look towards Vaikuntha are liberated, and they go there at once without delay. Conversely, those who look toward this world will come here.

    Jivas are independent because Krsna has made them so. This independence is like a special jewel, and the jivas can use it properly or misuse it. If they using it well, they will quickly go towards Vaikuntha, and if they misuse it they will have to suffer.

    Here is an example. If you have a sharp sword or knife and you drop some very small and round mustard seeds on it so that they falls in the middle of the sword, some will fall over to one side and some will fall to the other. The jiva has got some independence to go here or there. This is not the fault of Krsna, but rather it is their independence to look here and there. If they look towards Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana, Yogamaya will at once help them and they will go there. On the other hand, those who look towards the material world will be attracted by Mahamaya. Krsna is not at fault here."

    In this way please do not worry that soul will fall from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan. No. Sometimes Krishna's associates descend to material world in order to preach and bring conditioned souls to Vaikuntha, and it is not fall down.

    For example, when Lord Chaitania appeared His associates like Srimati Radharani. Sachi Mata, Vasudev Datta, Narada Muni, ....many more Devotees accompanied Him.

    ---------

    We have just to trust to Krishna. And in the 8 versed Shikshashtakam Lord Chaitania says "oh Lord, You can embrace me or do whatever You need, i am Your eternal servant...."

    This is the state of unconditional, pure love. To be fully surrendered to the will of our beloved Lord.

    Before Lord Chaitania says that He does not desire any high birth, followers ...or even liberation but birth after birth to serve to the lotus feet of His Devotees and to Him.

    This is love.

    Your servant,  

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