Hare Krishna to All,
I am a little bit into Krishna consciousness(KC), you can say half of the first step itself.
A question I want to ask here is, is it compulsory to attend KC programs, aartis, poojas, trips “physically”?
Sometimes my parents ask me to visit the temple, to attend programs and spiritual trips. But somehow I don’t feel comfortable to attend programs, I don’t know why?. And even if I attend it , I feel like I am faking it. I can’t feel that satisfaction and peace.
Instead of that I am much more comfortable in reading KC books all alone. I have read quite few smaller books initially, then I read Bhagavad-Gita. Now I am reading “Perfect questions Perfect answers”. KC related reading gives me more inner satisfaction and I feel peace in heart.
So, what should I do? Which way should I follow?
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One more thing, you may find my language little harsh and foul. I am very much frustrated with situation, so please excuse me if I offend anybody in anyway.
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Replies
100% agree here. Serving the devotees and getting their mercy is more powerful than Krsna and His names (which is actually quite beautiful when you think about it- the most powerful person in the entire universe, the supreme creator will happily bow down to his devotees out of love). Jagai and Madhai are in my opinion a good example. I believe it was Jagai who stopped Madhai from throwing another pot at Lord Nityananda Prabhu, which is indirect service. And thus Jagai was blessed by Lord Nityananda and saved from the wrath of Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu! Both of them advanced spiritually and this is because of Lord Nityananda's persistence in sharing the holy names of the Lord!
All Glories to Sri Nityananda Rama and All Glories to Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu!!!
Haribol!!
Thank you all for your guidance.. I will think about it.. and If I feel to discuss more or feel like asking for more guidance i will contact you.
Thanks all again..
I have some other queries also, may be of different flavor .. I am opening another discussion .. please bless me with ur guidance.
Do what feels right to you.. if you don't feel comfortable with going to the programs, then don't, but realize that it will help you further in your endeavor to Krishna (side note: are you specifically talking about programs or do you feel the same with going to the temple and spiritual trips etc.)
Srila Prabhupada's books are there to guide us, but at the same time we should take up the responsibility to extend and apply that guidance in whatever way possible.
Bhagavad Gita 10.9
The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me.
END
The point of these programs is to get together and worship Krsna together. Krsna can always hear you and see you, but there is an extent to how helpful being "alone" can be. I mean I'm also like that. At times I wonder why should i go to the temple when i have my own deities at home. My dad tells me that even though Krsna is the same at home and at the temple, he is also different. So by going to see Krsna at the temple you are pleasing him even more, mainly because of devotee association and sankirtana and just getting a different viewpoint on a particular verse. There are hundreds of verses in Gita, and for each verse Prabhupada gives a very nice translation. But for each of these translations it takes hundreds of reads to grasp a better understanding. By attending programs, fellow devotees can help you understand these verses and help you keep it in mind and "give you tips and tricks" to becoming fully KC.
In the end, try to expand yourself to attending these programs or even better, make programs at home. Since you feel peaceful while reading, definitely continue that, but begin to apply that too. In all of Prabhupada's books he makes it clear that we should preach and share this knowledge with everyone, and we do this by attending these programs and the temple, book distribution, harinama sankirtana, festival programs, etc.
Krsna is all merciful, he is all kind, and he is all forgiving. If you go to these programs and you feel like you are faking it, you're gonna get a check plus next to "Sunil Chavan - attends programs" on Krsna big check list because you went. Krsna doesn't care if you hate it or you regret it or even if you feel like you are faking it. You went to a KC program, which means you are one step closer to Krsna. That's how Krsna works. The demoness Putana wanted to kill Krsna, but she had a desire to breastfeed him. Krsna happily accepted that desire and she got liberated. There are so many different examples in Krsna Leela that show this. Sudhama, the poor brahmin friend of Krsna, was too embarrassed to go before Krsna (seeing him as a big king and all), but the moment Krsna got wind that Sudhama was in Dwarka, he ran out of his palace and embraced Sudhama. In exchange for a handful of uncooked rice, Krsna gave him everything! It's the thought that counts, nothing else.
So in the end, I would highly suggest you to just go to these programs because there is a wealth of information to be received, and you can see Radha Krsna being nicely worshiped and you can join in with the sankirtana. All excellent ways to enhance your service to Radha Krsna and their servants.
I'll end with this verses (10.10)
To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.
END
Hare Krsna
perfect answer .mataji i liked it a lot
Thanks for such nice reply. I ll think about it.
Thanks again
Hare Krishna dear Devotees, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thank You Radhe Prabhuji for such a nice reply and Sunil Prabhuji for raising this important issue!
Not being scrubbed into something the stone itself won't get smooth.
All those un smooth covering represents our bad qualities coming our from our BOLD false ego.
When we associate with Devotees we will remove those qualities. How?
Usually Krishna puts us in that environment where it is best for us.
We have to understand that according to the stage of our consciousness we will get similar association. Which means be with people who also have bold false ego - equal with ours.
So because of that life becomes difficult. And we think that i will be happy if i just avoid it and be alone. But it does not happen so. As like if unpolished stone does not get polished by itself.
But our goal should be to see our bad qualities coming out from our false ego and remove them not just close our eyes to them by keeping ourselves far from other "stones".
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One more thing very important thing!
As we know every Demigod, expansions of Krishna have Their own vehicles. As like Lord Brahma - a swan. Lord Shiva - Buffalo, Lord Vishnu Garuda....
In this way the Holy Names are also came on Their vehicle. And in 1960's crossed the Atlantic ocean to USA and spread all over world.
And what is Their vehicle?
The HEART OF A DEVOTEE.
Srila Prabhupada carried Them on his heart and distributed to many hearts. Then they came to India and to other places in whole world.
So please, Sunil Prabhu, understand that without Devotees our life is useless. We will be kept with our false ego.
Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur sings: "I will become a dog of a Devotee and will sleep in the doorway of him. And when he eats something i will take his remnants and enjoy that with tears in eyes, in ecstasy...."
Your servant,
what a beautiful explanation ...i liked the example of the pebbles
Hare Krishna Mataji,
Thanks for such a nice explanation.
But, I must tell you that there are some reasons (materialistic of course) why I have become like that. I know some of you must have guessed that also. I have some physical problem which troubles me in walking, not a such big problem but it kept me haunted for all my life.
I know it's not unique, everyone have either physical or psychological problems and everyone has to deal with it. I can understand it now but the earlier situation was not like this. I have gone through such pain and stress that made me an atheist, Yes, I used to HATE god. Really I mean that I used hate Him. The only thing that I used to know that if someone can enjoy for putting someone in so much pain, how he can be a GOD.He supposed to be kind , isn’t it?. I pleaded, I begged but he never answered. Those stressful days never fade away. I have been in this kind of stress for such long time that, I have turned into a person like this.
I don’t like to socialize, I never attended a single family function since may be last 10 years. I hate when people look at me and give a look like something wicked they saw. Children are innocent, I can understand but sometime do comment something that just breaks your heart, and it keeps on ringing your ears for a long time. There are hundreds of other experiences, one cannot imagine how bad they can be. Please don’t ask me about it, those days still haunts me.
I know, what people will advice, I have received it thousand times earlier. “You are not body, it is just a wrapper, you are a soul inside”. Heck with that, in real life who really care how good soul you are. Everyone gives free advice on this until and unless that person is not going to part of your life. Things will flip in seconds when same person wants to enter into your life. I am not saying this without experience, I had this experience with some KC devotees also.
So, it is good in concept, not really works in practical life.
Mataji also said one need to scrubbed to be shiny and smooth, but I am not left any power any more to go through that scrubbing. I just can’t. It’s enough, I have spent my whole life in pain, I can't take this scrubbing more.
I don’t know whether it is logically correct reply or not, I felt to put my heart here , so I did it. If I have used any foul language and if I have offended someone then please excuse me.
Thanks,
Sunil
Let me ask you one question (just to think about, not really answer, rhetorical i guess) prabhuji, before I go into explanation.
Why did you post on these forums your particular question?
Krsna works in very strange ways. Heck, I used to be in your position where I got glasses and everyday I would ask Krsna for a "new pair of eyes" and to get rid of these glasses... I put the blame on Krsna, as I thought Krsna was responsible. But If we read what Srila Prabhupada wrote in all his books, he states that Krsna is never responsible, we are responsible for our own actions. That is how Karma works and that is why the material world exists. We, as living entities, who have fallen from service to Krsna are being given a chance to enjoy as we wish, but since we never achieve that level of happiness so we get frustrated and we try different things and go into different bodies.
And this makes perfect sense. Say you had a perfect cake, for example. It was soft and moist the frosting on top was just right, not too sticky, the flavor was phenomenal, etc.
Then say the store you got it from or the chef that made it stopped doing it. All other cakes seems useless, nothing seems to be working. Then you get the recipe and try to make it, but it never works. You keep trying, you keep persisting and one day you get that flavor. That's the goal in life. We all have tasted that cake of Krishna Service. And we have all fallen to this material world for enjoyment. Some of us, after a period of time, get fortunate enough to have another taste of that divine cake, and it drives us crazy to achieve it. We approach the chef, Krsna, to help guide us and he in turn shows us the path through his representatives, his devotees. We keep trying to attain that highest perfection, and as time goes on we get better and better until one day we can remake that cake exactly and love for Krsna has reached the highest perfection.
So the point is- we have free will, we have karma, and we are responsible for our actions. Your actions, in posting to these forums, is good action. It shows you are motivated, and I want to say deep down you do have an interest to go to these programs.
I'll tell you another funny story about my glasses. So one day, I went to the store to shop right. And as i was picking my items, this lady and this little were in that same aisle. That little looked right at me and started pointing at me. I don't remember the entire story, but I do understand that judgmental look. But the important thing to remember Prabhu, is this is the material world and these types of things happen. So the question is then- how do we turn all these bad experiences we have in the material world, to good ones? The answer is the same exact way we turn any material experience to spiritual experience. We add in some Krishna Consciousness. If we go to the supermarket and we buy some food, it's a material activity. But if we go to the supermarket and we buy some food FOR KRSNA, it's a spiritual activity. The solution is easy, but implementing it is hard.
Now, I am not entirely sure what you mean when things will flip in seconds when the same person wants to enter into your life, so I don't want to say anything off topic or without full knowledge, but in terms of that quote, it's good advice, because it ties in with everything else -- Karma + our free will = our responsibility. But I don't want to say anything else because i'm not entirely sure here.
To end, we have to realize one thing- Krsna is never to be blamed for our actions. It's like me blaming you for my eyesight and you blaming me for your physical problem. It makes no sense... It is true that Krsna can cure us in an instant, but if he does this for us, what about the rest of the other devotees that suffer from pains, and what about his other children who suffer too. It defeats the existence of the material realm. The argument you mentioned about how God is supposed to be kind is always one of "those" arguments used to define God and the existence of God (haha I had to write an essay on it), but it can't be used to define God. Why? Becuase we begin to think that God is our servant, so wherever we go, God should arrange for a nice place to live far from him. When it's complete opposite. If we run away from home, would our parents be silly enough to pay for all the expenses- hotel, food, etc. No you wanted to run away, they are going to let you. They still want you to come back though, so they keep calling you, trying to search for you, etc. So Krsna is all kind, and all merciful, but kindness also has levels and different aspects. The kindness some people may think is different from others think. But Krsna shows his kindness by sending his representatives or appearing in this material world.
Bhagavad Gita: 4.7-4.8
Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion -- at that time I descend Myself
To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.
This is supreme kindness.
Now to address your final thought about scrubbing, there are some beautiful verses, but there in a very nice one that applies here.
tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
"One can chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking himself lower than the straw in the street. One should be more tolerant than the tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and ready to offer all respects to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly." (Śikṣāṣṭaka 3)
Dravida Prabhu (editor for many of the BBT books, and an excellent poet) came up with this poetic translation that is very beautiful and easy to remember. I may not have the lyrics word for word (since I got it from a recording but it might it)
More tolerant, more potent
more humble than a blade of grass, as tolerant as a tree.
To think all praise belongs to others, none belongs to me
Such qualities attract the lord to bless one with the power
to chant his name incessantly until the final hour!!
END
You may not have enough power for scrubbing, but Krsna has unlimited power... there is this particular line that I cannot remember but it goes something like this:
japo krsna [something krsna.. something krna]... karo krsna seva
I am not getting anywhere with google, but if any fellow devotees recognize this please post it, I really want to know! Anyway, the point is to just surrender to Krsna. He will help you out, he'll give you everything!
Before I end this, I'd like to go back to that original question I asked- Why did you post this particular question in this particular forum and why did you put your heart in that above reply?
The answer, it seems to me, is that you are taking more interest in Krsna and Krsna is also helping you out.
again Gita 10.9 help understand this:
To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.
END
You serve Krsna by reading about Krsna, but that's not enough to go to Krsna. You have to do other things, and I think you realize this and that is why you have posted.
Bhagavad Gita verses 18.65-66 say:
Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.
END
There are so many devotees who suffer from so many pains. Bhakti Tirtha Maharaja who passed away a few years ago had cancer I think, but why did Krsna not take away the pain of that sannyasi? Because he probably had some sins left, and Krsna wanted to take him back. Prabhupada, such a highly elevated soul and a direct representative of Krsna, had such horrible pains before he passed away. I think the condition was that there was no fat before the bone and the skin (or something) and that pain is horrid, yet he always chanted Krsna's name and he tried in whatever way to serve Krsna. So it's all Krsna's mercy in the end. I don't blame Him anymore for my eyes, but rather I'm glad I have blurry vision. That way I can do 2 things- I can visualize with my mind how Krsna looks today and I can ignore everything else. So if we look on the positive side of things with attachment to Krsna, it helps reduce our pains because we "fill" in those "gaps" with love for Krsna, the balm that heals us spiritually.
Now prabhu, please forgive me if I stepped out of line anywhere, it was most definitely not my motive. Hare Krsna!!
oh my. I did edit that last post to add a few things but let me add it it here (it's positioned right above that last sentence.
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In the end, does it matter who thinks what? Our bodies and our statements are all temporary so why take that to heart because it's always going to happen. I stay on the computer a lot and my dad just recently told me that I shouldn't stay on the computer a lot and he left by saying may Krsna do some good to you. He doesn't know that i spend hours doing homework and he doesn't know that I take time out to chat and post here. But I don't argue, because I don't see the point. I thought about what he said heavily because it hurt... but the next morning I had a different thought. I raised my hands in the air and shouted Haribol!!! and with that I did my best to let it all out. It worked 99.9%! I thought about it once or twice that same day, but not again, I just "forgot" about it. So we will have to live through the judgmental opinions of others, but what can we do.
The best thing to do is just involve Krsna in everything, remember him constantly, and just serve him. Before you eat, chant Hare Krsna, and before you sleep, Haribol. When you wake up chant Govinda! Govinda!! and when you see Krsna, Radhe! Radhe!
My Psychology teacher once told us that we have pain blockers in our body. The only time we feel pain is when we think about it. But if we think about something different, we don't feel the pain, so just think what can thinking of Krsna do to us! It's ananda prabhuji, eternal bliss. And that's the glory of it. To get this ananda is not an easy thing, it takes so much effort and so much work, but if you are willing to go for it, Krsna himself will give you strength because you're never alone. In your heart exists Paramatma, Krsna, and He is always there with us, for us.
Devotees give the example (I think it's from the Vedas) of two birds on a tree. One bird is eating all the fruits happily, and the other bird is just watching and smiling. When the first bird moves to another tree, the other bird follows. Krsna is always with us, but we need to realize this and show Krsna that we want to serve him. The moment we do, he helps us out!
Again Prabhu, please forgive me for any offenses. I truly wish you the very best in KC, and please Prabhu, never stop thinking about Krsna :)
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