Hare Krishna dear devotees,
The soul was manifested from the cit shakti of Krishna. However in Bhagavata Gita it is clearly stated that the soul has always been into existence. How can it be possible that the soul was created and was also always existing ? Either the soul was created or it was always existing because if the soul was created then before it was created obviously it did not exist. In Jaiva Dharma the answer is given that in the spiritual world there is no time so there is nothing like time of creation. However still even if there is no time in the spiritual world how can the jiva exist before it was created ?
Following is from Jaiva Dharma which I find difficult to understand so I request someone to guide me with it-
Vrajanatha: You said earlier that the cit world is eternal, and so
are the jivas. If this is true, how can an eternal entity possibly be
created, manifested or produced? If it is created at some point of
time, it must have been non-existent before that, so how can we
accept that it is eternal?
Babaji: The time and space that you experience in this material
world are completely different from time and space in the spiritual
world. Material time is divided into three aspects: past, present
and future. However, in the spiritual world there is only one undivided,
eternally present time. Every event of the spiritual world is
eternally present.
Whatever we say or describe in the material world is under the
jurisdiction of material time and space, so when we say - "The jivas
were created," "The spiritual world was manifested," or "There is
no influence of maya in creating the form of the jivas," - material
time is bound to influence our language and our statements. This
is inevitable in our conditioned state, so we cannot remove the
influence of material time from our descriptions of the atomic jiva
and spiritual objects. The conception of past, present and future
always enters them in some way or another. Still, those who can
discriminate properly can understand the application of the eternal
present when they comprehend the purport of the descriptions
of the spiritual world. Baba, be very careful in this matter.
Give up the inevitable baseness, or the aspect of the description
that is fit to be rejected, and have spiritual realization.
ys,
Mihir.
Replies
yes, but because in the beginning it was in unmanifested form in Krishna's body so we call it as creation but it was already there from the time immemorial since Krishna is eternal with no end and beginning, isn't it?!
And it says that there is not end for material world and no end to spiritual world also. It will be so that even if all living entities go to Vaikuntha this material world will be filled up with new jivas again, coming out from the spiritual body of Maha Vishnu - Krishna.
And at the same time in spiritual world everything is ever growing in size and quantity and in quality.
Gopis become beautiful to make Krishna happy, Krishna becomes even more beautiful to make them happy...they become even more beautiful...in this way the size of the spiritual world is increasing always. Krishna can not understand Himself because His attractiveness is also increasing that is the specialty of spiritual world.
There is no time for being bored with routine things.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Your servant,
Allow me to reply to your question with another question:
When did everything begin? Or even more specific, when was the spiritual world created?
Krsna himself is eternal, he is the beginning the middle and the end as stated in the Gita. The question of creation only exists in the material sense. Lord Brahma was CREATED, the material world was CREATED, Universes are CREATED. Further that which is created also gets destroyed. Our material bodies are both CREATED and DESTROYED. Lord Brahma DIES, the material world will be DESTROYED, and of course, universes are DESTROYED.
Thus, if the soul was never born nor never dies, then how can the soul be created?
As Babaji states, the jurisdiction of time only occurs in the material world which is defined by past, present, and future. In the spiritual world, there is no such thing as time because everything there is eternal. Even if we assume that we are "created" then we have to accept two things - we get destroyed (that which is created / born must die), and if we accept that we get destroyed then we must also accept that we are not parts and parcels of Krsna. Both of which are untrue.
To add, I have heard many times in lectures that we come from the spiritual world because we have fallen due to material and selfish desires. So using that logic, would it be correct to state that the material world was created after jiva-atmas have desires in the spiritual world to enjoy or in other words, when jiva-atmas were manifested, they were done so in the spiritual world? I'm limited in knowledge so I don't want to use an assumption as fact, but I pose a serious question.
My final statement is a basic look at the definition of manifest and create:
MANIFEST:
CREATE
Hari Bol Prabhu ji!
Jai Nityananda Gauranga
Jai Acharyas, Vaishnavas, Holy Names and devotional service!!
This verse confuses about eternality of spirit:
aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
SYNONYMS
aham -- I; sarvasya -- of all; prabhavah -- the source of generation; mattah -- from Me; sarvam -- everything; pravartate -- emanates; iti -- thus; matva -- knowing; bhajante -- become devoted; mam -- unto Me; budhah -- the learned; bhava-samanvitah -- with great attention.
TRANSLATION