Hare Krsna dear devotees
PAMHO
The Lord has referred to matter as His inferior energy and elsewhere as His separated energy. Then how can He be present in every atom as the four handed Visnu form as we see in one of the picture illustrations with electrons encircling a Visnu form?
If He was so present then shouldn't matter be conscious?
Hari bol
Replies
this is a good video regarding the soul kinda a long video but worthit: Rebirth Secrets Revealed- Garud Puran, Ghosts Exist & Ghost Rea...
this is how i understand this so far according to the bhagavatam:
Vishnu makes a hole in the spiritual sky ...
He put the mahat-tattva inside it (the temp mateiral ingridients)
He enters it as Maha-vishnu (because its basically just empty)
He lies down in the garbo ocean.. out comes Lord Brahma from His naval
Brahma creats the planets and His associates humans race
Now to the question what is material and what is spiritual...
Lord Vishnu is transcendental to Maha-maya. The Jiva soul is tiny so its prone to be in Maya BUT it can only be COVERED, the jiva actually can never be put into Maya its only covered. So Maha-maya can only act in the material sence. . like an energy. Its basically the reverse of yoga-maya. This is to my understanding so far.
Hare Krishna,
Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego – all together these eight constitute My separated material energies. ( BG 7.4)
Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting the resources of this material, inferior nature. (7.5)
So, as per these Bhagwan words:-
1. Eightfold material energy (aparā-prakṛti).
2.Jīvas = Kṛṣṇa's superior energy ( para-prakriti)
_ The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind. ( BG.15.7)
As per this-
we have jada ( inert matter) apara prakriti which is enjoyed by the para prakriti ( the exploiter that is jiva) and there is parmatma as well.
3 parts are seperate.
But, In a stone there is parmatma in every atom kan kan mein bhagwan as parmtma but that matter is inert has no life in it and inert.
Like for example- WE are made up of fire, air , water, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego.( apara prakriti). But we have jiva ( consciouness) as well which is a fragment of the (Superconscious)Parmtama.
If Jiva leaves the body. the body is inert and is called dead matter ( jada ).
That which is giving chetana Shakti to the inert matter is the presence of life? YES OR NO?
the jīva is itself conscious, and its presence in the body is associated with the manifestation of consciousness through that body.
Eyes cannot percieve by themselves if the jiva ( life or the consciouness) is leaving the body. Eye are present but they cannot perceieve. Nose is present but they don't work. Skin is present but they don't feel when the jiva leaves the consciouness leaves.
NOTE:- Jiva left the body and body is declared dead but Parmatma has not left the place. It is the jiva that leaves.
Therefore, the presence of Paramātmā in the body does not mean that the material body itself possesses independent consciousness.
So, “kaṇ-kaṇ mein Paramātmā hai” does not necessarily mean “kaṇ-kaṇ is conscious.”
Paramātmā is present in matter, but matter remains jaḍa.
Hare Krishna.
This brings us to another question --" how does a stone in the temple reciprociate to the devotees?"
Hare Krsna
Note:- Jiva left the body and body is declared dead but Paramatma has not left the place. It is the jiva that leaves.
Can you provide scriptural evidence to support this statement.
If the Paramatma does not leave the body with the jiva then is Paramatma waiting for the cremation of the body to take place?
If Paramatma is indeed situated in every atom as a Visnu form then shouldn't Lord Sri Krsna say to Arjuna in Bhagavad-gita 18.61: paramanu dese 'rjuna tisthati instead of hrde dese 'rjuna tisthati.
Moreover, in the body of every living entity for examle a human being there are many trillions trillions upon trillions of atoms or kan-kan as you say. Does that mean there are as many Visnu forms?
If a body is conscious because of the presence of a jiva then shouldn't the body be much more conscious because of the presence of Paramatma Who is far more potent than a jiva?
Hari bol
Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: When the conditioned soul [jīva] in the form of Mahārāja Citraketu’s son had spoken in this way and then left, Citraketu and the other relatives of the dead son were all astonished. Thus they cut off the shackles of their affection, which was due to their relationship with him, and gave up their lamentation. (6.16.12 SB)
The īśvara, the supreme controller of the world, is seated in the heart of everyone. Not only is He in everyone’s heart, but He is also present within the atom. No place is vacant or devoid of the presence of the Lord. That is the statement of Īśopaniṣad. God is present everywhere, and His right of proprietorship applies to everything. The feature of the Lord by which He is present everywhere is called Paramātmā. Ātmā means the individual soul, and Paramātmā means the individual Supersoul; both ātmā and Paramātmā are individual persons. The difference between ātmā and Paramātmā is that the ātmā, or the soul, is present only in a particular body, whereas the Paramātmā is present everywhere. In this connection, the example of the sun is very nice. An individual person may be situated in one place, but the sun, even though a similar individual entity, is present on the head of every individual person. ( SB 3.15.45 Purport)
Hare Krishna
Hare Krsna
The gopis tell Krsna: " Our husbands, friends, family members and children are all dear and pleasing to us only because of Your presence, for You are the Supersoul of all living entities. Without Your presence, one is worthless. WHEN YOU LEAVE THE BODY, THE BODY IMMEDIATELY DIES, AND ACCORDING TO THE INJUNCTION OF THE SASTRAS, A DEAD BODY MUST IMMEDIATELY BE THROWN IN A RIVER OR BURNED. "
The Rasa Dance: Introduction
Chapter 29
The Krsna book
From the statement of the gopis it is clear that the Supersoul (Krsna) Who is present in the heart of every living entity leaves the body at death.
Then what of the dead body or inert matter?
Is it simply the energy of the Lord?
Hari bol
Hare Kṛṣṇa 🙏
Regarding the statement that “the Supersoul (Kṛṣṇa) leaves the body at death,” it is important to understand this according to siddhānta.
Paramātmā does not leave the heart in the same way that the jīva leaves the body. Śrī Kṛṣṇa, as Paramātmā, eternally accompanies the jīva as the indwelling Supersoul.
At death, the jīva leaves the particular material body, and consequently the body becomes inert. Thus, “You leave the body” can be understood as referring to the Lord’s sustaining relationship with that particular living embodiment coming to an end, rather than Paramātmā literally departing from the heart.
Therefore, the dead body is Kṛṣṇa’s material energy (bahiraṅgā-śakti), while the conscious jīva is His marginal energy (taṭasthā-śakti). Kṛṣṇa as Paramātmā remains the eternal indwelling Lord.
Haribol🙏
Hare Krsna Prabhu
It is understood from Vedanta sutra that liberated souls and conditioned souls leave the body in different ways at death.
We are not discussing the manner in which they leave the body.
Hari bol
Hare Kṛṣṇa Prabhu 🙏
Yes Prabhu, understood. The question is not about the manner in which the living entity leaves the body, but specifically about the statement that the Supersoul leaves the body.
From the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava understanding, Paramātmā is present within the heart as the indwelling Lord. At death, the jīva leaves the particular body and the body becomes inert. Therefore, the statement that “the Supersoul leaves the body” would need to be understood in relation to the Lord’s presence and function within that particular body, rather than as Paramātmā becoming absent from the heart in an absolute sense.
The dead body itself is therefore the Lord’s material energy (bahiraṅgā-śakti), which is inert and has no independent consciousness.
Hare Kṛṣṇa 🙏
Hare Krsna
The statement of the gopis that, "When You leave the body " is very clear to me but it seems to me that you are trying to twist the meaning or rather turn the statement of the gopis upside down.
I have no doubt that the dead body is the bahiranga sakti of the Lord.
What is the role of the Paramatma inside the heart of the dead body. Can you care to explain?
Hari bol
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