Hare Krishna
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupad
In our philosophy,it is clearly sates that we are part and parcels of Krishna, and Jiva and Iswara are one and the same. Also it states that Jiva is Qualitatively same and Quantitatively insignificant as compared to Iswara.
This means all qualities we have is originally from lord himself, and no quality is bad as such.
My question is :
Lord says through out BG:
'I' am the supreme enjoyer
'I' am the controller of everything......... and
Everything rests on 'Me'
The effulgence of 'My' body
But when we aspiring devotees say something like :
'I' am the one doing best of bookselling
'I' am the one leading the congregation so nicely
This beautiful prasad is prepared my 'ME' ...........
Then it becomes biggest offence and scriptures says that these 'I' 'Me' and 'Mine" are the impediments in our spiritual journey.
Please someone explain me, how it becomes an adverse quality when we have a tinge of a quality, which lord has in full.
your servant
rameswar kanai das
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Hare Krishna!!! Qualitatively we are same , that means Krishna has an eternally blissful body and being spirit souls, we too have eternally blissful bodies. But Krishna is a reservoir of inconceivable potencies and we form a part of His potency, tatastha shakti or marginal energy. Both ocean and a drop of ocean have got the same chemical formula, H2O, but still the ocean is an ocean and a drop is just a drop. We can't hold Govardhan hill on a finger nor can we make stones float on water. That is the difference between God and Jiva. Srila Prabhupada says-'
When water falls from the clouds, it is uncontaminated like distilled water, but as soon as it touches the ground it becomes muddy and discolored. Similarly, we are originally pure spirit soul, part and parcel of Krishna, and therefore our original constitutional position is as pure as God’s. In Bhagavad-gita Sri Krishna says:
“The living entities in this conditioned world are My fragmental parts, and they are eternal. But due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with thesix senses, which include the mind” (Bg. 15.7).
Thus all living entities are part and parcel of Krishna. By Krishna it should always be remembered that we are speaking of God, Krishna denoting the all-attractive Supreme Personality of Godhead. As a fragment of gold is qualitatively the same as a gold reservoir, so the minute particles of Krishna’s body are therefore qualitatively as good as Krishna. The chemical composition of God’s body and the eternal spiritual body of the living entity is the same—spiritual. Thus originally, in our uncontaminated condition, we possessed a form as good as God’s, but just as rain falls to the ground, so we come in contact with this material world, which is manipulated by the external material energy of Krishna.
When we speak of external energy or material nature, the question may be raised, “Whose energy? Whose nature?” Material energy or nature is not active independently. Such a concept is foolish. In the Bhagavad- gita it is clearly stated that material nature does not work independently. When a foolish man sees a machine he may think that it is working automatically, but actually it is not- there is a driver, someone in control, although we sometimes cannot see the controller behind the machine due to our defective vision. There are many electronic mechanisms which work very wonderfully, but behind these intricate systems there is a scientist who pushes the button. This is very simple to understand: since a machine is matter, it cannot work on its own accord but must work under spiritual direction. A tape recorder works, but it works according to the plans and under the direction of a living entity, a human being. The machine is complete, but unless it is manipulated by a spirit soul, it cannot work. Similarly, we should understand that this cosmic manifestation which we call nature is a great machine, and that behind this machine there is God, Krishna. This is also affirmed in Bhagavad-gita, where Krishna says:
“This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, producing all the moving and unmoving beings, and by its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again” (Bg. 9.10). So Krishna says that material nature is acting under His direction. Thus behind everything there is a supreme controller. Modern civilization does not understand this due to lack of knowledge. It is the purpose of this Society for Krishna Consciousness, therefore, to enlighten all people who have been maddened by the influence of the three modes of material nature. In other words, our aim is to awaken mankind to its normal condition.'
Lord Chaitanya has explained our position as 'jiver swarup hoi krishnar nitya das.'(A living entity is an eternal servitor of the Supreme controller,Lord Krishna).
So, it is rascaldom to claim,
'I' am the one doing best of bookselling
'I' am the one leading the congregation so nicely
This beautiful prasad is prepared my 'ME' ...........
The wise says...
It is by Krishna's mercy that I could do the best of bookselling.
It is by Krishna's mercy that I could lead the congregation so nicely.
It is by Krishna's mercy that I could make such a beautiful prasad.
Your servant,
Gourab Saha.
Hare Krishna
Thank you very much, for your clarifications
your servant
rameswar kanai das
Hare Krishna dear Devotees, please accept my humble obeisances! all glories to Srila Prabhupada!
When i say that i have house, wife/husband, children, money and i am a doctor, or teacher then i am someone who is proud and lier. Because even my body does not belong to me.
But when Krishna says that He is taste of water, light of the Sun...He says it truly. He does not lie. And He is telling it because His friend Arjuna requested Him to tell.
Even though we are qualitatively same with Krishna but our function is to serve to Him and be depended on Him. Servant may use all these riches but he can not claim that all those riches are his.
Your servant,
Hare Krishna
Many many thanks mathaji
your servant
ramesvar kanai das
Thank You Mataji and Prabhuji for this nice reply...
Also,i thank Ramachandran prabhuji for putting this discussion..
HareKrishna..
your servant..
Hare Krishn Prabhuji. Dandavat pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
/*Also it states that Jiva is Qualitatively same and Quantitatively insignificant as compared to Iswara.
This means all qualities we have is originally from lord himself, and no quality is bad as such.*/
when scriptures says on the context that jiva and iswara are qualitatively same , then it means those quality that exhibits in a jiva when its situated in transcendental position and not under 3 material modes of nature. The quality which we see in a Paramhamsha or self-realised soul like Srila Prabhupada.
All the bad qualities are product of maya or external energy of lord which is a combination of 3 modes (goodness,passion and ignorance) . So when the jiva cut all the knot of 3 modes and establish in transcendental position then it shows the quality of iswara minutely.
In Nutshell jiva - 3 modes (goodness,passion,ignorance) = Iswara qualitatively though minute and NOT Quantitatively.
The answer of your 2nd query is that first we have to understand that we are brahman in our original state and part of para-brahman , now as a part of para brahman we inherits some quality that para-brahman posesses. For this reason we also have some power and can control few things, like we are making machine,satelites,areoplane etc. It is only beacuse we have some controlling power but not that like Krishna. we can't create universe,float planets etc. Beacuse we are not supreme controller.
So when Krishna saying "I" , it is ok for him beacause he alone can do anything beacuse he is the proprietor of everything that exist in the whole creation, but we can't beacuse we are part of the whole creation, when we say "I" am doing we are falsely thinking that "I" am the only doer rather in fact BG says:
BG 18.14: The place of action [the body], the performer, the various senses, the many different kinds of endeavor, and ultimately the Supersoul — these are the five factors of action.
BG 18.15: Whatever right or wrong action a man performs by body, mind or speech is caused by these five factors.
BG 18.16: Therefore one who thinks himself the only doer, not considering the five factors, is certainly not very intelligent and cannot see things as they are.
we can't do anything independently rather we have given facility to perform.
Your aspiring servant
Hari Bol
Hare Krishna
Many thanks for your clarifications
your insignificant servant
rameswar kanai das