How does a jivatma fall from Vaikuntha?If he falls does he get trapped in samsara?or does he go back to Vaikuntha just after his first death after his fall?
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How does a jivatma fall from Vaikuntha?If he falls does he get trapped in samsara?or does he go back to Vaikuntha just after his first death after his fall?
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Hare krsna,
All glories to srila prabhupad, guru and gauranga.
The term "fall" is fall in the consciousness of the soul. As the soul is eternal, the only two spheres it can concentrate is on either material or spiritual. But the main identity of the soul is that it is ACTUALLY a spiritual entity and it is part and parcel of Krsna. When this spiritual entity is covered with a layer of subtle body, then it moves away from spiritual sphere onto the material consciousness. This becomes a fall down.
The subtle body constitutes of mind, intelligence and false ego. If the consciousness of the subtle body has overcome desires and attained the desire to be a servant with a devotional service attitude, then the soul from the tatastha stage moves upward into the spiritual realm/world.
If the consciousness of the subtle body has not overcome and still has desires to enjoy separate to krsna, then in order to attain, experience and to fulfil those desires, krsna provides them a suitable body (from among the 84 million species) to make this happen. This becomes a fall down and the soul travels downwards towards the material world where along with the options to fulfil the desire, the soul is also affected by the three modes of material nature and experiences the good and bad of samsara. Technically, trapped!!! Jail!!! no escape!!! (sorry, trying to do a Trump speech :) )
One might ask, how does a soul develop a desire to enjoy other than krsna? Being part of krsna, as krsna has explained in BG, each soul has minute independence. It is this independence, that gives a soul to false designation/impression to feel separate to krsna and hence crave for the same enjoyment that krsna experiences. For a soul which keeps krsna in his/her thoughts doesn't get this false identification and hence never falls down, like the liberated souls.
Hope my attempt to answer your query was helpful prabhuji..
Happy to take on board feedback and corrections.
Hare krsna.
At the beginning of creation Sri Brahma sow that all jivas are liberated souls uninterested in material activities. Because of that, populating universe with different material forms of living beings was impossible. After meditation on that process he then created illusion in a form of a woman, and all souls fall in illusion because of attachment . In this way the universe start to be populated, and living beings start to be involved in material activities.
Sri Brahma then sow that creation of the illusion was giving jivas ''suffer and unhappiness'', because of that ''sinful'' creation he purified himself by meditation on Lord.
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One who desire to find the source of that explained ''fall of jivatma'', can find it in Srimad Bhagavatam.
Maybe the statement 'fall' applies to the material world only [ which is just a reflection of the spiritual world. A reflection of the hesitating and roving of our spirit]. I hope my opinion will not destroy someone's enjoying moments!
Hare KRsna PRabhujis,
PAMHO.
There are 2 schools of thought on from where we came - one school of thought is we were all in the spiritual world, we landed here (material world) in jail, because of our desire to enjoy independent of God. Another view is that we were always in the material world and we have to do sadhana to go back to the spiritual world. Its a one time entry, once we reach there, there is no scope to fall back into the material world.
Be that as it may, what our acharyas say is that it doesnt matter from where we came, what matters is how to go back to Godhead. For instance, a drowning man is concerned about getting out of water, he doesnt waste time in arguing or trying to figure out how he landed in water in the first place. So we should take advantage of our human form of life and do enough sadhana that we can go back at the end of this life itself.
To answer your question about whether the jiva goes back to Vaikuntha just after his first death after his fall - NO. The jivatma falls into maya the moment he comes to the material world. It is mentioned that from heaven, when a soul comes to earth, he first attains a human form of life. It is very natural that there will be some good and some bad deeds in anybody's life. Then the results of those good and bad deeds cycle starts, plus the jiva is so attracted to the material world, influenced by maya, that he himself doesnt want to go back. There is an example of Indra being cursed and taking the form of a hog. He forgets he is Indra, lives happily as a hog, marries and has number of kids. When the period of the curse is over, Brahma himself comes to take back Indra, reminds him that he is king of heaven, but Indra is illusioned, doesnt believe and doesnt want to go back. That is the nature of this material world, there are no handcuffs, no chains, no jail, still the jiva doesnt want to leave this jail and go back to its original place. In other words, without sadhana and without developing love for Godhead, it is not possible to go back to the spiritual world.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hi Radha, Hare Krishna, Hare Rama,
Maybe the life is some kind of addiction to the tickling of the senses? Also:- "We all where here [or there]" doesn't sound quite right to me, because I see so many different types of people. Please, forgive my ton - I am not trying to argue, but just shearing an opinion.
Different kinds of people are there prabhuji, because manushya yoni (human form of life) itself is 4,00,000 yonis. Another reason is these are all different combinations of the 3 modes - sattva, raja and tama. Like there is so much music in the world, combination of 7 basic notes only.
Maybe ours individual combination of the 3 modes is some kind of spiritual-biological program which we can reprogram with our action [ or lack of action] . It explains a lot, but what about so called black magicians, fortunate tellers and all this mud? Are those able to affect our personal program , and if so what can we do to brake the curse? [My apologies, if I am annoying]
Hare Krishna mataji,which view is true according to shastras and guru.because only one view is right....
I dont know prabhuji. Who can say I came back from the spiritual world and I know for sure which version is correct.
Like I mentioned, our gurus stress on the need to awaken the desire to go back, not to find out how we came here.
Same question....
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