How did we end up in this material world?

Hare Krishna,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fjTLm4gJdQ

Pls. go thru the vid.

The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples

Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.”

Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.

Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

Free will means, it is the jiva soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krishna, or even not surrender if they choose however, the majority of souls, over 90% of jiva souls, never make that foolish choice and enter the material creation.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - ''Because you are Son of God you have got independence, so God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently'', God says, “All right, you can go and enjoy”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

The relationship between Krishna and the jiva-tattva (soul) is NEVER one-sided, never forced, never impersonal, it is ALWAYS reciprocal, nurturing, personal and voluntary, in a mood of good exchanges and feelings, ONLY then can there be REAL love.

If free will is taken away from the marginal living entities, then we lose the ability to give and accept love, we become no better than dead stone or mindless robot.

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974).

For love to truly exist, the jiva-souls (jivatma or jiva-tattva) MUST have the free will and right as part of their marginal constitutional make up, to choose in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at all times.

And sadly the fact is, a small minority do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan (less than 10%), regardless of how some have interpreted past Sages and Acharyas claiming no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha.

To say those in Vaikuntha will "never ever fall down" IS true - but ONLY for those who choose NOT to fall down".

In other words, if the jiva wants to leave they certainly can.

To make a blanket comment that "not even the leaves fall and leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana" seems to not take into consideration the free will of the jiva tattva.

Hare Krishna.

Replies

- Shailendra Mishra > Punkech Patel September 1, 2021 at 7:57pm
  
  Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
  
  PAMHO.
  
  Thank you for your answer.
Gayatri August 28, 2021 at 11:36pm

Hare Krishna,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fjTLm4gJdQ

Pls. go thru the vid.

The following Conversation took place in Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974 between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples

Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.”

Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire.

Devotee – “In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says, “My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists, “Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

Free will means, it is the jiva soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krishna, or even not surrender if they choose however, the majority of souls, over 90% of jiva souls, never make that foolish choice and enter the material creation.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love. Not by force! Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - ''Because you are Son of God you have got independence, so God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that “I must go and enjoy independently'', God says, “All right, you can go and enjoy”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974)

The relationship between Krishna and the jiva-tattva (soul) is NEVER one-sided, never forced, never impersonal, it is ALWAYS reciprocal, nurturing, personal and voluntary, in a mood of good exchanges and feelings, ONLY then can there be REAL love.

If free will is taken away from the marginal living entities, then we lose the ability to give and accept love, we become no better than dead stone or mindless robot.

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence”. (Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974).

For love to truly exist, the jiva-souls (jivatma or jiva-tattva) MUST have the free will and right as part of their marginal constitutional make up, to choose in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana at all times.

And sadly the fact is, a small minority do choose to leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavan (less than 10%), regardless of how some have interpreted past Sages and Acharyas claiming no one can ever fall down from Vaikuntha.

To say those in Vaikuntha will "never ever fall down" IS true - but ONLY for those who choose NOT to fall down".

In other words, if the jiva wants to leave they certainly can.

To make a blanket comment that "not even the leaves fall and leave Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana" seems to not take into consideration the free will of the jiva tattva.

Hare Krishna.
- Shailendra Mishra > Gayatri August 29, 2021 at 10:34am
  
  Hare Krsna Mataji,
  
  PAMHO.
  
  Thank you Mataji. I have understood that, why did I come here and how foolish I was to take up such a foolish decision to which I regret now. By the way thanks to Krishna, Srila Prabhupada and other Vaishnavas by whose mercy, I again got connected to krishna and hope that I wouldn't be foolish again.

This reply was deleted.