pls give examples also.
i m trying to refute "only formless" word present pls improve it
1. one can say as we have form but god is unlimited then how he can have form because then it will be limited
my opinion is if god is unlimited means he is excelling in one quality that is being greater than greatest but then what about smaller than smallest (Here it is proved at least we can't say GOD is only formless or unlimited), god is all good but then what about bad
therefore vaishnavas have information that god or KRISHNA simultaneously fulfills all criteria being greatest (unlimited) , smallest (he resides in ANU i.e. atom therefore one name is vishnu) , source of good and bad and everything. our mistake is when we imagine krishna we think he is like us but actually we are like him and he appear to devotees as human but he is simultaneously biggest also he is not human he is not species he is GOD remember he says in GITA with small fraction he pervades all creation (unimaginable, because if we can imagine or understand krishna then we become equal or better than him ) Therefore for us god is krishna (everything comes in this word)
also scriptures says as senses are faulty and condition soul is tend to lie, cheat,fall down, weak memory better to believe in shastras (authorised by disciplic succession) KRISHNA is everything.
pls improve it .
Replies
pṛthvyāṁ vapuḥ kanaka-daṇḍam ivābhipātya
spṛṣṭvā catur-mukuṭa-koṭibhir aṅghri-yugmaṁ
natvā mud-aśru-sujalair akṛtābhiṣekam
Lord Brahmā bowed down like a stick, and because Lord Brahmā’s complexion is golden, he appeared to be like a golden stick lying down before Lord Kṛṣṇa. When one falls down before a superior just like a stick, one’s offering of obeisances is called daṇḍavat. Daṇḍa means “stick,” and vat means “like.” It is not that one should simply say “Daṇḍavat.” Rather, one must fall down. Thus Brahmā fell down, touching his foreheads to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and his crying in ecstasy is to be regarded as an abhiṣeka bathing ceremony of Kṛṣṇa’s lotus feet.
He who appeared before Brahmā as a human child was in fact the Absolute Truth, Parabrahman (brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate). The Supreme Lord is narākṛti; that is, He resembles a human being. It is not that He is four-armed (catur-bāhu). Nārāyaṇa is catur-bāhu, but the Supreme Person resembles a human being. This is also confirmed in the Bible, where it is said that man was made in the image of God.
Lord Brahmā saw that Kṛṣṇa, in His form as a cowherd boy, was Parabrahman, the root cause of everything, but was now appearing as a human child, loitering in Vṛndāvana with a morsel of food in His hand. Astonished, Lord Brahmā hastily got down from his swan carrier and let his body fall to the earth. Usually, the demigods never touch the ground, but Lord Brahmā, voluntarily giving up his prestige as a demigod, bowed down on the ground before Kṛṣṇa. Although Brahmā has one head in each direction, he voluntarily brought all his heads to the ground and touched Kṛṣṇa’s feet with the tips of his four helmets. Although his intelligence works in every direction, he surrendered everything before the boy Kṛṣṇa.
It is mentioned that Brahmā washed the feet of Kṛṣṇa with his tears, and here the word sujalaiḥ indicates that his tears were purified. As soon as bhakti is present, everything is purified (sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam). Therefore Brahmā’s crying was a form of bhakty-anubhāva, a transformation of transcendental ecstatic love.
PAMHO AGTSP
I came to believe that in the Supreme we cannot understand how God is a person with a personal form. The Jiva Soul is so small it is difficult for the Jiva Soul just to understand the body in which they dwell in the material existence. There are so many things about existence that we simply cannot fathom. We accept on the basis of faith that God has a personal form and personality.
How can we argue that God is just light or just love? God is everything. God is forever one and at the same time God is forever many.
Hare Krsna!
Hare Krishna, shishyatat prabhu!! Krishna's form is called sat-chit-ananda vigraha, that which is eternal and eternally blissful. It never perishes or decays. Krishna stayed in this earth for 125 years, but he always looked like a 16yrs old boy even when He had grandchildren. He is known as 'navayuvan'(ever-fresh) 'and nihseemam'(whose beauty constantly increases).
Don't ever think God's form is perishable. Krishna confirms on Bhagavad Gita
avajānanti māḿ mūḍhā
mānuṣīḿ tanum āśritam
paraḿ bhāvam ajānanto
mama bhūta-maheśvaram
TRANSLATION
Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.
PURPORT
From the other explanations of the previous verses in this chapter, it is clear that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although appearing like a human being, is not a common man. The Personality of Godhead, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the complete cosmic manifestation, cannot be a human being. Yet there are many foolish men who consider Kṛṣṇa to be merely a powerful man and nothing more. Actually, He is the original Supreme Personality, as is confirmed in the Brahma-saḿhitā (īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ); He is the Supreme Lord.
There are many īśvaras, controllers, and one appears greater than another. In the ordinary management of affairs in the material world, we find some official or director, and above him there is a secretary, and above him a minister, and above him a president. Each of them is a controller, but one is controlled by another. In the Brahma-saḿhitā it is said that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller; there are many controllers undoubtedly, both in the material and spiritual world, but Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller (īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ). and His body is sac-cid-ānanda, nonmaterial.
Material bodies cannot perform the wonderful acts described in previous verses. His body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. Although He is not a common man, the foolish deride Him and consider Him to be a man. His body is called here mānuṣīm because He is acting just like a man, a friend of Arjuna's, a politician involved in the Battle of Kurukṣetra. In so many ways He is acting just like an ordinary man, but actually His body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1] — eternal bliss and knowledge absolute. This is confirmed in the Vedic language also. Sac-cid-ānanda-rūpāya kṛṣṇāya: "I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who is the eternal blissful form of knowledge." (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.1) There are other descriptions in the Vedic language also. Tam ekaḿ govindam: "You are Govinda, the pleasure of the senses and the cows." Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraham: "And Your form is transcendental, full of knowledge, bliss and eternality." (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.35)
Despite the transcendental qualities of Lord Kṛṣṇa's body, its full bliss and knowledge, there are many so-called scholars and commentators of Bhagavad-gītā who deride Kṛṣṇa as an ordinary man. The scholar may be born an extraordinary man due to his previous good work, but this conception of Śrī Kṛṣṇa is due to a poor fund of knowledge. Therefore he is called mūḍha. for only foolish persons consider Kṛṣṇa to be an ordinary human being. The foolish consider Kṛṣṇa an ordinary human being because they do not know the confidential activities of the Supreme Lord and His different energies. They do not know that Kṛṣṇa's body is a symbol of complete knowledge and bliss, that He is the proprietor of everything that be and that He can award liberation to anyone. Because they do not know that Kṛṣṇa has so many transcendental qualifications, they deride Him.
Nor do they know that the appearance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this material world is a manifestation of His internal energy. He is the master of the material energy. As has been explained in several places (mama māyā duratyayā), He claims that the material energy, although very powerful, is under His control, and whoever surrenders unto Him can get out of the control of this material energy. If a soul surrendered to Kṛṣṇa can get out of the influence of material energy, then how can the Supreme Lord, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the whole cosmic nature, have a material body like us? So this conception of Kṛṣṇa is complete foolishness. Foolish persons, however, cannot conceive that the Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, appearing just like an ordinary man, can be the controller of all the atoms and of the gigantic manifestation of the universal form. The biggest and the minutest are beyond their conception, so they cannot imagine that a form like that of a human being can simultaneously control the infinite and the minute. Actually although He is controlling the infinite and the finite, He is apart from all this manifestation. It is clearly stated concerning His yogam aiśvaram, His inconceivable transcendental energy, that He can control the infinite and the finite simultaneously and that He can remain aloof from them. Although the foolish cannot imagine how Kṛṣṇa, who appears just like a human being, can control the infinite and the finite, those who are pure devotees accept this, for they know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore they completely surrender unto Him and engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotional service of the Lord.
There are many controversies between the impersonalists and the personalists about the Lord's appearance as a human being. But if we consult Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the authoritative texts for understanding the science of Kṛṣṇa, then we can understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is not an ordinary man, although He appeared on this earth as an ordinary human. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, First Chapter, when the sages headed by Śaunaka inquired about the activities of Kṛṣṇa, they said:
kṛtavān kila karmāṇi
saha rāmeṇa keśavaḥ
ati-martyāni bhagavān
gūḍhaḥ kapaṭa-māṇuṣaḥ
"Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, along with Balarāma, played like a human being, and so masked He performed many superhuman acts." (Bhāg. 1.1.20) The Lord's appearance as a man bewilders the foolish. No human being could perform the wonderful acts that Kṛṣṇa performed while He was present on this earth. When Kṛṣṇa appeared before His father and mother, Vasudeva and Devakī, He appeared with four hands, but after the prayers of the parents He transformed Himself into an ordinary child. As stated in the Bhāgavatam (10.3.46), babhūva prākṛtaḥ śiśuḥ: He became just like an ordinary child, an ordinary human being. Now, here again it is indicated that the Lord's appearance as an ordinary human being is one of the features of His transcendental body. In the Eleventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated that Arjuna prayed to see Kṛṣṇa's form of four hands (tenaiva rūpeṇa catur-bhujena). After revealing this form, Kṛṣṇa, when petitioned by Arjuna, again assumed His original humanlike form (mānuṣaḿ rūpam). These different features of the Supreme Lord are certainly not those of an ordinary human being.
Some of those who deride Kṛṣṇa and who are infected with the Māyāvādī philosophy quote the following verse from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (3.29.21) to prove that Kṛṣṇa is just an ordinary man. Ahaḿ sarveṣu bhūteṣu bhūtātmāvasthitaḥ sadā: "The Supreme is present in every living entity." We should better take note of this particular verse from the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas like Jīva Gosvāmī and Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura instead of following the interpretation of unauthorized persons who deride Kṛṣṇa. Jīva Gosvāmī, commenting on this verse, says that Kṛṣṇa, in His plenary expansion as Paramātmā, is situated in the moving and the nonmoving entities as the Supersoul, so any neophyte devotee who simply gives his attention to the arcā-mūrti, the form of the Supreme Lord in the temple, and does not respect other living entities is uselessly worshiping the form of the Lord in the temple. There are three kinds of devotees of the Lord, and the neophyte is in the lowest stage. The neophyte devotee gives more attention to the Deity in the temple than to other devotees, so Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura warns that this sort of mentality should be corrected. A devotee should see that because Kṛṣṇa is present in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, every body is the embodiment or the temple of the Supreme Lord; so as one offers respect to the temple of the Lord, he should similarly properly respect each and every body in which the Paramātmā dwells. Everyone should therefore be given proper respect and should not be neglected.
There are also many impersonalists who deride temple worship. They say that since God is everywhere, why should one restrict himself to temple worship? But if God is everywhere, is He not in the temple or in the Deity? Although the personalist and the impersonalist will fight with one another perpetually, a perfect devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness knows that although Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, He is all-pervading, as confirmed in the Brahma-saḿhitā. Although His personal abode is Goloka Vṛndāvana and He is always staying there, by His different manifestations of energy and by His plenary expansion He is present everywhere in all parts of the material and spiritual creation.
The Transcendence Comes Into View
Lord Krishna’s Advent
by Jayadvaita Swami
“Our dear Lord, You have appeared in Your original unalloyed form, the eternal form of goodness, for the welfare of all living entities within this material world. Taking advantage of Your appearance, all of them can now very easily understand the nature and form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead:”
—Srimad-Bhagavatam, Tenth Canto, Chapter Two
The Supreme Lord is not formless or impersonal. When we speak of Krishna, we speak of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. What this means, essentially, is that the Godhead, the Supreme Truth, the source of everything, is ultimately the supreme individual person. According to the Vedic literatures, God has three features. First, He has His all-pervading, impersonal aspect. In this feature, He is the great light from which everything shines forth, the great primordial truth from which all other truths arise. Beyond this, however, He also has His aspect of Paramatma, the supreme knower who lives within the heart of everyone and gives everyone knowledge, memory, or forgetfulness. And ultimately God also has an independent personal aspect, His original eternal form of bliss and knowledge.
In this personal aspect, the Lord has not only a form but also a name, an abode, personal qualities, an eternal entourage, and spiritual activities.
Yet all these are beyond our direct sensory perception. Through sensory perception we can neither confirm nor deny God’s existence; all we can say is that He is not within the reach of our senses. Nor can we know God merely by speculation. The mind and intelligence are limited. So if God is unlimited, our minds and intelligence will prove too small to grasp Him.
But the unlimited, if He is truly unlimited, can reveal Himself and His unlimited nature, even in this material world. This is the purpose of Krishna’s appearance. As Bhagavad-gita explains, Krishna appears in this world from time to time (to favor His devotees, subdue the ungodly, and reestablish universal religious principles for the benefit of all living beings).
So although Krishna is the supreme absolute, the ultimate existence, the Supreme Lord of all creation, He also appears within this mundane world as a visible, historical person. When He does so, He enlightens us by showing us His eternal nature and His eternal transcendental form.
Janmashtami is what could be called Krishna’s birthday. But it’s not called that, because Krishna never takes birth like an ordinary man. An ordinary man takes birth in this world because he is forced to by the laws of nature. But Krishna’s “birth” is a transcendental drama staged by the Lord Himself. In this drama, the Lord allows certain exalted devotees to play the roles of His father and mother, and others appear as His friends and other associates.
From the very beginning, Krishna’s activities on earth were extraordinary. At the time of His so-called birth, He appeared before His parents as the majestic four-armed Lord Narayana. While still a child on his mother’s lap, He slew the great demon Putana. Throughout His 125 years on earth, Krishna performed wonderful superhuman activities. He exhibited the unlimited strength, beauty, wealth, fame, knowledge, and renunciation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In particular, He imparted sublime spiritual knowledge to His friend and devotee Arjuna, knowledge that endures in the sacred text Bhagavad-gita.
According to Bhagavad-gita, we can achieve freedom from the pangs of material suffering and return to the kingdom of God simply by understanding the transcendental birth and activities Lord Krishna enacts when He appears in this material world.
Yet, the Gita goes on to say, hardly anyone knows God as He is. In the absence of a clear understanding, we describe God negatively, in terms of what He is not, or in terms vague, enigmatic, and intangible. But when God personally descends to earth. He reveals His eternal form and His eternal transcendental qualities.
But even though God personally appears, one cannot understand Him merely by blunt materialistic vision. Even when Krishna was present, less intelligent men, unable to appreciate His transcendental superexcellence, thought Him an ordinary person of this material world. Similarly, unintelligent men in the present age think Krishna nothing more than a mythological hero. Yet great saints and sages throughout history have consistently accepted Lord Krishna as the Supreme Godhead. The sage Vyasadeva was the compiler of the Vedic literature and the author of Vedanta-sutra, perhaps the most demandingly logical treatise on spiritual inquiry ever written. Yet after completing Vedanta-sutra Vyasadeva felt that his life’s work would be incomplete if he failed to write one book devoted exclusively to describing the transcendental form, qualities, and pastimes of Lord Krishna. Would such a sage have suddenly abandoned his rigorous pursuit of truth to indulge in spinning whimsical mythological tales?
Lord Krishna is neither mundane nor mythological, but one can understand Him only by pure devotion. Indeed, this is the central theme of Bhagavad-gita, for this is the supreme principle of religion that Lord Krishna appears in this world to teach: that one should abandon all other forms of religion and simply surrender to Him in devotion. Pure devotion to God, pure love for God, is the ultimate goal of all religious principles.
From a historical point of view, Krishna appeared within this material world for 125 years and then left. But from a broader philosophical viewpoint we can understand that Krishna is always present everywhere, although sometimes He is visible and sometimes not.
When Krishna descended on earth five thousand years ago, He briefly made Himself visible to all. And from the Vedic literature it is understood that those whose eyes have been anointed with the ointment of pure devotion can see Lord Krishna in their hearts perpetually. Such exalted souls, however, are very rare.
How then are the rest of us to know God and develop our love for Him’? The Vedic authorities have conclusively decided that in the present age the most effective means for developing our love for God is to chant His holy names, especially as found in the Hare Krishna mantra—Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. Because God is absolute, there is no difference between God and God’s name. So when we chant the holy name of the Lord, the Lord Himself is dancing on our tongue. As we continue to chant—sincerely, we associate directly with the Lord, and thus we advance in spiritual life.
Just as there is no difference between the Lord and His holy name, so also we cannot separate Krishna from His transcendental form. When Krishna’s form is present. Krishna Himself is present. The Vedic scriptures therefore recommend that one worship Krishna’s murti,His transcendental form in the temple. Although the murti appears to mundane eyes to be a mere statue, to the eyes of a pure devotee He appears as Krishna Himself. Of course, metal and stone and wood are material elements, but Krishna is present in these elements, for He is present everywhere. And when these elements are molded into Krishna’s form, the same Krishna who was present all along becomes visible to our eyes.
The pictures on these pages, therefore, are pictures of Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who appears in this world for our benefit. And if we devote ourselves to Krishna and chant Lord Krishna’s holy name, under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master, our consciousness will be purified, and we will be able to perceive Krishna’s presence directly—while chanting Hare Krishna, while seeing the form of Krishna, and ultimately at every moment.
Hare Krishna, Nilesh prabhu!!! Hope this article will be helpful for you--
The Form of God: Fact or Fancy?
Is God a formless force, or the supreme eternal person?
Chandidas dasa
Often people become puzzled when they see a picture of Lord Krishna. Usually they have been exposed only to Western religious philosophy, which hints that God is a person—the eternal father of every living entity—but gives scanty information about His form. For this reason many people think God is formless or void. But by using a little logic we can easily understand that if God is our eternal father, He must have form. Our fathers are persons with form. And if we count back thousands of generations we will find that our forefathers were also persons with form. Why should we think that the original, primeval, absolute father (God) is not a person, or that He is a formless person? The word person implies form; a formless person does not exist.
Nevertheless, many people think that since God is spirit, He must be formless. They consider spirit to be some transparent, ethereal “force.” However, beyond this hazy conception of spirit, which is not upheld in any of the great scriptures of the world, is the scientific explanation of spirit—or, as modern science calls it, antimatter—found in the Vedic literature.
The Vedic literature do not deny the formless aspect of God. Rather, they explain that beyond the formless, impersonal realization of God is the highest understanding of the Absolute Truth as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Vedic literature explain that God, Krishna, is a person. Just as we are all individual persons, so God is also an individual person. But He is not an ordinary, materially covered person like us. He is a transcendental person (nityo nityanam cetanash cetananam). And to realize His personality is to realize all His transcendental features—His name, His qualities, His activities, His associates, and His form.
God, who is complete, cannot be formless. Everything in His creation has form, so how can God have no form? This would mean that God is less than His creation—or in other words, that the complete is incomplete, which is simply illogical. The complete whole must contain everything within our experience and beyond our experience; otherwise He cannot be complete. In addition, all the great scriptures of the world instruct us to love God. How can we love something formless or void? It’s impossible. We are all persons, and we desire to love other persons—not some dark oblivion in outer space. We desire personal relationships, and the ultimate relationship is with the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
The form of Krishna—with His bluish hue, lotus eyes, blooming youthfulness, and pearl-white smile—is not fanciful. It is not created by an artist, a philosopher, or a mundane poet after seeing the beautiful panorama of the material world. This anthropomorphic idea doesn’t answer the question, “Where does the beauty of nature come from?” Actually, the beautiful things of nature are reflections of Krishna’s original beauty. He is the prototype, as He explains in the Bhagavad-gita (10.41). Yad yad vibhutimat sattvam shrimad urjitam eva va / tat tad evavagaccha tvam mama tejo-‘msha- sambhavam: “Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.”
Now we might ask, “Why do you accept the statements in the Vedic literature about the form of God?” But if we reflect for a moment, we can understand that every day we accept the statements of superior authorities on subjects we know nothing about. For instance, many people have never visited mainland China, yet they believe that it exists and that almost a billion people live there. We believe the magazine, newspaper, radio, and television reports about China. These are the sources of our knowledge, and if we wish we can confirm them by going to China ourselves. In the same way, the Vedic literature are the source of knowledge that reveals Krishna’s form to us. And we can confirm that knowledge as well—by following the Vedic teachings in our everyday life and developing the vision to see Krishna directly.
However, to properly receive the Vedic teachings, we must approach a perfect authority, whose knowledge is coming from the Absolute through an unbroken line of spiritual masters. Then our knowledge will be perfect. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is such a spiritual master, and he is giving us authoritative knowledge of Krishna’s form through books such as Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srimad- Bhagavatam,and Brahma-samhita.These books have existed more than five thousand years, and by following them many learned men have attained perfect knowledge of Krishna’s form. For example, Brahma-samhita is a detailed description of Krishna’s form by one of the most exalted personalities in the universe, Lord Brahma. After thousands of years of meditation, Brahma actually met Krishna face to face. In his ecstasy he related what he saw:
“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is adept at playing on His flute, who has blooming eyes like lotus petals, whose head is bedecked with a peacock feather, whose figure of beauty is tinged with the hue of blue clouds, and whose unique loveliness charms millions of cupids” (Bs. 5.30).
“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose transcendental form is full of bliss, truth, and substantiality, and who is thus full of the most dazzling splendor. Each limb of that transcendental figure possesses in itself the full-fledged functions of all the other organs, and He eternally sees, maintains, and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane” (Bs. 5.32).
Experts in the science of bhakti-yoga have related to us the knowledge of Krishna’s form through an unbroken disciplic succession. They encourage us to test the methods they prescribe, and to experience unlimited pleasure by seeing Krishna’s form ourselves.
By reading the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, we can learn about Krishna’s names, qualities, pastimes, and form. Then, with determination, we can practice the scientific process of Krishna consciousness and elevate ourselves to the perfectional stage of life—pure love of God.
Lord Krishna ‘s beauty possesses mind-attracting splendor greater than emeralds. His lustrous body resembles a dark cloud newly appearing in the sky during the rainy season. Just as the rainfall glistens, His bodily features also glisten. Indeed, Krishna is the sum total of all beauty. He stands gracefully with His legs crossed. His body curved, and His head tilted to the side. His yellow garment is more attractive than newly arrived lightning. A peacock feather decorates His head, and on His neck hangs a lovely necklace of brilliant pearls. Lord Krishna’s eyes defeat the beauty of white lotus flowers, and His eyebrows move slowly like bumblebees on His lotus-like face. As He takes His charming, flute to His lips and moves His fingers upon it here and there, His face looks as beautiful as the full autumn moon.