Hare Krishna! Yes, it's true. The lotus flower is untouched by water. The love of God beyond material nature. Yet there are frogs, ducks, fish, boys and girls frolicking and splashing in the water. The splashes drench the lotus flower.So, it can not be said, similarly, that the love of God can not be influenced by material nature. It does when it comes to money matters. One either serves God or Mammon.
This is not the logic.It is a mental speculation. If someone falls down, it is not God's act. It is because of his own mistake. Suppose if a devotee indulges himself in illicit sex, he can not blame God' Maya but it is his own weakness (his uncontrolled sexual desires).
I agree with you - it is the jiva's fault if he falls down. At every moment in life, the jiva has only one choice - to choose maya or to choose Krsna. The choice he has to make, the consequences are not in his hands.
May I suggest you read Srimad Bhagawad Gita As It Is - cover to cover. These doubts will all get cleared.
Hare Krishna! To tell you the truth. There is no guarantee the devotee will not fall again. Because it is the Lord God who does all this falling to teach his devotees some lessons in life. Maya is the Lord God. So, if we are illusioned, it is also the Lord God who is causing it. I do not blame myself for falling again and again. This falling thing is His lila, too. The Lord God is a naughty Boy. He always plays tricks on his devotees. He is always smiling and laughing. Because it is His nature.
Divyanshu Sharma, "My question is whether a downfall affects our previous spiritual progress in Krishna Consciousness or it is like a break only after which a devotee will start exactly from there where he left off."
Visakha-devi dasi says," Even if a devotee peer falls down-and in this difficult age, falldowns along the spiritual path can easily happen-still one can think, "Given the temptations that that person faced, how much better would I have fared?" And one can be confident that a devotee is never forsaken by the Lord. As Srila Prabhupada explains, "Even though he falls down, a devotee is never to be considered the same as a fallen karmi (fruitive worker). A karmi suffers the result of his own fruitive reactions, whereas a devotee is reformed by chastisement directed by the Lord Himself" (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.19, purport). If the Lord doesn't leave His friend, why should we? Best to be strict with oneself, following Krsna's instructions, and patient with others, knowing that they're in Krsna's all-competent hands."
THis question is very often asked in CHennai and HH Bhanu Swamy Maharaj replies that upto Bhava stage, one may fall down - eg - Bharat Maharaj developed attachment for deer. Only in Prema stage, there is no fear of falldown. Srimati Radharani is in prema.
My question is whether a downfall affects our previous spiritual progress in Krishna Consciousness or it is like a break only after which a devotee will start exactly from there where he left off((or where he was before downfall) .
The answer is in the Bhagawad Gita - if one is unable to complete his spiritual perfection in one birth, he takes birth again in an aristocratic or pious family and is given a chance to continue from where he left in the previous birth.
What is a downfall? Its maya taking over the senses and one is unable to control the urges of the tongue, belly or genitals.
The point is that the soul gets a chance to continue from where he left in the previous birth. It does not garauntee that the soul will continue. It is always a choice. Like it is mentioned in the Gita - sucinam srimatam gehe, yoga bhrashto'bhi jayate - such a soul is reborn in an aristocratic or pious family. How many such people in today's world do you see going towards spiritual progress?
Replies
Hare Krishna! Yes, it's true. The lotus flower is untouched by water. The love of God beyond material nature. Yet there are frogs, ducks, fish, boys and girls frolicking and splashing in the water. The splashes drench the lotus flower.So, it can not be said, similarly, that the love of God can not be influenced by material nature. It does when it comes to money matters. One either serves God or Mammon.
Haribol always,
krsnaraja melvin
Hare Krishna krsnaraja melvin prabhu,
Thanks for Reply but,
This is not the logic.It is a mental speculation. If someone falls down, it is not God's act. It is because of his own mistake. Suppose if a devotee indulges himself in illicit sex, he can not blame God' Maya but it is his own weakness (his uncontrolled sexual desires).
Hari bol
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
I agree with you - it is the jiva's fault if he falls down. At every moment in life, the jiva has only one choice - to choose maya or to choose Krsna. The choice he has to make, the consequences are not in his hands.
May I suggest you read Srimad Bhagawad Gita As It Is - cover to cover. These doubts will all get cleared.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare Krishna! To tell you the truth. There is no guarantee the devotee will not fall again. Because it is the Lord God who does all this falling to teach his devotees some lessons in life. Maya is the Lord God. So, if we are illusioned, it is also the Lord God who is causing it. I do not blame myself for falling again and again. This falling thing is His lila, too. The Lord God is a naughty Boy. He always plays tricks on his devotees. He is always smiling and laughing. Because it is His nature.
Haribol always,
krsnaraja melvin
Divyanshu Sharma, "My question is whether a downfall affects our previous spiritual progress in Krishna Consciousness or it is like a break only after which a devotee will start exactly from there where he left off."
Visakha-devi dasi says, " Even if a devotee peer falls down-and in this difficult age, falldowns along the spiritual path can easily happen-still one can think, "Given the temptations that that person faced, how much better would I have fared?" And one can be confident that a devotee is never forsaken by the Lord. As Srila Prabhupada explains, "Even though he falls down, a devotee is never to be considered the same as a fallen karmi (fruitive worker). A karmi suffers the result of his own fruitive reactions, whereas a devotee is reformed by chastisement directed by the Lord Himself" (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.19, purport). If the Lord doesn't leave His friend, why should we? Best to be strict with oneself, following Krsna's instructions, and patient with others, knowing that they're in Krsna's all-competent hands."
Thanks krsnaraja melvin prabu,
Is there any stage in spiritual life where a devotee is completely ensured that he will not fall down at all.
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
THis question is very often asked in CHennai and HH Bhanu Swamy Maharaj replies that upto Bhava stage, one may fall down - eg - Bharat Maharaj developed attachment for deer. Only in Prema stage, there is no fear of falldown. Srimati Radharani is in prema.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Thanks prabhu ,
My question is whether a downfall affects our previous spiritual progress in Krishna Consciousness or it is like a break only after which a devotee will start exactly from there where he left off((or where he was before downfall) .
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
The answer is in the Bhagawad Gita - if one is unable to complete his spiritual perfection in one birth, he takes birth again in an aristocratic or pious family and is given a chance to continue from where he left in the previous birth.
What is a downfall? Its maya taking over the senses and one is unable to control the urges of the tongue, belly or genitals.
The point is that the soul gets a chance to continue from where he left in the previous birth. It does not garauntee that the soul will continue. It is always a choice. Like it is mentioned in the Gita - sucinam srimatam gehe, yoga bhrashto'bhi jayate - such a soul is reborn in an aristocratic or pious family. How many such people in today's world do you see going towards spiritual progress?
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
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