Hare Krishna to all of you,I have a query.Please solve it. is it possible that after going to vaikuntha fall down because there are some incidents in scriptures like gate keepers of Lord Jay Vijay, Sridama's curse to radha rani. Is there also falso ego with us.
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Here is my realization. That demons/lilas Krishna slayed/played were just the Lord`s imagination that came true. Fortunately, the Lord had options if these became tupsy turvy. Likewise, as part and parcel of Krishna, whenever we imagine things/demons/plays that suddenly came true. We must have contingency plans in case they become messy.
Have we ever wondered from the day we were born and from the day we started living that maybe we are all just Krishna`s fantasy/creativity?
In the Third Canto Srimad-Bhagavatam, in the history of Jaya and Vijaya, Pariksit Maharaja asks Sukadeva Gosvami, "How is it possible that Jaya and Vijaya could have fallen down from that realm? I don't believe it." Any pure devotee willnot believe it. Srila Prabhupada writes in the purport of the Seventh Canto, Chapter 1 (Text 35),"Therefore it is to be understood that when Jaya and Vijaya descended to this material world, they came because there was something to be done for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha." Jaya and Vijaya had a desire to please the Lord. All the associates of the Lord have only one desire: to give Him pleasure.Lord Narayana has a desire to enjoy vira-rasa, the mood or humor of chivalry. But who will He fight with in Vaikuntha? Everyone there worships Him in awe and reverence. Jaya and Vijaya were desiring, "We should do something to fulfill this desire." Then, knowing that they had that desire to please Him, Lord Narayana called on Yogamaya to arrange for the four Kumaras to come and for the gatekeepers Jaya and Vijaya to be cursed to come to the material world as demons. Actually, they never camehere and became demons. Only a part of them manifested in this world in order to give the Lord pleasure.
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its all arrangement of lord and his devotees..instead of thinking any other speculative meanings we should think that because of their arrangement, lord descended in this material world n did many many actually n numbers of lilas which gives us peace,liberation,bhakti by hearing,thinking of his beautiful pastimes.
Ohhhhhh I am so sorry. You are right. I might have been speculating. Sorry to bother you. Anyway all the best. Thanks for making me realize my shortcomings.
Sridama getting curse is all arrangements of krishna..we should not think anything wrong or any hidden msgs in it.anyway this curse thing is not only single cause for radha n krishna's incarnation on earth. krishna is swayam rupa and radha is his lhadini shakti.so when krishna appeares as lila avatara or in his swayam rupa radharani also comes with him. also the curse of four kumaras is not the only thing for jaya and vijaya's falldown from spiritual world..there is a another n big story behind jaya and vijaya's falldown. i dont know the exact source of this story but i heard a story that they were madhu kaitabha in their previous life.
Hare Krishna to all,
I got very nice answers yet I am not fully satisfied. The word 'fall down' I used did not mean, 'fall down from spiritual world to the material world'. It simply means 'fall down from our constitutional position'. Do we have false ego there.
In one answer which is generally the same answered by all devotees whom I asked the question. They says :
" Lord took one of His associates like Jay and Vijay along with Him in His Lila. They didn't fall down but we're coordinating with the Lord in His lilas.
Sridhama's curse was also all arranged by the Lord. Lord whenever personally visits this world, doesn't come alone but brings His closest associates with Him."
I am not agree with this.I want to say that:
1. "Lord took one of His associates like Jay and Vijay along with Him in His Lila". To become demon is not as easy as it seems.It means that we lost all our spiritual qualities.To become demon is a most degraded position. As we read in bhagwad geeta , Krishna tells that He makes demon to them who are envious to Him and very degraded persons. God always want to glorify His devotees and to make them happy. Were Jay-Vijay glorified by becoming demons? Do we respect "demons like Hiranyakashipu or Ravana , Kamsa etc" as much as to devotees. Were they happy by becoming demon. A demon envious of God can never be happy at all.
What was the basic reason behind the downfall of jay-Vijay? Did they not know Lord (even being His personal associates) or they had pride (false ego) of being His personal assocsiate).
2. "Sridhama's curse was also all arranged by the Lord". How it is possible because "Lord whenever personally visits this world, doesn't come alone but brings His closest associates with Him". So there is no need of curse for this otherwise "Lord whenever personally visits this world", He has to arrange a curse or "He will come alone".
The curse is not given without mistake therefore either Sridhama (by cursing) or Radha (to be cursed) did wrong. And it is only possible when we do something for our own sense gratification (inspired by the mind) not for Krishna. Is it there in Golok, where it is said everything is Krishna-centric. I aslo want to remind that Sridhama (from Golok) became a demon.
If only pure devotees are there, is it possible in Vaikutha that we have some thought of our own sense gratification or is there any chance that even in vaikuth we may become impure
Just have a humble query.
I read that we were earlier not in Vaikuntha but in between material and spiritual world's. That's why we are known as marginal energy of Krsna.
We, since have free will got enamored of the wrong place that's material world and landed up here.
So from here if we go to Spiritual world, we are not gonna fall down, unless Krsna arranges for it specially.
Please correct me if it's wrong and would like to know what's right.
Anybody who chants sincerely Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare never fall from the spiritual sky. Krishna will catch him as He promised.
Generally,It is told that we have fallen from the spiritual world because we became envious of krishna or say we wanted to enjoy separately ,and srila prabhupada said the same in his morning walks,conversations and letters. But that is not the only position he took. We are often perplexed that what is the guarantee that we won't fall from the spiritual world again? Let's see :
1st : krishna himself gives the guarantee that we will never return here if we go there once.
2nd. There is experimentation and rectification. We wanted to experience,to enjoy separately from krishna but in this world we have experienced that we can't really do that. Then we have rectification. That means knowing that we can't enjoy unless we become the enjoyed,so we rectify our mistake and try to go back to Godhead and when we go there,we know that this place is not good,so we'll never desire to enioy again separately. Just like one man goes into a quagmire,he has experienced it so he will never again willingly go into it again.
Replies
Hare Krishna,
Here is my realization. That demons/lilas Krishna slayed/played were just the Lord`s imagination that came true. Fortunately, the Lord had options if these became tupsy turvy. Likewise, as part and parcel of Krishna, whenever we imagine things/demons/plays that suddenly came true. We must have contingency plans in case they become messy.
Have we ever wondered from the day we were born and from the day we started living that maybe we are all just Krishna`s fantasy/creativity?
Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya
krsnaraja melvin
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its all arrangement of lord and his devotees..instead of thinking any other speculative meanings we should think that because of their arrangement, lord descended in this material world n did many many actually n numbers of lilas which gives us peace,liberation,bhakti by hearing,thinking of his beautiful pastimes.
Jay Srila Prabhupada !!
Hare Krishna !!
Thanks
I got very nice answers yet I am not fully satisfied. The word 'fall down' I used did not mean, 'fall down from spiritual world to the material world'. It simply means 'fall down from our constitutional position'. Do we have false ego there.
In one answer which is generally the same answered by all devotees whom I asked the question. They says :
" Lord took one of His associates like Jay and Vijay along with Him in His Lila. They didn't fall down but we're coordinating with the Lord in His lilas.
Sridhama's curse was also all arranged by the Lord. Lord whenever personally visits this world, doesn't come alone but brings His closest associates with Him."
I am not agree with this.I want to say that:
1. "Lord took one of His associates like Jay and Vijay along with Him in His Lila". To become demon is not as easy as it seems.It means that we lost all our spiritual qualities.To become demon is a most degraded position. As we read in bhagwad geeta , Krishna tells that He makes demon to them who are envious to Him and very degraded persons. God always want to glorify His devotees and to make them happy. Were Jay-Vijay glorified by becoming demons? Do we respect "demons like Hiranyakashipu or Ravana , Kamsa etc" as much as to devotees. Were they happy by becoming demon. A demon envious of God can never be happy at all.
What was the basic reason behind the downfall of jay-Vijay? Did they not know Lord (even being His personal associates) or they had pride (false ego) of being His personal assocsiate).
2. "Sridhama's curse was also all arranged by the Lord". How it is possible because "Lord whenever personally visits this world, doesn't come alone but brings His closest associates with Him". So there is no need of curse for this otherwise "Lord whenever personally visits this world", He has to arrange a curse or "He will come alone".
The curse is not given without mistake therefore either Sridhama (by cursing) or Radha (to be cursed) did wrong. And it is only possible when we do something for our own sense gratification (inspired by the mind) not for Krishna. Is it there in Golok, where it is said everything is Krishna-centric. I aslo want to remind that Sridhama (from Golok) became a demon.
If only pure devotees are there, is it possible in Vaikutha that we have some thought of our own sense gratification or is there any chance that even in vaikuth we may become impure
Just have a humble query.
I read that we were earlier not in Vaikuntha but in between material and spiritual world's. That's why we are known as marginal energy of Krsna.
We, since have free will got enamored of the wrong place that's material world and landed up here.
So from here if we go to Spiritual world, we are not gonna fall down, unless Krsna arranges for it specially.
Please correct me if it's wrong and would like to know what's right.
Thanks
Anybody who chants sincerely Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare never fall from the spiritual sky. Krishna will catch him as He promised.
Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya
krsnaraja melvin
Duality such as down or up doesnt exist in transcendentality.
Wherever pure devotee is, the Lord is there, and there where is the Lord, there is all spiritual world to.
1st : krishna himself gives the guarantee that we will never return here if we go there once.
2nd. There is experimentation and rectification. We wanted to experience,to enjoy separately from krishna but in this world we have experienced that we can't really do that. Then we have rectification. That means knowing that we can't enjoy unless we become the enjoyed,so we rectify our mistake and try to go back to Godhead and when we go there,we know that this place is not good,so we'll never desire to enioy again separately. Just like one man goes into a quagmire,he has experienced it so he will never again willingly go into it again.
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