Hare Krishna. Dandvat Pranam.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaishnavas.
I want to understand:
1)How souls came into existence? if we are eternal then there is no question of coming into existence at some point of time anywhere whether in spiritual world or material world.
2) what is the meaning when Krishna says "There was not a time when You(Soul) and I didn't exist and there will be no time when you will and I will not exist" If at some point of Time we(souls) came out of body of Krishna.(as everything comes from him and he is source of everything).
3) Does Krishna keeps on creating new souls and merging souls again unto him like he does with Material Universe.
These three questions I am asking because this is general conception of mayavadis that God didn't create us and Prakriti. God, Soul and Prakriti are eternal known as trinity and God just manages the other two. He agitates Prakriti and create this world to bring soul in action because souls have a property to be active. Thus by creating this material world he gives souls chance to be active and enjoy or suffer as per there Karma.
I know from knowledge bestowed by Srila Prabhupada through his books, conversations and recordings etc. that how we fall down from Spiritual sky and that we are expansion of Krishna's Marginal energy but if any devotee of Lord can guide me better to give then good answer then I shall be thankful.
Servant of Servant of Servant of Krishna
Replies
dear Kamlesh Patel Prabhu, what do You mean by saying souls are manifest in bodies?
They can be there even without this material body.
The answer should be simple for understanding, we are not great scholars of Sanskrit and Vedas but just simple people.
Your servant in serving to Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krishna.
Please help us understand why the soul should wish to return to the spiritual world, when it might return back to the material world again? I mean isn't this another cycle, just like life-death in this material world?
Once a soul moves to the highest planet, it enjoys there bliss eternally. There is no such thing as coming back from Goloka. Please study
http://sadhanahispano.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/339340_2472394186...
yas saurabh
Hare Krishna, Saurabh. I knew about Goloka. However, that does not answer my question it only moves the problem a step further. Why do only some souls go to Goloka? Why didn't he put all his marginal energies in Goloka to begin with? How can Krishna discriminate between souls in the spiritual world (who haven't entered the material world) who love him and souls in Goloka who love him very very much? He is all loving and can not discriminate between his children. Can someone please explain this problem?The Upanishads do not mention Goloka and a lot of people engage in endless debates about it.
H
mouth sorry
Hare Krsna p
most humble obeisances
There are some things which are inconceivable..
I hope you know about this symbol " infinity" . We can never understand what it is.. Similarly, we can never understand at what point we came in material world and so on. But it is sure that we were there eternally and we will be there eternally. Also we were originally in spiritual world and becuz of wrong desire we have fallen down but we will go back for sure... It is not that we were eternally in material world.. No offenses meant to anyone.. Please forgive me if my words hurt anyone...
New souls are not created..There are unlimited souls in the spiritual world(again inconceivable) and they keep on falling down and going back...
your servant
rakesh roshan
Hare Krishna Prabhuji. Dandavat Pranam. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
BG 2.12: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
The above verse explains , it is not that the souls are created at some point of a time of creation. The souls always existed along with the supersoul Krishna as his part and parcel . Just like
"Sunlight exists along with Sun as a part of sun"
"Spark exists along with fire as a part of it"
"Heat exists along with fire as an attribute of fire"
Similarly each soul (Brahman) exists along with their leader (para-Brahman) krishna. And to confirm that Krishna again says
BG 2.20: For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.
Soul is birthless, hence there is nothing as such Creation of soul. Again he go on saying He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. Here the three words unborn, eternal and ever-existing makes it very clear that the soul has no birth, so it is not created thats why it is eternal and ever-existing , just like heat always exists with fire , fragrance always exists with flower.
Again the same thing i.e. nature of the soul (unborn, eternal, indestructable , ever-existing ) krishna emphasizing again and again in further verses. In Vedic literature on some context is given much importance to make audience understand it repeats the context again and again to make it clear and confirm.
BG 2.21: O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?
BG 2.24: This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.
Thus it confirms in this way that Soul is never created , it always existed along with krishna as his energy. So krishna is not creating soul, the number of soul is fixed.
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Regarding mayavada theory of soul, they believe in homogenous one soul concept, according to them there is one soul exists only, when some portion of that soul entrapped by maya or illusion then it becomes baddha brahman or trapped Ishwara. They give example
" entrapped living entity is like some portion of ether consists in a pot if we keep the pot in sky, when the pot breaks the ether again merge in the sky.
"another example they give that when a drop of water (brahman) merges in the total ocean water (para-brahman) , then it again becomes para-brahman"
But Bg refutes it very clearly by saying, that individuality always exists, thats whay Krishna gave importance on all the above mentioned verses regarding individuality of soul. It is not that it merges, then there is no value of liberation.
And soul can't be cut into pieces, then how come a homogeneous soul can be cut into individual souls
BG 2.23: The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.
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Hope this will help
your aspiring servnat
Hari Bol
Hare Krishna, Dandvat Pranam.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada and all the Vaishnavas.
Lord Krishna says in Gita Chapter 8 Text 15
mam upetya punar janma
duhkhalayam ashashvatam
napnuvanti mahatmanah
samsiddhim paramam gatah
Purport :"After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection."
At all the times there are Souls who return back to Godhead. if no one return back to temporary world after going back to Krishna's Abode and if number of souls are fixed then one day there will be no soul left for which Krishna will require to create material world. Even if we say there is a tendency to fall down because of misuse of minute free will, but if any soul falls down then that will be contradictory to above Sloka. Please clear my understanding because I think there is much deeper meaning in this which I am not able to understand.
Servant of Servant of Servant of Krishna
There are not finite number of souls. The concept of infinity even in Mathematics which is based on certain axioms is different that of finite. From an infinite set even after taking out an infinite set what may be ieft is another infinite set . There are infinite sets of different cardinality which in a layman's language may be understood as infinities of higher order.Here what we are talking about is Lord Krishna and His marginal potency. That of course is beyond any Mathematical imagination.Here we are talking about the infinite potency with whom no other infinite is equal or greater.Number of souls are fixed should not be understood as a fixed finite number .
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